SO acceptance struggle - why acceptance might be hard

We all know that having an accepting wife for your crossdressing can be a great bless in your life. However, in reality many of us struggled with our wife. To many of us who are crossdressers, the theory to sell seems to be pretty straight forward. If a wife loves a husband, shouldn't you love the whole of him, even if it includes a small harmless fault such as wanting to wear women's cloth? After all, husbands could have a lot more other serious problems (e.g., too much alcohol, too much golfing / fishing, etc). Why the acceptance of crossdressing is so much a rarity?

I have had this struggle with my SO on crossdressing for many years, and it goes no where. I have pretty much come to realize that that might be impossible with her. But why?

I happened to read a couple of articles online, and to me it might be a clue. The gist of the theory there is that women has a primal need of a "male image" in their husband. Even if their conscious tells them "crossdressing" is just a superficial issue, it indeed touches their emotion nerves. So it is not as simple as rationalize what harm it has, and it goes deeper than that. If that seems true, this theory could also explain that some women are against their husband's crossdressing even if he only does it at home behind closed doors when nobody knows (because it hurts their image of their husband). This could also explain another side that some women are also against their husband doing it on their own away without wife participating (because it hurts their image of their husband, even if she did not see it).

Here are the links:

http://www.sisterhouse.net/familyroo...pinion-of-you/
http://www.sisterhouse.net/familyroo...mage/#post-634

What do you think? Are we really hopeless in getting our wife's acceptance?

This is just my :2c:

The CDer wives that I know are from my SO's CD group. The ones that knew prior to the marriage are more accepting. The ones that learned later, (sometimes much later), were less accepting, almost feeling trapped and betrayed. They feel like they didn't marry a CDer and didn't have the option of not marrying one. The wives of SO's that are contemplating more than just women's clothes (pierced ears, permanent hair removal, hormones, etc) are less than thrilled.

Most women know prior to marriage if there is an alcohol/drug problem, golf/fishing/hunting hobby. They usually know how much time is spent with those outside pursuits. A CDer who keeps secrets can't expect the wife to be overjoyed at the big reveal. I know that my experience is very limited but it seems to be an uphill battle when the CDer waits to spring the big surprise on the wife after marriage.

CDing in itself is harmless. It's when there is sneaking, lying, hiding things, etc. behaviors that really turn the wives off to the whole thing. There is no typical couple as there is no typical CDer. Everyone's situation is different.

The "male image" is a good theory. I love my SO's male image. When he is dressed as a woman - I still see the man that I married.

Good points, Char.
We have to remember, what if the shoe were on the other foot. See what they are going through.
Men are very visual. We love beautiful women. They know this, and that is why billions are spent on hair, cosmetics, cute shoes and clothes.
But would you have wanted to date your wife if she had been unattractive, way back in the beginning?
How would you feel if your wife got rid of her cute clothes and shoes. If she got a buzz-cut for hair. And got something that caused her to grow a little mustache? Maybe a beard? If she used cosmetics to look older than her true age?
"But honey, I am still the same person on the inside! Why can't you just understand? I will never get a breast reduction--not likely--at least.""

I think you've touched on something there. My marriage was a complete disaster in that regard. I came out to her, and she always held it over my head, making snide remarks about my crossdressing. She also blabbed to her family which cause so much drama that we never truly recovered.

As for the male, I agree. I'm not an alpha male, I'm not the take-charge sort of guy. I'm a cross between the two genders, which is totally confusing for me. I can't even imagine what it's like for her. She cheated on me with various alpha types, and the same thing with my next relationship. So many women do want a strong male that admitting you're a crossdresser seems to be a dealbreaker.

I have told my SO and showed her my pictures very very early in our relationship (way before we got married). So it is not the secrecy issue. And she still had trouble with my dressing till today. I know everyone's relationship is different. But I guess this must have something to do with "male image" from what I knew of her reactions.

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Originally Posted by char GG

This is just my :2c:

...........................The wives of SO's that are contemplating more than just women's clothes (pierced ears, permanent hair removal, hormones, etc) are less than thrilled. .................................................. ......................CDing in itself is harmless. It's when there is sneaking, lying, hiding things, etc. behaviors that really turn the wives off to the whole thing. There is no typical couple as there is no typical CDer. Everyone's situation is different. ..............................

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I had asked her a couple of times if she would have a problem if I got my ears pierced; which she would reply, go ahead, but I didn't feel like she was really okay with it. It took my wife many years to get to the point where she asked me if I would like to get my ears pierced for my birthday. I was always honest with her, I didn't hid anything from her. We have been together for a long time and our kids have grown up and moved out. I know that early on, she was always worried about what others would think of her, the stigma of being married to a crossdresser; which is what my youngest daughter used to tell her. For a long time, my other daughters thought that she was trying to break us up.

Leslie,
I fully understand your point about the male image, I guess the wife may also think why does he want to shrug off the male image by wearing women's clothes ?
I wrote a while ago about women never fully understanding simply because the don't have another trait in their brains, they are never going to relate to something that they will never experience ! All we can do is hope we get enough understanding and acceptance to satisfy our dressing needs.

Char,
You hit on something I've tried to get through to my wife for a while now, my CDing is not going to stop no matter what she says or does to try and prevent me but she does realise how mentally wearing it is to keep hiding behind closed doors and trying to keep secrets from her, the lying and sneaking behind her back is ridiculous . I told her a while ago that have to it's got to stop other mentally I'm being pushed down the road I almost ended up on twenty years ago when I nearly ended my life. It wasn't through the CDing but the feeling of being rejected and unloved caused by it. Now she tells me it's my problem and it's up to me to sort it out, it does beg the question in a DADT relationship how you sort it when your wife doesn't want to talk about it and yet she may be involved in my decisions .

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Originally Posted by DanaR

I know that early on, she was always worried about what others would think of her, the stigma of being married to a crossdresser; which is what my youngest daughter used to tell her.

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That's another thing that seems to defy logic sometimes. Yes it might be embarrassing to be associated with a crossdresser (but it is getting less and less of an issue now). But what is that potential embarrassment (which is largely in your own mind anyway) compared to a deep seated (almost biological) desire from someone you truly "love". Or is that "loved one's happiness" not so important any more in front of wife's own insecurity?

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Originally Posted by char GG

When he is dressed as a woman - I still see the man that I married.

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Char, you are one of the rare ones who does see through the surface issue. And once you saw that, a lot of problems are indeed not problems. But I am afraid that most wife can not.

For many women who have a working life and a domestic/family one to juggle the notion that an SO can dress up for fun is fairly insulting. The time and money issues involved, the damage to her own sexual identity and self-image are enormous and the final difficulty is that there is nothing in this for her; she is just a bystander.

Yes, you may have a need but you are not the person she married when you are dressed; you are asking her to believe that you are also a woman. Women choose their female companions from an entirely different criteria than men. Just because you put on a frock does not make you a female companion.

If you can get your head around some of these issues not only do you and your wife have something to talk about, but you may wind up with more understanding.

Allsteamedup,
To say there's nothing in it for her is not entirely correct, I can only speak from my own perspective but my wife has reached the point in her life where her main interests are her grand children her level of intimacy has dropped right off .( nothing to do with CDing !) She has told me that my CDing is my problem to sort out, I have tried to point out to her that because of these circumstances I'm struggling to function, if she can try and give me a little support and understanding now to get me through this I can repay her by being a happier and more helpful partner ! Being a bystander is not helping her either .
I don't think my wife is insulted by me thinking I'm doing it just for fun , if that were the case I wouldn't be that selfish to do it at all ! I would like to be more open with my dressing so my mental state improves and I could be more of a companion to her no matter how I'm dressed !

Leslie, I think you are on the right track.

The way I often put it might come across as a bit snarky but the fact of the matter is that guys are generally cool being the dudes they are and women are generally attracted to said dudes. Blame sociology, blame biology as you are suggesting, but either way the gender binary we exist in isn't going anywhere.

There are certainly men who migrate somewhat into the gray area along with women who are attracted to them but most of us in these pages are pushing the envelop much further and most women naturally recoil.

Bottom line, you wish to present in such a way that offends your wife's sensibilities in terms of both biology and sociology. She may be worried about your standing in the community, whether you end up being discovered during an outing or if you choose to out yourself. Both of these upset the nest that has been carefully cultivated over the course of years. She might have not only zero attraction to the thought of you in a female image but also may be absolutely repulsed at the thought of her husband, her man, presenting as a female.

Given the enormity of these hurdles, I don't see a lot of hope in changing the perceptions of this whole thing that many SO's harbor. I suspect you are coming to realize this to be true in your world. The question is where do you wish to take it from here.

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Originally Posted by Sara Jessica

Given the enormity of these hurdles, I don't see a lot of hope in changing the perceptions of this whole thing that many SO's harbor. I suspect you are coming to realize this to be true in your world. The question is where do you wish to take it from here.

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Sara, you are exactly right about where I am. I think I am coming to that realization and this theory helps. There is a difference between she does not accept me because she does not care about me enough or she can help it because it is primal. That sometimes can affect which way it goes, which is the next question.

Thanks,

Leslie

This is why ive always told women very early on in relationships. Kind of like if you want to run, run now approach. Even this hasn't always worked. I was married to a woman for two years in my twenties who was very accepting. We were friends and roommates first. Then we became a romantic couple long after she had seen me dressed. She didn't have a lot of female friends and enjoyed our girl time together. Then one day she told me that she couldn't be married to a CD any more. I believe she told her sister who in turn told her parents. Though she never admitted it, I believe her family got in her head and their influence ended the relationship. One day things were great and then after spending significant time with her family while I travelled for work she wanted out. It didn't add up. After the divorce she tried hard to stay in contact with me.

And now even though I've been with my wife ten years I worry she could change her mind. Relationships are tough even without adding this extra burden to it

This is a great topic. One of the main reasons why I am here is because of my marriage and me not wanting it to end. Beyond that, I still want my marriage to be a good strong marriage, not one that is merely hanging by a thread. Because of this, I have absorbed all of what the GG's say on here like a sponge. Granted, they are not at all the same by any means, but there are some commonalities and I see those same commonalities (some) with my wife as well.

No bigger issue than the feelings of loss of trust and betrayal. Regardless of society or biology, that one stands by itself. GG's will always feel a sense of distrust, or not being able to trust so easily. They will also likely feel betrayed, by any lifelong secret which still impacts us today.

The biology take on this is fairly simple. Most women desire men. It is just in the genes, just like most men desire women. It is those difference that are attracted. The feel of a man's body, the sound of their voice, the way they carry themselves. Beyond that, just the subtle differences in personalities that men generally have that women do not. Even though we may not be TS, we are still going off the path of being fully male, at least temporarily.

While it may be "just clothes" as so many of us say, in reality, even for most CDers, it is a lot deeper than that. For one, what is the motivation, what IS it that drives us to put the "just clothes" on in the 1st place. And really, it is a full presentation for most here. Wig/long hair, make up, long nails, shaved bodies, body shape enhancers- and of course the ability to act or be the part of how women act, mannerisms, voice perhaps... and many CDers here have things we like that are more typical of likes and interests that women have.

We have something internal going on, that is way deeper than just the superficial wearing of women's clothing. Where does that really end and start gender wise? Besides the deviation of being a cisgender male, which likely is not an attraction in any sense, if not something that is naturally unattractive to them, they must deal with a fear of where will it all go? It is one thing to take a time out... accept a part of him that likes to be her, but what if the her wins out? what if she loses him to her completely? There are several members on here who signed up and were just CDers with no plans to transition, who are now transitioning. Most won't, but some do and will. How do they ever really know if their man will become someone who goes through transition. Especially when many who start off as CDers don't know it themselves.... yet.

If the GG's manage to get past those hurdles, then comes good old society. Kids may be bullied, friends and family members often do not accept. potential job loss, even assault on outings can and has happened. It has happened to members on this board.

our GG partners have many hurdles and very high ones to get past with acceptance. There is so much more to it than "just clothes." From the feelings of lack or loss of trust and betrayal, to their own biology, to the fear of the future and the unknown, to society and its harsh lack of acceptance. For all of us who have GG partners who have not left us, we need to understand that it is not an easy road for them just as it is not an easy road for us.

I was fortunate to have a wife that accepted and supported my cross dressing. I came out to her while we were still dating, as I wanted her to know this about me and not keep it a secret. She accepted my activity and even gave me one of her nightgowns. It was a secret that I only shared with my wife for 40 years until she passed last year. Since then, I've been slowly becoming more open with my cross dressing. (Still not walking out the door in broad daylight dressed en femme.) Its been over a year now since my wife's passing. I hope to find another woman to share my life with. I know I will have to tell her like I did my wife if the relationship starts to get serious. Some of my female acquaintances are already aware, so the telling gets easier. At my age, it would be a hard choice. Would I have to give up something I've done all my life, cross dressing for the sought after companionship of a woman?

Leslie:
You have hit my life directly on the head. I'm in the same situation. And it hope for understanding, and little more.

Excellent response by gendermutt.

Leslie,

Whenever I read posts like yours, I am so touched. After 45+ years of marriage to an amazingly understanding woman, my heart goes out to you. So much of how our wives and GF's react depends on their individual psyches and upbringing.

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Originally Posted by LeslieSD

Why the acceptance of crossdressing is so much a rarity?

I have had this struggle with my SO on crossdressing for many years, and it goes no where. I have pretty much come to realize that that might be impossible with her. But why?

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Perhaps because those special accepting ladies are so rare. Maybe our society's values are the problem? For what is is worth as Sue and I proceed into our golden years, Claire is becoming much more a part of our life. It's no longer about the sex, or the image ... it's more about sharing things together. She has never been a conventional person, and for that I am eternally grateful.

I understand exactly where you are coming from Claire but you have to be careful. While your wife's acceptance is absolutely something to cherish, any woman who cannot get their arms around this towards a similar degree of acceptance is no less special. Attraction, society, biology...whatever the reason, those are powerful things to overcome and some women just cannot do it. Not their fault in any way.

Sara,

Absolutely I agree. I certainly was not being critical of non-accepting wives / GF's -- just trying to understand, which I think is the point of Leslie's OP. Too often I think we tend to look at things from our point of view, and perhaps that is why we have difficulty in understanding or accepting their point of view.

Thanks,

Claire

Women are like light switches, on and off quickly. From the first day I told my wife she was good about it and told me there are worst things in life. Then we were on vacation and we got a private balcony in which gave me some freedom. One night I was sunburned and tired and I wanted to rest in the room. Well she didn't want to stay alone and then accused me that I wanted to go back to the room so I could dress on the balcony. That was it, vacation ruined and I wouldn't want anything to do with dressing burned like that and she wanted nothing to do with my dressing for months, and gave me a hard time when ever I had a chance. Slowly she came around but she maybe forgave but I didnt forget how they turn so fast when it's not about them. When I start crossing the line I could see the difference in her attitude. Can't figure them out seems like timing is everything, what's good today isn't good tomorrow.

I totally agree with the original post by Leslie. I think many wives want/need a man. And the cross dressing takes away from that image, to say the least.
Although the converse is true too. I want a feminine sexy wife - and she is that most of the time but she also has times where she'd rather feel strong and tom-boyish. And I can love her that way too - as long as she doesn't become that 100% of the time - but id still love her if that's who she really was.
I'd rather see us as companions, partners, lovers, no matter what image we produce.

Maria, I guess one easy way to try to understand how GG's feel when it appears that they are wavering on acceptance is how we felt about ourselves early on. At least for most, and definitely myself, there was a lot of back and forth of my own acceptance and feelings about dressing and what it all is or means. While it often is not the case, many GG's will say they feel like they are in competition with another female, only rather than another person, the female they are talking about is within us. When we are dressing, they often feel that they are not able to give us what we want or need, because it is already being met by our own inner femininity. That is so often completely untrue, but that is a natural feeling many GG's have. For those of us who are in some sort of a DADT type of arrangement, that can be further magified as we then do choose the other woman so to speak or our wives. Even though we are not really feeling like our dressing is taking their place in any way.