Variants of transgendered women

[GaleWarning]

Very reminiscent of the mathematical notion of being able to sub-divide a small section of a number line into ever decreasing, but eternally divisible line segments!

It's the same here, I suspect.

May I suggest that we cease to dwell on those things which separate us one from another, and seek instead to find those things upon which we can all agree?

I'll make the initial call.

1. We all feel that it is ok to dress in the clothing of "the opposite sex".

(A nasty thought has just occurred to me ... perhaps we cannot even agree on this point!)
AAAAAAAAAARRRRGGGGH

[Jorja]

Jorja, did I ever profess to have all the answers hun? and did I profess to know everything? in fact I'm a student like the rest of us... and welcome that opportunity to expand my knowledge everyday... I really didnt think that I was really critical of her in any bad way... if anything I thought my contributions to this topic of discussion were some of the more informative and yet I'm merely a babe in the woods, so how about you climb down off your soapbox for a minute and have a good think about what you just said to me? and try and see this from other people's perspective as well?

MelodyN,
I am not going to get into a flame war with you. I have said my piece and that is that. Period

[ReineD]

Is all it has done is shown the rest of the community how limited her understanding about transgender issues really is.

I keep several things in mind when I read posts. The date joined, the number of posts, the country of origin., and the members' age as well, if it shines through the posts. There are other things to consider than the obvious, such as a facility with the written language. Not everyone has the ability to express their idea easily in writing. I have a son like this.

Linda is new, but is she also young? Might there be a small language barrier? Perhaps cultural differences in writing styles?

Yes, some of the answers are helpful, but others are down right insulting and some even make fun of her. Where is everyone's compassion? If someone wants to come in and help Linda expand her definitions this is fine, but to criticize her for attempting to make sense of it all is beyond rude in my opinion.

PS: So why didn't you manage to find away to organise it all Reine? Did you realise that it was a mammoth task & virtually impossible to define?

I have found a way to organize it all and my organization continues to evolve with each question I ask, each post I read and each post I make. And it will continue to evolve for as long as I'm here. Hopefully.

[Fraye]

Sometimes people choose between being compassionate and being right, and end up being neither.

[CharleneCD]

ReineD, I belong to a group or two where even having the word GURL in your screen name will stir up some interesting comments. What they would have done to this topic and the person posting it is not worth thinking about. Then again they do advertise not being the place to discuss trans 101 type issues. What I am trying to say, is that I have seen true bashing and this is not it. We all as newbies come in with ideas that are guided by what we have been taught by society. (in other words wrong) Constructive criticism is a good way to make make someone look at what they are saying and thinking, and there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is done with tact and manners. Yes some who have posted to this thread did so without tact, you would have had better results going after them on that angle. Instead of the broad brush of "all of you give her a break" try "constructive criticism is OK, calling the post garbage is not".

[Emily Ann Brown]

Renee K...

I forget what I left my box...hahahahaha....an getting back in a box.

Em

[Kaitlyn Michele]

As i've said before, there are only 2 types of people in this world.

people that think there are two types of people , and people that don't.

people all think differently..i found the original post a bit wanting..my personal view around categorizing and labeling trans people has evolved over time. i have an open mind about it and i think its ok to debate the pros and cons.

one thing about lists is that it always makes some folks feel left out..on the other hand, its a great way to bridge understanding..

one thing i would add is that there is sometimes a feeling of empowerment and affirmation in finally getting to that point in your life where you "get it" or you feel like you've finally reached your own sense of peace...and the natural inclination is to want to share that and let people know about it...sometimes that can come off very condescending and judgmental (HRT discussions anyone??)...its a learning process for everyone and people that reach their goals need to learn how to communicate what they did and what they know in a less judging and more understanding way. this is especially evident when you trash someone's "list" because you think your list is the right one..

[Rianna Humble]

There is nothing in her post that indicates any of intention to find out where she fits in here. Is all it has done is shown the rest of the community how limited her understanding about transgender issues really is.

I really didnt think that I was really critical of her in any bad way...

In that case I'd hate to see you being critical in a bad way.

I admit I was taken aback by seeing the original post in this part of the site, and I do think that some of the comments here have been positive

So why didn't you manage to find away to organise it all Reine? Did you realise that it was a mammoth task & virtually impossible to define?

Unfortunately, this is not an example of those.

I never knew we could all be so easily pigeon-holed

Nor is this

I'm willing to do what Reine suggests and cut Linda some slack - are you?

[ReineD]

Yes some who have posted to this thread did so without tact, you would have had better results going after them on that angle. Instead of the broad brush of "all of you give her a break" try "constructive criticism is OK, calling the post garbage is not".

If you go back and read my post, I did address it to *those of you who criticize* Linda's attempt to make sense of it all, not *all of you* as you suggest. I did put it as nicely as I could and it was only later, after some members defended the direction this thread was taking, that I characterized some of the criticisms as being rude. Which they are.

Because cd.com has such a wide variety of members, sometimes the topics are trans 101. This happens in every section, and there's nothing wrong with this. We are a support forum. This particular section is one of the three that is accessible to the public and I hate to see gang mentality sentiments develop in threads here. They're just not nice. I honestly think we're a better forum than that. We also need to remember that we are transmen, transwomen, men, and women who ideally work in a spirit of cooperation, compassion, and sensitivity. We don't want to come off as being a forum full of territorial, insensitive louts, do we? Nor do we want to come off as bitchy divas? And before you accuse me of calling people in this thread a lout or a diva, I'm not. I'm just saying this is the impression outsiders will get of us if we allow the direction this thread was taking to continue, not to mention how Linda must feel reading some of the responses to her post.

[Jorja]

I do apologize for my out burst last night. Some of the things said and the way I took them just got my knickers in a knot.

[linda.wai]

I don't understand the disagreement. I just know now that not every transgendered woman is similar to one another. We are a very heterogenous group.

[Gerrijerry]

Ok and what is the point of this?

[ReineD]

I took it that Linda was trying to figure things out for herself. A mapping of her future of sorts.

[Rianna Humble]

May I suggest that we cease to dwell on those things which separate us one from another, and seek instead to find those things upon which we can all agree?

I'll make the initial call.

1. We all feel that it is ok to dress in the clothing of "the opposite sex".

To the extent that the original poster is trying to understand how different parts of the community have differing needs, there is nothing wrong with looking at how we differ. If it is done to divide us, then I would agree that it is not a good thing to do.

I'm glad your suggested starting point used sex rather than gender.

When we seek to understand how each others needs differ, we can grow stronger and more compassionate.

When we seek to encourage that which unites us, we grow together.

When we seek to denigrate or to concentrate on what divides us, we diminish not only the other person but ourselves as well.

[Katesback]

gave up with the labels. I have herd soo many that I am waiting for someone to tell me they are transSPECIES. When I hear that the circle will be complete.

[bobi jean]

Damn, I thought this was (it has been in the past) a support group.
How many differant variations of "TRANS" ANTHING are there?
I don't know either!!!
What I do know (I think) is WE ARE ALL DIFFERANT IN SO MANY WAYS, BUT ALSO THE SAME IN MANY WAYS.
WE COULD EACH "LABEL" OURSELF. A simple descriptive word to describe yourself, leaving absolutely no reason for any other person, regardless of their "LABLE", to discredit, question or in anyway argue with your "LABEL". Then in about 1000 years we can go back and list all the differant "LABELS" in alphebetical order to establish one or two "labels" that would describe everyone of us.
I'll start,
I'm a "ESTW ", (Early Stage Trans Woman ). born, raised and lived male for 60 years before starting transition.

EDIT;;; I went back to read the ORIGINAL post again..
nowhere did I read or see anything about the post being "all inclusive" simply a list of the variations known to the poster. Maybe we should ALL have added to the list instead of questioning the list!!! Do ya think????

[Kaitlyn Michele]

Maybe we should ALL have added to the list instead of questioning the list!!! Do ya think????

That'a agreat point.. My theory (i admit perhaps influenced by my own experience) is that many of us are highly influenced by Shame....not guilt but shame...the feeling of WRONGNESS...like i am a wrong person...
the way i feel is wrong, and i am less because of it..

i fight this feeling everyday.. and it caused me all kinds of very stupid, circular and frustrated thinking. and so i think we all come up with these internal definitions about ourselves...it is very difficult to simply exist sometimes when you have a F'd up sense of your own identity!! Especially when we are 5 years old, and unbeknownst to our innocent little heads we are all making decisions that will shape the rest of our lives...some lucky *******s tell mom when they are 5 and they get to transition on Oprah!!!! how lucky and adorable is that little girl??!! Some of us hate our penis to death...some can't look in the mirror, some get obsessed over looking the most feminine or imagine ourselves as women just to enjoy sex.(and feel incredibly ashamed) and others say Screw everybody and transition into a terrible life situation... but others seem to transition successfully and beautifully.. and so when you are challenged on your own definition it causes a lot of difficulties...you may feel left out, you may feel like that other transsexual has a "better" form of transsexuality...i HATE when people spew stuff about "being a true transsexual"...wtf am i ? a false transsexual??@?!! thats what goes through my mind (just being honest)....

so i say just have a real long list like bobi jean says...i am working to being ok with myself and whatever i define myself by....however, i can tell you what is happening during transtion...I find it impossible to define myself...i don't think about it anymore!!! its like what my sister said when i disclosed this...She said.."i don't get it, I don't know what it means to be a woman, how can you know??" now that's what i think...all the why's and question's are gone...thats what transition did for me...I am very interested if other transitioning girls have thought this way...im curious about whether in the end, if we get to transition we all get to basically the same place...I dont know the answer to this..

also, sometimes i feel quite masculine, but now i just don't let it bother me...it doesnt bother me at all....

i just am me. and being ok with that is what its all about...my life is much more difficult, there is alot of physical pain (an incredible amount frankly), and my life is much more risky in every way (safety, finances, relationships, health) but i would do it all over again in a heartbeat..

if you feel a certain way about your own definintion, transitioning? cd? pre op? part time bi gendered? even the dreaded autogynphelia? not trans anymore, just a woman?? these are all totally valid and normal things to think based on all the trans people i've met...if you are good with it...i suggest there is every reason to tell others your story but there is no reason to argue about it...

if you are not good with yourself , and trying to get good with yourself... i think its great to read these lists and posts to get insight into what others are thinking...HOW OTHERS ARE COPING with their own difficulties ...and what you have to GAIN and LOSE in transition...i've read every post carefully for years, and i got alot out of it...

...there,....i got that off my chest...sorry about all the blah blah blah..but i just enjoy writing about stuff...if nothing else, it helps me to write about it!!

[ReineD]

Maybe we should ALL have added to the list instead of questioning the list!!! Do ya think????

[Loni]

here is another pigeonhole. a cross dresser that wants to remain a male, but is thinking about having a couple three items removed due to non functioning.
and just so she can fit into jeans better.

[Rianna Humble]

I went back to read the ORIGINAL post again..
nowhere did I read or see anything about the post being "all inclusive" simply a list of the variations known to the poster. Maybe we should ALL have added to the list instead of questioning the list!!! Do ya think????

I don't think that just adding to the list would have helped the original poster understand that TG is an umbrella term.

I do think that criticism of the poster only reflects badly on the critic first and the rest of us second.

[JessicaNK]

Hello all ... newbie to these forums here.

I believe there are many different variants of us. From a very early age (I'd say about 4) I knew something was wrong. From age 4 through about 10 it was always in my mind this feeling that I should have been a girl, but I kept it to myself. As a kid I did constantly question "who was better off boys or girls" and I didn't really act on these female feelings until after age 10 when it took off, mostly wearing my mother's and older sister's clothes in the middle of the night while the family slept or while I was home alone. Well one day I got caught wearing the clothes and the #### hit the fan with the parents and my slightly older brother and sister. I left home at a young age for more reasons than just wanting to wear women's clothing and have been dressing up ever since. But it is more than just a cross dressing thing for me. For me, I can tell you from the bottom of my heart that there is a girl inside of me who had this cruel trick played on her. If I could transition seamlessly where society would not second guess my gender I would not hestitate. There is no doubt in my mind I would be happier as a woman. But not only did life play a cruel trick on me giving me male genitals at birth, but puberty played an even crueler trick on me. If I could have transition before puberty kicked in, I may have had a chance. But I developed a very male body and voice and I just can't see how I could pull it off ... grrrrr.

Throughout life I have always used sports as a way to mask my transgendered feelings. Inside I am a girl, but to the big bad world the external facade I presented was that of a ferocious athlete. It's as if I took out my frustrations for my not being a girl against my opponents on the athletic field (and of course I also just like to compete). Anyway I am older now (mid 40s) and my desire to be female never stops. When I see an attractive woman my first reaction isn't "she is hot, I want to do her". No my first reaction is "why couldn't I have been like her". These feeling will be with me until the day I die (or come down with something like altzeimers). But unfortunately because of my very male physic, I can't see myself dying as a post op female. When I do die, I am pretty sure I will still have my male genitilia. Damn I hate those things, though I do use them to pleasure myself (they are good for something).

After all these years I have a decent relationship with my family, but we don't talk about my transgendered condition. I keep it to myself though I have written a letter for them in case I was to prematurely die. I would not call my family a hardcore religious family, but most of them are Christians and despite their failed indoctrination efforts on me (they know I am agnostic) and I will not be joining them in their Christian heaven, so they do treat me as bit of a black sheep. I don't know if there is or is not a God (the universe is far too big for my comprehension) but if there is a God, why did this God play such a cruel trick on me? This God gave me the wrong tools. I should have been an ins'y not an outs'y. Sometimes wonder if my family talks about me behind my back because how can they forget I was caught wearing women's clothing on more than one occasion. I have had girlfriends, I have had sex, but I never found the right girl to marry. As much as I love and respect women, it's never been easy being a man to the woman in your life when inside the man secretly wishes he was the woman. After all the vast majority of women want their men to be men, not women.

I know I am not alone, but I really don't think there is a "one size fits all" when it comes to being transgendered. If only my parents had allowed me to transition into a girl before puberty set in and ravaged my body, maybe I would look better in women's clothing now. If only I had not been an athlete trying to compensate for my inner terror maybe I would look better in women's clothing to this day. If only I had been born into the female gender, then my soul would not have been terrorized all these years. But with all that said ... I am still grateful that I have been given the gift of life. I have done some cool things in all my years, even if I was doing them in the wrong body.

[Louise C]

Jessica! Thankyou for posting on this thread!

I am also fairly new around these parts of the forum and wasn't sure if i wanted to join in this particular thread even though it interested me immensely. Your initial experiences of how you felt are almost an exact mirror image of my own, One of the things i used to think was "why couldn't i have been her?". It has been one of the most painful questions throughout. I initially came to this forum a few years back to get support and found that many men transition well into their later years.
I couldn't handle the thought that i had lost my twenties and thirties to being a man and not lived as woman, so much so that i just couldn't carry on. I really thought i would never be able to transition and that i was too old. Now, though into my forties i realise that it is never too late and am feeling quite hopeful again. I still have massive fears and doubts about myself,- i'm too tall, still look like a man, feet and hands too big etc. so i started visiting this forum again to look for a bit of support as i live in a very small community and although i have some supportive friends and family, feel totally alone most of the time.
I was quite shocked and upset by some of the posts on this thread, although thats probably to do with the hormones. :-) so didn't really feel that i could post something as it may not be well received. Somedays, today for example, i feel so fragile that any criticism destroys my confidence. Other days i will slug it out with the nastiest of them.

I agree with Kaitlyn that it would have been good to add to the list. Here's my addition:

CD at 7, Hetero TS at 14, and now "Not so sure, it will depend on the person, Preop TS at 43". (not sure if that covers it all either!)

[Rianna Humble]

Thank you both - Jessica and Louise - for getting this thread back on track. You are both right that there are very many variants amongst the transgendered community, but we all share at least one thing in common - we go beyond the traditional binary gender stereotype.

Jessica, at your age I too felt that I could never transition because there were too many things going against me including a voice one octave below the male bass voice so I carried on with the pretence of being a man for another decade or so before I finally became so depressed that I had to choose between transition and death. Please do not let that happen to you. When I finally sought professional help, I said to my doctor that I knew I would never be a beautiful woman, but it was better to end my days as an ugly woman than to live another day as a man. Now, people who knew me before tell me that I am pretty (one said beautiful, but I think that was polite bs) and that I look much more relaxed and confident than I ever did as a man. My voice still needs a shed-load of work, but I am accepted as a woman even by those who have no reason to pretend.

Louise, one thing that I believe you and I share in common is that we spent so long feeling ugly because we were in the wrong body that it has harmed our ability to see ourselves as others see us. I am still trying to learn that other people see a pretty(ish) older woman when they look at me. If I can learn that, then so can you. When we look in the mirror, it is difficult to look beyond the negative self image we have had for so many years, but the truth is out there somewhere - we just have to learn where to look for it.

[shesadvl]

Maybe we should ALL have added to the list instead of questioning the list!!! Do ya think????

[GaleWarning]

Maybe we should ALL have added to the list instead of questioning the list!!! Do ya think????

OK ... I suggest HB ... no, not a pencil ... a human being!
Can we all agree to this?
(See post #51 above)