Divorce, kids and crossdressing

[Mrs. X (gg)]

Hello:

I decided to post seeking other ppl experiences regarding divorce proceedings, kids and crossdressing.

A couple of weeks ago in a court session in Tennessee which BF was represented by his lawyer but he wasn't actually present, his soon to be ex told the female judge all about his crossdressing, the lawyer objected and asked her for proof of her claim and although she clearly admitted she didn't have any evidence at all, the judge ruled his visitation rights were cut off to 0days, in other words he's not allowed to see his kids and this broke his heart. In order to be considered to re-establish them he has to go infront of the judge in a future court date to explain his "unfit" behavior. :Angry3:

Thinking we don't have the best lawyer for his case, in two separate approaches seeking a second opinion, as soon as the crossdressing issue comes up the lawyers tend to be unfriendly toward the whole thing and are not interested. Apparently we are working with a very conservative County, I haven't found yet a transgender friendly attorney.

BF was already dealing with parental alienation and now she has the law in her side. He adores those kids, he's a great dad, I don't see how this is in the best interest of the children.

I will appreciate any thoughts...

[tricia_uktv]

Ouch, ouch, ouch. But I think (s)he has to go court. My kids are more imprtant to me than my cd-ing and I would do everything in power to retain access to them.

I also am absolutely sure he's a brilliant Dad.

I so much wish her luck! But she so much needs to retain the access to her children. I know she will make them grow.

[Joan Merrie]

That's just sad. But unfortunately welcome to the south, I take it it wasn't in a big city like Nashville or Knoxville.

[Tamara Croft]

Just google transgender friendly lawyers in your state, I'm sure a few will pop up. What the ex wife did was disgraceful, playing that kind of game, what a cow :Angry3:

[shesadvl]

reminds me of when I first came on to this forum to see another GG use that line of play in divorce proceedings...

also knowing...that my partner's ex wife did something similar but must of fell on deaf ears as no one has asked him, or even me....but if we were both asked.... the honest answers would be given.....

but like Tamara said mrs X gg, there has to be some lawyers that can see pastthe crossdressing and to what this woman has done... to score points....

wish you both luck in finding a "JUST" end for everyone that can be a horrible LEGAL battle and costly in all ways....

thats a side of "some" women oi hate...

[karennjcd]

My ex had found out when I told her and CD in front of her a few times. Naturally when the visitation and custody topics came up in court, she and her lawyer tried to play that card.... despite the obvious proof my side had that she was and still is an unfit mother.

As far as my ex knew, I never CD'ed outside the bedroom. And are one's bedroom activities admissable in court when a case involving visitation and custody is being heard? No way.

The courts in my state, and I've found out in many states surrounding mine, will side in favor of the mother regardless of the proof against the mom .... ( yeah she carried the child, but still.... ) In a sense it's a detriment to own a penis. :rolleyes:

To this day I've never CD'ed in front of my kid, and still won't. In the end my ex had one of many psychotic breakdowns and I've had custody ever since.


Karen

[Laurie A]

It sounds like he may need a better lawyer, maybe one who is familiar with that particular judge. I wish him the best of luck, this is a horrible situation.

Worse yet is having to deal with parental alienation, this can cause more long term heartache and stress if it is allowed to continue. I would suggest finding a lawyer who is familiar with this issue as well. My experience is that most judges don't want to directly deal with it and will turn it over to a social worker to make a recommendation as to the suitabilty of each party regarding visitation and custody. If the social worker comes to the table with an preconceptions regarding crossdressing then it will be all the more difficult to resolve this equitably.

It may be along shot, but if both parties could seek some mutual counseling with the goal to make the divorce as easy as possible on the kids, everyone would be better off in the long run.

[Mrs. X (gg)]

Thank you for your support and advice.

BF tried to seek counseling or mediation to make things easier and faster and she denied, she just wants to "rip the hell out of him" her own words. So far, she is winning

The case is not being held in a big city so to have a transgender friendly lawyer who specializes in dad's divorce is to travel 2.5 hours from perhaps Nashville and will costs us travel costs of $2,000 (hourly rate of $250.00) in addition to the retainer fee of $2,500 and BF's travel and lodging expenses since we don't live in TN. Yeah...I've been making my homework :brolleyes:

Ironic in this case is that BF is the plaintiff and the grounds is adultery form her part, she had a baby from another man. The only thing the judge said about that was the she acknowledge the baby wasn't his...everything else has turned against BF. She was awarded with $100 a wk for alimony plus increase in the child support which is already over $1000 for their two kids. BF also has to fill a questionair with 50 q's between his cding and his relationship with me.

Obviously he has a useless lawyer...my fear is that we might get stuck with him if I don't get a hold of someone better who wants our case soon.

[Plasibeau]

I find it completely disgusting that this can be so petty! Those children are lucky enough as it is to have a father who is fighting to be in their lives and all she can do is be vengefull because she got caught having an affair. Women like this make me sick to my stomach and I wish deep, dark, ill will upon any who would do this to a dedicated father.

You let that strong, upstanding, proud father know that he has an army of people chearing on his behalf.

[Mrs. X (gg)]

Thank you Plasibeau.

Yes its unbelievable and absurd any mother put her agenda before her own children needs. I still can't figure how can there be women like this with so much hate in their hearts they can't even see how the little ones are suffering.

Both parents have the right to be in their kids life and to deny this right it's far beyond comprehension and it screams how deficient and awful is the law here in the US...it doesn't necessarily mean justice for all.

BF didn't crossdress infront of his kids, they knew because the adults constantly argue about it and their mom tells everyone she knows to embarrass him. He didn't even do it that regularly to avoid the discussion and the drama.

The thing is that his first response was to deny it to his current lawyer when the subject first came up, he got afraid of the consequences and to be judged, I know bad decision . But the lawyers reaction was of relief because if it "was true" he wouldn't know how to approach a case like this anyway. BF now is standing by his answer at least to this lawyer, but in reality it complicated things...hard to turn back.

In my search for a new lawyer and Ive been presenting the subject as this was a intimate matrimonial venture that she too willingly participated so she has no right to use it against him now. Which in a sense is true. But clearly this justification is not enough to some ppl.

We don't know what else to do...should he go in and deny it to the core? She doesn't have proof anyway... or Should he change his version to his lawyer and say the truth? Im not sure of the outcome in that one, the lawyer obviously not to fond about it.

To be able to relate to his kids is the ultimate goal we won't give up...but what good will it be if to have them means to be supervised by a total stranger that might define any manifestation of affection of his part unacceptable or inappropriate...just because he's a crossdresser.

This is so freaking hard even to write...

[sterling12]

You need a really good lawyer! You need The LGBT Community on your side! Get to Nashville right quick, contact The ACLU, or contact any number of agencies and services for The LGBT Community in that city.

My guess is that they won't let this "case" go on like this. There is abundant case law that a competent lawyer could site that clearly shows rulings that would stop all of this nonsense!

The spouse has to "PROVE" that The crossdressing has a detrimental effect on the children. Let's "put the shoe on the other foot," If his ex-wife was sleeping with a Motorcycle Gang, he would still have to PROVE that her conduct was detrimental to the children's well being. And that is a very hard thing to do! Questionnaires, being transgendered, and all this other stuff are not germaine, not unless the other lawyer can prove they are.

Judges can act capricious and crazy, they control about everything in their own courts and are subject only to review in Appellate. Find a lawyer familiar with transgendered issues, and if The Judge is adamant, that lawyer can at least request a new judge.

Unless he wants to get "railroaded," never wants to see his kids, pays through the nose, better find a new attorney, and do it damn quick!

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Starr]

Try this group http://www.tnep.org/ they are working on changing laws in Tennessee and they might be able to steer you to lawers who can help.

star

[Ediosa]

You know what I say, use the case against her. Try to find a ACLU lawyer and state that it's a gender issue. I'm sure they will be more then happy to take up a case about CDing, when it's not even his fault. It's basically discrimination. Or, use the power of the public. I"m sure he doesn't want his name shown to the public, but write about it in the newspaper, or news channel, or even a TV show. Say how he's being screw, when it was her who cheated, and he's being screwed over CDing. I'm sure the judge or her will back down. Make her be the cow she is in front of the world. If she wants to be a shit, then treat her like shit in front of the world. My saying.


Elizabeth

[Speck]

I find your BFs circumstances very sad. I'm a genetic woman who just went through a separation and have joint custody with my ex. It's not perfect but I think sole custody should be reserved for exceptional circumstances.

While we don't think crossdressing is a reason to keep children away from a parent, there are obviously lots that do.

Since the ex-wife is already making the crossdressing very public, why not take this opportunity to educate the children and everyone else involved? Use the media. Rather than deny anything, discuss what being transgendered is all about.

I don't know enough about your legal system to offer suggestions but there must be government agencies that might get involved to fight discrimination.

Wish I could help.

[Mrs. X (gg)]

We cant consider the media as an option, he works for the military they have the rule don't ask don't tell and he can actually get fired if they knew. I mean she already has called his sargeants to tell all about it but they ignored her since he has an impeccable behavior record.

As for the Nashville lawyers... I did make an approach to an LGTB friendly law firm but he would had to charge us $2,000 just for travel time everytime he appeared in court since is a 2.5 hour drive to Maury County at $250 hourly rate, this in addition of the retainer fee and my BF travel expenses, we don't live in TN. Is a lot of money we can't afford. He even mentioned this might take at least 4 or 5 visits to the court...add all that up

He couldnt recommend any other lawyer in the area specialized, he basically told us to approach as many lawyers as we can in that specific County to see who has the better legal strategy...but two already didn't want our case.

We even don't mind to pay whatever she wants as far as he can be with his kids and get this over with. But this is beyond the money issue, she really wants to burn him in every possible way.

Yeah...bad things do happen to good people and it sucks!!!

[Melanie R]

He needs an attorney who is educated on what it means to be a crossdresser and is not afraid to take on a conservative judge. In 1979 my deceased ex-wife attempted to get a divorce from her "sick depraved crossdressing husband" and asked the judge to deny me child visitation. The hearing took place in a Southeast Texas country courtroom. My attorney who had won two cases before the US Supreme Court was very accepting of my crossdressing and told the judge that he would trust me to care for his own young children. The hearing lasted less than an hour and in the end the divorce was granted and I was awarded equal custody of the children. Of course 1979 was before the push of right wingers who condemn anyone who does not fit their two boxes. I lived in central Tennessee for 3 years in my position as CEO of a large mental health care organization. I know how the ultra right judges in Tennessee write their own laws for everyone to follow.

[sheidelmeidel]

I agree with latindancer. I often don't like the ACLU but I think this can definitely be called "discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation" or something like that - the right lawyer will know what it is. Men get screwed over enough in divorce courts when they dress as men. They should not get screwed over more when they dress as women!

[michelle_tx]

Just because the first Nashville lawyer is too much, don't give up hope! It's a big city and there are no doubt more. As others said, talk to the ACLU as well. Just don't give up because the first one didn't work out. Ask enough times and you might find one who will work pro bono. Also, you mention that he doesn't mind paying her whatever she wants if it means he gets to see his children. A bit of money now for a good lawyer might be a better investment in the long run. It sounds like right now he's going to get soaked for money and not get to see the kids. A good lawyer might help both those.

[docrobbysherry]

I've been in divorce court, (it took 8 years to settle everything), and in many other courts, as plaintiff AND defendant.

The best defense in court, is a GOOD OFFENSE! I can't believe your BF skipped the court hearing! The combination of that, plus having a poor, (and possibly unprepared), attorney, may have cooked his goose before the presiding judge!

Did he tell his attorney that the ex would probably bring up his CDing? If so, did they prepare an effective defense when she did? I can think of LOTS of things that mite refute her testimony, and discredit her as well!

Remember, THE LAW has NOTHING to do with FAIRNESS! It's who's story is BETTER! From what I've seen, fabrications in court r the RULE, NOT the exception!

During my divorce, if my ex had brought up my CDing, she knew, in advance, the dirt I would dump on her! She didn't, I didn't! Even tho my attorney wanted to!

I don't think u need a "gender sensitive" attorney. U need a REALLY GOOD, EXPERIENCED attorney! He/she will come up with points that could convince a judge to see your side of things!
Unfortunately, the best legal minds COST! How much r your BF's kids worth? U 2 must decide! And FAST!

[Crysten]

Well, since there's aparently no proof, I'd completely deny the whole thing. Purge all female clothes if necesaary, and lie till I was blue in the face. Get up in court and tell the judge it's a total fabrication so she can get custody of the children.

He said, she said, and appealable if found against him.

No proof is no proof. Period.

Hooray for American Justice.

BTW, falling in love with psychotic women just because they SLIGHTLY TOLERATE (or appear to tolerate) our dressing is a bad idea.

As I'm sure many of you know.

[sheidelmeidel]

lie till I was blue in the face

Crysten, I think you're right in theory, but it's not a good idea to lie in court unless you have a good lawyer that will teach you how to be a good liar.

[Joanne f]

Has your lawyer argued the point that cross dressing is not actually a moral or social crime but adultery is , and if she has a child with another man that has a greater effect on the morals of there other children than what type of clothes someone likes to wear .

[ReineD]

Remember, THE LAW has NOTHING to do with FAIRNESS! It's who's story is BETTER! From what I've seen, fabrications in court r the RULE, NOT the exception!

And this is precisely my experience. I won't go into the details here other than to say in my case, the ex knew how to play the game better. He has the money, he was dishonest, ruthless, and he won custody. I learned too late. It also didn't hurt that his attorney and the Judge are friends.

I do have a thought. It is my understanding that when individuals, and I am guessing they are mostly women, file Orders of Protection, the law doesn't take much time to deliberate just in case there is a real danger. The accused is immediately barred from having any contact, until he can prove that he is not a threat. In principle this makes sense because it errs on the side of caution. Compare this to someone being falsely arrested. It would be best to cooperate and later on prove that the arrest was false.

So now BF just needs to show up in front of the judge and prove that he is not a threat to the kids. The Judges' priority is the children's welfare, not what goes on behind your bedroom door. BF doesn't need to contradict himself to his attorney, and the attorney should know what ammunition the ex is likely to use. But if, for the purposes of the custody hearing, BF treats the CDing as being part of his private, intimate life with a consenting adult, then how can the Judge take it as negatively impacting the children? This also would not be a lie as concerns the children, since BF has not CDed in front of them. It should be made clear to the Judge that neither BF and the ex, nor BF and you, ever engaged in intimate adult behaviors in front of the children. Does this make sense?

It appears as if, in order to get custody, the ex wants to use what happens behind closed doors and twist it into a behavior that will hurt the kids. Seems to me that such blatant lies should reflect negatively on her. She is obviously not thinking of the kids' best interests if she wants to deprive them of one of their parents.

[PaulaJaneThomas]

In England and Wales, the court is advised by professionals from the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service who are directly accountable to the Lord Chancellor. If the parents cannot come to an agreement about child access prior to the court appearance then the CFCASS will interview both parents and the children and make their recommendation based on what they believe is the children's best interests and also taking into account the children's own wishes. It's possible that a judge might ban the father from having any contact with the children but the children themselves would have to be adamant that that is what they want.

[Mrs. X (gg)]

I agree docrobbysherry to skip court was just wrong, although we didn't have much control over this. Lawyer told BF on Friday afternoon court date was on Monday morning and he clearly say that his presence was not necessary. What a bright idea he had most likely this single act rubbed the judge in the wrong way. The cding thing was the cherry on the top.

We are expecting a consultation of a female lawyer who is reviewing our docs for about three days now. I called her yesterday and her assistant said she was still on the papers she would get back to us soon. This might be a light in the tunnel. I haven't hear her yet so Im eager to find out her POV. There is something in female lawyers that make them fierce...my fingers are cross.

He also has like 50 questions about the cding and his relationship with me. How do we approach this q's????????

Well I guess the cding ones will depend on our approach to the case...but they're also asking the exact circumstances of how we met, when where and how many times we first have sex, how many gifts he has given me and the costs, cel numbers he use to contact me, internet providers he use for his emails with me, type of computer he uses, do we webcam, facebook and myspace accounts, he has to submit every pic he has of us, how did he afford my engagement ring, places we traveled together.....

Im thinking just to answer....NO to everything. How in earth they going to prove us otherwise?????

I appreciate your thoughts.....