Is Katlin More

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Deebra,
Caitlyn is a celebrity, before and after transition. You've heard the saying " you can take the girl out of Texas (wherever)
Caitlyn is in the spotlight for a reason. It may seem that she is out to make some cash from coming out, but never less. She's out!
So how does a celebrity do this? Someone that so many people already know.
Someone that the media is following?
Should we expect Caitlyn to address everyone of our issues in a single episode?
I hope they find a way to make her show a bit more interesting.
Exposing the suicide rate is so important.
,

[AbigailJordan]

I actually think that Caitlyn doesn't actually help regular CD's as much as people think. Let's be honest, a large majority of us here have no real desire to transition. a few of us will, and good luck to them all on their journey, but Caitlyn does far more for transgender issues than she does for CDs.

People like Grayson Perry and Kiefer Sutherland do more to help people understand that some of us just like to wear a dress from time to time (or every night in some cases). But let's be honest, the two questions most prominent when we reveal to friends or family are 1. Are you gay?, 2. Do you want to be (or do you feel like you are) a woman?

I would rather see "regular" crossdressers having more media time and showing the world that some guys are exactly like others except that they prefer to wear something cute and slinky rather than some drab jeans.

Regardless of all that, I'm proud of Caitlyn for her courage and strength and our struggles for acceptance don't in any way diminish the work she has done for the community as a whole.

[Georgina]

I don't think Caitlyn helps CDs at all. In my mind she, and anyone who transitions, only helps strengthen the misguided belief that only women can wear dresses. I am a male and want to remain so but I love wearing dresses.

[Hell on Heels]

Hell-o Deebra,
Like it or not Caitlyn is out. How she goes about exposing herself, her thoughts, and her feelings on the show is left to the producers.
Hopefully Cait has a hand (voice) in what is going on.
I'm sure she has been here ( CD.com ) reading (lurking) ( wouldn't you?)
If you had her on a one on one conversation, would you ask her if she ever considered herself a crossdresser?
Doubt it, but asking a stranger if they were TG seems so much more acceptable.
I hope her show gains some speed, but realize, we all know, and have known, what she's talking about.
With each word she utters, the media follows, with every quote they print, TG people are brought to life.
IMO. Anyone that chooses to wear the clothes designed to be worn by the opposite gender is a CDer.
With that being said, those same people have to some degree of GID.
I'm again sure that Cait realizes that the TG community reaches beyond the TS world, and every aspect of it needs to be adressed

So where do we "CDers" fit into Cait's show?
I only hope that Cait , or her producers are here, reading, getting a feel for how
the show, and the ENTIRE TG community is beijng portrayed.
Regardless, life goes on. Caitlyn doesn't know me, I don't know her.
My alarm clock will still go off at 6am!
Much Love
Kristyn

[Marcelle]

Hi all,

I can see this thread going bad (much like the last one) so I thought I would get my two cents in before it gets locked

To the OP, is Caitlyn good for CDers? Well, I have to agree with Lorileah on this one . . . the average person does not know CD from TS unless they are initiated in the community (know someone of our ilk). Indeed, I have had several people ask me at work "So you are like Caitlyn Jenner?" To which I reply "No, she is transsexual which means she is transitioning to become a woman. I am gender fluid which means some days I identify as a woman and some days as a man" Confusion and Jeopardy screen saver face "Oh so you are like a cross dresser?" To which I reply "In a sense yes but that can be anyone who wishes to dress up in women's clothing to someone like me who goes complete with make-up and a wig" The difference is when I identify as a woman, I see myself as a woman whereas some cross dressers will always maintain they are a man". A bit less confused look and then some understanding.

My point as some may be wondering . . . is that Caitlyn is getting people to talk and when they meet one of us in the Vanilla world (CDer, TG, TS or whomever) they may engage and it is up to us to educate. So the knock on effect of Caitlyn's very public transition is that it can be a starting platform for dialogue if you are out to the world as a CDer or you just wish to engage in conversation with friends about TG issues and remain private . . . it is what you do with the information that makes the difference.

Hell-o Deebra,
Caitlyn is a celebrity, before and after transition. You've heard the saying " you can take the girl out of Texas (wherever)
Caitlyn is in the spotlight for a reason. It may seem that she is out to make some cash from coming out, but never less. She's out!

Hi Kristyn,

Love this quote. It is true Caitlyn is a celebrity and once in the spotlight . . . let's face it . . . some people irrespective of gender or intentions cannot give it up, indeed it must be intoxicating to be the focus of so much attention. However, it does not negate her plight. Remember folks, she didn't go through all this to make some bucks, I mean seriously who would? She had/has real "gender dysphoria" and I am sure any here who have suffered from even the mildest form of this can attest . . . not fun. Caitlyn came out in a flamboyant way, that can't be denied but she came out because she had to. Could it have been a more low key? Certainly, but that is not what celebrities do. Again though, that does not all of a sudden reduce her intentions to non-existent because she is using the limelight. To be honest nobody here truly knows what her intentions are and she could very well be using her celeb status as a launching pad for future advocacy work once all the hype settles down.

I get the sense that Caitlyn is conflicted herself. On the one side she has to deal with the practical realities of supporting herself and is using the only means she's known for years: her celebrity. To maintain public interest she feels she has to play the glam card because that's what sells.

Bingo! We all have our coping mechanisms in dealing with this thing regardless of where we fall on the spectrum. It will most likely be something comfortable and give us a sense of worth. Let's face it how many people post pictures of themselves here looking for positive feedback (guilty as charged). Why do we do it? Acceptance, confidence or just a feel good moment when someone says "You look good". Yes, Caitlyn's may be a bit over the top but if it is helping her through things . . . why rain on that parade.

That's my point too. She doesn't give me the impression she is in touch with the average person, especially young TSs who are likely at the poverty line due to an inability to get jobs and the high cost of transition. Less flamboyance and preoccupation with looks and what to wear, and fewer comments on "what us girls need to go through to look beautiful" would be a good thing.

Hi Reine,

I agree to some extent. But then again, how many celeb role models come from less than humble backgrounds who stand-up for the plight of the disenfranchised and poverty stricken. They are not in touch with what it means to be poor or have to work and yet they still use their fame and wealth to do good and a lot of it is done with a backdrop of media frenzy.

Why is it that I have more support and respect for a story about the turmoil that a child goes through growing up transgender as presented on "Frontline' and PBS than I do about a 65 year old on "Entertainment Tonight' who's worried about what she is going to wear at a Culture Club concert.

Hi Ilsa,

I agree again to some extent. Unfortunately, Hollywood pizzazz is what sells ratings and not news. Now, it is likely that Caitlyn will fast become a bi-line in the entertainment world (indeed check out the tabloids and you will see very little about her) but her explosion upon the world is what has brought people's head out the sand when it comes to being TG which in turn has made being TG newsworthy and potentially acted as the impetus to get these stories out to the world. But to be honest . . . all this media attention irrespective of Hollywood glam or real life plight will lead a Mayfly existence until the next big thing comes along. It is up to us (CDer, TS, TG or whomever) to keep that alive in the minds of those who have seen it and not just the intentions of one or two celebs.

Cheers

Isha

[Krisi]

I'm with Georgina (post #26) on this. Caitlyn strengthens the misconception that every crossdresser is on his way to becoming a woman. It is just not the case and so she is really hurting us. I cringe every time there is a mention of her on TV and my wife is watching because I'm not sure my wife believes me when I say I have no desire to "become a woman".

[AnnieMac]

"Caitlyn" is out there to make money. Something really creeps me out about her, that has nothing to do with crossdressing or gender issues. She reminds me of Michael Jackson. There is something really all off about her face, cheekbones and lips. She has already had way too much plastic surgery I think. Particularly, the lips look all tight and frozen.
My guess is, if you have her as a selection on one of those "which celebrity goes next death watch list" She would be a good bet.
However, at least she has raised some healthy discussions. Not so much about crossdressers (we who do it as fun dress-up play) but about real transgender issues. First came the now mostly regular acceptance of gays, next will be tansgenders, and perhaps next will come acceptance just guys like me that like the look and feel of the clothes and like to dress feminine sometimes. I don't really need to change my body in anyway, well other than to loose some of the beer gut.

[Zooey]

Caitlyn is, as Bruce was, a celebrity and a great inspirational speaker. I think she went a bit to far with some of her cosmetic facial procedures (she's rich in LA, she's not exactly an oddball here), and I do wish her public declaration of womanhood hadn't been glamour shots. That said, I applaud her for (even if retroactively) reaching out to learn more about the broader set of issues transgender folks in different life situations are experiencing and speaking out about them. I believe she's doing that genuinely, and I think she's a powerful member of the community who can legitimately help improve things. She appeals to a broader base and, frankly, has a lot of experience with a less confrontational style of speaking than many activist trans folks I know. Not saying confrontation is bad, but having a bit softer touch on TV as well may help win over more people more easily.

[Barbara Jo]

IMO, Cait is more or less "popular" and accepted by the general simply because she was already a media reality show star in something like a soap opera setting.
This was / is the attraction of the karsdashian show..... a real life soap opera

Then, it's revealed that a "character" on the show did/does something controversial. it fascinates those who are into this type of entertainment.

BTW, I doubt that anything can change the minds of died in the wool homophobes and / or TG hateres ..

[Stephanie47]

Caitlyn is not a cross dresser. I've stated on other threads the vast majority of people I know recognize there are men and women who are born into the wrong physical body. They may not understand why this occurs, but, they are accepting of it. And, there are many instances reported in the media of men transitioning to women who run into difficulties using facilities designated for females; the locker room issues with young girls present too. In most cases there is really no way a casual observer is able to tell whether the male is a cross dresser or a transsexual. Either way the person may be subject to negative comments or worse.

Caitlyn has the money and the ability to insulate herself from the negative interactions the rest of us would be subject too. The people I have encountered mostly view Caitlyn in a negative light. All have viewed her as a media event and nothing more. I really do not know if she will "further the cause." People will be swayed by encountering ordinary folks in their otherwise mundane lives. Right now Caitlyn seems to be more of a curiosity than a true representative of transsexuals.

[arbon]

In my mind she, and anyone who transitions, only helps strengthen the misguided belief that only women can wear dresses. I am a male and want to remain so but I love wearing dresses.

I just posted a link to a TED talk by CiCi Kytten in the media section. You should watch it.

Those who have transitioned have come to own and claim their identities in the real world. More crossdressers should try it and stop complaining about how everyone else holds them back.

[Lorileah]

People like Grayson Perry and Kiefer Sutherland do more to help people understand that some of us just like to wear a dress from time to time (or every night in some cases).

One question...how's that working out for the CD community? I had to look up Perry and he seems to be or have been a fetish dresser (Personally not what I think is great PR for most here) Kiefer, I will buy but is he still news? When did he make a splash? I'm surprised that Eddie Izzard wasn't listed there, at least he does have a wide following.

But that aside...once again why are we dividing the community into They help them not us?

[ReineD]

Hi Reine,

I agree to some extent. But then again, how many celeb role models come from less than humble backgrounds who stand-up for the plight of the disenfranchised and poverty stricken. They are not in touch with what it means to be poor or have to work and yet they still use their fame and wealth to do good and a lot of it is done with a backdrop of media frenzy.

I'm also concerned about the general populace, the people that we're wanting will accept the idea that some individuals are genuinely born in the wrong bodies and they need compassion and support. If Caitlyn persists in presenting herself as a Hollywood diva, I'm concerned that people in general will continue to tell themselves that Caitlyn, specifically, is doing this all for show and money and it's not "for real". There's a disconnect between the reality that Caitlyn is portraying and most TS' lives that I think will make it difficult for the people who do discriminate against TSs, to listen to Caitlyn's message and translate this to "yes, I will give this TS a job" or "yes, I will sign a lease with this TS".

My concerns may be unfounded, but I'm basing them on the conversations I've had with the people I know about Caitlyn, most of whom are taking it all as one big publicity stunt for money. I do think a change in image would do much to dispel these negative attitudes.

That said, I think that the people (wives, children, siblings, parents, etc) of TGs will be able to look past Caitlyn's presentation and pay attention to her words and sentiments. But, these family members have a head's up on the general populace because they are already personally involved with a TG and they can already relate a bit with the difficulties that these TGs experience.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

What would you have her do?

be specific

give away her money?
wear grungy clothes? pretend she is 18 and somehow relate to the current generation as if she is one of them
talk about cds when she is not a cd?
hide in the closet? not transition? have srs and broadcast it?

what would you have her say? she has said a lot of wonderful things..

would you begrudge her livelihood as a tv personality and motivational speaker??
who would you have her be other than herself??

[Princess Chantal]

Oh great here we go again.....
Why does the Caitlyn threads always lead to the putting down of crossdressers just cause of a few that don't put her on a pedestal for her "efforts"?

[Badtranny]

Here we have a group of people who have done NOTHING to advance acceptance of CD's or anybody TG related, critiquing somebody who is literally putting it all out there. It's entertaining to read and I guess this is the right place for it, but please understand that closeted people have zero influence or credibility in the community.

I realize that a good number of the CD's who frequent the board probably spend a good deal of time with regular dudes (dudes who don't have a girl's name on the weekends) in spirited conversations about sports, and those damn queers. I'm sure that your blistering critique of Ms Jenner is appreciated in those circles, but around here she is considered a Trans Woman and the trans women who hang out here tend to respect people who damn the torpedoes for the cold comfort of authenticity.

What you say about Caitlyn you could say about any of us, and what you say about the least of my people you say about me. To paraphrase an ancient Jewish dude.

[Ruby John]

So I was just sitting there trying to look passable. This lady walks up and says You must be like Caitlyn? I told her I am a pretty good athlete but not that good. Ruby

[AngelaYVR]

Let the ad hominems fly! Straw men await your skewering!
Anybody who needs to continually divide this into an "us versus them" fight is not in my camp at all. So sad.

[pamela7]

Crossdressers will gain more acceptance when they come out, live openly, and talk about who they are. Caitlyn is doing a great service to the trans community, particularly those who transition. But for CDs, since everyone on TV is tripping all over themselves to distinguish trans women from CDs, I don't think this will have so much impact unless more of you are visible.

as ever Paula is really clear and on the money here. While hiding is an integral part of CD for many, it's only needed cos so many hide!!!!

[Katey888]

It is possible to express an opinion without trolling or being abusive about it - anyone who has stated an opinion already should think very carefully about just shouting the same thing louder because they believe that will 'win' some sort of argument. :rulez:

This isn't a debate with a winner and loser - it's a discussion - please keep it civil or it won't even be that.... AGAIN!

Make your point - keep it polite - please... :dammit:

Katey
Moderator

[Abby Kae]

For my money, all press is good press. Sure, a bunch of 'phobes are crawling out of the woodwork (in the general populace) with some nasty comments, but they did the same thing in the 80s with gay men.

Today, marriage is legal for everyone and those who don't like it have to take a back seat.

Eventually, it'll be the same for TS/TG people. Naysayers can voice their opinions, but in the long run ANY conversation about it, good or ill, will engender acceptance. I'm not even talking about Caitlyn specifically, though she was the catalyst that sparked the public conversation. Her motives matter not in the least. All that matters is that more and more people hear about this subset of humanity, and see that we exist. They'll hate for a while, then the majority will realize that we're actual people, too.

You do you, let Caitlyn do Caitlyn, and eventually we'll all work it out together.

[Lorileah]

OK, I guess we agree. Good for the TS's, not good for the CD's, good role model except she is probably too rich and too public, so she doesn't represent the people here who don't have fame or money.

Mainstream people see her as an act because she is connected to an act, so no matter what she ever does, or has done in the past, is now moot because after all she can't be sincere. But she seems sincere and she seems like she cares, maybe, sorta, kinda but younger people can't connect because she is old and wisdom isn't what we need, we need 100% acceptance right now but then again we don't really want to work for it. That feels close. :rolleyes:

Someday I hope that both camps actually join hands and walk together in a united front, you know one big camping trip...kumbya and marshmallows. I also believe in :fairy3:

[emma5410]

If we are all holding hands we will not be able to walk very far unless the closet has wheels.

[docrobbysherry]

I agree with Reine.

CD's r often looked down on by TS's. Even here. When someone like Caitlyn comes out as a CD? Then, we'll see the gloves come off and MAY see all the "nice", "nice", interviews and comments disappear!

[steftoday]

I wish she would learn of this site and join. I'd love to hear her answers.