Telling the SO, Bad Reaction, Giving up CD'ing

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Originally Posted by mklinden2010

I have always disagreed with the "Write 'em!" crowd. It's cowardly, it's clumsy, it's written evidence...

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Your statement is incorrectly done, and appears as especially arrogant. You should instaed have written something like that :

"In my opinion, it's cowardly (...)"

This is your opinion indeed, and only your opinion. You don't have to show it here as if were the truth.
Others may disagree with you and are entitled to do it, since it's a matter of circumstances and of the people involved. There is not an only way to handle properly delicate situations. It depends on the people concerned and on the relationship. People who would act differently from you may have good reasons to do it which you can't understand yet. :2c:

Reading this thread has been a little like passing a car crash, kind of hard to turn away, especially given the divergent opinions and advice in response.

Georgi, there's not a lot I can add from an advice standpoint. Your situation is foreign to me because my wife knew of my tg side long before we were married. That said, you made comments in response to the others which I find troubling...

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Originally Posted by Georgi

I thought I'd share this with those who were considering telling their SOs because one of the major reasons I finally caved in and told her was the constant counseling of the 'tell her, tell her' crowd on this forum. I thought it appropriate to hear an opposing viewpoint.

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I'm having difficulty with this, that you would make such a momentous decision because a bunch of "experts" in cyberspace suggested that you enter into full-disclosure mode after gosh knows how many years of marriage. Geez, we have much more influence than I could have ever imagined.

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Originally Posted by Georgi

I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.

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Something isn't adding up. Weeks to compose a letter, presented on July 5, a techniqe supposedly inspired by the "how-to-tell-your-SO" thread, yet you've only been a member since "July 2010". Not only were you influenced but you were speed-influenced. We're clearly very talented in these parts! Again, weeks to compose the letter? Maybe I'm missing something and if so, please help me understand.

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Originally Posted by Nadia-Maria

Your statement is incorrectly done, and appears as especially arrogant. You should instaed have written something like that :

"In my opinion, it's cowardly (...)"

This is your opinion indeed, and only your opinion. You don't have to show it here as if were the truth.
Others may disagree with you and are entitled to do it, since it's a matter of circumstances and of the people involved. There is not an only way to handle properly delicate situations. It depends on the people concerned and on the relationship. People who would act differently from you may have good reasons to do it which you can't understand yet. :2c:

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Saying, "I," in my response, pretty much covers the "my opinion" bit.

And, ONLY my opinion means a lot to me - count on it.

But, what is "the" truth that you speak of?

Do share - I think, in my opinion, to my limited understanding, as I see things, as I grasp the concept, to my mind, as it seems to me - it's why we're here.

Here is a variation of what we are witnessing here.

Now the subjects are much different than Men presenting a women.

It however involves something that is part of your soul and being, and if you lose it the effects can be devastating.

Not only am I androdynous, and Goth...I am also a pilot. Coursing through my veins is the "disease" of the want to at least once a month to be in the presence of machines that are dirty, smell, emit noxious fumes and have a high chance of killing you if you are stupid. But the feeling of flying is like no other, especially when on you own, and have no need to communicate with the outside world.

Several years ago one of the "old men of the airport" an older gentleman that had been flying since WWII, who owned his own airplane came to visit my boss's hanger. That day he was not the happy joking guy he usually was before getting his trusty steed out of the hanger and taking it up for a few hours.

This day though he was clearly troubled. His wife started acting stupid about his flying. Though not puking in the toilet, she was putting up a stink about the plane (this guy was filthy rich, so it was not anything about finances). They were married I think two or more years.

He said she had given him an ultimatum after months of limitations on his flying. (this guy was seriously P.W. an unpleasant term applied to men that collapse to the whims of the wife so they don't lose sex) When my boss, another older man, who served in the Chech air force also during WWII, looked at his friend and said "What?! She's telling you to get rid of the Bonanza or she leaves? Tell her to F&%k herself!!!" The conversation continued in much the same vein.

Couple of weeks later the plane was sold, and all was supposedly well. That old guy did not fly and vanished from the airport for about a month, or so we thought.

Then one day he shambled in, slumped shoulders, dejected look. We learned that he indeed went flying in a rental plane, and she learned. She left him. Now he was without his wonderful machine, and divorced.

Though on a different scale, CDing is very much like flying. There are those that can consider both a selfish act (Pilots who can afford it can spend many hours flying solo, flying only for their own enjoyment).

My reaction to Gerogi's wife is kinda based on the recollection of this example of supreme selfishness, and stupidity. Selfishness on the part of the woman and stupidity on the part of the guy that tried to give up flying.

Just like CDing you can't stop flying when aviation is a part of your being.

Sorry for your wife's reaction. I seem to think that you did everything right as far as telling her when you did. I don't see anything wrong with your presentation.

Many of us didn't know how cd'ing worked when we were young. In my case I thought it was over when I married my wife. Several years later I had a relapse (so to speak), but a lot of my early cd'ing was sexual. So I continued to believe that it could be beaten. Now at age 50 I see that it changed and left me different. I would have made a lot of changes earlier if I knew then what I know now.

I think your story speaks to the difficulties many of us who didn't tell early have when telling a spouse later in life. It doesn't go well. A lot of times it rips the marriage apart. When I told my wife it was in hopes of repairing an already failing marriage. All that it did was speed up the process and end earlier. Which I am not unhappy about, just disappointed. I think the lesson which can be learned here is to tell the woman before you commit to them. Before you marry them. I think telling them early allows you to get to the one which will love you unconditionally faster and weed out a lot of heartache. What is the difference between being alone and being miserable? Not much in my book. Both leave you depressed and the feeling of abandonment.

Now the problem that you need to address with a therapist is how to deal with things not getting better between the two of you. It may take a long time for her, before the 2 of you get back to a semi-normal marriage. That will be hard and hopefully you will be successful.

One thing that I didn't read is how old you are? How many years have you been married? Does religion play a part in her non-acceptance? Do you have any kids? I think these items are part of the story about her non-acceptance.

Good luck to both of you. Hopefully you will find a way to patch up the marriage and live a long life together.

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Originally Posted by melissacd

The real problem is not the CDing, it is the unwillingness of your wife to be open to the idea that there are aspects of you that she may not like but, out of her love for you, should be willing to try and understand.

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Awesome statement! :thumbsup: That sentence right there is the very crux of the issue. "... be willing to try and understand" If a perosn really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?. Putting one's head in the sand is not going to accomplish anything. Hopefully after the initial shock has worn off, perhaps you can save your marriage by both of you going to a councilor to talk about this.

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

Awesome statement! :thumbsup: That sentence right there is the very crux of the issue. "... be willing to try and understand" If a perosn really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?. Putting one's head in the sand is not going to accomplish anything. Hopefully after the initial shock has worn off, perhaps you can save your marriage by both of you going to a councilor to talk about this.

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Yep, hers is the other side of the street that has to respond better than tossing her cookies, running to Mom and/or the lawyers.

I've had three really solid SOs (I've been married or in an SO relationship most of my life) who heard me out, thought it over, and, our lives went on just fine.

It wasn't all me - it wasn't all them - it was us.

You can do a lot of dumb things and the right SO will get you through it.

Works the other way too.

If it works, that's how it works.

At work, I always begin meetings by discussing with the participants the purpose of the meeting: why we're here and what we want to accomplish. Meetings don't go well if there's no agreement on this.
If you (as a couple) are considering going to counseling, you must discuss the reasons you're there: if you want her to accept your CD-ing and she's there to get you cured, counseling will fail. Sort of: the counselor still gets paid.

I'm not good at the multiple quote thing, so I'll write another summary response:

On the letter thing - Let it go. I did mis-quote the How to Tell You Partner thread. It said to take notes and use them to help you talk to her. I should have done the same, using my letter as a guide to help me talk to my wife. But that's history except for discussion of how to do it better. But quit with the yelling and screaming.

Georgi - I chose this as my name because it's the Russian form of George, so I chose a boy's name for myself for the forum, not a girl's name. I've chosen to give myself a male identity on this forum to help guide myself in trying to stick to my plan of submerging the crossdressing.

The Immature Attitude - Thanks for pointing out that Silhouette surely was talking about the wife. I apologize to Silhouette for flashing back too quickly with an incorrect assumption, I see it now.

Again, multiple posters are encouring me to see that I am and always will be a crossdresser, and I'm setting myself up for unhappiness if I deny that. Folks, I'm already in a place where I'm going to be unhappy about something. Losing my wife of 31 years will kill me. I've sat in the dark just trying to imagine living the rest of my life (I'm only 57) without her and THAT is what depresses the hell out of me. I love this woman and am going to do what it takes to keep her. If that means I am occasionally unhappy about a part of my life that I'm suppressing then so be it. That's probably the best way to look at why I'm boing to cousneling, to learn how to deal with the loss of crossdressing, not so much with trying to 'cure myself.'

A point I will make again to several who have said 'let her go'. That is not going to happen. I've loved this woman for longer than I've even had a life without her, voluntarily letting her go is just not an option for me regardless of what sacrifice I have to make. If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

Thanks again for all the input. I love you all,
Georgi

There's nothing worse than the end of a long term relationship. No one needs that pain.

But...I'm always surprised to read something like this:

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Originally Posted by Georgi

having wrecked what used to be a wonderful marriage.

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Surprised that anyone could consider a relationship wonderful or solid or perfect when one of the people in it is horrified, repulsed or otherwise turned off by who the other person really is. Trying to save a relationship like that seems more than a little masochistic to me. I'm on the side of those who feel the people in the relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

Yes, I have been in long term relationships, and yes I know how painful it can be when they end. But life is short, and it seems a little tragic to spend it with someone who doesn't like who you really are.

>>> On the letter thing - Let it go. I did mis-quote the How to Tell You Partner thread. It said to take notes and use them to help you talk to her. I should have done the same, using my letter as a guide to help me talk to my wife.


G,

Good summary.

Thanks for pointing out what the "How to tell" actually section says. Glad to hear it.

I have heard, "Write her a letter" so many times around here I thought that was still method number one.

Thirty one years? Ach, you'll work it out. You've made some mistakes, but you're on the way to mending them and you'll both get past this.

Good job on your current priorities.

This is going to wind up being a positive thing - as long as you keep admitting you're human, have been for a long time, and, probably always will be.

Only 57?

So much time to do so much more...

I take it, by the way, that you started young, found CDing useful, and just kept it on a back burner all this time?

No harm done then. And, good news! You're NOT suddenly someone else!

So, anyway.... Why speak up now?

Anything particular that prompted that?

Did you just want a couple of weekends on the town, or, what?

Sometimes, if you can be specific about what you want, it's a lot easier to work out what you (both) get.

And, there's nothing wrong with that, as long as everyone knows what's going on...

The first step can be the hardest.

After that, you learn not to take such big steps.

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Originally Posted by pj

I'm on the side of those who feel the people in the relationship are more important than the relationship itself.

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I take a different view on GOOD relationships. A GOOD relationship is more important than the people in it, and, the people in it, know it. You can get another person, but a good deal is a good deal. Do you see what I mean? Widows and widowers know how to get along, most times, better than newbies...

Two individuals, are just that, individual. When you enter into an agreement with another person, you create something greater than both of you. The point of creating a relationship is that it creates a boat, a bubble, a bridge with you two together and the rest of the world, "over there," "out there," or, "down there." We, at the same time, agree to leave you alone to pursue your happiness as you see fit together. And, it's in our self-interest to leave you two to your own plans if we want to be left to do the same.

The relationship creates an "us" bond based on the mutual pledge to look out for one another. In simple terms, it's going through life using "the buddy system" to minimize risk and energy loss, maximize security and purposeful activity, etc. There's all sorts of relationships and the challenge comes when someone says, "I didn't sign up for this!" Well, maybe they did and maybe they didn't - but you better listen. It's the same with, "I think now I want to..." They better listen then too.

If you want to have a bad relationship, think either one of you can do whatever the hell you want and the other one is stuck with whatever you do. Not!

If you want a good relationship, think about how "we" are going to do things, where "we'd" like to be later, and so forth.

If "I" gets worked into discussions too often, someone eventually winds up saying,

"I wish THAT hadn't happened!"

One other component...

WE have this forum. We can come here, commiserate, and get support (and we many not always like it, advice).

She's probably feeling lost. Whom can she talk to? Notice how we tend to keep this hidden, desperately afraid to share with anyone, lest we be thought of horribly or lose friendships?

She's probably wanting to talk with someone, but is afraid. "What will they think?" "What does it make me look like?" "Will they still like me?"

Could she tell her parents? Seek advice from a girlfriend? Coworker? She's outing herself... And given her negative reaction, she's probably imposed that same reaction upon any conceptional dialogue.

Her whole world is upside down, and she feels trapped and unable to tell anyone. Can't imagine she's feeling too good, and every time she sees you, she sees the One Who Ruined It All.

ohhh... that blows Georgi... so sorry to hear this.

Hopfully she can eventually understand that CDing has chosen you not the other way around. We are simply a group of men that most often must choose acceptance of ones self and view it as a positive. CDing is such an easy thing to love, fortunately/unfortunately

I wish you the very best on overcoming this chapter.

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Originally Posted by mklinden2010

>>>
So, anyway.... Why speak up now?

Anything particular that prompted that?

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Actually there is, and that's one of the reasons I started this thread. I spent a year on this forum, first lurking and then registered under another name (long story I shouldn't share publicly). Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song.

I wanted to post this thread to bring a little reality check to this 'tell her' concept, expose the risks, and discuss the dark side of it. We've done that to some degree although most of what we've talked about, and I'm not complaining, is advice on how I can fix my problem. Maybe later the philosophical discussion of tell/don't tell can proceed. I'm sure it's too early in my story to even know the full story as mine has a long ways to go to finish playing out.

Anyway, just wanted to give you a little more background on why I had told her in the first place. Up until 6 or 8 months ago, I'd have sworn to you there was no way I'd have ever told my wife about it, and I would have told you it was because there was no way she could ever accept the alternative lifestyle. Seems that I knew her better than I thought...

Thx,
Georgi

I am sorry that you are going through such a tough time. Your experience is not all that unusual. Despite the fact that many people feel it is better to tell your spouse that you are CD, things often do not go well. Many SO's are unable or unwilling to be at all understanding. Sometimes one can get a "feel" for how a SO might react to the "news" from earlier conversations or comments. Then there are others that are "OK" with CDing as long as it is not "her man" who is the CD.
IMHO it is a crap shoot (no pun intended) and the CD really needs to determine the "pros" and "cons" before telling.
I wish you good luck.

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Originally Posted by Georgi

...I spent a year on this forum, first lurking and then registered under another name (long story I shouldn't share publicly). Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song...

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Well that explains much and takes the steam out of my criticism so thank you for clarifying. That said, I still sense a contradiction. You mention a desire to "free the inner woman" yet you self-identify the whole thing as being a fetish situation. Those are two entirely different concepts. You chose to share a fetish which happens to repulse the one you love. The fetish could have been a completely different type and met with the same result. That said, assuming there was no inner woman to release, I'd have thought longer and harder about what good could possibly come from bringing said fetish into a 31 year marriage. I do wish you the best of luck in all this because as you are well aware, you cannot put the genie back in the bottle.

This is so sad, on so many levels...primary I feel sad for you Georgi, who tried your best and are hurting now, my heart goes out to you and I hope you are able to get through this, you obviously love her very much and maybe that will get you two through this. Almost as sad, though, is the gratuitious sniping and holier-than-thou preaching by some of us here who can't resist the urge to pile on, just when you need our unconditional support the most.

I also have to agree with Pythos.

You have forgotten the fact that cross dressing is part of your personality and you will not be able to stop doing it or thinking about it without doing harm to yourself in some way.

There is no reason that your wife has to accept you and maybe never will. That is something you are going to have to accept.

BUT, you are not doing anything wrong as Pythos commented.

There seem to be more issues under the covers than just your cross dressing and that was just the kicker for everything else.

And for her to "throw up" over this is just a bit too dramatic in my view.

I wish your wife and yourself the the very best of luck in this matter.

Life does go on and if it souls come to pass that the two of you move on separately, next time you know you will need to be up front with anyone you are planning to have a long relationship with.

Ok I stayed out of this long enough.

Empathy is high but sympathy is low here. So now the OP has said that it was a pressure from everyone here which led to the letter and the coming out. As noted in an earlier post letter=bad idea. I reeks of "I am ashamed and afraid." and it is set in stone so to speak. Like the old story about the brother who call another brother and asks how the cat is. The cat died. OMG why didn't you temper that with a story??...same here. Hand spouse a letter, I like wearing women's clothes...everything from then on is moot, world crashes. Given that most people here no longer have the option to come out at the beginning of a relationship. Also a given that waiting for 30 years into a marriage when you KNOW the spouse would disapprove to come out....not a good idea. Seems you could sort of know how they would react by then. This gets back to the "I feel for you but what the heck were you thinking" part. Sometimes slow and steady is better.

So the gist of the "tell her" posts you were reading didn't say slap her in the face (at least as far as I remember...but maybe there was one or two that said that) with the information. Most said talk to her (talk...communicate face to face...not email, not letter, not phone call from a hotel in Baltimore). I know that there were posts that said write a letter...but they meant write stuff down so you could talk.

You know this won't go away. It won't go away from her stand point because every time you go to buy milk she will think you are sneaking out to dress up (and whatever misconceptions she has about what you do then). You can tell her you won't do it. She will KNOW you will. If you can drop this then the whole thing was at least in your mind a game that you were playing. You wore the clothes for fun. Thus why did you have to tell to start with? Wasn't any fun anymore? But if this is truly who you are, you can say you'll quit, you might even succeed at least awhile and then you will do it again. Now it is a sneak thing again, a lie. You will sneak around fearful and afraid and your demeanor will change and you will become unbearable. Then she will start to suspect. Hopefully she will only suspect you are dressing again but in her mind you are cheating, even if you aren't and she will start being unpleasant and now the whole divorce thing comes back up. One or both of you will be unhappy in this relationship.

My soapbox about all this is you had a marriage based on fallacies. You assumed a lot she assumed a lot and evidently you didn't assume the same thing. Dating has a lot of good reasons and it isn't just to get "some" you know. It is when you find out how the other person thinks and feels. Someone wasn't paying attention. Ok so you get married and you both assume that the castle and princesses and princes and no dragons...but you still know how the person feels on certain subjects. They don't like short people or they hate the color yellow. You don't have short friends and you don't buy the color yellow. But when she says something like "Did you see how that guy dressed in that movie? What a weirdo." Pretty god indication you should either come clean then (early) so you both can move on or you live with your secret...until you can maybe slowly change her thoughts on it. Not in one fell swoop.

Now the other point I want to make here is the word Fetish. There is the implied sexual part of this. Or something one does for sexual gratification. That is how we have come to associate the word now (actually a fetish is an object that has mystical powers and often is held to invoke those powers). But to be blunt here, even if some people on this board have a sexual "fetish" for clothes (in other words they have to dress to have sex), dressing in and of itself is NOT a fetish for the majority. We cannot overcome prejudice when we propagate it ourselves.

Sorry for the long post but all the "poor me" posts are really just "feel sorry for me" posts recently and the spouse is cast in the bad person role. Two way street here. Responsibility rests on telling early so the relationship can either grow or fail before your investment is too high

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Originally Posted by Georgi

Oh I don't disagree a bit with you about her acceptance. She will likely never accept my being a crossdresser and that's fine. What I'm hoping for is that someday (soon, hoepfully) she will be able to accept that I once was a crossdresser. If not, then this whole act of truthfulness was one total royal f*%kup on my part.

Thx,
Georgi

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WERE you once a crossdresser?

I thought so, of myself, several times, and purges many times - on my own. But the urges keep coming back. I came out to my wife last year, and it did not go very well - not nearly as bad as your situation, though (I am very sorry for what you're going through - I truly feel for you). Mine asked me to stop shaving etc... and let her know if feelings come back. If you're interested about my situation, I'll be glad to share (don't want to hijack the thread).

If you're communicating at all, and you currently feel you don't want to CD, tell her so, but then you would need her help and support. If she's not willing, then you may have other issues besides your CD'ing. Tell her you realize it's a problem, a disease, whatever label you choose...

On the other hand, this may turn out to be the best thing to happen to you - you may not realize it for another 10 years.

When I told my wife, one of the first things she said to me "I always thought you had 'feminine' tendencies in you; they way you act" etc... My point is, our wives are usually attracted to who and what we are, and a lot of times, they reject the idea of acceptance, in the hope of molding us into what they want us to be.

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Originally Posted by Georgi

Toward the middle of the spring of this year a lot of threads kept popping up with the 'tell her, tell her' mantra as a common theme. Many closeted cd'ers were berated, I believe unfairly, for not telling their SOs and were pushed into believing that the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth.

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I appreciate your wish to warn other CDs that telling the truth is not always the best policy. I'm in no position to judge whether this is true for you or not, since you first describe the CDing as a sexual fetish that can be shelved for the sake of your marriage, and then you speak of it as a deeper identity issue:

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Originally Posted by Georgi

(and it is a fetish, not a lifestyle)

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Originally Posted by Georgi

the only road to happines was to free the inner woman and tell the truth. For better or for worse I followed the siren song.

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The surface goal in telling wives is to have honesty within the relationship, and not deceive the wife. But the reason honesty is preferable over deceipt is that in enables the person to be true to who he is, thus making it possible to achieve optimal self-actualization. This is true for everyone. I can't imagine living a life, feeling I could not disclose who I am to the people I love.

If the CDing is only a fetish to you, then I don't see why it shouldn't be possible to realign your sexual desires in order to be more in tune with your wife's. There are sex therapists who can help with this sort of thing. Honestly, I don't see a difference between CDing purely as a sexual fetish, and other fetishes such as the need for bondage or sado-masochism. If your wife finds any type of sex play distasteful, if the totality of her sexual experience is sourced from her emotional bond with you and her desire to maintain traditional roles within your sexual relationship, and if she wants to be the sole source of your sexual desire, then it would behoove you to do what you can in order to meet her there. Sexual compatibility is important in a marriage. In other words, it is best for your relationship if you become aroused by your wife rather than the CDing.

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Originally Posted by Satrana

In any event instead of telling her that you are an ex-CD, tell her the truth that you will sacrifice your own needs for the sake of the relationship but that these CD thoughts will always be with you and she needs to deal with that knowledge and accept it.

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But I suspect you told your wife because the CDing is more than a fetish. Or maybe you felt the inner conflict between your sexual desires as Georgi and as your wife's husband. Either way, you felt stuck somehow and this made you unhappy, else I don't think you would have told her. But if you suspect that you might engage in the CDing for deeper reasons than the purely sexual, I wholeheartedly agree with Satrana's approach. If you don't do this, you risk eventually losing your marriage, your sanity, or both, since you cannot deny your gender identity, even if you only partially have a femme identification together with your male ID.

I wish you and your wife all the best in this, and I'm glad you posted your experience.
:hugs:

Georgi,

I may add more in a later post, but given that it has been less than a month since you told your wife, don't get anxious because things are not smoothed over in the relationship. You were in a difficult position in either case regarding whether to keep a big secret in the relationship or open things up and in either case the potential for emotional distance, at least for you, and maybe your wife in either case as well. You chose what you thought was best and hopefully it will turn out the way you wish. But it will take time and try not to get to attached to any outcome so soon. I'm sure many people here can testify to similar reactions from spouses when they were told and a month is simply not enough time for the emotional processing to take place. I hope your therapist is supportive and not judgmental so you can explore what is best for you (and your marriage) in the current time period. My best wishes and prayers for you both.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

As noted in an earlier post letter=bad idea. I reeks of "I am ashamed and afraid."

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Can we get off this letter thing? I didn't mail it to her. I didn't send it to her from another state. Yes, I should have taken her hands in mine, looked into her eyes and said the words from memory. But numerous posts had mentioned the technique of writing things out in a letter to give her while she sips hot chocolate with you by her side, so you wouldn't get tangled up and forget crucial things, and you're there to answer any questions she has. But 'reeks of ashamed and afraid'? I really tried to do the best job I could of breaking it to her gently and with love and respect. So pardon me if I f**cked up.

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Also a given that waiting for 30 years into a marriage when you KNOW the spouse would disapprove to come out....not a good idea. Seems you could sort of know how they would react by then. This gets back to the "I feel for you but what the heck were you thinking" part. Sometimes slow and steady is better.

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Yeah, after 30 years I did change my mind. Why? I found you guys.

Lorileah, bless your heart, yours was one of the loudest of the loud of the tell-her crowd. Your constant chant of 'tell her', 'if she doesn't like it leave', 'you must be true to your own self', etc. was all over the place. I don't want to start a flamefest, your opinion is yours and may well be a valid point of view and good advice for some people. Didn't work out so well for me. I should have stayed my own course. I do take full responsibility for my own actions, nobody held a gun to my head, but if I had never heard of crossdressers.com, I can guarantee that I'd have never come out to my wife and I'd still be guiltily hiding my stuff in the attic.

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My soapbox about all this is you had a marriage based on fallacies. You assumed a lot she assumed a lot and evidently you didn't assume the same thing.

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Thank you for the psychoanalysis. I guess I don't need to bother with going to the therapist after all.

I'm sorry to make this so hostile, but I really do remember your advice being so pro-'tell-her'. Go back and search for posts under your name and see if the 'tell her' theme doesn't show up in a great number of them.

Thx,
Georgi

I'm going to cool off and not post mean and hateful stuff so this doesn't turn into a flamefest.

Lorileah, I'm sorry for flaming you, but I do stand by what I said about your being a very pro 'tell-her' advocate. In fact, this entire forum is very strongly biased toward the tell-her side of the argument.

As I said before, I don't blame anyone even though it sounds that way in my posts. I am a big boy and I take responsibility for my actions. I am somewhat bitter over the fact that if I had never discovered this forum I would never have been exposed to the transgendered way of thinking and I would have almost certainly never come out to my wife (never say never).

But I got caught up in a lot of conversations this spring, and although I felt strongly that I was not transgendered but more of a fetish crossdresser, I got caught up in the argument that honesty was the only way to live life with my wife. Didn't matter that it had been 31 years, yes there would be flak over the long time, and there would be some pain over that, but coming out to her later would be better than having her accidentally finding it or coming out voluntarily still later on.

I had been convinced my entire married life she would not handle it well, that she did not view alternative lifestyles well. Somewhere in the last couple of months I deluded myself into believing that either that was changing or that somehow I could make that change with honesty and love.

So, I'm sorry for stirring the flames. Lorileah, again I apologize for being nasty in the way I spoke to you.

Thx to all,
Georgi

If it helps I remember asking on another Forum many years ago for those who had told their wives partners etc after some time together if the result was positive or negative. I am pretty sure they vote came out in favour of telling by about 90% for and about 10% that said things went from bad to worse. I reckon your wife's reaction must surely be at the extreme end of that 10%.

As for me I told my wife before we got married 30 odd years ago, still been a rough old ride at times because as stated before women think that they can change little things like that! The answer to that is no. The urge to dress simply gets more intense as we get older. I say about mid 30's to mid 40's I cranked it up quite a bit by wanting a wig and my own clothes makeup etc.

Anyway, good luck from me.

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Your wife has a right to her feelings. Go apologize for being such a dope. If you have to smoke, drink, crossdress, dance, hunt, gamble, or, whatever to be your best self, just own up to it. People want to love and be loved. But, they want to know who, what, when, where, how and why to feel safe doing so.

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Hes right Georgi....You are the point of forsaking who you are to please her, if you compromise your best you, then you have nothing really to offer. If you love yourself as much as you do her, then come to common ground....if it pains her for you to be you, then you must let her go......because you love her.

Painful as that may be....but we have all made sacrifice for those we love...

Walk Your Path, we will be here if you need us.

Best Wishes,

-Donni-

I understand misgivings about crossdressing, or any other unusual lifestyle for that matter. But throwing up is really over the top.

I have been wary of committed relationships, CD notwithstanding, simply because I don't want to wake up one day and find that the woman I love to the point of complete support and devotion might not return the favour.

Sure you can stop wearing women's clothes, just as you can stop any other behaviour. You can do that fine without the help of a therapist. But it's not in a therapists power, or even your power to change your personality, and your wife should realise this. Does she want to change your personailty?

Georgi I appreciate your post it’s a cautionary tale to those just starting down our path. There are many lessons to be learned from this thread.

I haven't posted much lately but this one is just too meaningful on a personal level to pass up. To expand on Sara Jessica's analogy this thread isn't just a car wreck that you can't help but look at. Its one of those car wrecks that you drive by and see yourself sitting in the driver’s seat.

I am truly sorry for both you and your wife. I will pray for both of you and I am sure things with “work out” for the best. Unfortunately, at this point we can’t define what “work out” looks like. I wish I could give you a road map to get to the resolution you want but the one truth in all of these posts is that none of us know how to get there.

Less than 6 months ago I was in your shoes. I came out to my bride and love of my life after 15 years and yes I used a letter that I read to her with tears in my eyes, because a teleprompter was not available. I didn’t want to miss any key points at that emotional moment. Her initial reaction was shock and then anger. Wow, what anger, but that subsided as I shared with her how much she meant to me and as we spent numerous nights working through issues that neither of us understood. We are not out of the woods and everyday is filled with challenges and issues, but I know things will “work out” and I don’t regret coming out no matter how God eventually defines “work out”.

Coming out isn’t all roses, rainbows, and singing birds especially for us that fought this issue for so long hoping that it one day would go away. It has been said in this thread once the Genie is out of the bottle you are stuck with Barbra Eden living in your life forever. I have discovered that the person you just came out to will never look at you the same way again. They may or may not accept who you are and they are sure to feel betrayed. Acceptance and trust will need to be developed and rebuilt and this could take a lifetime.

Lessons learned from us Ghosts of Coming Out Past:

- Come out to the one you love before you get married.

- Coming out after marriage will have consequences sometimes significant.

- Once you come out the closet door the locks and there is no going back in.

- Teleprompters are not suitable for use during your coming out discussion with your spouse.

I wish you and any of the other folks on this board that are wrestling with this the best of luck. :hugs:

Georgi - I also got my courage to tell my wife by listening to others on this Forum, and the initial result was a disaster. The one thing I did do though, was taking my specific situation and planned my coming out accordingly. I waited for her to bring up the subject on her own, as she often does when she walks in on me as I am shaving my legs, plucking eyebrows, etc... and took it from there. Yet, her reaction was negative, and she threatened to leave me. A couple of weeks later she felt easier about it and asked to make her few commitments.

If your marriage is as solid as you initially stated (we all hope), just give her a little longer to cool off. Tell her you were thinking of it to spice up your and her sex life, together, which I am sure it's true.

Am sure most members of this Forum want nothing but the best for you.

Follow your heart, and good luck. I'll be praying for you.

:hugs::love:

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Originally Posted by Georgi

I'm sorry to make this so hostile, but I really do remember your advice being so pro-'tell-her'. Go back and search for posts under your name and see if the 'tell her' theme doesn't show up in a great number of them.

Thx,
Georgi

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Yes tell her...talk to her... You didn't you wrote a letter (back on that again I know). Then you threw it at her and stepped back. There was absolutely no indication you had ever discussed anything like this. And my advice to tell was early...not later. Be that as it may, the original post was asking US for sympathy. You even pointed out the part where I suggested getting out...but you aren't. You have decided to quit dressing. That is your decision and I wish you luck but odds are this is going right where you think it is going anyway. Maybe the advice from earlier read that surprise was the best option...I don't remember that at all. If that is how I made it sound, I will have to amend that.

It was a different world 30 years ago and I realize that at that time we were considered freaks. But still, having been in that situation, I also know that when I started dating I knew my future wife's slant on politics, religion, taste in food, clothing, how a "man" should act and be. Yes I spent years NOT being who I was on the outside, but is the person on the inside that we cared about. So when it came to I want to wear _____, she wasn't shocked. She thought it was strange because she personally felt it uncomfortable (shoes, underwear, skirts etc). It wasn't an overnight "Hey look what I have on!" thing. But is was early (actually even before we were married). So I don't understand your surprise at her reaction. Did you mention it even in passing? Subtle hints?

I was not saying don't tell, I was saying tell before you get deeply invested. I was also saying why the surprise? and why are you clinging to this when it is evident that you two have different opinions (see you post above about getting out.) this is a no win situation for you and her. And (yes I am psychoanalyzing) this will be a thorn in your relationship from now on. She became physically ill...I don't think you are going to change her concepts over night. If you go back and read those posts you reference I speak of loving the person not the clothing they wear. It is the person you love and she has an ideal of you that isn't true. Can you get her to see the person inside. Probably not at this point. If you ar4e willing to work that out and try...I say go for it. But if you think you (or her) will be happy with you pretending that this side of does not exist...you will be in for another surprise.

I stick with the "tell her" part...I also stick with the "get on with your lives" part. I hate divorce, I hate splitting up but in the long run, that is often the best. You want sympathy...sorry she acted the way she did and I am sorry you are hurt. But that is the sympathy. Do I feel for you? yes, that is empathy. You did the tell her part. Now you have to decide if the getting on with your life is the next move. You felt strong enough to open up, now you may need to be strong enough to move on. Love is a two way street as they say. It is compromise. I see no compromise here. This is a dominance thing. Not an equal thing.

And it is OK to flame me. I can take that. It isn't the first or last time. But my empathy for you says you need to reconsider your next move (quitting dressing will most likely fail but if it works out for you...then I am happy for you). Right now I don't see you two communicating and you can't tell her how you feel and she has closed up how she feels.

Man, let's give Georgi some kind of credit here. He tried to do the right thing. Some complain of how he did it. Others that it wasn't sooner ....

Get over yourselves people - everyone of us (GG's not withstanding) could be or have been Georgi. It wasn't the way you did this or that or how soon you told your SO (if you did) that landed you in "acceptanceland". It was who your SO was/is.

For example - he could have told her before they got married and she could have told him "We're done. Marriage is off." But wait, telling early was a solution to her feeling deceived. Yep, not deeived and not married. Probably better in the long run BUT certainly NOT the outcome desired by the CD.

OR - get your thoughts together, take notes, do a practice video AND then talk to her about it. WAIT - she'd running into the bathroom puking. But I did everything right. Yes, you did BUT it's not all under our control where, if we say it/do it just right, she'll be okay with it. The okay with it part is in her. Who she is. How she feels about you. And plenty of other things out of our control.

So - we, as CD/TS individuals need to recognize that's who we are and that by putting it out there, no matter how nicely or logically done, we run the risk of not being accepted. That risk of not being accepted is what keeps most of us in the closet.

For those that aren't out and are in a relationship, I'd venture that much of your time is spent not CDing. So, after 20 or 31 years, you have a lot of time spent with your partner, unrelated to CDing. The risk of losing that relationship is huge - particularly for something that may consume 1% of your time. For GG's - that's another reason, fair or not, as to why some don't come out - it's a no win situation for them. Can't stop something that really only takes up a bit of overall time and can't handle potentially destroying relationship.

For the GG's - and Giorgi's especially - Was his mariage/relationship good for the 31 yrs before he told his wife? But he was a CD all that time. She just didn't know. So knowing is what ruined their relationship? That sure seems like an SO/GG problem - as I said in the beginning, that's the variable that dictates acceptence or not

Hang in there Giorgi. Do what you need to do but remember that you're a worthwhile person and deserve to be happy. We only get one time around in this life.

Pythos - some people feel an absolute need to completely control their SO---I think that was the situation with your pilot friend---not so sure its the situation with Georgi's wife---key difference is that your pilot friends wife knew he was a pilot before she married him--knew it was part of him and she had no business trying to change that---Georgi's wife didnt know about her cding when she married him---big difference--that said, you are correct--Georgi can no more stop her desire to cd than your friend could stop his desire to fly---and ultimately its the wife who will have to make a choice.

Georgi,

I understand both sides of your situation. I'm sure we've all been there at one time or the other. I will pray for you both.

Hugs,
Roni

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Originally Posted by Aleria

I Feel for the SO .... She's probably feeling lost.

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

If a person really and truly loves another person deep down inside, wouldn't they want to at least try to understand what makes them tick?

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Yes Aleria, good point. In my above quote of myself, that "at least try to understand" idea goes both ways. Georgi has to try to understand just exactly why his wife hates the idea of crossdressing so much that she was physically ill when he told her. :2c:

I got to say as someone who has anxiety issues I would have done it this exact same way.... the stress that you must have been feeling must have been intense, so there would have been a good chance you would have missed saying things you intended....better have what you want to and need say written down.

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Originally Posted by Georgi

I think you misunderstand how I presented the letter to her. I took several weeks to compose this letter, then on the morning of July 5th sat next to her as I handed it to her to read so I was there for her to ask questions. I didn't mail her the letter or leave the letter for her to read in my absence. And by the way, the famed how to tell your SO thread proposes just this method of writing it out rather than trying to memorize your spiel and blurt it out from memory.

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Give her the time she needs, and take it one step at a time....don't think too far ahead but cover your ass as one person suggested. She needs to figure out how she feels and what she wants for her life. She has this right! Just like you have the right to live your truth. Hope that some how you can both come together and find a way to make it work because there is obviously love there. Seek some counseling as many have already suggested...they can really help with the navigation of this difficult time for both of you.

No matter what....remember this time, as difficult as it is, will pass!

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Originally Posted by Rachel Morley

Georgi has to try to understand just exactly why his wife hates the idea of crossdressing so much that she was physically ill when he told her.

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Amen. I tried gently to get her to talk about it when we're in a quiet controlled environment like taking a drive. She has a saying "it's like taking a very fragile christmas ornament out of a box, but it's so fragile I'm afraid to even hold it so I have to put it back away immediately. I can't look at it or even think about it or it might break." So I can get her to talk about what it is about the crossdressing that is so repulsive to her.

So now my last line of defense is the counseling, joint and solo. In joint counseling we should be able to talk to the counselor about goals and what we both think the goals of our counseling ought to be. Then in her private sessions perhaps the counselor can work a little more deeply on whatever her revulsions are. No guarantees, I know, but a plan of action that at least has a chance of some level of success.

Even partial success in counseling could return portions of the marriage to nearly what they were before. I'd like to be able to kiss her on the lips but the best I can do right now is a peck on the cheek.

But I digress. Yes, understanding is key. And vice versa, the more she can learn and come to understand what crossdressing truly is and is not may help as well. Right now I'm now sure how much of the big picture she's managed to absorb. She's ignore my efforts to come to forums like this one, or to read books like "My hunband's a crossdresser". I think she believes I'm trying to put one over on her and subvert her beliefs into making it ok for me to continue life as a crossdressers, and even bring her into it with me.

It's late, I'm going to be typing with my forehead in a minute. Goodnight gentle souls.
Georgi

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Originally Posted by Georgi

If we split up it's going to be because she puls herself out of my grasp.

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I am sure everyone wants and expects you to put utmost effort into saving your relationship. There is no need to explain the horrible pain from separating from a long term partner who has been everything for your entire adult life.

Maybe now is not the time for you to consider this but there is something worse than ending the relationship, and that is staying in a relationship where your partner is repulsed by you. If your wife refuses to budge from her current position then what are you hanging onto?

In all likelihood it will take you years to reach a stage where you can examine your relationship realistically. I hope in time your wife will take steps towards some level of acceptance and accommodation so a fair compromise is obtainable. In that case the relationship is worth keeping.

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Originally Posted by Georgi

She's ignore my efforts to come to forums like this one, or to read books like "My hunband's a crossdresser". I think she believes I'm trying to put one over on her and subvert her beliefs into making it ok for me to continue life as a crossdressers, and even bring her into it with me.

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I would say that is a common reaction and that is going to be your main problem. If she refuses to educate herself because she sees this as a ruse to get her to change her beliefs then you are beating a dead donkey. Even councilors cannot get through to a closed mind who sees conspiracies.

Giorgi,


I'm sorry but this response by your wife is TOO MUCH. I know you say you still love her but her behavior towards you sends a very different message of how she feels about you. IMHO, if your CDing could take her from loving you to whatever it is she feels now (doesn't look nor sound like love to me), she's the one with a problem AND she needs to figure out why she has to get ill at the thought of her husband CDing - OH the drama!

I know you are hurting Giorgi BUT you don't desrve this kind of treatment FROM ANYONE let alone someone who supposedly loved you. Her behavior makes me question where she was really at in the relationship BEFORE you told her. If push comes to shove, I can tell you who won't have trouble finding a new partner and who will likely be alone - You tried to be honest Giorgi. Good luck.

Amen Satrana!! Amen!

However, if and when u DON'T, and if u live in SoCal, I've got a terrific divorce attorney for u!:brolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Georgi

In fact, this entire forum is very strongly biased toward the tell-her side of the argument.

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Agreed. And many people advocated here that "honesty is always the best policy". I must confess I somewhat doubt so many people saying it so loudly can be 100% honest in their own lives though.:devil:

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Originally Posted by Georgi

As I said before, I don't blame anyone even though it sounds that way in my posts. I am a big boy and I take responsibility for my actions. I am somewhat bitter over the fact that if I had never discovered this forum I would never have been exposed to the transgendered way of thinking and I would have almost certainly never come out to my wife (never say never).

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I empathize with your feeling.
Maybe you lacked a bit confidence about your own intuition and had thought other people knew better.

Now you can be aware you know better than most do.

I am confident you will find the best way to handle your present situation.
But it might take several months to reach a satisfactory state.

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Originally Posted by Miss Misery

Giorgi,


I'm sorry but this response by your wife is TOO MUCH. I know you say you still love her but her behavior towards you sends a very different message of how she feels about you. IMHO, if your CDing could take her from loving you to whatever it is she feels now (doesn't look nor sound like love to me), she's the one with a problem AND she needs to figure out why she has to get ill at the thought of her husband CDing - OH the drama!

I know you are hurting Giorgi BUT you don't desrve this kind of treatment FROM ANYONE let alone someone who supposedly loved you. Her behavior makes me question where she was really at in the relationship BEFORE you told her.

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I really think that the emotional shock Georgi's wife is feeling after 31 years is just too strong at this point to warrant any questioning of whether she loves him. I had a huge argument with a girlfriend of less than 2 years who felt our relationship had been a "lie" because I had held back some things I had been angry about. She got over it. Maybe Georgi's wife will or won't be at least give it some time. 26 days is a drop in the bucket in the course of a 31 year relationship.

We see our CD'ing as normal and everyday behavior. We don't have to look very hard on the rest of the world to realize how little they still now about it. I'm in a graduate level counseling program and you'd be surprised (or maybe not) how little potential counselors know about transgender issues. So I'm simply saying we have to put ourselves in her shoes to realize how unexpected this was and give her (and both of them) some time to work through this. There is no hurry to suggest an end to this marriage.

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

However, if and when u DON'T, and if u live in SoCal, I've got a terrific divorce attorney for u!:brolleyes:

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Can we have a little sensitivity here?

Well , theres one undeniable fact here . Once the dust has settled , things will be so delicate BUT they cannot be swept under the carpet . Pandoras box is well and truely open , and if everything is NOT discussed then it'll remain a silent ugly elephant in the room . If we all can only realise one thing .... disagreements must be approached , even if only to agree to disagree . It's going to be a very difficult time , open conversation will become so intense , so embaressingly painful at times . However , if it's done from the heart with reflection all anguish should dissapear and the last 31 yrs should stand as a foundation of a good marriage .
Its so evident that you must give it time , then approach your wife with what you as a person want . You hid the femanine part of you for so long - surely you realise thats an indication of how it special it is and how natural it is to you . It's as clear as day in other areas too . Just think , if this is not subjected to full and frank discussion it'll return in many ways , perhaps your wife will question your every move ?. Who knows - one things for sure niether of you need the stress thats occurring . It's certainly not an end to your marriage , but simply a time to work at it .
Time to discuss it like an adult .
Its a blunt statement , but the undeniable truth .
So , only you know how your wifes emotional position is right now . only you know when the time is right , but you have to deal with it - you , the clothes the personality - the reasons for hiding away - the lot .
Perhaps then if a joint agreement can be decided , then a way forward be established .
Good luck .

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Originally Posted by Miss Misery

Giorgi,


I'm sorry but this response by your wife is TOO MUCH. I know you say you still love her but her behavior towards you sends a very different message of how she feels about you. IMHO, if your CDing could take her from loving you to whatever it is she feels now (doesn't look nor sound like love to me), she's the one with a problem AND she needs to figure out why she has to get ill at the thought of her husband CDing - OH the drama!

I know you are hurting Giorgi BUT you don't desrve this kind of treatment FROM ANYONE let alone someone who supposedly loved you. Her behavior makes me question where she was really at in the relationship BEFORE you told her. If push comes to shove, I can tell you who won't have trouble finding a new partner and who will likely be alone - You tried to be honest Giorgi. Good luck.

Amen Satrana!! Amen!

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Experiencing an alternative lifestyle firsthand changes our perspective on such an issue, but for a lot of people it's such a passing thing that society calls deviance in a very negative light. You can't expect such a sudden change from someone who has held that viewpoint for such a long time. Ignorance is a difficult beast to tame, but as someone who has stood by her for 31 years it's perfectly reasonable to give her space to digest this information.

I think you're going the right way with this by seeking a mediator Georgi. Hopefully she will at least be willing to try to see past her revulsion so she can see the kind of sacrifice you are trying to make for her.

One very important thing though. Like others have said, honesty is the best policy. If the urge to dress comes back again and you don't feel like you can suppress it, be honest with yourself that it isn't something that you can just hide and proceed from there. Try to seek the best for yourself as well as the best for your relationship.

Thank you - Everyone! I've read every word of everybody's posts, some of them more than once and will take your advice and see how it can work for me.

My wife returned from a three-day road trip last night, crawled into bed at 1AM with the perfunctory good night and that was all. We'll see today if she's going to agree to the appointment I have set for her next Tuesday (was Monday but the Dr had to move me to Tuesday). If she will accept that, maybe the road to counseling begins and a two-way dialogue starts. Once we start talking, well, at least we'll be talking. That will be a dramatic improvement over the last month.

I'll more of less end this thread here unless someone comes up with radically new thoughts. I know this thread had been emotionally draining on me just reliving the last month in detail, and maybe on some of you. Maybe in a few weeks or a month or two if things change one way or the other between us I will have some new insights to share.

Cheers,
Georgi

I wish the best for you. I know how hard it is to tell and survive it after a long marriage.

I am a very loud member of the "TELL HER" group. As part of that group, I try to get people to see what happens when you don't tell and finally wait until years later to share the secret which you should have told her earlier. Now granted 26 years ago when I got married, I thought it would all go away. I mistakenly thought it had gone away because I was so madly in love. The reality is that it gets buried but it does come back. Hiding and denying it isn't the answer. I don't know exactly what the answer is since it depends upon the 2 people involved so much.

I am also a loud member of the group telling you to quit living a lie. That one is a lot tricker. Many of us have found a way to deal with things in our marriage and be happy. But there is this part of us which we find necessary to indulge. Eventually the SO will find the clothes or something else which gives her a hint as what you are doing. It is too late to come clean at that time. Your busted. I believe that the cd'er should control how the story is told. You decided on the best solution for you and it had a terrrible consequence. I have never heard of a wife throwing up after finding out you are TG. All I say is that must have been one hell of a letter.

I personally don't think that all is lost in your case. I do remember a saying that I had in my annual as a senior. "A man's mind stretched by a new idea will never go back to its original dimensions." I don't know who said it but it is as relevant in my life and it is in yours. Your marriage has changed forever. It will never be the same. Trying to take your marriage back to what it was is wrong. You should be trying to improve your marriage. Your marriage like a lot of others was built on lies and deception. Now you should find a way to get through to her and rebuild the marriage better than it ever was. You have a good foundation since you both love each other, hopeful both of you can find a way to rebuild it. This time maybe with greater understanding.

The last point that I want to make is that telling a SO doesn't work immediately all of the time. Sometimes even with the accepting SO's it takes a long time before acceptance is even possible. The question that you should ask yourself is "Would you feel differently about telling her if in 1 year from now she accepted you and your marriage was better than before?" I think the answer is "YES". Yes we screw up telling them because their are a lot of different methods and we can choose only one. There are no mulligans in telling a SO so it is what it is. I hope that you will find a way to rebuild the marriage better than it was before. You are doing what you can. Love is your best tool so use it and let her know how much you love her.

Good Luck to you. :hugs:

P.S. Yes after telling my wife things didn't work out, but I have no regrets. Our marriage was already done for. Cd'ing just finished it off. I tried to use the telling about my cd'ing as a way to rekindle the love by her understanding what I was going through. It didn't work. But if I had told her early in our relationship things would have been a lot different.

I know Giorgi has ended his participation in this thread but I want to point some things out using his situation.

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Originally Posted by Olivia2

Can we have a little sensitivity here?

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Not seeing much sensitivity from Giorgi's wife, are we? Oh, I know. She's so shocked, hurt or what have you BUT that doesn't excuse her treatment of Giorgi. She can be hurt etc without treating him like crap. THAT is what could destroy the relationship - I know, give her time .... but this kind of dailly shunning will impact their realtionship even if they do resolve things. I think her distancing from Giorgi is her trying out being without him (sorry to say).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Olivia2

we have to put ourselves in her shoes to realize how unexpected this was

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I make the case that if this is such a shock and unexpected, then she must have felt their marriage was fine until he told her he was a CD. But he was CDing all the time that she, up until now, felt their marriage was doing well - all that has changed is she knows something she didn't know before. And that's enough to wreck the marriage that was doing well? Very weak.

Also, the deviance argument is antiquated at best. 30 years ago, that might fly but there's CD/TS/TG stuff depicted in films/TV/ - everywhere. It's hard to not have been at least exposed. Sure, society at large doesn't know what to make of it but it is gaining more mainstream acceptance.

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Originally Posted by Terraforming

honesty is the best policy

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Don't start this stuff again. Isn't this whole thread about how this blew up in Giorgi's face? Others in the closet on here need to recognize that there is inherent risk in the "best policy".

Good luck Georgi - you're in our prayer. :hugs:

Feel your pain Hon...been there and got the freakin T-shirt as well...

went though all of the above even to moving out and to Florida last summer about a year ago....

In time it worked out to where the dressing is fully supported and we've even started a business geared to us girls so the wife is fine with it...now if I can just get her to put back my make up when she uses my things would be great!!! She's also always grabbing my accessories..earrings etc...

Give it time go at her pace not yours and fingers crossed and see where it all goes....so work it out and some don't...that's just the way it works out....

Stephanie

Michelle,

I'll give you credit for your stance on the "when to tell" policy since you tried it and it failed AND you still advocate it. But how can you possibly know this:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AKAMichelle

Yes after telling my wife things didn't work out......But if I had told her early in our relationship things would have been a lot different.

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Do you mean things "could have been different" or are you insinuating that she would have accepted you and your CDing thus saving your marriage, if only you'd told her sooner? That's unknowable and, I believe, highly unlikely.

Is this part of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy? (For those not in the states, that's the US version of allowing gays in the military - we've got some real geniuses at the helm, don't we.)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Miss Misery

Michelle,

I'll give you credit for your stance on the "when to tell" policy since you tried it and it failed AND you still advocate it. But how can you possibly know this:



Do you mean things "could have been different" or are you insinuating that she would have accepted you and your CDing thus saving your marriage, if only you'd told her sooner? That's unknowable and, I believe, highly unlikely.

Is this part of the "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy? (For those not in the states, that's the US version of allowing gays in the military - we've got some real geniuses at the helm, don't we.)

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I think the answer would be that if she still didn't accept then we probably wouldn't have married. I have no regrets for my shortcomings because now I have 3 wonderful boys by her. But I expect a woman to accept me at least to a certain degree before I remarry one day. I made a mistake by not telling her before marriage but I didn't know the truth about cd'ing. I thought everyone like that transitioned. Plus it was sexual early in my life, so I had ever reason to believe that I could beat it. Since I had no desire at that time to transition. Being in my early 20's, high sex drive and a gorgeous GF was too much. When I married I had no desire at all to crossdress but that changed about one year later.

I don't think it is a mistake to tell your wife regardless of how long you have hid it from her. She has a right to know the truth. Besides if you live a lie all of your life, what did you miss by not being truthful with her. What is she going to think when she finds your stash after you die? She is going to think that she never knew you at all destroying much of what you had together. Memories are all that is important in life regarding the love ones you leave behind. Why taint the memories by them finding out about you after your gone with no explanation. The explanation that they figure out will be whatever they can understand about it. That explanation could be far worse than the truth but she will never know the truth because you failed to tell her.

I think the best policy is to tell early in the relationship before everyone would feel trapped finding out about cd'ing. But I figured out all of this too late for my marriage. To put my marriage in perspective, even without cd'ing I would still be heading into a divorce. There were too many things wrong and we had grown apart and were growing in opposite directions. So cd'ing didn't destroy my marriage. I tried to use it to save a failing marriage which didn't work.