Bathroom bills and other laws , discussion thread

[Mayo]

If you can show me any aggregated statistics from national police associations, the DOJ, or the FBI, on sexual offences committed by TS/CDs ('real' or otherwise) I'd love to see them. In their absence, we have to go with what we have and, as I said, the NUER campaign at least has a motive to assemble as many cases as they can to support their argument. Given (as I showed above) that they fail to present any substantial numbers, I call BS on them and their campaign in its entirety.

I'm sure a lot of older people, women, and even those with spiritual beliefs were upset when same-sex marriages were made legal, or when gays started coming out of the closet, or when schools were integrated, or when women got the vote. Gays, blacks and women have always been with us and laws giving them the same rights as cis/het white men does not create any issues that weren't there before - they just become more visible. To pass laws banning TS/CDs because once every three years someone who's genetically male and wearing a dress commits a sex offence in a women's washroom is ridiculous. There are far more crimes committed by [insert name of pretty much any group here] than TS/CD people, yet we don't call for their rights to be rescinded or limited. We don't ban men from associating with women because women are raped (by men, of course), and I'm sure victims of sexual assault are triggered by the presence or actions of many more cis/het men in a year than by the sight of TS/CDs. There is a point beyond which such attempts to control people are pointless for any practical reason, especially when there are issues that are hundreds or thousands of times more important in terms of number of people who are affected.

These laws are simply attempts to push TS/CD people back in the closet so that nobody needs to be confronted by a reality that may make them uncomfortable.


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(For some reason, none of the 'Reply' options will let me post a new comment, but instead force me to add to this one. So here goes.)


In reply to some of the posts above and, more specifically, to one that followed my last post (i.e. the one above the 'Updated' line) but has since been deleted:

Most objections to allowing TS/TG people to use the washrooms of the gender with which they identify, if not rooted in religious interpretations (which I will not discuss herein), seem to me to boil down to the issue of 'comfort'.

• People who are not GGs should not enter women's washrooms because of 'privacy'.
• The presence of TS/TG/CDs might make sexual assault survivors feel uncomfortable.
• We should not upset people with 'strong spiritual beliefs'.

There are many things that make people uncomfortable. The sight of two men kissing apparently upset someone enough that they recently shot over a hundred people, half of them fatally. When people make their own 'comfort' more important than the rights of others, the result is discrimination, oppression or worse. Beyond the obvious impact of deliberate hate crimes, discrimination has consequences that seriously affect peoples' lives. I could point you to any number of studies on how not being straight, white and/or cisgender in America has negative effects on almost any measure of well-being. Any 'agenda' that seeks to reduce discrimination sounds like a good one to me.

Bathrooms have stalls for privacy. If no crime is being committed, the fact that someone in the next stall over might have different genetics than you is solely a matter of comfort, nothing else. Your comfort, like your religious belief, does not entitle you to deny me my rights as a human being.

I am a supporter of unisex bathrooms, though I concede that there will inevitably be an adjustment process as the country adapts to it, just as it takes time to adapt to any other change. The adjustment to out LGB people, for example, is still going on and, as Orlando showed, still has a long way to go (I give it another two generations or so). The acceptance of TS/TG/CD/nonbinary people is only just beginning. I have no doubt that there will be some sexual offences committed in women's (or unisex) washrooms over the next 50 years, though I rather suspect the vast majority will be by cis/het men and/or against TS/TG/CD/NBs. Our society needs to change the way it thinks about gender and all of the toxic BS that goes along with it.

If you object to the presence of TS/TG/CD/NBs in washrooms because you are truly concerned about the safety of the wimmins 'n chilluns, why not actually do something constructive about that instead of further marginalizing already-marginalized people. If you really want to reduce rape, sexual assault, and violence against women, passing pointless legislation that discriminates against a specific group in the name of preventing offences that are already illegal is a waste of time and resources and only disseminates misinformation in the service of promoting hatred. Rather, you need to educate people about consent and toxic masculinity and rape culture, make resources available to assault survivors, and reform the way the justice system treats rape victims and punishes offenders. And work on accepting people who are not like you.