Question to CDs only, from Anonymous GG

[Rogina B]

Here is my shallow but honest answer. I'll take all the good and leave the bad of playing the female role.I feel that I have used up all my "boy fun tickets",so I'll try to use the rest of my "girl fun tickets"up before I get too old. It is the "power of the Pussycat" that intriques me..Women don't need men the same way men need women.They have an unspoken "power" over boys. Rogina is as close as I can get to having that power. I can't be a woman because I was born a man and at best have mixed instincts and traits. So, I will live my life in my own way and spend as much time as possible in Rogina's personna.This is what makes me happiest,and another birthday has passed. I'll play the girl.

[suchacutie]

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman

To me, this is the crux of the issue. When Tina first appeared in August of 2005, she knew almost nothing about being a woman. Heck, she didn't even know she existed for more than a few days! However, once it was clear that there was a feminine spark, the investigation was moved to full-speed ahead.

Luckily Tina and I have a full-time mentor in these matters, my wife! For the last 6 years we have explored and discussed every aspect of femininity and what it's like to be a woman, including what it's like to grow up as a girl! These conversations continue to this day and although new topics arise less often, they still do come up and every topic is fascinating. Obviously we talked about all the "trappings" of being a woman so that Tina could emerge from our imaginations into a real person who could then experience the world from a feminine point of view. There was the topic of language and voice and how communication changes when you don't have the "basso" part of the voice to bring to bear, effecting both the use of words and the choice of words along with inflections and pitch. Then there was all the psychological and sociological issues that, as a man, I had never experienced or even knew existed. The simplest was probably not trying to "solve" every point of a discussion, but just discuss and even bi*ch a little without solving the problem. Seeing the world from a feminine perspective, and the differences in socialization when growing up as one gender or the other provoke fascinating and very informative discussions.

With all that said, it then came down to letting Tina "loose" to find out who she is. It's one thing to talk about issues and quite another to experience life from a feminine point of view. This is the adventure that brings it all into focus, and will be ongoing forever.

So, do I know what it takes to be a woman? I'll never know perfectly, but the more I work at it the better I begin to understand (so my wife tells me). It's a lifetime journey and I'm delighted to have taken as many steps along that journey as I already have, and I'm very much looking forward to more and more steps!

[Marissa333]

There are 4 pages of responses to this thread now. I don't suppose the anonymous gg could now respond with her thoughts, and possibly a brief description on her situation which led to asking this question?

[ReineD]

There are 4 pages of responses to this thread now. I don't suppose the anonymous gg could now respond with her thoughts, and possibly a brief description on her situation which led to asking this question?

She's working on it.

[Rachel Flowers]

She's working on it.

That'll be good; set some minds at rest!

[Georgina]

I wear skirts and dresses because I love the clothes and underwear. I do not want to be a woman and anyway how can I be. I realise that the feelings that I get, from wearing these clothes, will not be the same as women get from wearing the same clothes. I don't believe that women should have any more clothing choices than men and any add ons, such as makeup, wigs, etc. should be available to both.

[Asche]

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

[Eryn]

She's working on it.

I'm looking forward to hearing what she has to say. I sense that her question was asked from a position of some distress and I hope that our responses were helpful to her.

[TxKimberly]

Hmmm . . . you know I have to wonder if I should leave this one alone because my answer can be a bit dark . . .

After my mother and father were divorced, I had to live with my father for a year or so when I was around four years old. My father was a raging alcoholic and every once in a while he liked to come home reeking of alcohol and beat my step mother to a bleeding a pulp. One day when he slammed in the front door, she hid my step sister and I under the dinning room table and did her best to protect us even as she was beaten so bad she couldn't open her eyes.
Yes, I know what it really means to be a woman.

My grandmother and my mother (who was still on crutches from her latest hip and spine operation) storming into my fathers home to rescue me and take me back home with them. My tiny grandmother getting right up in my fathers face and loudly telling him that she absolutely would kill him if he tried to stop us from leaving. My father backed down because he knew way down deep that my grandmother wasn't kidding or exaggerating.
Yep, I know what it really means to be a woman.

My mother and grandmother both working as waitresses and as a hostess long hard hours to make a home for the five of us in a small mobile home. Tiny mobile home, very little in the way of possessions, and yet I look back on it as one of the best times in my life because we all felt safe and loved,and all for the efforts of my grandmother, mother, and even my big sister.
Yep, I have a clue what it really means to be a woman.

My tiny and frail mother buying a tiny one room cabin way to hell and gone out in the mojave desert and turning it into a home for us, someplace that was ours. A woman born and raised in the city of Los Angeles, barely capable of walking, raising children in a one room cabin with no running water, only a fireplace for heat, and for the first six months with no electricity. All of this, because that's what it took to take care of her children with the means that she had.
Yes anonymous, I know what a woman really is and it has very little to do with the clothes. It's really much closer to being a super hero if you ask me . . .

[docrobbysherry]

She's working on it.

Fine! But, after all our posts, do u think she has any clue as to what we r all about? I'm NOT holding my breath!

After Kim's post, I'd just drift off into the nite if I was her! Kim! My gosh you've come a long way haven't u? Truly inspiring, really!

[Dana7]

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

Asche,

Your commentary here strikes me as openly hostile. It appears that by what you have claimed here that the majority of the responders have missed the boat on the OP's question, but I think you're dead wrong.

The asker of the question made some very clear comments in her original statment and in her followup clarifications, and the CDers here have honestly and candidly attempted to answer her. She asked not for our explanations about whether we think we know "what it is like to be a woman" as you have said here; she asked whether we know what it "takes to be a woman". In order for this woman to understand the motivations and thoughts of those who crossdress, each person has chosen to respond to various comments that the OP made.

Quite obviously no man will EVER know fully what it takes to be a woman. And I think that many of the postings in this thread acknowledge that. But who ever said that CDing was based fully about reality anyways? No CDer here is trying to become a woman. That is for the domain of the TS. And so as a result, CDers by definition are engaging in the realm of fantasy. You interpret this as though it was a despicable act and that it somehow disconnects us from reality. I can assure you, it does not, although it certainly does give us some relief from the hassles and harassments in the real world.

I am sure that every man here can honestly say that they see women, and expecially their SOs for who they are and not for the fantasy they want to have of them. Why you ask? Because the fantasy is NOT about their SO! The fantasy of the CD is about their OWN persona and not the persona of another woman! And further, that fantasy can be as connected or disconnected from the reality of being a woman as the CDer chooses. It is not a matter for judgment by outsiders. It is a personal, individual expression that is modeled after the beauty that is seen in womanhood by each CDer in an abstract sense. Several of the responders have made it quite clear that their CDing is about their own identity and their own perceptions of womanhood. They have stated that their fantasy is about their own identity, not the identity of women in general or the identity of their SO.

And since each CDer is an individual, their fantasy is individualized. But just because it is a fantasy does not make it invalid. Just because it is created using externals like clothes, jewelry and makeup does not mean it has no meaning to the CDer. And just because an SO dislikes the fantasy does not mean that the CDer thinks less of the SO or of the reality of her womanhood.

I have never seen any CDer ignore or deny the experience of their SO and insist on a version that they prefer. I've not seen a CDer lose connection with reality to the extent that their SO "just kind of disappears" into the CDer's fantasy of who they are. That statement is simply ludicrous.

Asche, you've really gone off and made some broad, negative generalizations about CDers, that we are somehow disconnected from reality. I believe the same about the original comments made by the OP on this thread. I can assure you that we CDers who take refuge in a harmless fantasy from time to time "can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy."

At least for myself, I will answer your question: I can honestly say that I can see women, and especially my SO, for who they are, and not for the fantasy I want to have of them. The reason I can say that is because my fantasy is not about my SO or about any woman in particular. I have chosen to view the best of womanhood and emulate it in myself. The fact that it is a fantasy in no way denigrates my view of women and in no way have I lost touch with reality because of it. I love my SO wholeheartedly, I respect her womanhood in her own right, and I participate actively in her personal growth. As proof of this statement, I invite you to read several of my posts where I describe the particular ways I have participated in her personal growth. And if anything, my activity as a CDer has enriched the quality of her life and has improved the quality of her womanhood and her own personal expression of femininity.

And as I posted previously in this thread, I believe that as CDers, "We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows."

[Momarie]

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

Asche understood what I think the OP meant with this thread...she understands with heart and soul.
I see you are taking some heat for your post, you don't deserve it.

[Dana7]

Asche understood what I think the OP meant with this thread...she understands with heart and soul.
I see you are taking some heat for your post, you don't deserve it.

So do you also think as Asche has inferred, that CDers are losing touch with reality?

[Momarie]

I don't think she or I inferred that at all.
I think she had the empathy to understand what the OP intended with the thread.

Please don't derail the thread, if you have to get mad at me, please do so in a pm.

[Dana7]

I don't think she or I inferred that at all.
I think she had the empathy to understand what the OP intended with the thread.

Please don't derail the thread, if you have to get mad at me, please do so in a pm.

I am not mad at you at all, Momarie. Neither am I attempting to derail this thread. I was responding to the comment you made indirectly about my post on this thread, i.e. "taking some heat", and asking you a specific question. I asked that question to you on this thread because I feel that Asche inferred by her post that the majority of the responders had missed the meaning of the OP, and I disagreed. In addition, one of the reasons I was giving Asche "heat" was that I feel that Asche was inferring that CDers had lost touch with reality. If you read my post to Asche you can see that. Yet your comments seemed to endorse her position and you seemed to agree with her about that.

I asked you the question on the thread because you made your comment about my posting on the thread, where it properly belongs. And if you had made your comment about Asche's post to me on a PM, then I would have responded in a PM. I have no private beef with you or anyone on this forum and I was attempting to obtain clarification from you; I don't think that a PM was really the place to address it. I think that is completely fair, don't you?

[Leyna]

Why do I wear a football jersey when I go to a game? Don't I realize how difficult the game is? I'm just sampling the good parts of the team experience, but wimping out on the two-a-days. Well, yes. Yes, I am. And I have no intention of giving birth or spending a lifetime butting my head against a glass ceiling.

But the GG seems to be under the impression that I just DECIDED to like this particular hobby. Believe me, sweetie, if opting out was on the menu, I woulda given this up a long time ago. I know life as a woman ain't all slips and slumber parties. But life as a CD is no day at the beach either.

[RADER]

I have had the opportunity to enjoy female friendship and support. I am in a position where I need to take care of a disabled spouse (cooking, cleaning, washing). I have a good idea how hard women have it. I have experienced gender discriination on a small scale in virtual worlds. I do not think the grass is greener, but I am happier doing the things I do. A. night with the boys in a sports bar holds no interest for me.

I am in a similar situation; Wife is both handicapped and starting of dementia.
I do it all, cooking, cleaning, laundry, Pills and other Med's, Everything.
I love her and I know that she would do the same for me if the roles where
reversed. Your correct in that being a Woman is not all sunshine and Roses.
But just being able to wear special clothes from time to time is a treat for me.
It is not trying to become a woman, That will never happen, but I can have my
moment in time as it where.
Rader

[BobbieCrescent]

To anonymous:

"I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman."

Most likely, not any more than any of us know what it takes to 'be a man'. We're just being (or trying to be) ourselves. I certainly can say i can't and will never know what genetic women go through in their life.

"It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts."

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but yeah. i know. Honestly, i don't think anyone is saying it *is*. Perhaps they're saying that CDing or the CDing fantasy for some is just about clothing, shoes, makeup and female parts. Maybe.

"I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums."

Those sorts of threads honestly irritate me too, but for some people it *is* very physical and i'm not sure there's entirely anything wrong with that. As for the 'slumber party' aspect.... yay slumber parties? the community aspect is certainly a part, if not a large part, of why people stick around in places like this, not to mention if people have had to deal with ostracism most of their lives, finally finding a place they feel comfortable and safe is really, really nice.



"Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc."

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Imitating the people you admire is an incredibly common human trait.

"On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

To close it out, honesty. I'm not sure if any others feel this same way, but for me, i had very few friends growing up, and all i ever saw were groups of girls. I could never find the girl that was as lonely as me. So yeah. I thought for a long time that the grass was greener on the other side. I can't say that i don't still, just a little. It would certainly be easier to look cute in a dress if i was as tall and relatively skinny as i am now, only female.

[ReineD]

Hey everyone, I received this response tonight:

I have read everyone's responses and quite a few I don't think quite understood what I was trying to ask. I can't type too much right now, I'm on my phone, but when I get to my laptop tomorrow I will write more and explain myself a bit. But thank you to all who have taken the time to reply so far.

[Julie Hall]

I have been considering this thread for a couple of days. Do I know what it takes to be a woman? No, but then again I have the same knowledge of being a man. I know how to be me, although I can surprise myself from time to time. Does dressing make me feel like a woman? No, but it gives me comfort and a small bit of fleeting happiness. Happy moments are too few and far between as far as I am concerned to be ignored or shut away.

I don't know if this will add anything to the discussion or not, but I hope you can find what you are looking for.

[BonnieSue]

I will never know what it really like to be a woman, only those born a woman will. Women are always under a man , what I mean by that is just the way things are in this world. Overseas a man can kill his wife if she upsets him. Here in the States a moslum(sp) killed his daughter because she dishonored him and his family in his eye's. My wife has had six children and I was there to watch the hell she went through bring them into this world and many women have said that if men had to have the babies there would not be any. I agree with that. Many women are beat up by their husbands or boy friends, raped or killed every day only because a man wants to. No we cannot know what it is like to be a true woman but that does not stop us who love what a woman is and what to be as close to what you are any less. As a little boy growing up I always hear the saying that little girls are made of everything nice and etc. and that still goes. A person can change his or her sex but they will never really be the other sex but that will never stop us of wanting what we cannot have. Even in heaven there is not supposed to be men and women but a spirit. That is as close as we will ever get to being what our heart desires. We will keep trying our best and because of that maybe man will care a little more for the women in their life and the woman will understand that we CS just want to be a like them as we can be in this life. You only live once. Live it to the fullest.

[BonnieSue]

. Very Very well SAID I wish I could put it the way you did.

[Amy Lynn3]

TxKimberly....You and I grew up the same. Your post brought back many memories of my Mom putting me under or behind something, while my Dad knocked the door down and then beat my Mom. We had nothing, but my Mom loved and protected me. I too remember all the bad my father caused, but I remember the woman who gave me all she had and that was her love.

To the OP....whatever you hope to gain from the different answers you get, just remember....we all come from different backgrounds and we all just want to work our way through life. Some take different roads to get there, some wear different cloths, some are female and some are male, but we all have one thing in common...we are all of the human race.

[ReineD]

....................

Sorry to everyone that it has taken me so long to reply. I dont get on my laptop that often anymore to sit and reply to long posts etc. And on my phone it gets kinda hard cause it would take me about 20yrs =)

Anyways to the point. When I asked my orginal question about if you really knew what it is to be a woman I guess I should of explained it a bit further cause ofcourse I know you guys dont know what its like to deliver children, go through the "monthly" visitor etc.. thats not really what I was trying to get at.. and I know you all cant know how a womans mind really works cause as some of you said you are all men just wanting to wear some clothing that has been marked for females. I get that =) My thought on all this is I understand that some say its just clothes.. they just want to feel and comfort of the clothing (I can understand that) then there are some that extend further and put on a wig and makeup. To me (please remember this is all just from what I see and read on the forums and my own opinion) that takes it a bit more then "just clothes" which again is just fine too.

But then you get into these posts of people posting their panty color (I know some people used that for a example in their reply here) and for the life of me I can never remember a time when I felt it was important for me to share my panty color with my friends online or offline. Maybe when I was 3 and I had wonder woman undies and I thought they were so neat! lol And then the posts asking if you would rather have a vagina or boobs, YET I keep hearing over and over again "oh its just clothes we just want to have the feel and comfort of the clothes we dont want to be women. Yet tons and TONS of posts about wanting womens body parts, trying to do whatever you can to pull off being a woman yet I keep seeing that its nothing more then so it confuses me. (And yes I am sure there are some on the forums that for them its JUST clothes and they dont want anything more then a pair of panties or something like that.

What I am trying to get at is that sometimes its like a over glorification of females and you make it out to be just all panties, pillow fights and makeup. There is more to trying to pull off being a woman. Manners would be a good starting point and not over exposing ones self as in "oh im wearing red lace panties hehehe" True ladies dont go around bragging about that. Respect yourselves more cause what I seem to just read about most of the time is a bunch of men all ages acting like middle school girls. yet you say you would like to get more respect from others etc you can get that by acting more adult with things.. but then again this all is JMO ofcourse and I am sure a lot of ppl will be upset with me for saying some of these things but thats how I feel and I feel this way cause of things that you all post on this forum. And I am pretty sure there are a few others who might feel the same way. This section scared the crap outta me when I first found out about my husband and joined here. Gave me many wrong impressions on what really CDing is all about.

So in the end some took my question to extreme and missed my point and some kinda hit it on the head. Not do you know what it takes to be a woman as in what we deal with in our lives.. but how we act and conduct ourselves our mannerisms. (And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)

[Marissa333]

Please just know that even though we here are all similar, we are all very different. Just like all humans. Some do love talking about panty colors and what not, and there are a large number of us that don't participate in those threads. Some are bi, gay or strait. Some wear makeup and wigs, and some don't. Some try to act like a woman, and some just like the clothes. So what I am trying to say is you can't look at these threads, and directly relate them to your SO. The only way to know what level of commitment your SO is at, is to have an open dialogue with your SO.

As far as the juvenile discussion are concerned, one of the girls posted here that a lot of us are new to this, and our brains treat it like we are young girls discovering what it is to be a girl for the first time. Which directly relates to your comment about only shareing what type of panties you are wearing if you were 3 and had wonder woman panties. To some of us, we feel like 3 y/o girls wearing wonder woman panties which is why we share it

Also keep in mind this. We are not openly excepted in most places, so a lot of times we post things that the majority of the population would never talk about because regardless of the topic, we get support and honest opinions that really help our self esteem most times. And if talking about panty color keeps us girls minds out of really dark places, then I will reply by saying "I think those pink panties were a great choice for that outfit"