Spouse needing help accepting husband being a c/d

[Mary L]

Penny--I empathize with your efforts to determine where the boundary is between supporting your husband and supporting yourself. You did not sign on in marriage to a CDer. Despite claims that "this is who we are," you did not agree to marry and live with a CDer. While I certainly would encourage you to go slow and make no decisions that you might regret, the rules of your relationship to your husband have changed and only you can determine whether or not the current rules allow for your own emotional needs to be satisfactorily met. On the other hand, what if your husband had become physically ill instead of crossdressing? Would you abandon him then? I doubt it. You would probably support him as best you could. Somewhere there is probably a balance point that will be a compromise satisfactory to both of you. Good luck!
Mary

[kerrianna]

Wow Pennie, I can see why you're upset with him, if he's just going ahead doing stuff without including you. I don't know exactly your situation, but from what you describe it seems to me like your husband is kind of operating like he's not part of a team. I can see why you're thinking of jumping ship if it's like that.

Carol and I went through something similar, and it was because leading into my opening up of my femme expression, we had already began to malfunction as a team. For a number of reason, over a long period of time, we drifted apart, and I especially began living in my own world more and not including her. My actions last summer forced us into a very direct confrontation and re-evaluation of what we were doing...more specifically what I was doing. She basically told me to make up my mind if I wanted to stay with her. We had some very long painful late night talks, and hashed out a lot of stuff. A lot of resentment I was holding back came out, a lot of stuff she had felt for a long time came out, and although it was touch and go for awhile, we eventually came out the other side intact and better for it.

For me it meant including her and respecting her. A good example is your husband's unilateral desire to expose himself to the world. I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing that, because it may be a very important part of his journey, but he shouldn't be doing it without talking to you first and including you. I don't know if he has tried, from what you say it sounds like he hasn't really included you, just dragged you along. That won't work obviously, and if he wants to be with you he needs to know that. How you communicate that I can't say because only you know what works with you guys. But he definitely needs to be working WITH you on this. Hopefully he can articulate what this all means to him (it's really hard for us to do that when we don't know either). He could have a number of gender identity issues he hasn't dealt with before. Hopefully you two can work together on him being able to find a way to explore this. But that means TOGETHER. That means if you tell him that body-shaving is right out, then he has to respect that. Maybe you can compromise and he shaves his legs once in awhile or whatever works.

Relationships are built on give and take, and need to be fluid and dynamic to survive. They need good communication and understanding. Respect and love. In my case I shut down that other stuff because I wanted my way. It was selfish and mis-guided on my part. I'm glad both Carol and I had the determination to work through it...and I know we will need to keep mindful of that in the future too.

If your husband isn't a member here maybe he would benefit from reading some of our experiences. Maybe not. It depends on him. If you guys want to survive as a couple you do have some very hard work and difficult conversations ahead. You need to have some 'rules' or agreements you both can live with...knowing that everything changes and that keeps hope up. I know that I have more freedom and understanding with my TG issues now than I ever thought I would back in the fall. It just took awhile for Carol to trust me again and see that I would be considerate of her and that all in all I am a better person for discovering and exploring this side of me.

Good luck Pennie, I do hope you stick with us and that we can help. But your husband is the one we need to reach right now too.

[Rikkicn]

For me it meant including her and respecting her. A good example is your husband's unilateral desire to expose himself to the world. I'm not saying he shouldn't be doing that, because it may be a very important part of his journey, but he shouldn't be doing it without talking to you first and including you.

I'm confused by this. I'm not sure what you mean by path here. If has something to do with life's destiny, self discovery, life's purpose perhaps. If it's any of these or something similar then the idea needing permission seems at odds.

[kerrianna]

I'm confused by this. I'm not sure what you mean by path here. If has something to do with life's destiny, self discovery, life's purpose perhaps. If it's any of these or something similar then the idea needing permission seems at odds.

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Rikki. It's not needing permission...it's respecting the fact that you are a team, and you include each other...especially on the big things. Every couple has their own way of doing things...I just know when I wasn't playing as part of a partnership team then I was given the option of carrying on by myself as my parnter DID want to still be part of the team. It wasn't that I was being denied permission...just that I was given the option of deciding for myself what was important to me. Everyone makes their own personal decisions. And like I said before, just because I made the decisions I did then doesn't mean I will tomorrow. I just know enough not to expect that I will necessarily have the company of my partner on my journey if I decide something is more important than my relationship with Carol. That's her decision she's free to make anytime too.

[danielle40I]

Penny, I believe Dana has given you some reasons to consider your own position in the matter.
I can speak from first hand experience that there is no "right or wrong" position that either you or your spouse can take. However, what can be right for him does not dictate that it be right for you.
My ex, with whom I spent ten years with, did all she could to understand me from her perspective and sense of reality. She knew of of my transgendered qualities within months of our meeting. She bought me clothes, jewelry, cosmetics,etc. Yet as I felt more confident in expressing who I was, she felt more threatened as to how she felt as a woman and a person. She did all she could to ride what was for her an emotional roller coaster.
Yet, allas, she found that she could not deal with the situation and felt compelled to ask me to leave. And I was left to deal with the rejection and abandonment that I still, at times, feel profound remorse for.
She is who and what she is, just as you are...and I am. That she could not come to acceptance of remaining with me on my journey through life was her choice. And her choice I choose to dignify and validate as her right as a human being to make. It is my choice to accept her choices as real and genuine.
There were many things left unsaid that might have helped to reconcile our differences. But she chose to leave them unsaid for her own reasons, for which I still have respect for.
Penny, you are deserving of a relationship that provides you support, nuturance and love...as does your husband. Look into your heart as you so desperately want him to look into his, and see beyond what is for what can be. Then ask yourself, how can I be the leader in this relationship, and then do all you can to ask him what he wants, what he needs in this relationship. If he is the person you have known for thirty years, have loved and cherished all that time, then you will find a person just like you...one with fears, doubts, hopes and dreams to be a better, more complete person.
Perhaps then you will be better able to answer the question of whether of not it is better to stay and be miserable or to leave and be at peace, contented and more fulfilled.

I pray that you both can be honest and respectful of one another as you resolve your differences.

Dani

[Michelia]

I cannot add to all the great advice given here except to say that for now please do not add to your burdens the doubt of whether your husband has been lying to you for 2 years or thirty. Although the ladies here are right that 98% of CDs are made early in life, there are exceptions. I am one of them. If anyone had ever told me a year ago I would be a CD'r later in life, I would have thought them utterly insane.

Michelia

[StephanieH]

Hey Pennie, Randi here. You've gotten some good advice here, but your second post I think speaks more to the real issue you're having. By the sound of it, your husband is being unreasonable and he needs to realize that.

Being in a successful relationship with a CD person is all about respect and boundaries. That goes both ways. If he's running around the front yard dressed like Daisy Duke when you've asked him not to, I think you have every right to be upset. If he's wearing nail polish when the neighbors come over and you've asked him not to, again, you have reason to be upset. That being said, communicate with him and let him know, point blank, how serious this is. Don't hedge or beat around the issue, get it out in the open and be honest about your feelings.

All that being said, be respectful of his feelings too. As has been said before, this likely isn't something he started just two years ago. He's likely dealt with this most of his life and has only recently felt comfortable enough to tell you about it. The fact that he trusts you enough with this "dark secret" should speak quite a bit that he loves you. And if he loves you, he WILL respect your boundaries and comfort zone. And if you love him, you WILL make compromises that allow him to be a little different at times. All things in moderation.

Don't be too hasty in throwing away half your life. There can be a happy middle ground here, I pray you two can find it.

[Rikkicn]

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree Rikki. It's not needing permission...it's respecting the fact that you are a team, and you include each other...especially on the big things. Every couple has their own way of doing things...I just know when I wasn't playing as part of a partnership team then I was given the option of carrying on by myself as my parnter DID want to still be part of the team. It wasn't that I was being denied permission...just that I was given the option of deciding for myself what was important to me. Everyone makes their own personal decisions. And like I said before, just because I made the decisions I did then doesn't mean I will tomorrow. I just know enough not to expect that I will necessarily have the company of my partner on my journey if I decide something is more important than my relationship with Carol. That's her decision she's free to make anytime too.

Perhaps you're right and we need to agree to disagree. I guess I wasn't willing to make an accommodation to my life's dreams and needs. My own life became my first priority. That decision has been rewarded many fold.

[JC]

Penny, i am a 54 year old man that enjoys dressing in women's clothes. i have been married for 34 years. i let my wife know about my deepest secret about 6 months ago.

i let her know as i hated to keep the secret. i had tried to stop over the years and teh urge always returned. i could not stop. i know alcoholics and my daughter was into drugs. they quit... i could not - have not been able to.

society said that i was bad for dressing. i had shame. i shared with her.... i took the risk of rejection. she can still reject - but i hope not. i pray not
!

i do profess to know the situtation - i just hope that you will listen to your heart. to share your thoughts with your spouse. to try to understand. i pray fo the best ...

jc

[Catherine in Colo]

With all due respect Rikki, it sounds as your life as a woman became not only your first priority, but your ONLY priority. Unfortunately, most of us are not so lucky as to be able to disregard all other aspects of our lives to pursue a transgendered lifestyle. Many of us, Pennie - and hopefully her husband - included, have jobs, families, and even marriages to consider in addition to their desire to pursue a tg lifestyle. What is a marriage if it's not a relationship where you care enough about someone else to consider their feelings as much as your own, and sometimes even more than your own?

Just as Pennie, by being here, is trying to understand and consider her husband's feelings, he also needs to be equally considerate of hers, unless he views his marriage as you apparently did - as less important than his own desires and a one-way street.

Pennie, as others have already suggested, we cders have a tendency to open the floodgates once the door is opened. It's great that you've found this forum, and I would invite your husband to do the same. If he's not already out there on the internet in search of support, this forum can provide a great place for him to share his feelings and get support, and hopefully to gain a little better perspective about moving slowly.

Good luck,
Renee

[Mary Morgan]

Pennie, As you have discovered, there is as borad a spectrum within the CD community as there is within any community. I applaud your willingness to try to understand all of this. I have been a CD all my life and I don't understand it. My wife and I have reached a level of cooperation that works for us. I dress and she finds others things to do. she doesn't wish to see me dressed, yet she shops for women's clothing, make-up, etc with me all the time. You give a little, you get a little. My point is that she is important to me, and I therefore accommodate her restrictions. I am important to her and therefore she accommodates my need to dress. Your problem is as much about cooperation and accommodation as it is about anything. Crossdressing is the trigger, it is not the problem. I wish you the very best.

[Sheri 4242]

Pennie, As you have discovered, there is as borad a spectrum within the CD community as there is within any community. I applaud your willingness to try to understand all of this. I have been a CD all my life and I don't understand it. My wife and I have reached a level of cooperation that works for us. I dress and she finds others things to do. she doesn't wish to see me dressed, yet she shops for women's clothing, make-up, etc with me all the time. You give a little, you get a little. My point is that she is important to me, and I therefore accommodate her restrictions. I am important to her and therefore she accommodates my need to dress. Your problem is as much about cooperation and accommodation as it is about anything. Crossdressing is the trigger, it is not the problem. I wish you the very best.

Pennie,

Louise has managed to say in a few words what a number of us have written paragraph after paragraph. There are ways to work through this! That said, your husband needs to be willing to accept your limitations and give you time to grow in understanding. You can't be expected to just jump right in and say, "hey, anything you want to do with this is fine." That would defy realistic expectations in all but a very few situations! Boundaries are important -- and they can be moved and/or renegotiated as time goes by. There is a tendency by many a CD to go "full speed ahead." Tell your husband, in love, that you need time and whatever boundaries you need.

[Rikkicn]

a transgendered lifestyle.

For me, this isn't a life style, or a hobby or a way to relax and it isn't a choice unless you choose to be miserable. I have to live this life or some part of me will die. I wasn't interested in pursuing a transgendered life style, I was interested in pursuing my life. I decided that I wanted people in my life that would support and encourage me.
Your right, family makes everything more difficult. I didn't have any children and my parents had passed. My only relative, my brother is slowly warming up to the idea.
When I left my ex I crossdressed but with my new found freedom to fully express myself I wanted more than part time. I didn't want to put my self away anymore. I wanted my real clothes to be hanging in the closet and not stashed in a box in the basement. I pursued happiness with the same intensity as drowning man gasps for air.
I met a woman and we fell and love. She knows everything there is to know about me...everything. She loves my heart and has and is supporting me in every decision I make. She supports me with love and joy in her heart as does my new family of 4 brothers and in law, sisters in law and kids galore and of course her parents.
I'm just trying to say that we don't have to settle, we can have it all!

[Rikkicn]

What is a marriage if it's not a relationship where you care enough about someone else to consider their feelings as much as your own, and sometimes even more than your own?

I agree with you more than I can express, which Is why I stayed for 7 years after coming out to her. Waiting for her to read the books, go to therapy, join me at support group meetings. Asking her to go with me became harder as I was always rejected. I gave up. I was so tired of trying to win her approval. I didn't the energy to keep trying.
How much longer should I have put my needs aside? Two more years, five? maybe 10? Always hoping that one day she would learn to love all of me.

What is a marriage?
I ask my wife with tears in my eyes "How can I be more loving? How can I be more kind? This is line from Hafiz.
This is what a marriage means to me. For this woman I would give my life. She has given me so much that it is the least I can do.
Being loved for who you are and unconditionally supported feels like there is warm sunshine pouring into the damp, dark corners of your soul, warming and caressing you to life.
We all deserve this.
We all need this.

[sterling12]

Hi Pennie:

Here's another suggestion. I'm not sure where you are located but you and your spouse might investigate joining a Tri-Ess Chapter. Tri-Ess was originally set up for The CD AND HIS WIFE. Chapters have a lot of GGs who have and are experiencing the same things that you are going through. Often these Gals can show you great empathy and explain a lot about their relationships which might help.

At the two local chapters I belong to, The ladies often meet separately. They feel that it really helps the Spouse a lot and you will make a lot of friends.

As some of the good ladies have been kind enough to explain to me, what is said at their meeting is private. But, they have given me a rough idea of what is going on; sometimes they discuss something "heavy", sometimes they get very light-hearted and just have a lot of fun laughing about the whole situation. Sometimes they talk about everything but CD. Sometimes, one of The Gals just needs to "vent", and that's OK too.

I think what the both of you will find, if you join such a group, is that CD is just another "situation" in a marriage. It can be dealt with, and virtually all of the people you meet will not be "weirdo's", "crazies", or "perverts." Just couples who share something in common with you and your spouse. In fact, I can just about guarentee that you will meet people that you genuinely like.

If you need more info, please PM me when you get 10 messages posted. I'll try to answer any questions I can.

Peace and Love, Joanie

[Sheri 4242]

". . . I have been married for 30 years but that's not the issue . . . I'm trying to deal with a person I have been spent half my life with, that I now don't know who he/she is.That's the issue!! The fact he shaved all his hair just shocked me. He painted his nails, toes bright red, our neighbor came over and he had no shoes on, it totally embrassed me. I have asked him to remove the polish which he still hasn't. He works in our yard with super shorts on that I hate!! Again, I have asked him not to but he stills does. I can handle change but I married a man and I want to be married to a man. I thought that by posting some of my issues I could try to understand something about it. Just because YOU decide to do something in a marriage like this doesn't mean the other person has to accept it. I might post again I'm not sure."

Pennie,

I think you are entirely within all reasonableness to ask that he not do things like parade around with nail polish on in the way you describe, especialy since that is way beyond your tolerance level. There needs to be set boundaries to help establish balance. Boundaries can always be moved "if" your comfort level changes, but this needs to be a mutual thing and not what it sounds like, which is that he is acting like it is all about him "come hell or high water" to quote an old adage.

On another point you noted: most SO's of CDers that I know who have become accepting (and even encouraging), have times when they need their husband to be their man. This aspect is, in fact, part of the balance that makes some relationships successful -- that the husband (or bf) understands that it isn't all about him, and that he comprehends that there are times when his wife needs her man. Any husband who isn't sensitive to this is, seemingly, putting thier wants and desires before that of their wife and before the health of their marriage.

Is there any possible way you could get your husband to join in on here? Now that he is acting the way he is -- and with you reaching out attempting to glean understanding -- IMO it would be very good for him to hear from his CD peers.

I hope you will keep posting -- this isn't something you should go through alone! You've got GGs and CDers here who truly understand what you are going through!

[noname]

I can handle change but I married a man and I want to be married to a man.

Perhaps some perspective. My wife is 5' 4". When I married by my wife she was 160lbs. Within a year of getting married to my wife she gained about 65 lbs. She refuses to wear makeup, and has never cut her hair and rarely styles it. She is a far cry from what I married or consider an ideal woman. The doctor said she just needed a better diet and exercise. I tried to get her to work out by working out with her, buying gym memberships, and 20 other things. She refuses to eat healthy and work out. I can try to encourage her to do the right thing, but am met with anger. So here I am at 5' 10" and 160lbs and phyically fit, and most people don't even guess we are a couple.

In short, you can't make anyone do or not do anything. Think of this, your husband probably wants to wear toenail polish bad. Odd stares or comments from people or neighbors is not enough of a deturent. So I'm guessing it's pretty important to him right now. Yes you feel humiliated. But I'm guessing the core of that is your feeling this is lowering your social status. As for the nail polish, try to see it for what it is. It's paint and nothing more.

[kittypw GG]

Rikkicn,
Honestly you are not helping poor Pennie. All of these posts with excuses for your bad behavior, who are you trying to convince that your anger is justified? Us or yourself? Seriously, holding on to all of your anger and hurt is totally not healthy. I don't think I can think of one positive thing you have said to a gg struggleing with the knowledge that her hubby is a cd. With all of your goings on Pennie has said she may not post again. Now did that help the cause?

Ok we get that you were once abandonded because of your fetishes and your crossdressing. That has got to suck when someone rejects you when you have revieled yourself to them but you got to get over it
When you hang on to so much anger it eats at you like cancer and alters who you are. You end up pushing everyone away and you end up very lonely.

All you have accomplished with your ramblings to Pennie's situation is to add insult to her injury. We need to enlighten and lift up partners who are dealing with this. It is a big shock to deal with after you have lived with someone for 30 years and you think that you should know them. Start your own angry thread if you need help but don't throw all of your garbage on a new person reaching out for our help. :mad: It is just not fair and personally you make me not want to accept cd'ing if you are the example of what one is.
Kitty

[MsJanessa]

I agree with you more than I can express, which Is why I stayed for 7 years after coming out to her. Waiting for her to read the books, go to therapy, join me at support group meetings. Asking her to go with me became harder as I was always rejected. I gave up. I was so tired of trying to win her approval. I didn't the energy to keep trying.
How much longer should I have put my needs aside? Two more years, five? maybe 10? Always hoping that one day she would learn to love all of me.

What is a marriage?
I ask my wife with tears in my eyes "How can I be more loving? How can I be more kind? This is line from Hafiz.
This is what a marriage means to me. For this woman I would give my life. She has given me so much that it is the least I can do.
Being loved for who you are and unconditionally supported feels like there is warm sunshine pouring into the damp, dark corners of your soul, warming and caressing you to life.
We all deserve this.
We all need this.

Actually the sad fact of the matter is that some SOs and GGs can accept a transgendered/cd spouse and some can't---that doesn't mean that the ones who can't accept it are bad people, it means that they went into a relationship expecting one thing and when it turned into something else they couldn't accept it---at least not in a 24/7 way that you really have to with a spouse. If you have an SO who does accept it, you are really lucky and if you have an SO who doesn't and has chosen to end the relationship, then you have to move on.

[Rikkicn]

Rikkicn,
Honestly you are not helping poor Pennie. All of these posts with excuses for your bad behavior, who are you trying to convince that your anger is justified? Us or yourself? Seriously, holding on to all of your anger and hurt is totally not healthy. I don't think I can think of one positive thing you have said to a gg struggleing with the knowledge that her hubby is a cd. With all of your goings on Pennie has said she may not post again. Now did that help the cause?

Ok we get that you were once abandonded because of your fetishes and your crossdressing. That has got to suck when someone rejects you when you have relieved yourself to them but you got to get over it
When you hang on to so much anger it eats at you like cancer and alters who you are. You end up pushing everyone away and you end up very lonely.

All you have accomplished with your ramblings to Pennie's situation is to add insult to her injury. We need to enlighten and lift up partners who are dealing with this. It is a big shock to deal with after you have lived with someone for 30 years and you think that you should know them. Start your own angry thread if you need help but don't throw all of your garbage on a new person reaching out for our help. :mad: It is just not fair and personally you make me not want to accept cd'ing if you are the example of what one is.
Kitty

I wasn't abandoned, I left her because she wouldn't try to accept who I was. It was the best most excruciating thing I have ever done. I loved her but could no longer live with her. We're good friends now and all is well. The day I told her is still in my mind and the sadness on her face will remain with me. For my own well being it was critical.
My anger is directed at those who always, without hesitation take the side of the wife or SO without giving due consideration to the crossdresser and what their lives have been like and experiences created for them. If we can't get support and understanding here...then were do we go next?
I worry about the thousands of cder's that read her post and see that happening to themselves so they don't tell their life long secret and continue to live unhappily.
I don't want or need your acceptance...I get that from my own heart, as we all can. Isn't that the best way after all..to find it within?
I'm happier than you can imagine, my life is full of friends family and love. The only sadness in my life is the way that cder's are treated and how we often hurt ourselves. Too many of us suffer deeply, from the shame and quilt of growing up different and sometimes we don't even know that is going on inside...we just feel bad.
Perhaps I'm not as articulate as needed and I wish I was a better writer. I would love to be able to express myself better but this is what I'm capable of doing for now.
I'll stop and not post anymore on this thread or others here. If anyone wants to reach me or read more of what I write then you'll find me in my profile.
My life's mission is to make it a better world for crossdressers and help them to find whatever it takes to lead a truly wonderful life.
I hold meetings for closeted cder's in my home. Next spring will be my first one day work shop on crossdressing and healing, leading to a full weekend after that. I'm doing all I can think of.
Thanks to those that took the time to read and I hope that some of you found my mad, angry ramblings worth even a little consideration.
Write if you want to chat. You now know one person that will give you unconditional support and encouragement.
Love to all

[kay2]

Dear Pennie,
Your coming to this forum shows you are a thoughtful person, and are willing to confront what is a hard issue for you. I admire that. Your feelings are yours - it really isn't important if others don't agree with them. You are who you are - it is not a flaw if you simply are not attracted to your husband when he appears more feminine. In fact, it is quite understandable.

Perhaps your husband has suffered in silence for a long time over this issue. His hiding that part of himself from you might reflect that he loved you too much to risk losing you by telling you. His "coming out" is brave, and I admire that too.

You are being fair and honest by telling your husband your needs, and he is being fair and honest when he makes his choices. It is up to each of you to decide what you can accept in the other. If that process is hard, I highly recommend involving a therapist in your process.

My best wishes to you and your husband.

[kay2]

Some of the posts in this thread strike me as very caring and insightful. I just blip over the ones where contributors are working on their own challenges.

[Dixie Darling]

Pennie,

Please have a look at the material on my web site. It may answer a lot of the questions you have as well as help you overcome some of the anxieties you are experiencing. As a suggestion, have your husband look at the material WITH you and discuss it between you as you read. There is material there which is specifically for wives/girlfriends as well as material specifically for crossdressers. Your husband may benefit a LOT from reading some of the pages since there is a lot of information about what he SHOULDN'T be doing. All the material is CLEAN so you have no need to be concerned that you would find anything that would be an embarrassment to either of you.

Dixie -- http://www.geocities.com/senorita_cd

[yvonne10]

his crossdressing does not make him a differant person he is still the man you married and probbley still loves you as much now as he ever did

[Dasein9]

Pennie, I just want to take a moment in all the discussion to say this:

{{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}

I hope this thread helps you and your husband. All the advice and personal stories may be overwhelming, so take your time. If you don't mind, I'll be holding you and your husband in the Light. (That's Quaker for praying for you, in a way without any judgement or condemnation.)