IMO there is no difference between lying about the cding and the drinking etc, the depth of hurt will be dependent on the length of deceit. You cannot liken cding to wanting a night out with the lads, it is down to the frequency, the drinking may happen only once but in most cases not all, the cding is a heck of a lot more often.Originally Posted by Eryn
Care to elaborate?
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
Speaking for myself, Sandra, I don't think any of your posts have been harsh. You simply have a different point of view, and you've expressed it well.
Very well said Heather.Jamie'ss GG said she is very protective of the GG's here. Well so am I. I do not like it when a GG comes here for advice or the share the way she feels and it istrivializedd or she is told to get over it. Seems that I can clearly see how the news of a husband being a CD can turn her world upside down. It simply is not anything she ever felt would be a part of her life and as much as we don't like it, the general public thinks it's sick or weird. So it's understandable that a wife that had neverdealtt with gender issues might feel the same way. I for one sure would like to see a little more empathyto wardss our most welcome and respected GG members. Many of the GG's that came here and have been here for awhile, now have a better understanding of us. They now know how hard it has to be for a man to tell his wife, especially if it is after many years of hiding it. Let's give them credit for several things. ONE: They came here to learn TWO: They care enough about their husband or SO to at least try to understand. Three: They shared their pain, there feelings and emotions with us. This alone may help one of our members to come out to his wife or SO. So I bow to our GG members and embrace them as being very special for simply being here.
Last edited by BRANDYJ; 06-06-2011 at 06:11 PM. Reason: spell check
My OP was in response to a thread in which a CD said that his wife had just found out and that she was not taking it very well. The responses he got were along the lines of: "You lied, and you betrayed her trust, so what did you expect? You've done a Very Bad Thing, and you deserve everything you get. If you crawl on your belly enough, maybe she will forgive you." I didn't find that very helpful or supportive, to put it mildly. It's like condemning Jews for trying to pass as Christian during the days of pogroms and ghettos. It's like condemning blacks for trying to pass as white in the segregationist South. Call them liars and accuse them of betraying their loved ones for trying to live a life free of oppression.
Of course, CDs are that way by choice, right? Choices they made somewhere between the ages of 1 and 13? It's just a behavior that they could choose to stop, and that's exactly what they believe themselves. They're going to get control over it any day now. It's not really who they are. They'll get it under control, and no one will be hurt by it. So why tell?
I respect and value GGs who respect and value us. Beating us over the head with the lies we told to protect ourselves is not a way to earn my respect.
That's really the issue. And the reason that we lied is the same reason that they are so terrified of anyone finding out what they married.
Apples and oranges and your comparing them is highly offensive in my opinion. You are talking major oppression verses a singular case where you hide something from someone you supposedly love.
We are talking about hiding a part of your life from your spouse because YOU are afraid of what your spouse my do. don't even think you can use that analogy in context of societal oppression in our case. This is not about a life or death situation. It is not about losing your human or civil rights. It is really low to compare that with not telling your wife you like women's clothing and then sneaking around to do it.
It is the sneaking around and hiding it like a child that really makes it a lie. People here are saying that not telling is not a lie but an omission. If you had sex with 400 people before you got married and then didn't have sex with anyone but your wife after marriage, that would be an omission that may be allowed. If you had sex with 400 people and 200 of those were AFTER the wedding that would be a lie. If you marry a person so that you can stay in the country illegally and don't tell them...that is a lie. If you married a Christian and you were Jewish and you didn't tell them during the pogroms and you put their life at risk because of it, that is a lie. You would be putting yourself before another.
When you keep this a secret and the other person has built a life on what they think they see and know about you, you are effecting their lives as much or more than yours. It is selfish and arrogant. There is "equity" in relationships. Things that emotionally people put into these relationships, investments if you will, that by not disclosing things that could effect the relationship can cause it to fail. It sounds clinical and businesslike but relationships are built on trust and honesty. Look at the thread about how long people have been married. There are relationships of 20-40 years there. They have a lot at stake.
We are not supportive? Pot meet kettle. You don't trust or support your wife when you allow them to put in years and years while you hide your dressing. Think about how they would feel 20 years down the road. What else did you hide? Also think about what they "know" about transgendered people. Granted what they think they know is wrong in many cases but you don't even allow them the ability to learn.
If you want to compare our spouses with historical figures you don't have to go very far back when gays married because it was expected and was a good cover for them. But is wasn't fair to the spouse when they found out later.
Is not telling a lie? Well it ain't telling the truth and in a black and white world you decide what it is.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Someone said it's just clothes and makeup. How is that a big deal?
Well, here's the break down.
Existentially, yes. You're right. It's just clothes and makeup.
When you start hiding it in a relationship, however, then psychologically it becomes a double life in the eyes of your spouse
If you're capable of living a double life, you're obviously a good liar and have shown a capacity to lie extensively and at length to those you love.
That's how it's more than just clothes and makeup.
Conversely, someone who takes the initiative to communicate with their spouse reveals many positive attributes.
What double life? In my case I had, and continue to have a single life where I occasionally, and out of her notice, wore clothes and makeup. No lying was needed, as I limited my CDing to times when it did not affect my spouse at all. She had nothing to ask about and I didn't mention it.
When the compulsion got to the point where it was affecting me emotionally, and therefore affecting our marriage, I decided to have "the talk." Thank goodness my wife was capable of evaluating the situation reasonably and that she didn't give credence to those who seem to be focused on punishment and tearing marriages apart.
So, by your standards, I qualify both as a good liar and as having many positive attributes!
Eryn
"These girls have the most beautiful dresses. And so do I! How about that!" [Kaylee, in Firefly] [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
"What do you care what other people think?" [Arlene Feynman, to her husband Richard]
"She's taller than all the women in my family, combined!" [Howard, in The Big Bang Theory]
"Tall, tall girl. The woman could hunt geese with a rake!" [Mary Cooper, in The Big Bang Theory]
Really? You don't consider that what transgender people experience qualifies as major oppression?
Right.
It's about being able to live a normal life, or being rejected and ostracized.
You understand that by telling one person, you make it possible for your secret to become generally known, right? Especially if that person freaks out, calls you a weirdo, and then goes around telling her friends about you. That's a worst case scenario, but it happens. How many years do you have to be with a person before you can believe without a doubt that she won't react that way?
So in addition to being an "angry bitter little man," now I'm low.
Some people have said that, but I was not one of them. It is lying. At the very least, it will eventually involve one in a lie when she comes home and asks, "So how'd you spend your day?" and you have to tell her something other than the truth.
Telling the soldiers, "No, there are no Jews hiding in my attic," is also lying, btw.
Oh wait, I can't use that analogy. It's low.
Granted, but everything they see is the truth. It's not the complete truth, but it's not a lie either. It did not change who I am in any fundamental way. I was still the man who had been there with her through all kinds of rough times. I had been her shelter, and her shoulder to cry on. I was the guy who was in the delivery room when each of our two children were born. I was still me, and she had no problem seeing that. Zero.
You're half right. I did not trust her. There was no one on the planet that I trusted with that secret. Before I met my wife, I was seeing another girl with whom I was madly in love. I would have done anything to win her. One night she asked me "What's your deepest darkest secret?" I told her flat out: "No one gets that." You see, I was TERRIFIED of ANYONE ever finding it out.
How many times does that have to be repeated?
As far as supporting her, you need to let my wife be the judge of whether I have supported her. You're not qualified to say.
Now you're comparing apples and oranges. I did not marry someone to whom I was not sexually attracted in order to hide my true sexual preference. I enjoy sex with women--a lot--and I particularly enjoy sex with my wife, a lot. As man and woman. So there's been no lying or fakery there.
You definitely win that point, as far as I'm concerned, but you win it against someone else.
You're too smart not to understand all the reasons why people lie, and I can't believe that you're so unfeeling as not to have any sympathy for those reasons. Understand, I'm not talking about what we should advise people to do in the future. I'm all in favor of fessing up before marriage. I'm talking about how we should treat people who have lied. Whether we should judge them harshly or sympathetically, and also whether we should encourage SOs to get stuck in that condemnatory attitude. I don't see how it can help the situation at all.
However, I AM surprised you're still alive and that your thread is also, after 2 days here!
U can't keep doing the same things over and over and expect to enjoy life to the max. When u try new things, even if they r out of your comfort zone, u may experience new excitement and growth that u never expected.
Challenge yourself and pursue your passions! When your life clock runs out, you'll have few or NO REGRETS!
I don't agree that it's just clothes and makeup. There's also a psychological component, that element of femininity that we have inside of us. Ironically, I think that part is hidden in plain sight, and manifests itself in the very personality traits that they value in us.
Only if that double life actually requires you to lie extensively. In my case, it required a good bit of hiding, but I think I only had to tell an outright lie twice in 13 years. I had been scrupulously honest about everything else, so my wife didn't find it difficult to understand that there was a difference between hiding an embarrassing secret and being a compulsive liar.If you're capable of living a double life, you're obviously a good liar and have shown a capacity to lie extensively and at length to those you love.
lol! Thanks, Sherry!
However, I AM surprised you're still alive and that your thread is also, after 2 days here!
Well being a good liar doesn't make you a bad person..What double life? In my case I had, and continue to have a single life where I occasionally, and out of her notice, wore clothes and makeup. No lying was needed, as I limited my CDing to times when it did not affect my spouse at all. She had nothing to ask about and I didn't mention it.
When the compulsion got to the point where it was affecting me emotionally, and therefore affecting our marriage, I decided to have "the talk." Thank goodness my wife was capable of evaluating the situation reasonably and that she didn't give credence to those who seem to be focused on punishment and tearing marriages apart.
So, by your standards, I qualify both as a good liar and as having many positive attributes!
i think if you're acting like someone else, going by another name, dressing in different clothes, and keeping it all a secret, that is a double life.
idk how ppl could feel otherwise, but everyone has their own ideas and perceptions
not to split hairs, i was saying it shows a 'capacity' to lie extensively, not that you've actually done it.Only if that double life actually requires you to lie extensively. In my case, it required a good bit of hiding, but I think I only had to tell an outright lie twice in 13 years. I had been scrupulously honest about everything else, so my wife didn't find it difficult to understand that there was a difference between hiding an embarrassing secret and being a compulsive liar.
but anyone that can keep a secret for that long probably has some capacity to keep a lie going on for a long time too. just my opinion
No it's far more then just clothes! Anyone that says that is fooling themselves... or lying to themselves.Sophie86;2512278]I don't agree that it's just clothes and makeup. There's also a psychological component, that element of femininity that we have inside of us. Ironically, I think that part is hidden in plain sight, and manifests itself in the very personality traits that they value in us.
I agree with you Sophie. I think there is a big difference in lying and having to hide something out of fear of either losing her or hurting her. Of course that hiding can and probably does lead to a whole bunch of little lies over time. I know I am blessed in that I never had to hide it from 2 wives and my present SO. I told them early on and had no problems because of it. I don't think I could ever be close to someone and have to hide it from them. I don't know ho those that hide it for years can do it. Hard for me to even think about.Only if that double life actually requires you to lie extensively. In my case, it required a good bit of hiding, but I think I only had to tell an outright lie twice in 13 years. I had been scrupulously honest about everything else, so my wife didn't find it difficult to understand that there was a difference between hiding an embarrassing secret and being a compulsive liar.
lol! Thanks, Sherry!
One thing Sophie said that I do not agree with and would like to address -
it is when women lie by not mentioning that they poop and it smells really bad.
Ok, women do not poop. I like to pretend they don't and I am not going to let anyone ruin that fantasy. :D
It takes a true Erin to be a pain in the assatar.
nope not in the United States or most the western countries. Do you live in a country where wearing women's clothes will get you arrested, sent to prison or killed by the governing group?
Your rules, you made them, you were the one who hid and didn't try to live your life. You let another's perceived reaction control how you lived. No one said you couldn't, you assumed you couldn't because you were afraid of the outcome. The outcome that would not have been an option if you had told the truth before you signed the contractIt's about being able to live a normal life, or being rejected and ostracized.
You don't, you do it before you live with them. You knew before you married (evidently) how she felt and you made a choice, you chose to give up the freedom you wanted to hide. This isn't a guessing game you bought into, it is your life and if you didn't know you should have found out. How many people think they can change the other? and how many have?You understand that by telling one person, you make it possible for your secret to become generally known, right? Especially if that person freaks out, calls you a weirdo, and then goes around telling her friends about you. That's a worst case scenario, but it happens. How many years do you have to be with a person before you can believe without a doubt that she won't react that way?
No one said you were angry bitter or little.So in addition to being an "angry bitter little man," now I'm low.
You are correct, it is a lie and it was done to save a life. Their life versus your life. And it is still a bad analogy when your life was never in danger. Your comfort maybe, your pride, maybe but doubtful your wife would have threatened your life.Telling the soldiers, "No, there are no Jews hiding in my attic," is also lying, btw.
Oh wait, I can't use that analogy. It's low.
I am guessing you meant she didn't see that and that is her failure. There are several posts by me which make that very point. Love doesn't make judgements. Love doesn't make conditions. What many think of as love now is nothing more than control and comfort. I won't defend her if she didn't love your soul. If you really meant she had "no problem seeing that" then I guess I am confused...she accepted you and that would be a good thingI was still the man who had been there with her through all kinds of rough times. I had been her shelter, and her shoulder to cry on. I was the guy who was in the delivery room when each of our two children were born. I was still me, and she had no problem seeing that. Zero.
Nice relationship. See "love" comment above. and in regard to this, you wanted her to trust you and then felt betrayed when she found your "secret"? Trust is a two way street.You're half right. I did not trust her.see madly in "love". If you loved her and she loved you then you would not be terrified. When you don't believe in yourself, you won't believe anyone one else would believe in you either.There was no one on the planet that I trusted with that secret. Before I met my wife, I was seeing another girl with whom I was madly in love. I would have done anything to win her. One night she asked me "What's your deepest darkest secret?" I told her flat out: "No one gets that." You see, I was TERRIFIED of ANYONE ever finding it out.
in a way yes except they married without considering how the woman would feel about their lack of attraction. They in affect stole that person's life to protect their own. Their were many who actually did tell the woman, and as long as both parties agree, no foul.Now you're comparing apples and oranges.yes there was. You really don't see how you took time from her life?I did not marry someone to whom I was not sexually attracted in order to hide my true sexual preference. I enjoy sex with women--a lot--and I particularly enjoy sex with my wife, a lot. As man and woman. So there's been no lying or fakery there.
Most here are empathetic, most have sympathy for your feeling, many have sympathy for the offended party. If you are looking for someone to give you absolution, you are in the wrong place. If you want someone to say "I am sorry you had to go through that" you have plenty but if you want someone to say, "We are sorry and your spouse has no right to treat you that way" not gonna happen. You got burned, sorry it hurt.You're too smart not to understand all the reasons why people lie, and I can't believe that you're so unfeeling as not to have any sympathy for those reasons. Understand, I'm not talking about what we should advise people to do in the future. I'm all in favor of fessing up before marriage. I'm talking about how we should treat people who have lied. Whether we should judge them harshly or sympathetically, and also whether we should encourage SOs to get stuck in that condemnatory attitude. I don't see how it can help the situation at all.
We all know how it was before. We were told what we do is bad and wrong. I'll give an apple for an orange that 20 years ago hiding what your are was the only thing you could do. So comparing now to then is difficult. I was actually jealous that gays could go out and be seen and because I wasn't gay (in my mind...not the society) I could not. I don't remember when your marriage was. You will get tons of sympathy from people who went through what you did to try and appear "normal". But things have changed. Not seeing how this could hurt your spouse and why they would react in a negative way won't get you sympathy. It is not totally your fault. So you share the blame and you get some sympathy.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I'm backin' Sophie the full 86 times. In the best of all cosmic grains of sand these various, & occasionally thoughtful mentations put to pen would be nothing more than the delicate nectar burps of a butterfly. BUT... someone has been eating only lavender & roses. Which leads to ones scatological emissions not stinking, unless you are a ruminant. I don't date cows.Sorted.
Huntress
I live in a country where you can lose your job, your friends, and the love of your family. I grew up at a time when rednecks thought it was fun to go to the local gay bar and beat up the drag queens. I had a father who used to tell me derisively, "You might make a man before your mother does."
To give you some context, I was born in 1963.
You've made some wrong assumptions about my situation in your replies. I realize you won't have followed all my past posts, and know my complete story, so let me give you a quick summary. I married in '87 and came out to my wife in '01. When I say that she had no problem seeing that I was still me, I mean that she was able to accept me for who I was without tears, and without any angst over "lost years." We are still together and approaching our 24th anniversary. That's why when I see SOs wringing their hands over The Betrayal, I don't understand their reaction. It is the complete opposite of what I got from my wife.
Yes, someone did. Go back to page one and scroll down.No one said you were angry bitter or little.
No, my wife would not have threatened my life. You're missing the point. Gays, and TGs do get beaten up and murdered. They put up with a lot of harrassment from narrow minded people. I saw how effeminate guys were treated when I was growing up. It wasn't just a matter of a little "discomfort". Things are light years better today, but they are still not great, as evidenced by the rash of suicides we have had in recent years. Do you think those kids killed themselves because of their own independent judgment of what they were, or do you think it happened because of the message they were constantly getting from the people around them. Do you think pride is optional in a person's life? I don't. People need to feel proud of themselves. Protecting one's pride from outside battering has important survival value.And it is still a bad analogy when your life was never in danger. Your comfort maybe, your pride, maybe but doubtful your wife would have threatened your life.
You still don't get it. You don't understand being so afraid of exposure that you're unwilling to trust ANYONE with your secret.Nice relationship.
No, I don't, and neither does she. That's not at all how she looks at it. In fact, she has said before that if I had told her when we were younger it might have freaked her out, and caused her to run the other way, so she is GLAD that I kept the secret until she was mature enough to accept me. I am not trying to offer that as a reason for everyone to lie. It's a unique situation. I am just pointing out that there are other ways for a SO to look at the situation in retrospect.You really don't see how you took time from her life?
I don't need anyone's absolution. My lying was between me and my wife, and her opinion is the only one that counts. What I am trying to do is point out that we could try and be a little more understanding towards the guys who come here with their stories about being found out, and not rip them a new one for having lied.If you are looking for someone to give you absolution, you are in the wrong place.
How about just not coming down on them for lying, and no telling them, sneeringly, "You got burned, sorry it hurt."If you want someone to say "I am sorry you had to go through that" you have plenty but if you want someone to say, "We are sorry and your spouse has no right to treat you that way" not gonna happen.
I understand that they have to be prepared to rebuild trust. By all means, explain that to them. Just do it with a little more kindness and sympathy for the reasons they felt it necessary to lie.
Twenty years ago, I was 28 years old and had been married four years. So are you now acknowledging that hiding what I was was the only thing I could do?We all know how it was before. We were told what we do is bad and wrong. I'll give an apple for an orange that 20 years ago hiding what your are was the only thing you could do. So comparing now to then is difficult.
Sure, for younger people. But many of the guys coming here have been married for 20-40 years. They started lying at a time when, as you say, "hiding what you are was the only thing you could do." Can we give them just a little sympathy, and maybe not so much with the judging harshly?But things have changed.
I'm afraid you still don't get it THAT WIFES ARE PEOPLE TOO with REAL feelings , real HEARTS and they deserve to go into a marriage knowing the person they are marrying. What is sooo hard to understand about ?
Lying hideing , deceipt is not ok, now or then.
And when this wife is no longer young and able to start over or CHOOSE to stay , some of you decide NOW is the time to "spring it on her " Come on , I've read that .......WOW , that's real love ,,, NOT.
Presh GG
So you and your spouse have told all your family and friends then? I think that's wonderful. It's certainly the ideal way to go. A lot of couples are afraid of the repercussions, but kudos to you for having the courage to do that.
One can always make the choice to leave. It may not be easy, but it can be done. A woman should never feel like she is trapped in a loveless marriage with a defective husband, or vice versa.
Obviously I cannot answer for Presh, but we have told family and friends. We told them when we was ready, when it may have had an impact on their lives....and don't anyone say that we lied and kept it a secret, it had nothing to do with them, we told them because we wanted to to.
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
That's awesome. I've been on the fence about this, wondering just how much I want to come out with people, especially family. My wife is also a bit nervous about people at her work finding out. Her bosses are kind of conservative, and she's not sure how they would react. In the meantime, I've had to dissemble (i.e., lie) about why my body hair has disappeared, why I would dress up like a girl two Halloweens in a row, and why I am wearing nail polish... I guess if I kept everything completely hidden, I wouldn't have to actually lie, so long as I didn't make any mistakes. I would still be leading a double life though.
Sophie86,
What is the real issue here?
This must deeply hurt and effect you or you wouldn't have kept going on in this thread....this must be a very personal painful topic for you.
I want to apologize for calling you a bitter, angry little man.
The stuff you wrote initially about gg's pooping and periods I found sublimally hateful to women...I didn't like it.
But there must be something deeper going on here....
I am asking you...why does this hurt you so much?
[SIZE="4"]Momarie[/SIZE]
What an incredible thread. A couple of thoughts:
1) If a transgendered lifestyle was completely accepted in this country or elsewhere as routine, this thread wouldn't exist. The whole issue revolves around fear, and that certainly is oppression at some level. If none of us was closeted or felt it was essential to keep our transgenderism private, telling a potential spouse would not be an issue at all. The issues are 1) rejection, and 2) exposure. These two issues come right up against the issue of being honest with your potential spouse. They are diametrically opposed. Is if fair to keep this deeply-felt need of transgenderism from your potential spouse? I personally feel it is not fair. This issue does not need comparisons to other issues. This one, by and of itself, is important enough to stand alone as something that a potential spouse needs to know about us before agreeing to spend a lifetime together.
2) I do think that it is easier in 2011 than it was in, say, 1970 to explain transgenderism to a prospective spouse. I also think that it was, in 1970, common to believe that the crossdressing would stop after being married. There just was not the information available then as there is now, and I give a lot of slack to those who married 30 or 40 years ago and eventually come to the reality of transgenderism being here to stay, or even getting stronger with age. It is a very difficult situation and what our sisters need in this case is our support, and so do their SOs.
3) Lastly, life changes. Something that was not important 30 years ago can become important as time goes on. The key there is communication, but that requires coming to grips with ourselves and relaying that set of thoughts to our SOs constantly. This is hard, but it is important.
In general, this whole issue keeps coming back to the secretive nature of our transgenderism, and of the lack of acceptance in the world at large. As a result, the onus is on us to come to grips with our selves and our lifestyles. Unless we plan to live alone, our SOs must eventually come to understand who we are. This has to always be better sooner rather than later. Whether we give it the label of "lie" or not doesn't matter. What matters is that we should do everything in our power to build and maintain the loving trust of our spouse, as they do in us.
I cannot answer for Sophie, but, why does it hurt so much? Two words- Guilt and shame! Society, and women are taught to despise a man wearing womens clothes, and not respect them. One thing is missing in this discussion. COMPASSION on both sides! A man may hide his hobby from his wife, out of fear of devastating her. A gg needs to have compassion on a mate , who is emotionally and mentally struggling with this "forbidden habit". Somehow, both parties need to have compassion, and education and understanding.
Sophie, yeah we all do stuff that our partners don't like. I have been married zillions of years and the reality is that I fart, snore etc.. because she tells me about it... she does.. I don't tell her about it. (I tried once!) ipso facto - she doesn't - I do. I have a bad throat/ear infection this weekend and I am the bad guy because I woke her at 6am snoring - like I couldn't breath any other way... so what do you really want here?
I am in her eyes a male stereotyope - I am supposed to like football, get pissed with my mates (but not on my own), climb on roofs and fix things and generally make the world happen, and of course bring on good pay checks and be able to fund all the emergencies...oh and by the way sex is off now because she has grown out of it, but just carry on with the usual day job, why is lack of sex a problem for you? It isn't for me so... When I got married I was a knight in shining armour... oh well! Except that she doesn't like alphamales until I am not one and then I am to blame for not being an alpha male...
So.. the last last thing she wants is to discover the CD side of my life... and when she does... the paranoia strikes... I am no longer the man she has come to hate, I am even worse... I have deceived her for years...
Jeez... I know this is a serious thread, but I have just talked myself into another world.... You cannot deceive unless you know... you cannot lie until you know... and what you know is not necessarily what others know... even when you know it.
Kaz xx
__________________________________________________ ____________
This Woman Within is Flying without Wings
I have stated the real issue. If you've read all my responses, then you should know that it is just this: I saw a thread in which a CD was getting verbally beat up for having lied to his wife, and it irritated me. Thinking back to how calmly my wife responded to the revelation, I wondered why other women get so upset. It occurred to me that obsessing over the lying was one way to direct focus away from whether they are capable of accepting the CDing itself. They can just say it's because of the lying, and then they don't have to admit that it's really because they are disgusted by the CDing itself. I believe the woman has every right to simply say that CDing is a deal-breaker for her, and walk away from the marriage. I don't see anything productive, though, in having this intermediate stage in which she excoriates him for the years of deception, and he bends over backwards trying to apologize, only to find out that in the end, she just can't accept living with a crossdresser.
I can even understand having some trust issues, but I can't understand not being able to understand why we kept it a secret. The reason we lie to our spouses is the same reason that we lie to everyone else. It's the same reason why we have fought and struggled not to be what we are. It's also the same reason that, once they find out, our spouses don't want to share the news with the rest of the world--at least, not if they plan on staying with us.
I have a BA in Philosophy, which means that at one time I actually thought I wanted to argue for a living. Sometimes I still enjoy it, but I haven't yet found a way to make it pay the bills. If I had a penny for every word I've typed in this thread, though, I could go out and buy a new dress.This must deeply hurt and effect you or you wouldn't have kept going on in this thread....
As I've said, the lying was never an issue for my wife. So no, it's not a personal painful topic for me.this must be a very personal painful topic for you.
Thank you.I want to apologize for calling you a bitter, angry little man.
I'm sorry. I was really just trying to be humorous. There was stuff in there about the things that guys do also, so I thought I was being even-handed. I didn't intend to single out the GGs, and I regret that you took it as me being hateful.The stuff you wrote initially about gg's pooping and periods I found sublimally hateful to women...I didn't like it.
It doesn't. I just felt really bad for that poor guy who was getting lambasted by everyone when what he needed were some kind words.I am asking you...why does this hurt you so much?
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