Most common reason for failing to pass

[vetobob9]

I was told at younger age that I walked like a girl by a lot of people. So i've been conscience about how I walk ever since. I've consciously had to make an effort to walk the way my gender walks.

The main thing I would have to deal with, if I tried going out enfemme, is the beard stubble. Which is why I don't.
Though, when I was in the army, I was told that someone found an internet picture of me in a dress. Not possible of course since I never wore one around other people.

Even when dressed as my own gender, I've been embarrassed a couple of times when one of my nephews kept referring to me as a she because I used to be really thin.

I think if I went out (enfemme or en femme?) I would probably have no problem passing. Only GG's would probably be able to tell, and a few genetic guys who would then call it to the attention of their lady friends for some odd reason.

[NoraTV]

There are really two questions here:

1. Do you want to express who you really are?

2. Or do you want to pass?

Both of these questions are honest. I dress to express who I really am. I can pass (although I have actually been mistaken for a WNBA player) although, to be truthful, I am amazed (or maybe people are just being polite).

I think that the most important thing is to present yourself with confidence and poise. Those giggling girls that Laura mentioned were too stupid to realize what a great compliment that Laura was giving them by the way that she presented herself to the world. They would probably also giggle at somebody wearing "last year's" lipstick color.

Hang in there, ladies,

[Lorileah]

In my case the main reason I don't pass?...I don't try very hard.

6'3" in heels shoulders like a cornerback,no butt, no hips, lotta waist. Yet....I pass better than most the "girls" in this town

[kellycan27]

There are really two questions here:

1. Do you want to express who you really are?

2. Or do you want to pass?

Both of these questions are honest. I dress to express who I really am. I can pass (although I have actually been mistaken for a WNBA player) although, to be truthful, I am amazed (or maybe people are just being polite).

I think that the most important thing is to present yourself with confidence and poise. Those giggling girls that Laura mentioned were too stupid to realize what a great compliment that Laura was giving them by the way that she presented herself to the world. They would probably also giggle at somebody wearing "last year's" lipstick color.

Hang in there, ladies,

Actually the OP wasn't about the importance of passing or not, it was in regards to that which prevents passing.

[Sarah Doepner]

I have the big hands, I'm too tall with broad shoulders, I've a brow ridge most Neanderthals would respect and a pretty strong chin. My voice needs work, I need to lose weight and I move more like a great ape than a girl. On top of that I'm not even attractive as a man. I don't pass and even with the best makeup, hair, age and situationally appropriate selection of clothing, a nice walk and a smile, I will be seen for what I am, not what I'm attempting to look like.

However, if I do all these things sometimes I can "pass by" before they realize what they have seen. I just need puzzled looks in front of me and the giggles behind me. We have to make a choice and pick an achievable goal if we want to go out in public dressed en femme. If I decided I was going to pass or not be satisfied with the experience, I would never be happy out of the house. I do the best I can and pick a goal that I can achieve and maybe I can raise the bar just a little with each experience. Someday maybe I'll have blank stares in front of me and the puzzled looks behind me. That would work.

[Annie D]

What exactly would change? I would still be the same height, have the same hands and feet and unless I had facial plastic surgery, I would look the same. I probably would be taking hormones and my skin and hair would become more feminine. The difference, in my mind, would be "in my mind". Breasts and new plumbing would make me physically feminine and then I wouldn't have to get past feeling whether I passed or not because if I wanted to do the normal things that every other human does; work, shop, meet people, etc., I would just do it and not care. My presentation as a women would be exactly the same as my female presentation as a crossdresser.

Do whatever you can to make your appearance more feminine but in order to "pass" you need to accept yourself.

[nikkijo]

You can tuck, bind, push, tape, use forms but a male face is a male face. Even with make up on it is hard to change. Especially the profile.

then someone needs more practice with hair and make up...

In my case the main reason I don't pass?...I don't try very hard.

6'3" in heels shoulders like a cornerback,no butt, no hips, lotta waist. Yet....I pass better than most the "girls" in this town

this time of year everyone in colorado looks like a puffball anyway... so how could you not pass....lol

[Dr.Susan]

then someone needs more practice with hair and make up...

Even with perfect make-up you can't change the physical traits of a man's head and as I said before the profile is usually a dead giveaway. Why do you think there are so few profile pictures in the photography section?

[Christina Horton]

Confidence , as most has said is key. The way I look at it is this.

I can't dance.... What does that have to do with "Being a women" . I have been told to , when I dance ( in drab or dressed ) is to let the music flow through you and let " it " move you.

Well I see going out as a women as letting the ( women ) inside me out and let her flow through me and move me. When I am home and no one is there I just let my girly side just be free ( I live alone ) so aside from not sitting down to pee I am fem all the time. My hands the way I walk my voice does it to.

Passing. Yes I know some people think it's a bad word. I think it's a fine word and I also think you all should just let your male selfs go and FEEL the women inside you and give yourself to her.

When you can do that your passing will be no concern and you will just have fun being who you are inside. Once you do that you will look more like a girl then your more male features will allow you to.

Of course that's just my :2c: worth. It may not work for you but does for me.

You see I AM one with wide shoulders , plus side at 260 at 5'10. But for me I think being plus size helps cuz it rounds of my fetures and "fems" them down a little I think. I don't know cuz I have been big most of my adult life so I don't know.

I hope this helped you.

[Mandy Burgundy]

I know I may never pass, cause of my ridiculously chiseled male model appearance (insert Zoolander reference here lol), (plus I have voice like Issac Hayes), but that doesn't stop the admirers from approaching me, sometimes flirting, which makes me feel good about myself. Its all about presenting yourself the best you can.

[Super Amanda]

Since most people here are answering like the OP is asking "What doe's it take to pass?" I shall attempt to ACTUALLY answer the question, which is : "Most common reason for failing to pass"


From my own experience, I think bad wigs are most likely the number one give away. If someone has a really cheap looking Halloween wig on, it will be obvious from a mile away.

A very close number two is the old beard shadow, my personal worst enemy.

HOWEVER...Just one of these things alone wont cause failure, IMO, but rather a combination of all of the cardinal sins of crossdressing, like wayyyy too much makeup in loud colors, inappropriate attire for the situation, bad wig and manly gestures.

I'm six foot tall, wear women's size 12(shoes, and rings!) and weigh 240 lbs...I can go unnoticed in busy super markets and most public situations(so far!). I don't like to say I "pass" when I go unnoticed, because something about the word feels wrong...like I have to "pass" some test....My test was being true to myself, which we are far better at than most "normal" folks.

[frisbee_girl]

I would imagine for me, if I had perfect hair, make-up, outfit, etc... I think my Adam's Apple would give it away. If I wore a turtle neck or something else that would cover that up, I think my hand might give it away. Although I've noticed there are a lot of women with man hands. I could probably pass for an elite female endurance athlete. They can be pretty boyish in appearance and their skin can be a bit leathery.

As an aside, I've spent the last week or so imagining all the women I see are actually dressed en femme. It's amazing how many women wouldn't pass.

[Genifer Teal]

We can make a very long list of ways men look different than woman and most of them can't be changed with out tremendous effort. That is no reason to overlook what we can do. With the right look you can overcome many of those issues and look a great deal better than you might imagine.

It has been said over and over to dress appropriately. This means both for your age and where you will be presenting yourself. Also consider your age when choosing a wig, and learn how to style it or have it professional done - for those special occasions. Hair is a very noticeable feature, and while we may have to wear one, it doesn't have to look like one or like it just came out of a box. Tone down your makeup unless you are going for a night on the town. Consider a makeover. You may learn some useful tips. Learn a natural feminine walk - not some over exaggerated runway walk. Many times I can tell a male walk from a distance, long before I can see the persons face. Some are more noticeable than others. CD events are a great place to observe this. Take note of other feminine mannerisms and copy them. Above all, be confident in who you are.

I could continue but I think you get the idea. Don't fret the details until you have conquered the basics. How people perceive you is a balance between what your eyes see and what your brain thinks it sees. Think of it like an optical illusion, you can trick the brain to make it see what you want. Improve upon what you have before worrying about the major changes.

Gen

[Katesback]

I had a revalation. I now know why VERY few CDs P__S. It is because they are men wearing dresses. Sometimes dressed like ****s, sometimes dressed in clothing soo out of place it is a red flag. Sometimes they are wearing clothing that was popular 20 years ago. Sometimes they walk like a guy, sometimes they just dont even carry themselves like a girl. Finally last but not least. VERY and I Mean VERY few can even pull off a voice that works not to mention the idea of carring on a conversation that is correct (even if the voice did work).

Whats the point? Well the point is and always has been that for 99% of ya your not going ever be able to put forth a seamless presentation. For that matter thats even very difficult for a TS girl. It takes SOOOOOOO much effort and when you are presenting a female once a month or something like that its never going to work!!!

Now on the other hand if you are just comfortable being you, then do whatever it takes to be happy and damm the rest of the world.

I have lived through those days of looking like a guy in a dress and now life is different. I did not die, nobody beat me up, I am still here. It can be done!!!

Katie

[ReineD]

Kate, this was your intro to the forum back in November:

Hi there everyone. My name is Katie and I am new to the site. I work in HIV prevention that targets transgender people in South Florida. I also happen to be post opp TS. At this point I should say that I am really easy going and as the manager of Tri ESS puts it "Katie is the only TS that is invited to the meetings since she does not act like TS girls towards CD's".

So tell me ... how does a TS girl act towards CDs? Surely not with derision like this:

I now know why VERY few CDs P__S. It is because they are men wearing dresses. Sometimes dressed like ****s, sometimes dressed in clothing soo out of place it is a red flag. Sometimes they are wearing clothing that was popular 20 years ago. Sometimes they walk like a guy, sometimes they just dont even carry themselves like a girl.

You do know this is a support site, don't you? There are better ways to help those TGs who are here to learn than by regurgitating your anger, arrogance, and superiority all over them. And you do know there are a good many CDs here who have perfectly good taste in clothing and who carry themselves well? :Angry3:

[crusadergirl]

Theres no way to dress your age b/c how are you going to know what clothes you have to wear. Ok now to the part where you fail to pass, its because your walking to slow. .
Other then that to pass you must go out shopping with teenage girls so they can pick your clothes , but thats only if your under 35. Confidence is key but not in passing.

[Byanca]

I pass well enough when out walking, if I dress normal. Super short skirt will always draw eyes. Below the knee and the attention drops markedly.

Yesterday only one guy followed me with his eyes, and sat down to keep an eye me in the library. Kinda regretted I didn't take the heels though, when that happened :

Not one person acted weird all the way there, it was only street lightning.

[noeleena]

Hi..
For me as a person .with the mix of both andro .

Has been . To be accepted . at 62 .
i spos i could have my make up done so well that many people would not reconise me . My clothes are quite normal for a woman . shoes just flats
my walk is as a woman . & voice its good enough . my skin is very good . olive . & soft . if i use the word pass in many ways its good
.
Heres the twist many women here in n z are just that women .yet i have women friends who have male features are hairy low voices . walk a bit like males . no one seems to be bothered . of cause they have hormonal details going on . yet they accept me for who i am .
I know i v said this before . my profile has gone before me . so many people know who i am. what i did & how i got to where i am now . the point for me is not wether i can or not pass . its about being true up front & not trying to hide behind some thing you are not . or something i m not .

I would not say to some one else what they should do . because we are all different .
For me i am accepted as a woman . & i dont have to be any thing else . i dont have to prove i m a woman . i m just me . there are things about this kid . that can not be changed . & some of those details hurt . so i have accepted those . & i live with those .

i dont wish to be younger or to have been born a girl because thats not me .
I m happy with who i am . yes its hard not to have my womb . not to be able to have my child . yet in all i have gone throgh over my life i can say i have both sides of knowing what its like being male. not a complete one .. & being able to be a woman . yes not a complete one .

My main detail is i accept my self for who i am . & to be accepted as well.

A ? comes up to me with this & that is are you accepted in the other roll other than the birth you were born in . The ? is of cause . are you happy with that . or not as that can determine how you accept your self . as you dress as a female or as a woman . how you act . ( not the right word . ) any way . or try to be a woman . or like one .

I could go to a girls school & learn how. go to make up class s. & do fashion . & learn it all even act it . yet for me there would be some thing missing . it would not be the real who i am .
So i may not pass. as to what we are talking about . yet i do in other ways & that is in my attrubutes attatude. manner . & being just me . thats why i m accepted with in many womens groups & funny as it is by many men .
so yes i can really say ... I do pass...

...noeleena...

[Katesback]

Ummmmmm Renea:

I am not angry, I am not superior to anyone, I have never claimed to be better than anyone and I am surprised at how you can even come to that conclusion.

Yes it is a support group, yes it is supposed to be helpful, yes I am VERY realistic, yes sometimes the truth is far away from dreamland, YES I have and continue to be VERY supportive of all trans people by encouraging them to be whever they are regardless of what the world thinks.

I have done it myself! I am lived through the process, I can now speak because I LIVED it. Even to this day some people can figure me out! Yes thats correct, do I go crawl in a hole? Nope, I walk with confidence and live my life however I wish.

As I said my support comes from telling peple to be who they are. That my dear is by far the best support and encouragement that anyone could ever offer.

KAtie

[Erica2Sweet]

...Funally last but sureley not least. VERY and I Mean VERY can even pull off a voice that works not to mention the idea of carring on a conversation that is correct (even if the voice did work)...

I'm curious. What is a correct conversation as opposed to an incorrect one?

..and what does funally mean? Do you mean its funny to you when you encounter a CD that is having trouble achieving a feminine voice?

[bobbiepoly]

scared to death evertime I go out, but feels better after a while and you
get more confident, how great is it to here how can i help you maam

[victoriamwilliams1]

For me I had that happen to me in the early years of going out and I was in my car when they notice me as a guy. So what I did was hit the drawing board and study women and I did find that what we think about women is not 100% accurate:

1. Big hands : I have seen GG's with big hands it is also based on body size and those women (some in my family) tend to keep longer nails to deflect from hand size.

2. Hairy arms: I have been seeing women with hairy arms and even chest lately and they are GG's.

3. All women sway hips: This is not as common as we think. I have seen women who do not do that and I have seen men who do!

4. All women have hips: Not true thats why the have hip pads! not only CD/TG's use them GG women use them as well.

5. Legs shapes are based on genetics as well there are men who have "women" legs and some women who do not have shape.

6. I have seen women with broad shoulders as well and again it is the genetics of a person that determines body types.

7. I am too tall: A girl in the U.S. is over 7ft tall and plays high school basketball.

I will say that some of us as well as genetic women will dress below age and at times that draws attention for people to do close inspection. I will say from personal experience that I was at a store and the SA had a boys name and had some very masculine features with nice long hair and at first I thought she was a TG and later found out she was all GG! What I am saying is that is is how you carry yourself as well and we tend to try to fit in as the perfect woman instead of being ourselves. Also your comfort level will help you in public and to achieve that you must go out often to build that comfort. I suggest starting at smaller stores that do not have allot of traffic and that is far away from home and for me I would go 50-60 miles away from home and that helped me.

8. My voice it too low! So is Joyce Meyers

[ReineD]

Yes it is a support group, yes it is supposed to be helpful, yes I am VERY realistic, yes sometimes the truth is far away from dreamland, YES I have and continue to be VERY supportive of all trans people by encouraging them to be whever they are regardless of what the world thinks.

OK, then I misread your post. It just seemed so condescending.

One of the issues, and I do NOT understand this well so please bear with me, is the different goals that TGs have and this is further complicated by where they are along the gender continuum (if there is such a thing).

I'm not sure if you agree with this or not, but there is a standard joke floating around about the difference between a TS and a CD being several years. Yes, some CDs are latent TSs, but there are lots of CDs who identify as men who are also feminine, or they identify as bi-gendered, and they have no wish to take hormones nor do they wish to transition. There are some CDs who want to pass, and others for whom it is not a priority. They are quite happy being seen as a transperson, as long as they are respected. There are some CDs who look at the CDing as a fun hobby and who are OK with just floating around TG safe areas, while for others it is deeper. Most CDs just want to be taken seriously and of course they want to be safe. Blending in is also a way to minimize danger by staying outside of the transphobics' radars. There are even some (although rarer) CDs who just want to wear skirts and they are happy identifying as a guy in a dress.

I'm not sure what the situation is among TSs. I know that the goal for some is to go stealth, but I don't know whether this is desired in order to live peacefully in a biased society, or if going stealth fulfills the very deep need to finally have a body that matches the gender. It is either both, or it probably depends on the TS? Yet I know others for whom being taken consistently as a GG will not happen because of their physiognomy and the age at which they transitioned, and they have come to terms with not going stealth. They've developed a tough skin, they've forged on with their lives, and they don't care what others think.

So you see there is a vast array of motives and needs and a very wide spectrum in terms of the desired presentation. Not everyone wants to wear the latest fashion, and lots of others just want to wear mini-skirts, fishnets, and stilettos.

[Erica2Sweet]

...One of the issues, and I do NOT understand this well so please bear with me, is the different goals that TGs have and this is further complicated by where they are along the gender continuum (if there is such a thing)...

Personally I think you understand it very well based on your post. We all are individuals with different backgrounds and life experiences, therefore we do have different goals and motivations regarding what we do in life. Each of us has unique wants and desires that depend on a great many things including how we were raised, our religion, our morals and values, what we experienced in life so far, what we yearn to experience, and who we surround ourselves with. Why we do what we do, and where we are headed in life is not dictated by one specific nuance of our personality. Humans are more complicated than that.

What I'm saying is that to lump a bunch of folks together because they share a common interest or quirk and try to pin a common goal on us is a wasted effort.

[lissetta]

When you say ive got it going on just carry that attitude thru the rest of the night/day thats what i * try to do * there are those days!