Telling the SO, Bad Reaction, Giving up CD'ing

[Nadia-Maria]

I have always disagreed with the "Write 'em!" crowd. It's cowardly, it's clumsy, it's written evidence...

Your statement is incorrectly done, and appears as especially arrogant. You should instaed have written something like that :

"In my opinion, it's cowardly (...)"

This is your opinion indeed, and only your opinion. You don't have to show it here as if were the truth.
Others may disagree with you and are entitled to do it, since it's a matter of circumstances and of the people involved. There is not an only way to handle properly delicate situations. It depends on the people concerned and on the relationship. People who would act differently from you may have good reasons to do it which you can't understand yet.

[Sara Jessica]

Reading this thread has been a little like passing a car crash, kind of hard to turn away, especially given the divergent opinions and advice in response.

Georgi, there's not a lot I can add from an advice standpoint. Your situation is foreign to me because my wife knew of my tg side long before we were married. That said, you made comments in response to the others which I find troubling...

I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.

I'm having difficulty with this, that you would make such a momentous decision because a bunch of "experts" in cyberspace suggested that you enter into full-disclosure mode after gosh knows how many years of marriage. Geez, we have much more influence than I could have ever imagined.

I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.

Something isn't adding up. Weeks to compose a letter, presented on July 5, a techniqe supposedly inspired by the "how-to-tell-your-SO" thread, yet you've only been a member since "July 2010". Not only were you influenced but you were speed-influenced. We're clearly very talented in these parts! Again, weeks to compose the letter? Maybe I'm missing something and if so, please help me understand.

[mklinden2010]

Your statement is incorrectly done, and appears as especially arrogant. You should instaed have written something like that :

"In my opinion, it's cowardly (...)"

This is your opinion indeed, and only your opinion. You don't have to show it here as if were the truth.
Others may disagree with you and are entitled to do it, since it's a matter of circumstances and of the people involved. There is not an only way to handle properly delicate situations. It depends on the people concerned and on the relationship. People who would act differently from you may have good reasons to do it which you can't understand yet.

Saying, "I," in my response, pretty much covers the "my opinion" bit.

And, ONLY my opinion means a lot to me - count on it.

But, what is "the" truth that you speak of?

Do share - I think, in my opinion, to my limited understanding, as I see things, as I grasp the concept, to my mind, as it seems to me - it's why we're here.

[Pythos]

Here is a variation of what we are witnessing here.

Now the subjects are much different than Men presenting a women.

It however involves something that is part of your soul and being, and if you lose it the effects can be devastating.

Not only am I androdynous, and Goth...I am also a pilot. Coursing through my veins is the "disease" of the want to at least once a month to be in the presence of machines that are dirty, smell, emit noxious fumes and have a high chance of killing you if you are stupid. But the feeling of flying is like no other, especially when on you own, and have no need to communicate with the outside world.

Several years ago one of the "old men of the airport" an older gentleman that had been flying since WWII, who owned his own airplane came to visit my boss's hanger. That day he was not the happy joking guy he usually was before getting his trusty steed out of the hanger and taking it up for a few hours.

This day though he was clearly troubled. His wife started acting stupid about his flying. Though not puking in the toilet, she was putting up a stink about the plane (this guy was filthy rich, so it was not anything about finances). They were married I think two or more years.

He said she had given him an ultimatum after months of limitations on his flying. (this guy was seriously P.W. an unpleasant term applied to men that collapse to the whims of the wife so they don't lose sex) When my boss, another older man, who served in the Chech air force also during WWII, looked at his friend and said "What?! She's telling you to get rid of the Bonanza or she leaves? Tell her to F&%k herself!!!" The conversation continued in much the same vein.

Couple of weeks later the plane was sold, and all was supposedly well. That old guy did not fly and vanished from the airport for about a month, or so we thought.

Then one day he shambled in, slumped shoulders, dejected look. We learned that he indeed went flying in a rental plane, and she learned. She left him. Now he was without his wonderful machine, and divorced.

Though on a different scale, CDing is very much like flying. There are those that can consider both a selfish act (Pilots who can afford it can spend many hours flying solo, flying only for their own enjoyment).

My reaction to Gerogi's wife is kinda based on the recollection of this example of supreme selfishness, and stupidity. Selfishness on the part of the woman and stupidity on the part of the guy that tried to give up flying.

Just like CDing you can't stop flying when aviation is a part of your being.

[AKAMichelle]

Sorry for your wife's reaction. I seem to think that you did everything right as far as telling her when you did. I don't see anything wrong with your presentation.

Many of us didn't know how cd'ing worked when we were young. In my case I thought it was over when I married my wife. Several years later I had a relapse (so to speak), but a lot of my early cd'ing was sexual. So I continued to believe that it could be beaten. Now at age 50 I see that it changed and left me different. I would have made a lot of changes earlier if I knew then what I know now.

I think your story speaks to the difficulties many of us who didn't tell early have when telling a spouse later in life. It doesn't go well. A lot of times it rips the marriage apart. When I told my wife it was in hopes of repairing an already failing marriage. All that it did was speed up the process and end earlier. Which I am not unhappy about, just disappointed. I think the lesson which can be learned here is to tell the woman before you commit to them. Before you marry them. I think telling them early allows you to get to the one which will love you unconditionally faster and weed out a lot of heartache. What is the difference between being alone and being miserable? Not much in my book. Both leave you depressed and the feeling of abandonment.

Now the problem that you need to address with a therapist is how to deal with things not getting better between the two of you. It may take a long time for her, before the 2 of you get back to a semi-normal marriage. That will be hard and hopefully you will be successful.

One thing that I didn't read is how old you are? How many years have you been married? Does religion play a part in her non-acceptance? Do you have any kids? I think these items are part of the story about her non-acceptance.

Good luck to both of you. Hopefully you will find a way to patch up the marriage and live a long life together.

[Rachel Morley]

The real problem is not the CDing, it is the unwillingness of your wife to be open to the idea that there are aspects of you that she may not like but, out of her love for you, should be willing to try and understand.

Awesome statement! That sentence right there is the very crux of the issue. "... be willing to try and understand" If a perosn really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?. Putting one's head in the sand is not going to accomplish anything. Hopefully after the initial shock has worn off, perhaps you can save your marriage by both of you going to a councilor to talk about this.

[mklinden2010]

Awesome statement! That sentence right there is the very crux of the issue. "... be willing to try and understand" If a perosn really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?. Putting one's head in the sand is not going to accomplish anything. Hopefully after the initial shock has worn off, perhaps you can save your marriage by both of you going to a councilor to talk about this.

Yep, hers is the other side of the street that has to respond better than tossing her cookies, running to Mom and/or the lawyers.

I've had three really solid SOs (I've been married or in an SO relationship most of my life) who heard me out, thought it over, and, our lives went on just fine.

It wasn't all me - it wasn't all them - it was us.

You can do a lot of dumb things and the right SO will get you through it.

Works the other way too.

If it works, that's how it works.

[NicoleScott]

At work, I always begin meetings by discussing with the participants the purpose of the meeting: why we're here and what we want to accomplish. Meetings don't go well if there's no agreement on this.
If you (as a couple) are considering going to counseling, you must discuss the reasons you're there: if you want her to accept your CD-ing and she's there to get you cured, counseling will fail. Sort of: the counselor still gets paid.

[Georgi]

I'm not good at the multiple quote thing, so I'll write another summary response:

On the letter thing - Let it go. I did mis-quote the How to Tell You Partner thread. It said to take notes and use them to help you talk to her. I should have done the same, using my letter as a guide to help me talk to my wife. But that's history except for discussion of how to do it better. But quit with the yelling and screaming.

Georgi - I chose this as my name because it's the Russian form of George, so I chose a boy's name for myself for the forum, not a girl's name. I've chosen to give myself a male identity on this forum to help guide myself in trying to stick to my plan of submerging the crossdressing.

The Immature Attitude - Thanks for pointing out that Silhouette surely was talking about the wife. I apologize to Silhouette for flashing back too quickly with an incorrect assumption, I see it now.

Again, multiple posters are encouring me to see that I am and always will be a crossdresser, and I'm setting myself up for unhappiness if I deny that. Folks, I'm already in a place where I'm going to be unhappy about something. Losing my wife of 31 years will kill me. I've sat in the dark just trying to imagine living the rest of my life (I'm only 57) without her and THAT is what depresses the hell out of me. I love this woman and am going to do what it takes to keep her. If that means I am occasionally unhappy about a part of my life that I'm suppressing then so be it. That's probably the best way to look at why I'm boing to cousneling, to learn how to deal with the loss of crossdressing, not so much with trying to 'cure myself.'

A point I will make again to several who have said 'let her go'. That is not going to happen. I've loved this woman for longer than I've even had a life without her, voluntarily letting her go is just not an option for me regardless of what sacrifice I have to make. If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

Thanks again for all the input. I love you all,
Georgi

[pj]

There's nothing worse than the end of a long term relationship. No one needs that pain.

But...I'm always surprised to read something like this:

having wrecked what used to be a wonderful marriage.

Surprised that anyone could consider a relationship wonderful or solid or perfect when one of the people in it is horrified, repulsed or otherwise turned off by who the other person really is. Trying to save a relationship like that seems more than a little masochistic to me. I'm on the side of those who feel the people in the relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

Yes, I have been in long term relationships, and yes I know how painful it can be when they end. But life is short, and it seems a little tragic to spend it with someone who doesn't like who you really are.

[mklinden2010]

>>> On the letter thing - Let it go. I did mis-quote the How to Tell You Partner thread. It said to take notes and use them to help you talk to her. I should have done the same, using my letter as a guide to help me talk to my wife.


G,

Good summary.

Thanks for pointing out what the "How to tell" actually section says. Glad to hear it.

I have heard, "Write her a letter" so many times around here I thought that was still method number one.

Thirty one years? Ach, you'll work it out. You've made some mistakes, but you're on the way to mending them and you'll both get past this.

Good job on your current priorities.

This is going to wind up being a positive thing - as long as you keep admitting you're human, have been for a long time, and, probably always will be.

Only 57?

So much time to do so much more...

I take it, by the way, that you started young, found CDing useful, and just kept it on a back burner all this time?

No harm done then. And, good news! You're NOT suddenly someone else!

So, anyway.... Why speak up now?

Anything particular that prompted that?

Did you just want a couple of weekends on the town, or, what?

Sometimes, if you can be specific about what you want, it's a lot easier to work out what you (both) get.

And, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as everyone knows what's going on...

The first step can be the hardest.

After that, you learn not to take such big steps.

I'm on the side of those who feel the people in the relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

I take a different view on GOOD relationships. A GOOD relationship is more important than the people in it, and, the people in it, know it. You can get another person, but a good deal is a good deal. Do you see what I mean? Widows and widowers know how to get along, most times, better than newbies...

Two individuals, are just that, individual. When you enter into an agreement with another person, you create something greater than both of you. The point of creating a relationship is that it creates a boat, a bubble, a bridge with you two together and the rest of the world, "over there," "out there," or, "down there." We, at the same time, agree to leave you alone to pursue your happiness as you see fit together. And, it's in our self-interest to leave you two to your own plans if we want to be left to do the same.

The relationship creates an "us" bond based on the mutual pledge to look out for one another. In simple terms, it's going through life using "the buddy system" to minimize risk and energy loss, maximize security and purposeful activity, etc. There's all sorts of relationships and the challenge comes when someone says, "I didn't sign up for this!" Well, maybe they did and maybe they didn't - but you better listen. It's the same with, "I think now I want to..." They better listen then too.

If you want to have a bad relationship, think either one of you can do whatever the hell you want and the other one is stuck with whatever you do. Not!

If you want a good relationship, think about how "we" are going to do things, where "we'd" like to be later, and so forth.

If "I" gets worked into discussions too often, someone eventually winds up saying,

"I wish THAT hadn't happened!"

[Aleria]

One other component...

WE have this forum. We can come here, commiserate, and get support (and we many not always like it, advice).

She's probably feeling lost. Whom can she talk to? Notice how we tend to keep this hidden, desperately afraid to share with anyone, lest we be thought of horribly or lose friendships?

She's probably wanting to talk with someone, but is afraid. "What will they think?" "What does it make me look like?" "Will they still like me?"

Could she tell her parents? Seek advice from a girlfriend? Coworker? She's outing herself... And given her negative reaction, she's probably imposed that same reaction upon any conceptional dialogue.

Her whole world is upside down, and she feels trapped and unable to tell anyone. Can't imagine she's feeling too good, and every time she sees you, she sees the One Who Ruined It All.

[Ria]

ohhh... that blows Georgi... so sorry to hear this.

Hopfully she can eventually understand that CDing has chosen you not the other way around. We are simply a group of men that most often must choose acceptance of ones self and view it as a positive. CDing is such an easy thing to love, fortunately/unfortunately

I wish you the very best on overcoming this chapter.

[Georgi]

>>>
So, anyway.... Why speak up now?

Anything particular that prompted that?

Actually there is, and that's one of the reasons I started this thread. I spent a year on this forum, first lurking and then registered under another name (long story I shouldn't share publicly). Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song.

I wanted to post this thread to bring a little reality check to this 'tell her' concept, expose the risks, and discuss the dark side of it. We've done that to some degree although most of what we've talked about, and I'm not complaining, is advice on how I can fix my problem. Maybe later the philosophical discussion of tell/don't tell can proceed. I'm sure it's too early in my story to even know the full story as mine has a long ways to go to finish playing out.

Anyway, just wanted to give you a little more background on why I had told her in the first place. Up until 6 or 8 months ago, I'd have sworn to you there was no way I'd have ever told my wife about it, and I would have told you it was because there was no way she could ever accept the alternative lifestyle. Seems that I knew her better than I thought...

Thx,
Georgi

[carhill2mn]

I am sorry that you are going through such a tough time. Your experience is not all that unusual. Despite the fact that many people feel it is better to tell your spouse that you are CD, things often do not go well. Many SO's are unable or unwilling to be at all understanding. Sometimes one can get a "feel" for how a SO might react to the "news" from earlier conversations or comments. Then there are others that are "OK" with CDing as long as it is not "her man" who is the CD.
IMHO it is a crap shoot (no pun intended) and the CD really needs to determine the "pros" and "cons" before telling.
I wish you good luck.

[Sara Jessica]

...I spent a year on this forum, first lurking and then registered under another name (long story I shouldn't share publicly). Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song...

Well that explains much and takes the steam out of my criticism so thank you for clarifying. That said, I still sense a contradiction. You mention a desire to "free the inner woman" yet you self-identify the whole thing as being a fetish situation. Those are two entirely different concepts. You chose to share a fetish which happens to repulse the one you love. The fetish could have been a completely different type and met with the same result. That said, assuming there was no inner woman to release, I'd have thought longer and harder about what good could possibly come from bringing said fetish into a 31 year marriage. I do wish you the best of luck in all this because as you are well aware, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle.

[windycissy]

This is so sad, on so many levels...primary I feel sad for you Georgi, who tried your best and are hurting now, my heart goes out to you and I hope you are able to get through this, you obviously love her very much and maybe that will get you two through this. Almost as sad, though, is the gratuitious sniping and holier-than-thou preaching by some of us here who can't resist the urge to pile on, just when you need our unconditional support the most.

[KarenCDFL]

I also have to agree with Pythos.

You have forgotten the fact that cross dressing is part of your personality and you will not be able to stop doing it or thinking about it without doing harm to yourself in some way.

There is no reason that your wife has to accept you and maybe never will. That is something you are going to have to accept.

BUT, you are not doing anything wrong as Pythos commented.

There seem to be more issues under the covers than just your cross dressing and that was just the kicker for everything else.

And for her to "throw up" over this is just a bit too dramatic in my view.

I wish your wife and yourself the the very best of luck in this matter.

Life does go on and if it souls come to pass that the two of you move on separately, next time you know you will need to be up front with anyone you are planning to have a long relationship with.

[Lorileah]

Ok I stayed out of this long enough.

Empathy is high but sympathy is low here. So now the OP has said that it was a pressure from everyone here which led to the letter and the coming out. As noted in an earlier post letter=bad idea. I reeks of "I am ashamed and afraid." and it is set in stone so to speak. Like the old story about the brother who call another brother and asks how the cat is. The cat died. OMG why didn't you temper that with a story??...same here. Hand spouse a letter, I like wearing women's clothes...everything from then on is moot, world crashes. Given that most people here no longer have the option to come out at the beginning of a relationship. Also a given that waiting for 30 years into a marriage when you KNOW the spouse would disapprove to come out....not a good idea. Seems you could sort of know how they would react by then. This gets back to the "I feel for you but what the heck were you thinking" part. Sometimes slow and steady is better.

So the gist of the "tell her" posts you were reading didn't say slap her in the face (at least as far as I remember...but maybe there was one or two that said that) with the information. Most said talk to her (talk...communicate face to face...not email, not letter, not phone call from a hotel in Baltimore). I know that there were posts that said write a letter...but they meant write stuff down so you could talk.

You know this won't go away. It won't go away from her stand point because every time you go to buy milk she will think you are sneaking out to dress up (and whatever misconceptions she has about what you do then). You can tell her you won't do it. She will KNOW you will. If you can drop this then the whole thing was at least in your mind a game that you were playing. You wore the clothes for fun. Thus why did you have to tell to start with? Wasn't any fun anymore? But if this is truly who you are, you can say you'll quit, you might even succeed at least awhile and then you will do it again. Now it is a sneak thing again, a lie. You will sneak around fearful and afraid and your demeanor will change and you will become unbearable. Then she will start to suspect. Hopefully she will only suspect you are dressing again but in her mind you are cheating, even if you aren't and she will start being unpleasant and now the whole divorce thing comes back up. One or both of you will be unhappy in this relationship.

My soapbox about all this is you had a marriage based on fallacies. You assumed a lot she assumed a lot and evidently you didn't assume the same thing. Dating has a lot of good reasons and it isn't just to get "some" you know. It is when you find out how the other person thinks and feels. Someone wasn't paying attention. Ok so you get married and you both assume that the castle and princesses and princes and no dragons...but you still know how the person feels on certain subjects. They don't like short people or they hate the color yellow. You don't have short friends and you don't buy the color yellow. But when she says something like "Did you see how that guy dressed in that movie? What a weirdo." Pretty god indication you should either come clean then (early) so you both can move on or you live with your secret...until you can maybe slowly change her thoughts on it. Not in one fell swoop.

Now the other point I want to make here is the word Fetish. There is the implied sexual part of this. Or something one does for sexual gratification. That is how we have come to associate the word now (actually a fetish is an object that has mystical powers and often is held to invoke those powers). But to be blunt here, even if some people on this board have a sexual "fetish" for clothes (in other words they have to dress to have sex), dressing in and of itself is NOT a fetish for the majority. We cannot overcome prejudice when we propagate it ourselves.

Sorry for the long post but all the "poor me" posts are really just "feel sorry for me" posts recently and the spouse is cast in the bad person role. Two way street here. Responsibility rests on telling early so the relationship can either grow or fail before your investment is too high

[TonyaV]

Oh I don't disagree a bit with you about her acceptance. She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser and that's fine. What I'm hoping for is that someday (soon, hoepfully) she will be able to accept that I once was a crossdresser. If not, then this whole act of truthfulness was one total royal f*%kup on my part.

Thx,
Georgi

WERE you once a crossdresser?

I thought so, of myself, several times, and purges many times - on my own. But the urges keep coming back. I came out to my wife last year, and it did not go very well - not nearly as bad as your situation, though (I am very sorry for what you're going through - I truly feel for you). Mine asked me to stop shaving etc... and let her know if feelings come back. If you're interested about my situation, I'll be glad to share (don't want to hijack the thread).

If you're communicating at all, and you currently feel you don't want to CD, tell her so, but then you would need her help and support. If she's not willing, then you may have other issues besides your CD'ing. Tell her you realize it's a problem, a disease, whatever label you choose...

On the other hand, this may turn out to be the best thing to happen to you - you may not realize it for another 10 years.

When I told my wife, one of the first things she said to me "I always thought you had 'feminine' tendencies in you; they way you act" etc... My point is, our wives are usually attracted to who and what we are, and a lot of times, they reject the idea of acceptance, in the hope of molding us into what they want us to be.

[ReineD]

Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth.

I appreciate your wish to warn other CDs that telling the truth is not always the best policy. I'm in no position to judge whether this is true for you or not, since you first describe the CDing as a sexual fetish that can be shelved for the sake of your marriage, and then you speak of it as a deeper identity issue:

(and it is a fetish, not a lifestyle)

the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song.

The surface goal in telling wives is to have honesty within the relationship, and not deceive the wife. But the reason honesty is preferable over deceipt is that in enables the person to be true to who he is, thus making it possible to achieve optimal self-actualization. This is true for everyone. I can't imagine living a life, feeling I could not disclose who I am to the people I love.

If the CDing is only a fetish to you, then I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to realign your sexual desires in order to be more in tune with your wife's. There are sex therapists who can help with this sort of thing. Honestly, I don't see a difference between CDing purely as a sexual fetish, and other fetishes such as the need for bondage or sado-masochism. If your wife finds any type of sex play distasteful, if the totality of her sexual experience is sourced from her emotional bond with you and her desire to maintain traditional roles within your sexual relationship, and if she wants to be the sole source of your sexual desire, then it would behoove you to do what you can in order to meet her there. Sexual compatibility is important in a marriage. In other words, it is best for your relationship if you become aroused by your wife rather than the CDing.

In any event instead of telling her that you are an ex-CD, tell her the truth that you will sacrifice your own needs for the sake of the relationship but that these CD thoughts will always be with you and she needs to deal with that knowledge and accept it.

But I suspect you told your wife because the CDing is more than a fetish. Or maybe you felt the inner conflict between your sexual desires as Georgi and as your wife's husband. Either way, you felt stuck somehow and this made you unhappy, else I don't think you would have told her. But if you suspect that you might engage in the CDing for deeper reasons than the purely sexual, I wholeheartedly agree with Satrana's approach. If you don't do this, you risk eventually losing your marriage, your sanity, or both, since you cannot deny your gender identity, even if you only partially have a femme identification together with your male ID.

I wish you and your wife all the best in this, and I'm glad you posted your experience.

[Olivia2]

Georgi,

I may add more in a later post, but given that it has been less than a month since you told your wife, don't get anxious because things are not smoothed over in the relationship. You were in a difficult position in either case regarding whether to keep a big secret in the relationship or open things up and in either case the potential for emotional distance, at least for you, and maybe your wife in either case as well. You chose what you thought was best and hopefully it will turn out the way you wish. But it will take time and try not to get to attached to any outcome so soon. I'm sure many people here can testify to similar reactions from spouses when they were told and a month is simply not enough time for the emotional processing to take place. I hope your therapist is supportive and not judgmental so you can explore what is best for you (and your marriage) in the current time period. My best wishes and prayers for you both.

[Georgi]

As noted in an earlier post letter=bad idea. I reeks of "I am ashamed and afraid."

Can we get off this letter thing? I didn't mail it to her. I didn't send it to her from another state. Yes, I should have taken her hands in mine, looked into her eyes and said the words from memory. But numerous posts had mentioned the technique of writing things out in a letter to give her while she sips hot chocolate with you by her side, so you wouldn't get tangled up and forget crucial things, and you're there to answer any questions she has. But 'reeks of ashamed and afraid'? I really tried to do the best job I could of breaking it to her gently and with love and respect. So pardon me if I f**cked up.

Also a given that waiting for 30 years into a marriage when you KNOW the spouse would disapprove to come out....not a good idea. Seems you could sort of know how they would react by then. This gets back to the "I feel for you but what the heck were you thinking" part. Sometimes slow and steady is better.

Yeah, after 30 years I did change my mind. Why? I found you guys.

Lorileah, bless your heart, yours was one of the loudest of the loud of the tell-her crowd. Your constant chant of 'tell her', 'if she doesn't like it leave', 'you must be true to your own self', etc. was all over the place. I don't want to start a flamefest, your opinion is yours and may well be a valid point of view and good advice for some people. Didn't work out so well for me. I should have stayed my own course. I do take full responsibility for my own actions, nobody held a gun to my head, but if I had never heard of crossdressers.com, I can guarantee that I'd have never come out to my wife and I'd still be guiltily hiding my stuff in the attic.

My soapbox about all this is you had a marriage based on fallacies. You assumed a lot she assumed a lot and evidently you didn't assume the same thing.

Thank you for the psychoanalysis. I guess I don't need to bother with going to the therapist after all.

I'm sorry to make this so hostile, but I really do remember your advice being so pro-'tell-her'. Go back and search for posts under your name and see if the 'tell her' theme doesn't show up in a great number of them.

Thx,
Georgi

[Georgi]

I'm going to cool off and not post mean and hateful stuff so this doesn't turn into a flamefest.

Lorileah, I'm sorry for flaming you, but I do stand by what I said about your being a very pro 'tell-her' advocate. In fact, this entire forum is very strongly biased toward the tell-her side of the argument.

As I said before, I don't blame anyone even though it sounds that way in my posts. I am a big boy and I take responsibility for my actions. I am somewhat bitter over the fact that if I had never discovered this forum I would never have been exposed to the transgendered way of thinking and I would have almost certainly never come out to my wife (never say never).

But I got caught up in a lot of conversations this spring, and although I felt strongly that I was not transgendered but more of a fetish crossdresser, I got caught up in the argument that honesty was the only way to live life with my wife. Didn't matter that it had been 31 years, yes there would be flak over the long time, and there would be some pain over that, but coming out to her later would be better than having her accidentally finding it or coming out voluntarily still later on.

I had been convinced my entire married life she would not handle it well, that she did not view alternative lifestyles well. Somewhere in the last couple of months I deluded myself into believing that either that was changing or that somehow I could make that change with honesty and love.

So, I'm sorry for stirring the flames. Lorileah, again I apologize for being nasty in the way I spoke to you.

Thx to all,
Georgi

[paulinescotlandcd]

If it helps I remember asking on another Forum many years ago for those who had told their wives partners etc after some time together if the result was positive or negative. I am pretty sure they vote came out in favour of telling by about 90% for and about 10% that said things went from bad to worse. I reckon your wife's reaction must surely be at the extreme end of that 10%.

As for me I told my wife before we got married 30 odd years ago, still been a rough old ride at times because as stated before women think that they can change little things like that! The answer to that is no. The urge to dress simply gets more intense as we get older. I say about mid 30's to mid 40's I cranked it up quite a bit by wanting a wig and my own clothes makeup etc.

Anyway, good luck from me.