I am sorry to hear your problems. I know it means nothing that you are not alone with this. Donna Rose wrote a book called Wrapped in Blue. She went thru the very same thing you are now going thru. I don't mean for you to read it now but maybe at a latter day when things have calmed down a little it might be good for you to read. All of us do send our love to you and your wife and child.
Bobbie
I've held off on posting to this thread, perhaps out of respect for the sheer grief for all parties immediately involved....I truly do feel your pain, so much so that it's like my previous life flashing before me again.Originally Posted by Sophia Rearen
I think Sophia has hit the nail squarely on the head. It's the build up of lies that took place, sizzling along the fuse, as it were, before the big explosion.
While I did not experience this with Trudi (again, I was told before we became intimate) I *have* experienced the eviscerating affect of learning that the man I was married to had been living the ultimate lie from the moment we started dating. (no not Trudi, and no not CDing).
When the awful truth hit me square in the face,(he did not confess btw) it was *not* the truth that hurt so much, as the LIES he had repeatedly told, even when confronted (by me) with what I suspected was the truth. The man even swore on our infant son's life! (you see there *are* many similarities)
The lies (in my opinion and experience) will be the most damaging thing for your wife, Fiona, and the most difficult to move beyond.
My marriage died that day, thankfully, instead of a slow and painful death. (My circumstances dictated that our marriage, unlike yours,could not be salvaged.) However, the painful scars did not fully heal, until the day, 23 years later, when he sat across the table from me,(he had requested a meeting with me as life ironically had placed me in the town he now lived~literally a thousand miles from "the scene of the crime".) he was 47 years old, looked 60, and said, without coercion: " I was WRONG to lie to you, I had no right to do what I did to you, and I have been paying the price ever since. Can you forgive me? " FINALLY it was *over*. Yes, the man wrecked my life and my very young dreams, but the lies were what I needed closure to, more than I ever realized.
I say that to suggest this: Perhaps the lies are what you need to seek forgiveness for FIRST. No, I do not suggest that you should seek forgiveness for being a crossdresser, simply that the lying must be dealt with first. My ex never mentioned forgiveness for what he lied about nor did I feel he needed forgiveness~ one needn't seek forgiveness for something beyond their control.
Other (private) conversations I have engaged in today prompted me to share this with you, and ultimately the entire board.
Yes, these memories are emotional for me, and it's not easy to 'gut myself' before everyone. I am at peace with this "other life" now, and the very fact that I can share it is proof, to ME, that I am a survivor.
My hope is that by sharing my history, I can help you, or any other members here, understand the devastating affect living a secret life can have on lives, loves, and marriages, of those who love only a part of you, the part you allow them to know.
Quickly hitting the Submit button before I change my mind....
Vanya
P.S. The fact that I survived all this, and 30 years later, am married to a Crossdresser who I not only accept, but absolutely ADORE should be testimony to the power of TRUTH, and INFORMED CONSENT.
It still amazes ME that I did not absolutely go into a comotose fetal position over all the "button pushing" aspects of marriage to a CD: the femininity, the intimacy (I'll keep this PG rated) while enfemme, etc. I attribute this to communication, LISTENING instead of waiting for a chance to talk, being HONEST, including honesty about those aspects that pushed buttons for me, Trudi's willingness to be HONEST with me, and the hundreds of hours we spent in the early days laying our souls bare to each other. The HONESTY is what allowed me to trust again, and the TRUST we have for each other, allowed me to love her unconditionally.
Edited to correct a miscalculation in age.
Last edited by GG Vanya; 08-02-2006 at 10:33 PM.
A green hemmorhage
If I told my wife, she would have a green hemmorhage, s*** twice, and roll over dead. Not even remotely an option. I am, as ever, ensconced in der closet... and loving it !
Arena Theory
Kali GG's posts regarding her husbands preference to be submissive sexually while she preferred someone to be more aggressive, prompts me to offer this suggestion to everyone dealing with problems with their SO's.
There is a theory of "miscommuniction" called the Arena Theory. Very briefly, it looks at the tendency for a couple to pick an arena in which to fight that is relatively safe. For example, if your wife is very sensitive about her parenting style, you fight about her cooking, her financial management, or her sex life. But never about the one thing that could really hurt her, even if that is really what needs to be discussed. Wives do the same thing by complaining about things that we are not particularly sensitive about, not necessarily what she is really upset about.
Why this is germain to this discussion is that it sounds like many of the experiences discussed on this net have crossdressing as the 'arena' in which to fight, rather than addressing the real underlying issue that is the problem in the relationship.
This is a good news/bad news thing. The good news is that each partner is trying to not "kill" the other, thereby suggesting some caring remaining in the relationship. And that CDing isn't the biggest problem. The bad news is that unless the real issues are discussed, resolutions are very unlikely to occur. And that CDing isnt the biggest problem.
Crossdressing is a great arena in which to fight and not accomplish anything. The CDer can plead genetic predisposition, and therefore no real fault or responsibility. And the SO can point to the society backing her position of disgust.
The CDer usually has more than enough pre-existing guilt for the SO to tap into, and the SO generally has sufficient insecurity that predates the relationship, that the CDing brings up old issues that are very frightening, and scares her out of effective arguing.
I have said it before, and I say it again. Psychotherapy is not for amateurs. You need to be very selective when choosing a therapist! Any psychotherapist that cries, (or prays), with you should be avoided like the plague.
Good luck.
Vanya, thank you for your post and for your honesty and openness. It sounded like what you wrote was very hard to get out and I'm glad you managed it. I'm also glad that you have found peace with what happened in your past and even better that you have found such happiness in your present and future.
Bee, yes, I think this thread illustrates what can go (horribly) wrong if you confront an SO with a truth that can wreck both of your lives. I certainly regret what has happened and I admit that I have wished that it didn't, that I could turn the clock back or promise to never CD again and other such things.
But, the right thing to do was to tell the truth. It's right in a completely logical sense and also it does feel right as well. Before I actually dropped the bombshell I posted here to say I felt that coming out with the truth would lift a weight from me, the CDing was the only one big secret I had and the thought of not having to keep this in anymore was quite uplifting.
Obviously I can't say I feel so certain anymore about the course of action I took (I *certainly*) didn't go about it the right way (see post by Kathy on this thread and loads of others on the one about "I told a downright lie" - sorry, haven't time to find link to this).
I do feel some relief though that things are now out in the open, it makes me feel a certain amount of freedom I guess, I certainly no longer have to worry about the secret itself since that no longer exists.
However, as people have said before, it is ultimately up to you how you handle your life the the choice of telling the truth or living in the closet is up to you and you alone. There isn't really a right and wrong when it comes down to it.
Vicky, thank you for that information regarding the arena theory, some of it certainly seems to ring true with my situation, my wife did mention other things that had bothered her about me as well last night. I had to stop and ask why we were talking about this, it was almost as if we just kept switching to different arguments.
Anyway, must go, flying to India soon!
Thank you all
Fiona,
I hope your trip to India goes well, and that the time apart focuses your wife's mind on what she is losing.
From my own experiences, I fear, however, it will go the other way - especially as it would seem her mother is taking a hand in her daughter's worries.
If you ever need another UK girl's shoulder to cry on - just get in touch. I feel for you, and know what you are going through.
Take Care.
Debs
I feel so bad for you! Maybe when you see the doctor you can express that you are the same person you have always been and get the doctor on your side. Though so far, he doesn't sound too sympathetic. Hopefully your wife hasn't told any of her friends who will be at the party. But with them pestering her to find out what is wrong and how can they help, they are sure to either find out or just assume the worst (like you cheated on her or something). I realize that this is a difficult time for your wife, but she doesn't seem very understanding at all. Though you know your wife better than all of us. It is not like you told her you are gay and no longer love her. Hopefully she will come to realize this. My thoughts are with you!
I have been reading all the posts here and don't really know what I can add. Certainly I am sorry things are so bad. It does not bode well that your parents and your wife's parents are involved and apparently all against you. Is there any possibility that you and your wife could go somewhere away from them? From the sounds of it she may not agree. If she doesn't want to share a room, maybe you could get two. I don't know your financial situation and don't need to know. I do strongly feel that your best chance of healing your relationship is to get everyone else out of it.
I also agree that you should never move out - but that's water under the bridge now.
It is very confusing for the SO when you learn about cding. I had no experience in my life with cding before I found out my SO did it. At first I wondered about all kinds of things like was he gay or bisexual. Eventually I realized he is a "normal" heterosexual male who just likes to wear traditionally female clothing. How many women wear pants and unisex tops these days? It's really hard to tell which sex shoes are intended for and on and on. If your wife calms down and can be rational these things may help. For now, just try to be patient and loving. I think it is good advice to act like your "normal" self around your wife.
I hope things work out for you. If she won't even consider working things out, then you will have to go on without her. Most marriages have low points. If you both work to have a strong relationship this could be a turning point for the better. You probably could have handled telling her about your cding better but it was probably going to come out eventually. In my experience, the telling is the worst part. I hope that is true for you as well.
In closing let me say again that I think you need to spend some time together away from your families if possible. Once you have your relationship repaired you can work together on your parents. If your wife dosen't want to try you really can't make her.
Good luck,
Debbie GG
That paragraph of all you've written struck home with me.
First off, if she took off the ring she really does think it's over, doesn't she?
Women hold rings dear, as a promise etc.....
The part about turning the lights off in the bedroom, that kind of struck me as a huge red flag.
Can I make an assumption, please correct me if I"m wrong, but did her mom coddle her all the way through High School and protect her from the real world?
I mean nothing bad, I've seen actions like this before and it did seem to be a common denomenator, run to mom....?
Or I could be way off base and apolagize if I am!
Scottie
You must dare to disassociate yourself from those who would delay your journey... Leave, depart, if not physically, then mentally.
Go your own way, quietly, undramatically, and venture toward trueness at last.
-- Vernon Howard
I'm sorry to hear this, and I do hope theres a happy ending for the two of you
:ukflag: Love as always Jasminexxxxxxxx
I have had tears in my eyes while reading this whole thread, the tears were from the thought of what if i had done this or acted this way toward my husband when he came out to me????? I did do the initial freak out thing, then the are you gay thing?,then the well then why to hell do ya do it thing, to just letting it go and loving him and her when he becomes her, it actually has opened so many doors for us, has broken through communication barriers we used to have and because i am finally accepting we are so much closer.
But i shudder at the thought of what i would have lost had i reacted the same way your wife is reacting, after all HE IS STILL THE MAN I MARRIED AND FELL IN LOVE WITH, only sometimes he is a better woman than a man!!!!!!!
I like so many others wish you luck and love throughout your ordeal, but it sounds like to me she is working her way up to working you our of her life for good......she is just not able to accept of comprehend any of it.....
And why bring in counselors??? i have never yet heard of any that have actually helped people..they are either against of all for......one of the other.
And as for a doctor....what do they do give ya some drugs that make you a MACHO MACHO MAN?? (village people song) why cant you be you, and why cant she love you for who you are....? i know you wonder that too but that is my hopes for you and your wife.
Best of luck to you, but do think down the road to the bigger picture, prepare yourself for the marriage splitting....if it does not in fact happen and i hope for you and your sons sake and your wife, at least you will have thought everything through.
Hugs
Lostmyhubby GG (Diane)
(curtsey)
This is why i have always told GFs VERY early in the relationship about sissy stacy. i could go on with long stories of what happened and/or why i do/have done it, but most of that has already been covered here.
i have gotten some bad reactions, ranging from being called names, to yelling, swearing and even being slapped. i have also gotten good reactions, ranging from curiosity to enthusiasm. Some of the girls who reacted bad later approached me to say they at least gave me credit for being up front or honest early on.
i have always had a rule to let them know abut sissy stacy no later than the 3rd date after we got intimate. i have always stuck to it. It hurt when the girl rejected me because of sissy stacy, but i was sure the hurt would be worse for everyone if the girl found out about sissy stacy (however she found out) after the relationship was going along. Judging from what i have read on this and other threads like it, my hunch is a good one.
(curtsey)
--sissy s.
Last edited by sissy stacy; 08-06-2006 at 09:57 AM.
I should feel lucky. When I told my wife she laughed and smiled and said "is that all?" Later she added "don't do it around me" and that was the end of it.
She knows, and just doesn't want to talk about it.
Well there has been the odd argument before where she has tried to throw the ring at me but that usually didn't last long and I think she was doing it more for the effect and to release some of her anger at the time
I think this only happened once or twice and everything was smoothed over and it wasn't such a big deal.
Now she has taken all her rings off and has not said a thing about it and even tried to hide the fact by covering her hand. This certainly seems alot more than simply getting annoyed and letting off steam, I would agree it's more like a signal that it's the end of the marriage as far as she is concerned.
As an aside, I did use to feel VERY guilty about dressing when I had a brief moment alone and my wife wasn't around and I use to feel that I should remove my ring as if wearing it would taint it in some way.
Then I kind of decided that I should keep it on as it meant that I was married and that this was as much part of me as CDing.
I am still wearing my ring and will not likely take it off ... I suppose that may be practical as well as sentimental as I haven't mentioned my current problems to anyone at work or friends etc.
Well in fairness, as I've kind of said before, we never had much of a sex life before (I would say that neither of us cared about this but I think we both did in our own ways but never talked much about it) and my wife has always seemed a bit uncomfortable about things before, though I don't blame her for this, I can hardly say I'm some magnificent sex god so it probably boils down to insecurities on both sides.
Actually I suppose some of my insecurities may be down to CDing - I've often worried that I need to be dressed to enjoy sex and feel sexy and turned-on. Or put another way I have thought about being dressed as something to spice things up.
My wife has said that she is just not interested in this and is completely turned off by the idea, while this is obviously not catastrophic I'm sure some of you are thinking that this could be a problem going forwards even if everything else is sorted out.
Actually you are wrong.
No, her parents are pretty down to earth and my wife spent plenty of time travelling the world and working as a nanny all over the place and certainly experienced alot more of the real world than I probably did - it's only now that I've got the real travel bug.
I think that her confidence did take some serious hits at various points in her life and she has always said that these have contributed to her insecurities now.
She has also said that I talk down to her and she also had a phase of feeling that she wasn't good enough for me and that all my friends wouldn't like her because she didn't go to university but they did.
This phase seems to have passed now and we will openly joke with each other about how silly some of my seemingly intelligent friends are.
I'm quite prepared to believe that, while I've not tried to put her down or be patronising, that I may have done this indirectly by talking about work and techie things and stuff like that. It may also be that I have not given her enough attention and wrongly assumed that she was fine with this and getting on with life when it was really making her feel down.
I think in this case you are wrong but I can understand why you would arrive at this idea so I'm not offended by the suggestion in the slightest.
I think the reason she ran to her Mum was that she felt she had to tell someone but felt there was no-one she could tell because there wasn't any friend that she could count on as being that close and also that the people she does know are from work and she was afraid of what they may think/say/do.
Ironically she seems to be acting in a fairly strong and secure manner and had kept busy sorting things out in the house and was also much more together when I went over to pack for India, it was me that dissolved into floods of tears. This is not to say she's not got upset but she does seem to be trying to deal with this in some way. On the other hand this show of strength may just be part of her anger towards me.
I think really she is a very strong and together person but maybe she doesn't let herself be like that normally and maybe the way I am makes her suppress this side of herself. She has said before that I go on and on about things and she'll often let me do what I want otherwise I just keep going on about it.
The more I write the more I think I'm arguing that my wife would probably be a better and happier person without me, it sounds like the way I am just isn't what she needs in a husband so that she can feel herself and be happy.
I guess the CDing and our obvious difference of opinion and desires in this respect just amplify the other problems and differences.
I'm not trying to be hard on myself here or give up on my marriage but, when it comes down to it, maybe coming out could (after alot of pain and suffering) be the best thing for both of us as it will allow us to be who we really are - just maybe not together as a couple.
On the other hand being apart at the moment may be causing both myself and I guess my wife also to think along these lines and we may simply be trying to think of reasons to take the "easy" route out and split up.
I don't really know what the right answer is here
I guess that probably is luckier than me although I would probably say that you maybe do still need to talk about it and not just avoid the subject completely.
It's obviously fine if your wife doesn't want to participate with your CDing but I think being able to talk a little about it just to make sure she is okay with it and that she understands that you really love her and care for her would be a good idea.
Advice I have been getting here has included suggestions that you do need to talk to your wife and tell her that you love her and that she is the most important thing to you and not give her any reason to doubt that the "other woman" is just a part of you and not something your wife needs to be jealous or insecure about.
Sorry, I'm probably just saying what wiser and more eloquent people have said before
Wow, I do wish you the best of luck, and again apolagize if my assumptions were off base....
Maybe she does feel she's lost a "Husband", but then maybe she'll think back to all the husband stuff you did for her, it can't be easy for sure....
Scottie
You must dare to disassociate yourself from those who would delay your journey... Leave, depart, if not physically, then mentally.
Go your own way, quietly, undramatically, and venture toward trueness at last.
-- Vernon Howard
I would agree 100% that you should be upfront about this with any relationship you start this is both practical (avoids alot of pain and hurt on all sides) and obviously the right thing to do in terms of honesty with a partner and with yourself.
"Don't be ashamed" was what I was told to remember about coming out and if you're not ashamed then why hide it from someone you wish to have a relationship.
The problem is, I didn't really know what I was doing at the time I met my wife, I didn't have a forum like this, I thought it had been all a phase I was going through and that I had stopped while dating my wife and therefore would never have the urge again. I probably wouldn't have had the courage to come out even then so I may still have ended up in this situation.
So yes, anyone reading this the advice is to be up front as soon as you can in a relationship, the affect of leaving it so long is devastating.
That's no problem, no need to apologise, I don't get offended easily and take whatever advice, ideas, suggestions people have given in the spirit in which it was intended, i.e. to be helpful.
No, this isn't easy and while I'm coping now (well, "avoiding" is probably a better description) I do get the odd thing that brings it all back like when I'm talking to the colleagues out here as if nothing has happened and I mention something my son did or what we all did as a family or I tell them how good my wife is etc.
good luck for the future, try and talk once things calm down but focus on the love you both have for one another and if anything can get you through this love will. all my love and support at this time Tiana x
As ever I must say a big, big thank you to everyone who has posted on this thread to give advice and support and also to those who and e-mailed/PM/IM - it really had helped me (and also my wife, indirectly) to have people to 'talk' to.
So where am I now?
Well, I'm in India still, fly back next Thursday morning if the UK airports will be accepting flights by then (what with all the security and chaos) so I *should* get home by Thursday evening. I can't wait.
I feel terrible here, alot of this has to do with the ridiculously long hours, lack of sleep (early start/late finish) and the erm, 'interesting' affects of the food. Overall, I'm not having fun ... it feels like a punishment for all the hurt that is going on back home ... I probably deserve it too.
I spoke to my wife twice yesterday, first time she was in tears and said her Dad was very upset and had been feeling ill anyway and this wasn't helping (she didn't mean this to be a nasty thing to say she was just explaining that her parents are having a hard time coping with this).
Also my son is a bit clingy and my wife is having to stay with him in his bedroom until he goes to sleep. He knows something is wrong and it's obviously upsetting him.
My wife said that she didn't think she could cope with me being away all the time (I have had to travel alot) and knowing what I would be doing while away, she said it would knaw away at her.
She also said that she thought my CDing would get "worse", she wasn't too clear on this but seemed to think that I would be wanting to dress around the house, around her and I suppose (though she didn't say), around our son. I tried to reassure her that this would NOT be the case.
So after that conversation I felt pretty low. The only good thing is that she said I should take the Friday off (after I fly back) so that we could talk.
I got back into the hotel at around midnight and my wife phoned me again. This time she sounded alot more together and she asked if I could phone her Dad as he wanted to talk to me, just talk, nothing else since he was having a hard time understanding this.
My wife also told me that she has lost her wedding ring
I told her this was all my fault and that I didn't want everyone to be so hurt by this ... I broke down in tears on the phone, it was too much to take
She was very calm and told me not to cry and even made a few jokes about things. She also said I deserved to be feeling ill at the moment, serves me right she said, but it was not said with malice.
I can't remember much else that was said (it was late, I was tired, ill and upset) but my wife sounded quite strong, practical and caring. I felt better that she could be like this.
I cried for a while after putting the phone down. It really is too much to take, it shouldn't hurt so many people so much it just isn't fair - and yes, I know that is not a very good argument, life isn't meant to be "fair" it just is.
At that moment I was ready to just burn everything and do anything I could to stop CDing and make everything right again. That was really how desperatly unhappy I felt. I may have disagreed with my wife and maybe we aren't 100% right for each other and I would probably admit to times when I've thought that we should maybe split up, I'm sure she's thought the same over the years.
I know I have also thought in the past that, if I wasn't married to my wife I could happily carry on CDing and wouldn't have to worry. This thought has crossed my mind before and I bet other CDers have thought and even acted on the very same feelings.
Unless you are completely selfish than take it from me, the prospect of really losing someone that you love and all of the happiness and memories that you have had together is, when it hits you as a reality, the most heart-breaking and overwhelming thing there is. Like people say, you don't realise what you have until it is not there.
All I can do now is muddle through the next few days as best I can and look forward to getting back safely (hopefully) and as quickly as possible to the UK.
I hope during this time my wife can stay strong, calm, and open to talking about us without getting too upset and distraught. I hope I can manage a degree of the same also.
I am also still hoping that, on my return I will be able to be back home - I don't think I'd be able to go anywhere else when I get back as I will just be exhausted. Also it sounds like my wife and I need to be there, together, for our son. He is upset that his Mum isn't happy and he will be missing me, and we need to spend some time with him to make him feel happy and special and more secure.
I'm sorry if all that I am writing is so depressing, please ignore my posts if this is the case, simply writing them is a little help to me, I hope they may be some help to others but understand if they're not. This is my personal experience and I sincerely hope that no-one else has to go through this.
Love to all
Take the day off as she has suggested, both of you need this talk be honest with her and listen to what she has to say.
Sandra
Administrator
I always used to rib you about your legs can't anymore. R.I.P Sexy Legs
R.I.P Rianna
Yes, I have e-mailed my manager to book that day and the whole of the following week off. Have also explained that my wife and I are having problems with our marriage, obviously I've not said what/why.
My manager is fairly understanding and is also aware that the travelling I have been doing hasn't gone down too well.
On a slightly more positive note I have revealed my troubles and the cause of them to another friend who I've know for years. He was a little surprised but not really shocked ... also made the same comment that I've always been a bit "girly", e.g. gossip, not innto macho stuff.
My wife also knows that I have told this friend what is going on and why. I explained that I needed a friend to talk to, her immediate response was that she also needed a friend but had no one
I'm actually chatting over IM with him now and he's asking a few questions about what I do and such. Very open and no problems with it at all. I would guess most of my friends will be like that, it isn't a big deal to them I suppose.
Fiona,
The problem the patient takes to the psychologist is never the problem. I still believe that it's not all about the dressing.
[SIZE=4]Sophia[/SIZE]
[SIZE=3]See my comments below...[/SIZE]
...
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]
Love And Devotion To My Online Family
I'm outa the closet, but still inda house!
I have been away for a few days and didn't have internet access. Just caught up on reading this thread. It sounds much more encouraging than when I left. Just remember there was a reason (or reasons) you got married. Whatever they were, that hasn't changed. Good luck!
Debbie GG
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