Question to the CDers who would date a man

[Lorileah]

In other words only if they act on their fantasy or sexual attraction but then there is experimentation, if they try it and don't like it they are still straight right?

well maybe a little bent. And once you have tasted forbidden fruit... There is an old joke, just because you drove a race car once does not mean they will cal you a race car driver, but have sex once with a man one time and you are gay forever ....

I feel that if you had sex with a man or crossdresser and didn't like it your were bi-curious, if you liked it it would make you bi-sexual. Either way no one should really label you or judge you.

So if you had sex with a woman and you didn't like having sex with that woman...you would be hetero-curious, even though maybe there was another woman somewhere who could knock your socks off?

I bring this up because I have been with a woman who wasn't very good at sex. She complained and she didn't participate much. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed MYSELF but could not wait to leave. OTOH I had a GF who could keep me going for hours and hours and still wanted more. Also I have been with men who were not much fun at all (more common than a woman) but then I have been with a couple of guys who I would live with for ever too.

I understand what you are saying and I sort of agree. Some people won't say they don't like something until they try it. But I disagree with the tense of the statement. You are probably still bi-curious just not practicing

[Ciara09]

I like to see other men crossdressed, the more passable and feminine they are the more "attractive" they look to me. Which is to say, the closer that they look to real women, the more fun I have from looking at them.

But that said I don't think I'm really strongly "attracted" to crossdressers, I think it's more about watching another man fulfill my fantasy. Especially since I don't crossdress at all anymore, seeing someone else do it is the closest I can get to it.

And based my own experiences and some of the stuff I've read here, I think if youre a a man who is physically attracted exclusively to feminine traits and behavior, you're effectively straight. If you see those traits and behaviors on a cder and you're attracted to them, you're still straight. If it comes to the point of having sex with a cd, it will probably not be a satisfying as sex with a gg, but I don't know cause I've never done it.

I used to think cd fantasies and admiration was coming from some repressed homosexuality that I was afraid to admit to because I was so afraid of being gay for most of my life. But once I accepted myself as cd'r and really opened my mind to the possibility of being gay, I realized I was straight. I pretty much knew who I was all along but as cd'r it can be hard to define your own identity.

[Ressie]

I agree with Lorileah. I've had lots of women when I was younger, but only a couple of experiences with men. Some people are just great lovers no matter what gender they are. As Jimi said "are you experienced"? Lovers with experience usually know where and how to touch.

[Tina_gm]

My question was about whether you all see CDers as men ... not really whether you've dated them while dressed or not dressed.

Reine, my wife has asked me about this, how do I perceive the other members on this site. Ultimately I know that the cd'ers are men. Personally, I don't get too caught up in it all, as I basically just view the cd'ers as people similar to me when it comes to the fact they cd. So, it is a commonality and because of it is why I am now a member here myself.


Personally, the more feminine, the more I am attracted. While there are many on here who do present well, I would always be attracted to women. CDing is not a sexual thing for me. When the clothes come off I would only want a GG, even if I was single. And when it comes to anything sexual, I revert back to my birth gender.

There have been a couple of times where I think I have used a fem pronoun on here, a couple where perhaps it was used in a response to a post I have made. And that is fine with me. My wife only once that I can think of actually used a fem pronoun. (she has joked and used one many times) That one time I think was also out of a jealousy of a sorts. When we attend outdoor parties and picnics, I am always requested to make a potato salad. Apparently people like it a lot. So, once after such a request, she says afterword, "oh just another request for a salad from the salad queen, she'll do it" "She then says, I can't believe I just said that" A fem pronoun does not upset me at all. It fits, just as a male pronoun does. I guess on here, it seems the same to me when communicating with others.

[DarciB]

Couldn't agree more with Lorileah, been there, done that. After dressing for awhile, I felt a strong urge to experience myself as a woman with a man. The first few encounters were kind of "iffy", eventually I came across a man that really wanted to experience a "special" lady like me and it was very special and fulfilling for me. I had dreamed about it for so long, wanted it, feared it, desired it, despited it, but I knew until I actually experienced it, I wouldn't and couldn't really know the woman within me. In retrospect, not for everyone, but I have no regrets and I am glad that I had the courage to go to the place and meet myself as a real woman.

[MysticLady]

Another Man question.

Hell Yes, I would wipe that poor soul out.

[ReineD]

You're not reading the thread, Mystic. With all due respect, I didn't ask who you are attracted to. Frankly, I don't care.

I wanted to know why, in all the "Do you want to be with men" threads, a lot of members here say that they much prefer crossdressers to men. A crossdresser is a man, so the statement didn't make sense to me. Now it does, after having read the responses in this thread. It's just all a fantasy. CDers do know that other CDers are men.

[MysticLady]

Reine, A crossdresser is a man, yes I agree. A man that beautifies himself just as a GG would also portray a beauty that is alluring. I guess "I" am a "sucker" for beauty. It doesn't matter if a man or woman portrays it. For some, it is a fantasy, for others, they're living it.

[MatildaJ.]

I wanted to know why, in all the "Do you want to be with men" threads, a lot of members here say that they much prefer crossdressers to men. A crossdresser is a man, so the statement didn't make sense to me. Now it does, after having read the responses in this thread. It's just all a fantasy. CDers do know that other CDers are men.

I don't understand your word choice. If a CDer feels male 80% of the time, but feels female 20% of the time (while dressed), and other CDers know that, then when CDers say "I'm attracted to women and to CDers when they dress female," that means they're attracted to people-who-feel-and-look-female. I don't see why you insist on calling those CDers-who-feel-and-look-female "men", when for that 20% of the time (when they feel female), it seems like they are not men, but either women or some intermediary gender-fluid identity.

In this other thread, you wrote: "gender is a great deal more complex than black/white male/female, there's all this other stuff in between."
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...gging-for-help
So why in this thread do you keep telling us that CDers ARE men as if that's just obvious and uncontroversial. Some CDers always feel like men, but some feel like women when they dress, and if they feel like women, why do you say they ARE men?

[ReineD]

Jess, first, they don't say "I'm attracted to CDs when they dress female", they say (in the particular threads that I refer to) "I'm more attracted to a CD than a man". This seems paradoxical. Second, I call them men because they identify as men. If they didn't, they'd be TS or Gender Non-Conforming, but even then the latter is not a woman ... nor a man, for that matter.

And yes, gender is complex.

[Lexi_83]

This is what puzzles me:

A lof of CDers say that they are not attracted to men while dressed so much as they're attracted to other CDers.

Question: By definition, a CDer is a male. Why do some people here make it sound as if CDers are not male?

Thanks in advance for all your responses!

Fair question and probably 10 people have already said what I'm going to say. In my opinion it's that some people do not differentiate between gender and sexual identity, or they consider sexual identity to be binary.

This isn't just the straight world, as you see gay men constantly talking about tops and bottoms and Lesbians talking about butch and femme. Some of my lesbian friends feel very pressured to dress, look and act in a particular way by their peers.

Perhaps some other cultures accept the idea of a continuum of sexual roles or gender association, but this is not one of them.

I bring this up because I have been with a woman who wasn't very good at sex. She complained and she didn't participate much. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoyed MYSELF but could not wait to leave. OTOH I had a GF who could keep me going for hours and hours and still wanted more. Also I have been with men who were not much fun at all (more common than a woman) but then I have been with a couple of guys who I would live with for ever too.

And I wish the fun ones would wear a lapel pin or something! The sorting is so time consuming....

[MatildaJ.]

I call them men because they identify as men.

Me, I call them whatever they want to be called at the moment. If a person is presenting as a woman and gives a female name, then I presume that female pronouns are appropriate for the moment (unless I've been told otherwise). And if someone else leaned over and asked me "is that person a woman?" I would say yes and change the subject. Would you say: "No, that's a man dressed as a woman"?

[Lorileah]

Usually when addressing people in this forum the feminine pronoun is the correct one (and a certain Reine chastised me once in a thread about Chaz Bono Wonder if she remembers?), HOWEVER Reine has a very good point. When a man makes a point to explain that the clothes do not make him feel feminine or that he doesn't change personalities, then I think addressing them as a male pronoun is not out of line. The problem is making sure "he" has made that determination. So when a member says "I am a man but I want to have sex with a CD" responding to "him" would be appropriate. Just make sure you know he wants to be seen as a man in women's clothing.

[Lucy_Bella]

I am one of those who does not like to be called her or she..I don't even like to be called Lucy for that matter and it wasn't my original name on her.. My original name is a closed account and I used this name here because I caught so much crap from my old name.. That reminds me ..I need to request a name change

[ReineD]

No Lori, I don't remember about Chaz. :p

And here's a twist. When I was first with my SO, I didn't even want to call him by his male name when he was presenting male, just in case s/he just happened to be feeling internally feminine at that moment. lol. It took me about a year and a half to be comfortable using his male name in male mode. I never had a problem using her female name when she was dressed.

But yeah ... I agree if a CDer is dressed it's best to use feminine pronouns. Also, using the right pronouns with the presentation is one thing, but assuming that CDers who dress as women identify as women is quite another. If they do identify as women they are not CD, they are TS.

If I say I'm duck, it doesn't make me a duck. :There's a big difference between being TS, being Gender Non-Conforming, and being a CD.

[MysticLady]

Would you say: "No, that's a man dressed as a woman"?

Hi Jess, That would be calling a spade, spade. Wouldn't it? Or are we all just sugar coating things?

If they do identify as women they are not CD, they are TS.
If I say I'm duck, it doesn't make me a duck. :There's a big difference between being TS, being Gender Non-Conforming, and being a CD.

I believe I see a contradiction here. With all due respect, body wise, there is no difference, their mentality would be the only difference.


As a CDer, I have seen and dealt w/ men that desire me. It's a wonderful feeling to be desired either by a woman or a man. Another GG "insight" that I'm learning:D. I, in turn, find "men" that dress and beautify themselves as women do, to be desirable also. I know what they are and I know what I am, hence my HS thread. So, I have no problem saying that for me, men that are feminine, are desirable too me. Am I wrong in my thinking, please advise.

[Angie G]

When seing some of the CDer's here I dont really think of them as male. But I'm not attracted to them.
Angie

[ReluctantDebutant]

I kind of have a different take on this issue. For me I see it not as an attraction to the Cross-dresser but to Cross-dressing. In an algebra problem to solve for X you have to eliminate all other variables. If you take the man out of the dress he is no longer attractive. What was attractive was the act of dressing. To a CDer seeing cross-dressing done well can stir highly charged emotions such as envy or aspiration. From my own experience I believe cross-dressing is rooted in ones sex-drive whether or not the individual CDer does anything fetishistic or feels fetishistic about their cross-dressing. The act or just the thought of a man appearing as a woman in itself alone is the source of attraction.

Have you ever come across TG captioned pictures or photos? Pictures of very attractive GG models or the millions of "selfies" that flood the internet posted along side a short two paragraph story about how the picture is of some guy transformed into a woman. The picture of the woman alone is very attractive but add the story with the TG element and it gains an extra level of fascination to the CDer's mind. A neat test to have would be to have a man and a woman with an identical attractive appearance. Have them dressed in the same clothes and made up in the same style make-up and see who would rate more among CDers. I am sure the woman word attract them all but the man would earn extra simply because the act of cross-dressing strikes a certain unknown cord in us.

Just a thought.

[ReineD]

Thanks, RelunctandD ... it's an interesting thought!

[AbigailAlexis]

I am attracted to the feminine both in form and action, in myself and others.

I've been frustrated with society as of late for putting restrictions on who someone should love or marry. For me it's like this: I'm attracted to girls that are feminine and portray a female shape, I'm attracted to tgirls that are feminine and portray a female shape, I'm attracted to CD's that are feminine and portray a female shape. I've even been mildly interested in boys who are feminine in action. I won't limit who I like or love or feel attraction towards based on the gender they were assigned at birth, rather that to which they associate now even if its only a part time association. Hence I definitely do find some of the CD's here quite attractive. You can label me as Bi if it's easier to put a label on it, but that doesn't fully express what I am.

Honestly I've always gotten along better with girls and at least somewhat feminine guys than anyone else. I've never been great with the whole man's man thing even for friends. Everyone (guys and girls) are somewhere on the m-f gender line and I'm attracted to those toward the female end.

Even my college roommate who to most would seem to be the mans-man was never that to me, and I wasn't attracted to him as more than a great friend. But we definitely had many conversations that were far less than masculine.

[Girl]

Hell Yes, I would wipe that poor soul out.

LOL! That sounds like fun!

[Marcelle]

Hi Reine,

Firstly I am not in the category that does not find CDers attractive (sorry girls). I am straight and love the ladies. However, I can see from a cognitive perspective how it can become confusing.

We are visual creatures. Specifically, we see what we see and on first glance if you we are not 100 percent sure we fill in the gaps. So for those of us like myself who are not passable, on first blush the average person will see long hair, femme clothes and think . . . girl. If that person processes further they might then see, heavy foundation, slight beard shadow, strong jaw line . . . boy.

Okay, you are probably saying "Isha, what does this have to do with my post?". I will relay a personal experience when I was with my first girlfriend. We were out at a gay/TG bar and a very beautiful woman was flirting with me . . . nothing about her made me process . . . boy. My girlfriend was shall we say "quite open" and suggested we all get together . . . so for an 18 year guy whose first sexual experience was exactly a month prior this was a fantasy. As the play heated up, the goods did not match the package so . . . end game. Did I suspect she was TG MTF? Perhaps. Was I curious to see if maybe I could? Perhaps again. However, in the end, I could not transcend once I processed . . . boy.

I agree with Dalva from an earlier post. If I had homosexual leanings, I would most likely would have continued to explore. In the end, the image may appear "girl" but the plumbing is "boy". Unless you find men attractive on some level, no amount of fantasy is going get past that.

My two cents.

Hugs

Isha

[Robbin_Sinclair]

You're not reading the thread, Mystic. With all due respect, I didn't ask who you are attracted to. Frankly, I don't care.

I wanted to know why, in all the "Do you want to be with men" threads, a lot of members here say that they much prefer crossdressers to men. A crossdresser is a man, so the statement didn't make sense to me. Now it does, after having read the responses in this thread. It's just all a fantasy. CDers do know that other CDers are men.

A CD is a man like me dressing in the way I want to dress. Would I like to make love to a person like me? Yes. I always sought that in a woman.

Another person on this thread used the phrase, "probably still bi-curious just not practicing." Yes, I am very curious and yes, I'm deathly afraid of practicing. It can't do my marriage and my life any good.

I'm bi-curious for a man with a smile who dresses like a woman and feels like me. There, I've said it. That said, isn't this an extreme form of vanity, self love -- one of those seven Christian deadly sins a/k/a Buddhist "negative mental formations"?

[sara.s]

This is what puzzles me:

A lof of CDers say that they are not attracted to men while dressed so much as they're attracted to other CDers.

Question: By definition, a CDer is a male. Why do some people here make it sound as if CDers are not male?

Thanks in advance for all your responses!

A counter-question to ponder about.. Would a woman consider herself bisexual if she dated a cd'er even though a cd'er is a male? Why don't typical women not want a cd'er as a cd'er is still, by defn, a male?

[Marcelle]

A counter-question to ponder about.. Would a woman consider herself bisexual if she dated a cd'er even though a cd'er is a male? Why don't typical women not want a cd'er as a cd'er is still, by defn, a male?

Hi Sara. I asked my wife this exact same question when we started exploring intimacy with me dressed. She said that at the end of the day she knows there is guy below the clothing and she is not fooled into thinking I am a girl. Clothing is the packaging, the contents are what count. Plain old guy/gal fun with no illusions or lesbian fantasies.

However, if my wife all of a sudden suggested we explore intimacy with another woman or a FtM CDer, and she became intimate with him/her then yes she would be most likely bisexual or have leanings in that direction.

Hugs

Isha