Question to CDs only, from Anonymous GG

I'll push aside what I perceive as thinly veiled hostility in your questions and try to offer a worthy response.

As others have posted, I was raised in a very female dominated household and family. I've been a party to wage and job disparity, the complications of reproduction - legitimate and otherwise - and I seen women accomplish physical tasks most might think they couldn't accomplish. I'll put my (Large) nose out there and say I think I have as good an idea what it's like to be a woman as any MAN really can.

I've also been immersed in the style and creativity of the woman's life while being excluded from being wholly involved. I have my perception of the good life a woman could make for herself if she'd only make the effort.

Speaking for myself, I ignore the "panty color", "magic potion", and "make a wish" threads. I find them pretty silly and demeaning. As others have said, those aren't conversations women share, as a rule.

I would suggest you read the threads in the beauty club and wardrobe forums.... I think you'll get a more level headed read of how more of us think. The main forum sees a lot of the same issues resurface. Three years ago, I was new here and put my posts in there: Why am I/We here, I told my SO, Thanks for the support. All these issues get aired out over and over as more citizens join our community. We are all individuals with unique stories but we also have common issues and struggles.


Would I change my sex and become a women? Nope... I have it better on planet Earth, being a male. Would I grow breasts that are strictly cosmetic but stay male... I would, yeah.
Personally, I have no kids and have desire to have any part of them. My nurturing goes into gardening, the way I feel about my friends and how I treat my SO.

We aren't peas from one big pod. We are all our own flavor and any generality is misleading.

Don't know that I"ve helped but I've tossed my two bits into the kitty.

ciao

Dear Anonymous GG, After 3+ years of gender therapy, I've finally figured out who and what I am. For me, it isn't about knowing what it takes to be a woman. I had to understand what it takes to be "me" in a healthy and comfortable manner. Yes, that involves dressing and presenting myself in a way that society considers to be feminine. It also involves going out in a straight, social setting so I can interact with others. Does that make me a woman? No. However, there are many things I do at home that some would consider "womanly"--cooking, cleaning, laundry, etc. Do those activities make me a woman? No. As the title says, it's about being yourself. Others may see things differently but I can only tell you how I feel.

I don't know whether I can speak for other CDers but for me, crossdressing is about feeling feminine. There is a certain joy in feeling feminine, and it goes beyond just the feel and fit of the fabrics or the look of the outfits, although it certainly includes that. I get all five senses involved too.

The look, smell, taste, feel, and even the sound of feminine things to include clothing, hair, forms, perfume, shoes, and accessories all combine to produce a general feeling of femininity. Like a glass of fine wine, femininity can be savored and enjoyed with all the senses. For instance, have you noticed how uniquely feminine the sound of high heels make when walking on tile? Or how sensual lipstick tastes when you put it on your lips? And I absolutely love the smell when I wear perfume. It makes me feel pretty! And feeling pretty is uniquely feminine.

Admittedly, for us CDers, crossdressing is by necessity primarily an external thing. For us to do more would make us TS. And it is very likely that most of us are quite happy with our man side. But because we enjoy feeling feminine, we do as much as we can practically do to feel that feminine joy without permanently altering ourselves. Yet many of us who start out as CDers do transition into full-time feminine mode and that is where CDing becomes TS.

Is it fair that only women get to experience the joy of feeling feminine? Women certainly do feel the joy of feeling masculine in our society!

One thing a woman can do that a man cannot ordinarily do is feel pretty. And often, for men, the cost of feeling feminine is quite high, resulting from judgmental attitudes of others to feelings of guilt and shame put on us by our families, friends and society. Yet for women, it is considered quite socially acceptable for them to enjoy feeling masculine, although that has not always been the case.

See my post: http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...t=#post2653761

You ask us who crossdress if we know what it "takes to be a woman". We certainly do! As CDers we all know about what women go through with their periods, their moods, their hormones and their difficulties being women. We do sympathize. Without exception we all have women in our lives. Are we trying to be a woman? Usually not. If that were the case then we would be TS.

And although we may not know what it is like to carry a baby or what it is to actually be a woman, we are quite able to use our imaginations to empathize with women. Indeed, it is our imaginations that allow us to more fully empathize with what women go through in their lives. And it doesn't take imagination for us to know what it is like when they work so hard to make themselves beautiful for men. Admittedly, we do enjoy imagining what it feels like to actually be a woman when we crossdress. That is part of the joy of femininity.

If we fully desired to be a woman, then theoretically when we crossdressed we would cease being men and we would be fully women, we would suddenly be attracted to men, our entire psyche would become female and we would require the hormones, etc. But that is usually not our goal. Our goal is the same as women's goals are when they become tomboys. Like these tomboy women who want to feel the fun part of feeling what the opposite sex feels when they revel in their masculinity, we too when we crossdress want to revel in the feeling of what the opposite sex feels when she revels in her femininity.

And here is where I think that many women are hypocritical about CDers. Very often our women complain about our crossdressing but think nothing about a woman who wears male clothing, who works in a male-dominated profession or who emulates masculine traits. It is much more accepted in our society for women to express masculinity than it is for males to exhibit femininity. But I don't think that's really fair to those of us born male who love to feel feminine just as much as women like to be tomboys or do guy things.

I'd like to turn the tables on this anonymous GG. Do you ever wear pants? It has not always been acceptable for women to do so commonly. See my post:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...e-dresses-gone.

To the GG that initiated this discussion: Do you like to dress like a tomboy from time to time? Do you like to kick back and hang out with the guys and feel like "one of the boys"?? That is the equivalent of crossdressing in my mind.

It strikes me that the attitude of the woman posing this anonymous question is a bit jaded. She seems like she has a chip on her shoulder, and that she is complaining because she thinks that we as crossdressers are shallow people who are concerned only with externalities and that somehow we are out of touch with reality. But that is not the case at all. We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows.

I could go on, but don't have the time right now. Suffice to say that there are many complex aspects about crossdressing that I have not touched on here but will in later posts.

And I love feeling feminine. :battingeyelashes:

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Originally Posted by Carol Elizabeth

"To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

Dear Unnamed GG:

OK, What are your issues? Have you been harmed or offended by a crossdresser? Have you discorvered that a close friend, family member, boy friend, or spouse is in fact a crossdresser and you don't understand why?

I do not think that you were completely honest in your request because you did not explain your personal issues. As such, any answer that we give will fall short of what you are looking for - that being - understanding. As I read the questions - multiple times, I do not think that acceptance of crossdressing is in your makeup.

Perhaps, a little more background as to why the questions were asked will allow us to give you the understanding you are seeking even if acceptance is not possible.

As for grass being greener on the other side - yes it is greener - and red - and pink - and purple - and every other color of the rainbow that isn't available for males simply because some silly rule says that men can't wear bright colors.


Carol Elizabeth

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I pretty much agree with Carol Elizabeth. It sounds like you are getting locked and loaded for a duel to end someone's crossdressing.

Many very bright and eloquent responses have been submitted on this topic. It is definitely true that crossdressing fills many different needs for different people. I do think I have a mixture of female and male in me, and that by indulging my female side and acknowledging and accepting that part of myself, I'm more likely to be able to acknowledge and accept a greater variety of people.

I'm a guy...in my life everyone knows me as a guy...I have a tendency to let my facial hair grow...I have a penis and balls. I live life as a guy, I have a desire to get married to a woman, have kids, and be the typical guy when it comes to that regard.

I know it takes more than a vagina and breasts to make one a woman. I also know it takes more than having sex with guys and putting on makeup and wearing heels [which I don't, by the way, I am too much of a klutz sometimes to even think of trying to support my body on two little nubs].

That being said, I like the way women's clothing feels. I have spent the day in women's jeans, tights and panties...I know that tights can be slightly uncomfortable, same with bras. I have no desire to actually spend life as a woman. I don't want to have to deal with periods or pregnancy or other problems women have. That being said, I am not like most guys. I know that women have a tough life when it comes to having to deal with physical issues.

Now onto my crossdressing, it's not about creating a new identity, or about escapism, or about wanting to be a woman...it's about the way the clothes feel and about how I feel when wearing them. I would love to be able to be accepted as a straight guy but spend the day in a cute skirt with cute shoes and a nice shirt on...but I know the chances of that are kinda slim, so if I was to go out dressed in women's clothing, my only option would be to try and present as a woman...something where what I'm wearing "fits" the way I'm presenting. Some call it being a woman, some call it blending in, playing the part so to speak, some call it being a sick perverted [word that begins with F and rhymes with bag]. I know I'll never be a woman and I know I'm not gay nor have any desires to be involved with a man regardless of how I'm dressed. That leaves only one option is to blend. To act like I am, and have always been, a woman when I am out if I am dressed in women's clothing.

I don't want to be a woman, and am aware that just because I shave my body, put on makeup, stuff a bra and hide my penis, I am not the same as a woman. I also know that if I was to have my body surgically and hormonally altered such as having or growing breasts and having my penis turned inside my body to look like a vagina, I still will not be a woman. I just like wearing cute clothing occasionally, but am aware that guys wearing cutesy clothing isn't really accepted, and that if I was to have any hope of being accepted as just another person in society, not someone trying to seek attention, that if I was wearing a skirt or a top that typically looks feminine I'll have to fully play the part.

[The previous was not meant to be conclusive of all crossdressers. This is merely my own attempt at explaining how I feel about myself.]

The truth is that I don't feel any one of us can substantially define what it is to be a woman or a man. Philosophers have danced that dance for hundreds of years and they can't agree, so how are we to have the definitive answer?

We are on a sliding scale. Some of us are fetishists and fixate on one particular item of clothing, others enjoy the entire scenario of dressing and garnish either physical or emotional pleasure, release, satisfaction, all of the above from the experience. Some use this as an escape from the "reality" of the pressures of being a man. Some are on a journey of self-discovery and know only that this form of expression allows them to reach deep and touch something inside them that they cannot otherwise explore. Some began with the clothing only to find that they are meant to be something other than the being they were born as and must pursue that goal.

Is the Grass Greener?? It's almost always greener. We are greedy by nature. We all want more than what we have and what we see beyond the fence beckons us somehow. It may not be greener, but it may appear to be for some. Some are content not to climb the fence while others see it as a hurdle to be jumped.

Now that the philosophy lesson is over....perhaps a more direct and specific question would be best if we are to provide true insight into what motivates us. We are all individuals with individual needs. A general discussion can be useful, but specificity would provide more insight.

For me, crossdressing is the way I need to express my feminine side. I am also only attracted to women and I'm married with 2 children (they don't know about Sara). I give GG's a lot of "credit" for finding males attractive, I don't see it. I believe that gender expression is a sliding scale. Some GG's are very feminine. They only do feminine things and dress as such. There are masculine acting GG's too, who wear boyfrined jeans or shop the men's department and do manly activities and where little or no makeup and never a dress. These two GG's are both strictly heterosexual. Sexual attraction is seperate from gender expression. My gender identity is male (I don't wish to change my anatomy and I'm heterosexual). For me I feel great when I present as a female! I am less stressed and more patient. Most times I present as a male and I also feel right and do some very macho type activities and job.
I hope you can see where we are coming from. Please rememberthe gender identity, gender expression and sexual orientation are seperate and they can be found in any combination. You mention that there are many people you admire but none you wish to be. I think if you look a little further inside you may find that you do desire to emulate some of their traits and mannerisms. Women have great latitude in crossing the gender identity line. Sure they will meet some resistance but other GG's will most often support them. Males wishing to do feminine/female things are most often looked down upon. I think this is where some think the grass is greener, I don't agree becuase there are other challenges for women that even the field. Lower wages for one.

"To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman. It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."


Ah, someone whom I don't think has twigged what a typical cross-dresser is! ;-)
I can obviously only answer for myself, but here goes:

No, I have very little idea about what it takes to be a woman. It isn't really something that I find important as I don't want to be one anyway. That isn't the aim. I may want to look and even act feminine to some extent, but that isn't the same thing at all. It would be better to consider me to be an actor. The costume and the performance should be as good as I can make them, but I don't want to be Captain Hook! It isn't really about "imitating women", more about "acting the part in a style that we fondly imagine to be feminine". Even if it's wrong, it's still fun!

The point about "embrace being a female" is interesting. I suspect that there may be misunderstanding here on both sides. It's quite possible for a CD to "embrace being a female" to a sufficient degree to satisfy Him/Herself without needing to really absorb everything about being female. The mind is a wonderous instrument and can easily fill in any gaps and make the world rather pretty through it's rose-coloured filters! It has to work like that. We are CD, not TS. We aren't chemically equipped for it to be any other way. It's a nice trick of self-delusion that keeps us happy. On the other hand, a TS will "embrace being female" in a different sense altogether as H/She doesn't have a true male viewpoint and wants to be female, pretending isn't sufficient.

I have to agree that some of the threads appear to be "girls dorm" style, but that's because of what we are - men playing at being female (men are always playing at something - we can't help it). That's probably going to earn me some flack, but there's a lot of truth in it. It's important to remember though, that even if this is "playing" it's not our choice to play the game in the first place.

I don't really think any of us really care about the grass on the other side. We don't want to go there anyway. Just looking over the wall is sufficient. :-)

NO, I don't know what it takes to be a woman. I am not even sure what it takes to be a human.

This isn't meant to be rude in any manner. One time I told an AfroAmerican friend "I know how you feel" and his reply was "No, you will never know how I feel. You only know how you THINK I feel." This is true for many things. And I do understand why the GG asked that question. I also agree that many here believe that magic and fairy dust will make you what you are not. I just put it off to ignorance on their part. How many times have we heard that "If only I was female the world would be abetter place...all would be sunshine and lollipops."? It is common for people to want something. I know I want things that will never be but that doesn't stop me from wishing.

So, technically what it takes to be a female is XX chromosomes (or at least two X chromosomes combined with maybe a Y). The ability and body parts to conceive and bear children. To be a woman would be a more mental thing. And it is based in social function of where you are. When people here say that they want to be "female" or "feminine" they are just putting their own values on what they believe they should have. Does that make sense? they can no more be a woman than they can be a dolphin. They are saying they want to appear as much as they believe they can.

This thread has been open for less than 24 hours now.

Many people have responded from the heart to answer the questions in the opening post.

I do hope that the O/P will take the time to respond in the same manner. I would like very much to understand how this question and the answers have affected the O/P.

Thank you for an interesting discussion.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Alberta_Pat

This thread has been open for less than 24 hours now.

Many people have responded from the heart to answer the questions in the opening post.

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[SIZE="6"]As long as the CD stereotype prevails most women will never know "OUR SECRET" We do not talk with women and women who know do not talk with women who don't. Go figure? :brolleyes:[/SIZE]

Thanks ReineD for posting this thread. Now answer honestly: are you the anonymous GG? Just kidding, geez! But seriously, the responses here are some of the most thought provoking I've read in a while. Although the original question was, as someone said "rhetorical" in nature, it forced some serious discussion. Thanks again. Always trying to get to the bottom of why we/I CD. Tear in my eye. LB

Can somebody translate Eluuzion's answer for me? Lol..:bonk:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by LaurenB

Thanks ReineD for posting this thread. Now answer honestly: are you the anonymous GG?

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Nope, I'm just the messenger here.

My SO and I don't have any issues with the CDing. She dresses at will and goes out alone or with me. We're completely open with it. But, that's because it is a second relationship for us both, and he did tell me at the very beginning. I did not begin a life with him, have kids, and find out years afterwards there were a few crucial things he had not disclosed about himself. And I do feel secure that my SO loves me and wants to be with me, even while he is dressed.

But I've got to say, that even in my case in the beginning there were times when I felt insecure because I thought he wanted to be with other men, other TGs, or other GGs. Like it or not, there IS something about the CDing and the type of reaching out to others that some CDs engage in, that make it seem to the wife or girlfriend as if the CD feels his SO isn't enough for him. It takes time to understand that a CD is not motivated the same way necessarily as a non-CD. :p

To the anonymous GG: Some women like to wear makeup and dresses, and some women do not wear makeup and prefer to wear jeans and t-shirts. The same is true of men. I like to dress up and wear makeup, just like some women do. That's it. After many years of thinking about and talking about crossdressing, I have finally realized that it really is that simple. Just my take on this issue, I hope it helps.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rachel Flowers

I don't think, GG, you have asked the question you need the answer to. I think you are hurting, scared and angry and I'm really worried that our replies here won't soothe, reassure or calm you.

...

I genuinely hope you resolve whatever issue caused you to want to ask this question. Best wishes, Anonymous GG.

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Rachel, I think you are very sweet. :hugs:

I have been in gender therapy for over 2 years. Do I "know what it takes to be a woman" ? No. Everything I have raised in therapy as evidence that I am perhaps not a woman, my therapist has pointed out to me the extremely wide range of "woman", and told me not to measure myself against arbitrary standards and to instead concentrate on how I want to live.

What I do know from experience, and from watching others, is what it takes to be a "man". And I am not there, and I am not comfortable in being a "man".

Is there only "man" and "woman" ? Is a person necessarily one or the other? As far as I am concerned, the answer is NO, that a person can be a mix of male and female. That is the state I live my life these last several years.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Marleena

Can somebody translate Eluuzion's answer for me? Lol..:bonk:

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Hiya Marleena,
Most of the people who know me well, know better than to try and unravel some of the things I talk about. Sometimes it is best to just smile, stand really still, and wait until I wander away. Whatever you do…don’t run!:heehee:

Maybe this translation will help…

Maybe in order to understand mankind, we need to look at the word itself.
“Mankind“…Basically, it is made up of two separate words…“mank” and “ind”.
What do these two words mean? It’s a mystery, and that’s why so is mankind.

Ok, seriously…I can never be serious…:battingeyelashes:

there...all better!

:hugs:
:love:

To Crossdressers:

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman.

I'm the first to admit that I have little understanding of what it "takes" to be a woman. It's a much deeper and complex thing that I am capable of fully understanding. I can perceive bits and pieces through the media and by direct observation, but to comprehend the entire picture? No way!

OTOH, at least I am making an attempt to gain some understanding of the opposite gender, something in which most GMs and GGs aren't really interested

It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts. I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums.

Yes it is. Read a copy of Vogue or participate on one of the GG makeup forums and you'll get exactly the same feeling. Like GGs we CDers have both serious and frivolous sides. We put a lot of attention and effort into CDing and for that we should have a bit of fun.

OTOH, we also spend time on threads where we agonize over how to preserve relationships between CDers and their wives, how to understand and come to grips with ourselves, how to deal with discrimination, and even how to deal with having a friend take her own life. It isn't all panty colors and nail polish.

Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc.

CDers admire women and, even though we probably don't have a chance of truly understanding them, we do want to understand and enjoy at least the visual and tactile expression that they enjoy. When I dress, for a short time I can be truly creative about my appearance. I can put together interesting combinations of clothing. I can enjoy the various textures of fabrics that are normally forbidden to me.

Now, beyond that, how can I truly acquire an understanding of what it is to be a woman? I cannot pass close scrutiny of GGs, so any interaction with female social groups is severely restricted. Mainstream GGs aren't exactly thrilled by the prospect of admitting CDers to their social circles. the only meaningful interaction I have is with other CDers and a few accepting GGs

On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side...

No, but I do appreciate visiting a well-maintained garden now and then, even if I cannot stay there.

Like some others have said, I don't think I ever had intentions or desires to be a woman. I'm glad I'm a man. That said I find some women's clothing to be a huge stress relief and feel simply awesome. And honestly, I don't think I could deal with being a woman for any number of reasons.

Even though I'm extremely fresh in terms of understanding it all I've learned this much: Like any group that has a common interest, there is an unmeasurable amount of variance between the whys, the extremes, and the interest level. For myself personally, I could probably best explain myself in a way others would treat a certain sport or others would treat smoking.

Sometimes I just feel the need to put on a pair of pantyhose and heels and after I get my fix I feel centered and stress free.

I started as CD at the age of about 12-13, wearing my sisters pleated skirts and panty hoses.
The question "I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman." is asked the wrong way. Be all were raised as boys to become a strong male, husband, father, worker or whatever. To me it's impossible to answer with YES, because I'm a man. I love to dress and enjoy going out to live that part of my personality. It gives me relieve of a stressful life. Initially, now at 50, I think a terrible accident and trauma caused my habit to crossdress. Perhaps, after some permanent damage to body with scars, I wanted to be beautiful and adorable - for myself. That was to be able to accept my new being and situation after the trauma.
I can't imagine what it needs to be a female, I would need to be born again as female to know. I don't want to imitate a female, I mostly wear clothes, what I'ld like to see on women, because women are the most beautiful part of this world. being dressed takes away my fears, pain and thoughts - almost like a drug.
After several years or decades, I accepted the CD part of me and try to make the best of it. I don't want to be female, I feel happy a as male, father and husband. My wife tolerates but would give a lot if I could stop being a CD - which is not possible and not even desired from my part.
When I'm out & about, I try behave differently, a female could probably see the difference between my male life and my life en femme. I'm calmer, relaxed and move differently en femme. I'm not as communicative as I'm as a male, perhaps I behave much like a woman - I just don't know. I do know, that after changing back to being the male I am, I don't incoporate any of my behaviour when en femme in my daily life.
I don't think any of my close male friends or even female friends would really believe if I told them I'm a CD.
When en femme, I'm totally dressed from bottom to top, including underwear. Wearing skirts makes me feel true freedom, of course, just like any CD, I love to see myself in the mirror or in any kind of reflection when out in public - that's part of the whole experience.

I'm bigender, meaning that I have a blend of both male and female personality traits. It's difficult for me to know if I possess the full complement of both gender's traits considering that I've never been all male, nor have I been all female. So, I guess I would have to say that I at least partially understand what it takes to be a woman.

Regarding your observation about posts involving panties and the like, well I must confess that I don't really care for them either and I tend to pass them by. Personally, I prefer threads about crossdressers and their relationships with loved ones, especially spouses. I particularily enjoy happy endings. (and beginnings too)

With respect to dressing as somone I admire, it's actually more like dressing as someone that I am.

Also, I have never believed in the greener grass theory, of any sort. I suppose that is one of the reasons that I've been married to the same woman for over 36 years, because from where I sit the grass is plenty green.

You know dear, I understand that you may not exactly be thrilled with crossdressing. After all, it is a pretty unusual practice, but the fact that you are willing to learn about it bespeaks a level of caring within you that I hope will help you gain a better understnding of crossdressing and how harmless it really is.

Good luck,

Tanya

Here is one thing that hasn't been brought up. Something most GGs don't understand about dressing. There is not a straight forward answer to this question. There is not a uniform response, because there is not a uniform reason why we all dress. In fact, I would say there are different categories of dressers. There are those like me who have done this all of their life, with no desire to transistion, and do this because I was raised this way. There are others who do this as a fetish/fantasy type thing, where sexual satisfaction is their desire. There are others who feel trapped, scared, and feel as if they should have been a woman in the first place. It is all different.

I am with the aggressive posters on this one, who say you obviously have more to the story than what was told. The way this question was written clearly shows your bias and belief crossdressing is just wrong. I, and I'm sure many others on here, would like to know why that bias is there. On a side note, I am not like many others who will put women in general on a pedestal. Sure, you can say we will never achieve being a woman. That's the same as saying "you don't have what it takes to be a woman." That's the way you feel. The way I feel, you don't have what it takes to be a man. It's a silly thing to say. It seems you have fallen into the stereotypical view of a crossdresser. We all want to get a sex change, get double D implants, strut our stuff on every street corner in pink latex skirts, and we are all homosexual. I want you to see this isn't the case, but a stereotype. Try to understand why I can not answer your question. Of those on here, there can be hundreds if not thousands of reasons why someone would dress. Different limits. Different sexual orientation. Different everything! Some might think they will reach the point one day where they know what its like to be a woman. Others, like me, don't want to simply because we have no desire to.

Another really thoughtful thread – Reine, thanks for re-starting it. As with other threads dealing with “why we do it”, there are all sorts of reasons and we’re seeing this here. My own feeling aligns with Gabi, Kimdl, IamSara and Sally24. It took me more than 40 years to realize that I had gender ID issues that started way back. I’m not trying to imitate women – I am me. For whatever reason, I’m more comfortable when I am dressed, I am more able to express emotions and seem to relate to people more. These last two emotional things are becoming part of me no matter what I am wearing. Is it about body parts? For me, only in the sense that wearing forms make me feel more complete (and of course look better!). Is it physical? Sure – I love the feel of women’s clothes!

There were times in my life that I very much wanted to be a woman. And there have been many times that I'd wished I had just been born that way so that the gender dysphoria that I've experienced for much of my life would not be there. But over the years, I've come to the conclusion that transition is simply not for me. I'm a guy, and a guy I will remain, and that's not such a bad thing.

But here's the rub: I love wearing skirts and dresses. I love wearing hosiery and high heels. I love the long, pretty hair, the jewelry, the makeup, the nice fingernails. I even like "having" breasts. As a man, all of this is denied to me, both physically and socially. So I crossdress in order to come as close as I can to actually being a woman and taking the time to enjoy all of this, if even for a few hours at a time. Sure, I know that pretty clothes and stuff is not what womanhood is all about. But I don't really have to worry about that, do I? For me, that is what it's all about, and it doesn't have to get more complicated than that.

I still think at times that I'd rather have been born female. So in addressing your "grass is greener" statement, let me say that to me, it's a moot point. I know some here whine about it a bit, but I'm way past that by now. I may not know "what it takes" to be a woman, but had I been born that way, it wouldn't matter one bit. I hear women often say, if even in jest, that men would not be able to handle being a woman. And that's a load of crap, since but for a flip of a coin, a genetic crapshoot, any one of us would have been female instead, and would have lived our lives that way instead. I don't hear these same women telling other women that they can't handle being a woman. One just learns to handle being who one is, and that's really all there is to it. And any man could say the very same thing to a woman. Being a man is a whole lot more than just being able to pee standing up. So I think all of us, both genders, can drop the whole argument that we couldn't handle or understand what it means to be a woman or a man. My answer to either side is, "Yes, I could. Easily."

So let me bottom-line this for you. I dress now because I like to. I enjoy female emulation. And when I emulate women, I like to do so when they are all dressed up to the nines. I enjoy it. I may not fool everyone all the time when I do it, but I no longer really care about that. It allows me to experience things from a feminine perspective, and in that light, allows me to see the world from a broader point of view, rather than an only male or female perspective. And while over the years, women have drifted into the male arena, insisting that they are still feminine, they still often frown upon men who crossdress, and view them as something less than men, decrying that this is their arena, and that we have no business there. This is the double standard that is often referred to here. So no, I'm not claiming that I know "what it takes to be a woman", but then, I don't really care about that either.

Here is my shallow but honest answer. I'll take all the good and leave the bad of playing the female role.I feel that I have used up all my "boy fun tickets",so I'll try to use the rest of my "girl fun tickets"up before I get too old. It is the "power of the Pussycat" that intriques me..Women don't need men the same way men need women.They have an unspoken "power" over boys. Rogina is as close as I can get to having that power. I can't be a woman because I was born a man and at best have mixed instincts and traits. So, I will live my life in my own way and spend as much time as possible in Rogina's personna.This is what makes me happiest,and another birthday has passed. I'll play the girl.

I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman

To me, this is the crux of the issue. When Tina first appeared in August of 2005, she knew almost nothing about being a woman. Heck, she didn't even know she existed for more than a few days! However, once it was clear that there was a feminine spark, the investigation was moved to full-speed ahead.

Luckily Tina and I have a full-time mentor in these matters, my wife! For the last 6 years we have explored and discussed every aspect of femininity and what it's like to be a woman, including what it's like to grow up as a girl! These conversations continue to this day and although new topics arise less often, they still do come up and every topic is fascinating. Obviously we talked about all the "trappings" of being a woman so that Tina could emerge from our imaginations into a real person who could then experience the world from a feminine point of view. There was the topic of language and voice and how communication changes when you don't have the "basso" part of the voice to bring to bear, effecting both the use of words and the choice of words along with inflections and pitch. Then there was all the psychological and sociological issues that, as a man, I had never experienced or even knew existed. The simplest was probably not trying to "solve" every point of a discussion, but just discuss and even bi*ch a little without solving the problem. Seeing the world from a feminine perspective, and the differences in socialization when growing up as one gender or the other provoke fascinating and very informative discussions.

With all that said, it then came down to letting Tina "loose" to find out who she is. It's one thing to talk about issues and quite another to experience life from a feminine point of view. This is the adventure that brings it all into focus, and will be ongoing forever.

So, do I know what it takes to be a woman? I'll never know perfectly, but the more I work at it the better I begin to understand (so my wife tells me). It's a lifetime journey and I'm delighted to have taken as many steps along that journey as I already have, and I'm very much looking forward to more and more steps!

There are 4 pages of responses to this thread now. I don't suppose the anonymous gg could now respond with her thoughts, and possibly a brief description on her situation which led to asking this question?

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Originally Posted by Marissa333

There are 4 pages of responses to this thread now. I don't suppose the anonymous gg could now respond with her thoughts, and possibly a brief description on her situation which led to asking this question?

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She's working on it. :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

She's working on it. :)

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That'll be good; set some minds at rest!

I wear skirts and dresses because I love the clothes and underwear. I do not want to be a woman and anyway how can I be. I realise that the feelings that I get, from wearing these clothes, will not be the same as women get from wearing the same clothes. I don't believe that women should have any more clothing choices than men and any add ons, such as makeup, wigs, etc. should be available to both.

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

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Originally Posted by ReineD

She's working on it. :)

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I'm looking forward to hearing what she has to say. I sense that her question was asked from a position of some distress and I hope that our responses were helpful to her.

Hmmm . . . you know I have to wonder if I should leave this one alone because my answer can be a bit dark . . .

After my mother and father were divorced, I had to live with my father for a year or so when I was around four years old. My father was a raging alcoholic and every once in a while he liked to come home reeking of alcohol and beat my step mother to a bleeding a pulp. One day when he slammed in the front door, she hid my step sister and I under the dinning room table and did her best to protect us even as she was beaten so bad she couldn't open her eyes.
Yes, I know what it really means to be a woman.

My grandmother and my mother (who was still on crutches from her latest hip and spine operation) storming into my fathers home to rescue me and take me back home with them. My tiny grandmother getting right up in my fathers face and loudly telling him that she absolutely would kill him if he tried to stop us from leaving. My father backed down because he knew way down deep that my grandmother wasn't kidding or exaggerating.
Yep, I know what it really means to be a woman.

My mother and grandmother both working as waitresses and as a hostess long hard hours to make a home for the five of us in a small mobile home. Tiny mobile home, very little in the way of possessions, and yet I look back on it as one of the best times in my life because we all felt safe and loved,and all for the efforts of my grandmother, mother, and even my big sister.
Yep, I have a clue what it really means to be a woman.

My tiny and frail mother buying a tiny one room cabin way to hell and gone out in the mojave desert and turning it into a home for us, someplace that was ours. A woman born and raised in the city of Los Angeles, barely capable of walking, raising children in a one room cabin with no running water, only a fireplace for heat, and for the first six months with no electricity. All of this, because that's what it took to take care of her children with the means that she had.
Yes anonymous, I know what a woman really is and it has very little to do with the clothes. It's really much closer to being a super hero if you ask me . . .

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Originally Posted by ReineD

She's working on it. :)

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Fine! But, after all our posts, do u think she has any clue as to what we r all about? I'm NOT holding my breath!

After Kim's post, I'd just drift off into the nite if I was her! Kim! My gosh you've come a long way haven't u? Truly inspiring, really!

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Originally Posted by Asche

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

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Asche,

Your commentary here strikes me as openly hostile. It appears that by what you have claimed here that the majority of the responders have missed the boat on the OP's question, but I think you're dead wrong.

The asker of the question made some very clear comments in her original statment and in her followup clarifications, and the CDers here have honestly and candidly attempted to answer her. She asked not for our explanations about whether we think we know "what it is like to be a woman" as you have said here; she asked whether we know what it "takes to be a woman". In order for this woman to understand the motivations and thoughts of those who crossdress, each person has chosen to respond to various comments that the OP made.

Quite obviously no man will EVER know fully what it takes to be a woman. And I think that many of the postings in this thread acknowledge that. But who ever said that CDing was based fully about reality anyways? No CDer here is trying to become a woman. That is for the domain of the TS. And so as a result, CDers by definition are engaging in the realm of fantasy. You interpret this as though it was a despicable act and that it somehow disconnects us from reality. I can assure you, it does not, although it certainly does give us some relief from the hassles and harassments in the real world.

I am sure that every man here can honestly say that they see women, and expecially their SOs for who they are and not for the fantasy they want to have of them. Why you ask? Because the fantasy is NOT about their SO! The fantasy of the CD is about their OWN persona and not the persona of another woman! And further, that fantasy can be as connected or disconnected from the reality of being a woman as the CDer chooses. It is not a matter for judgment by outsiders. It is a personal, individual expression that is modeled after the beauty that is seen in womanhood by each CDer in an abstract sense. Several of the responders have made it quite clear that their CDing is about their own identity and their own perceptions of womanhood. They have stated that their fantasy is about their own identity, not the identity of women in general or the identity of their SO.

And since each CDer is an individual, their fantasy is individualized. But just because it is a fantasy does not make it invalid. Just because it is created using externals like clothes, jewelry and makeup does not mean it has no meaning to the CDer. And just because an SO dislikes the fantasy does not mean that the CDer thinks less of the SO or of the reality of her womanhood.

I have never seen any CDer ignore or deny the experience of their SO and insist on a version that they prefer. I've not seen a CDer lose connection with reality to the extent that their SO "just kind of disappears" into the CDer's fantasy of who they are. That statement is simply ludicrous.

Asche, you've really gone off and made some broad, negative generalizations about CDers, that we are somehow disconnected from reality. I believe the same about the original comments made by the OP on this thread. I can assure you that we CDers who take refuge in a harmless fantasy from time to time "can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy."

At least for myself, I will answer your question: I can honestly say that I can see women, and especially my SO, for who they are, and not for the fantasy I want to have of them. The reason I can say that is because my fantasy is not about my SO or about any woman in particular. I have chosen to view the best of womanhood and emulate it in myself. The fact that it is a fantasy in no way denigrates my view of women and in no way have I lost touch with reality because of it. I love my SO wholeheartedly, I respect her womanhood in her own right, and I participate actively in her personal growth. As proof of this statement, I invite you to read several of my posts where I describe the particular ways I have participated in her personal growth. And if anything, my activity as a CDer has enriched the quality of her life and has improved the quality of her womanhood and her own personal expression of femininity.

And as I posted previously in this thread, I believe that as CDers, "We have a depth of compassion and emotion that goes beyond the average male. Because of our uniquely amplified feminine perceptions, we CDers strive to empathize with all of women's sufferings and concerns. Feeling feminine also includes feeling nurturing, caring, and loving. In our femininity, we extend ourselves and act more civil, more gentle, and more loving than our cisgendered fellows."

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Asche

I think a lot of the replies in this thread miss the point of what the OP is getting after.

I don't think she was asking, "why do you CD" or "what is CDing like for you?"

The focus of her question is CDs thinking that they know what it is like to be a woman, and CDs thinking that being a woman is all about panties and makeup and girly mannerisms. Basically, it's about the conflict between many CDs' fantasy of what being a woman is and the reality that GFs live every day.

I'm not a woman, but from what I do know (mostly by listening to what GFs say and reading what they write), there is a huge gulf between what CDs mean when they talk about "feeling feminine" or about their "female side," and what most GFs experience. I have the impression from the posts at this site that a lot of CDs either don't see that gulf, or prefer to pretend that it doesn't exist. In some cases, they will flat out tell GFs that they are wrong about their own experience of being a woman.

This is crazy-making. To have someone ignore or deny your experience of yourself and insist on a version that they prefer is really hard to deal with. You have to keep pushing it away, or else sooner or later you just kind of disappear into someone else's fantasy of who you are.

I'm going to guess that the OP's real goal in her question was to somehow get some kind of affirmation that the CD fantasy of womanhood is just a fantasy, and doesn't purport to describe the reality of her life, and that even people who have this fantasy can tell the difference between real women and the fantasy. That she's not crazy or unwomanly or wrong because her experience of being a woman is so very different from the CD idea of it.

The question is: how many men here can honestly say that they can see women, and especially their SOs, for who they are, and not for the fantasy they want to have of them? (For that matter, how many people in society as a whole can honestly say that?)

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Asche understood what I think the OP meant with this thread...she understands with heart and soul.
I see you are taking some heat for your post, you don't deserve it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Momarie

Asche understood what I think the OP meant with this thread...she understands with heart and soul.
I see you are taking some heat for your post, you don't deserve it.

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So do you also think as Asche has inferred, that CDers are losing touch with reality?

I don't think she or I inferred that at all.
I think she had the empathy to understand what the OP intended with the thread.

Please don't derail the thread, if you have to get mad at me, please do so in a pm.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Momarie

I don't think she or I inferred that at all.
I think she had the empathy to understand what the OP intended with the thread.

Please don't derail the thread, if you have to get mad at me, please do so in a pm.

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I am not mad at you at all, Momarie. Neither am I attempting to derail this thread. I was responding to the comment you made indirectly about my post on this thread, i.e. "taking some heat", and asking you a specific question. I asked that question to you on this thread because I feel that Asche inferred by her post that the majority of the responders had missed the meaning of the OP, and I disagreed. In addition, one of the reasons I was giving Asche "heat" was that I feel that Asche was inferring that CDers had lost touch with reality. If you read my post to Asche you can see that. Yet your comments seemed to endorse her position and you seemed to agree with her about that.

I asked you the question on the thread because you made your comment about my posting on the thread, where it properly belongs. And if you had made your comment about Asche's post to me on a PM, then I would have responded in a PM. I have no private beef with you or anyone on this forum and I was attempting to obtain clarification from you; I don't think that a PM was really the place to address it. I think that is completely fair, don't you?

Why do I wear a football jersey when I go to a game? Don't I realize how difficult the game is? I'm just sampling the good parts of the team experience, but wimping out on the two-a-days. Well, yes. Yes, I am. And I have no intention of giving birth or spending a lifetime butting my head against a glass ceiling.

But the GG seems to be under the impression that I just DECIDED to like this particular hobby. Believe me, sweetie, if opting out was on the menu, I woulda given this up a long time ago. I know life as a woman ain't all slips and slumber parties. But life as a CD is no day at the beach either.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by bridget thronton

I have had the opportunity to enjoy female friendship and support. I am in a position where I need to take care of a disabled spouse (cooking, cleaning, washing). I have a good idea how hard women have it. I have experienced gender discriination on a small scale in virtual worlds. I do not think the grass is greener, but I am happier doing the things I do. A. night with the boys in a sports bar holds no interest for me.

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I am in a similar situation; Wife is both handicapped and starting of dementia.
I do it all, cooking, cleaning, laundry, Pills and other Med's, Everything.
I love her and I know that she would do the same for me if the roles where
reversed. Your correct in that being a Woman is not all sunshine and Roses.
But just being able to wear special clothes from time to time is a treat for me.
It is not trying to become a woman, That will never happen, but I can have my
moment in time as it where.
Rader

To anonymous:

"I'm curious to know your thoughts on whether or not you know what it takes to be a woman."

Most likely, not any more than any of us know what it takes to 'be a man'. We're just being (or trying to be) ourselves. I certainly can say i can't and will never know what genetic women go through in their life.

"It's more than just clothing, shoes, makeup, and female parts."

I can't speak for anyone other than myself, but yeah. i know. Honestly, i don't think anyone is saying it *is*. Perhaps they're saying that CDing or the CDing fantasy for some is just about clothing, shoes, makeup and female parts. Maybe.

"I've read how some of you want to embrace being a female but I've only read posts on things like pretty panties, stockings, and dresses or which female body part would some of you like to have etc, which makes me feel this is very physical and like one big slumber party on the forums."

Those sorts of threads honestly irritate me too, but for some people it *is* very physical and i'm not sure there's entirely anything wrong with that. As for the 'slumber party' aspect.... yay slumber parties? the community aspect is certainly a part, if not a large part, of why people stick around in places like this, not to mention if people have had to deal with ostracism most of their lives, finally finding a place they feel comfortable and safe is really, really nice.



"Sure some might admire women and I get that. I admire a lot of people too, but in turn I don't try and imitate them by dress etc."

I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here. Imitating the people you admire is an incredibly common human trait.

"On another note, do you really think that the grass is greener on the other side..."

To close it out, honesty. I'm not sure if any others feel this same way, but for me, i had very few friends growing up, and all i ever saw were groups of girls. I could never find the girl that was as lonely as me. So yeah. I thought for a long time that the grass was greener on the other side. I can't say that i don't still, just a little. It would certainly be easier to look cute in a dress if i was as tall and relatively skinny as i am now, only female.

Hey everyone, I received this response tonight:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG

I have read everyone's responses and quite a few I don't think quite understood what I was trying to ask. I can't type too much right now, I'm on my phone, but when I get to my laptop tomorrow I will write more and explain myself a bit. But thank you to all who have taken the time to reply so far.

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I have been considering this thread for a couple of days. Do I know what it takes to be a woman? No, but then again I have the same knowledge of being a man. I know how to be me, although I can surprise myself from time to time. Does dressing make me feel like a woman? No, but it gives me comfort and a small bit of fleeting happiness. Happy moments are too few and far between as far as I am concerned to be ignored or shut away.

I don't know if this will add anything to the discussion or not, but I hope you can find what you are looking for.

I will never know what it really like to be a woman, only those born a woman will. Women are always under a man , what I mean by that is just the way things are in this world. Overseas a man can kill his wife if she upsets him. Here in the States a moslum(sp) killed his daughter because she dishonored him and his family in his eye's. My wife has had six children and I was there to watch the hell she went through bring them into this world and many women have said that if men had to have the babies there would not be any. I agree with that. Many women are beat up by their husbands or boy friends, raped or killed every day only because a man wants to. No we cannot know what it is like to be a true woman but that does not stop us who love what a woman is and what to be as close to what you are any less. As a little boy growing up I always hear the saying that little girls are made of everything nice and etc. and that still goes. A person can change his or her sex but they will never really be the other sex but that will never stop us of wanting what we cannot have. Even in heaven there is not supposed to be men and women but a spirit. That is as close as we will ever get to being what our heart desires. We will keep trying our best and because of that maybe man will care a little more for the women in their life and the woman will understand that we CS just want to be a like them as we can be in this life. You only live once. Live it to the fullest.

:). Very Very well SAID I wish I could put it the way you did.

TxKimberly....You and I grew up the same. Your post brought back many memories of my Mom putting me under or behind something, while my Dad knocked the door down and then beat my Mom. We had nothing, but my Mom loved and protected me. I too remember all the bad my father caused, but I remember the woman who gave me all she had and that was her love.

To the OP....whatever you hope to gain from the different answers you get, just remember....we all come from different backgrounds and we all just want to work our way through life. Some take different roads to get there, some wear different cloths, some are female and some are male, but we all have one thing in common...we are all of the human race.

....................

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Anonymous GG

Sorry to everyone that it has taken me so long to reply. I dont get on my laptop that often anymore to sit and reply to long posts etc. And on my phone it gets kinda hard cause it would take me about 20yrs =)

Anyways to the point. When I asked my orginal question about if you really knew what it is to be a woman I guess I should of explained it a bit further cause ofcourse I know you guys dont know what its like to deliver children, go through the "monthly" visitor etc.. thats not really what I was trying to get at.. and I know you all cant know how a womans mind really works cause as some of you said you are all men just wanting to wear some clothing that has been marked for females. I get that =) My thought on all this is I understand that some say its just clothes.. they just want to feel and comfort of the clothing (I can understand that) then there are some that extend further and put on a wig and makeup. To me (please remember this is all just from what I see and read on the forums and my own opinion) that takes it a bit more then "just clothes" which again is just fine too.

But then you get into these posts of people posting their panty color (I know some people used that for a example in their reply here) and for the life of me I can never remember a time when I felt it was important for me to share my panty color with my friends online or offline. Maybe when I was 3 and I had wonder woman undies and I thought they were so neat! lol And then the posts asking if you would rather have a vagina or boobs, YET I keep hearing over and over again "oh its just clothes we just want to have the feel and comfort of the clothes we dont want to be women. Yet tons and TONS of posts about wanting womens body parts, trying to do whatever you can to pull off being a woman yet I keep seeing that its nothing more then so it confuses me. (And yes I am sure there are some on the forums that for them its JUST clothes and they dont want anything more then a pair of panties or something like that.

What I am trying to get at is that sometimes its like a over glorification of females and you make it out to be just all panties, pillow fights and makeup. There is more to trying to pull off being a woman. Manners would be a good starting point and not over exposing ones self as in "oh im wearing red lace panties hehehe" True ladies dont go around bragging about that. Respect yourselves more cause what I seem to just read about most of the time is a bunch of men all ages acting like middle school girls. yet you say you would like to get more respect from others etc you can get that by acting more adult with things.. but then again this all is JMO ofcourse and I am sure a lot of ppl will be upset with me for saying some of these things but thats how I feel and I feel this way cause of things that you all post on this forum. And I am pretty sure there are a few others who might feel the same way. This section scared the crap outta me when I first found out about my husband and joined here. Gave me many wrong impressions on what really CDing is all about.

So in the end some took my question to extreme and missed my point and some kinda hit it on the head. Not do you know what it takes to be a woman as in what we deal with in our lives.. but how we act and conduct ourselves our mannerisms. (And yes I do know that does not apply to ALL women there are MANY women who are questionable when it comes to their actions lol. just like every CDer is not the same.)

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Please just know that even though we here are all similar, we are all very different. Just like all humans. Some do love talking about panty colors and what not, and there are a large number of us that don't participate in those threads. Some are bi, gay or strait. Some wear makeup and wigs, and some don't. Some try to act like a woman, and some just like the clothes. So what I am trying to say is you can't look at these threads, and directly relate them to your SO. The only way to know what level of commitment your SO is at, is to have an open dialogue with your SO.

As far as the juvenile discussion are concerned, one of the girls posted here that a lot of us are new to this, and our brains treat it like we are young girls discovering what it is to be a girl for the first time. Which directly relates to your comment about only shareing what type of panties you are wearing if you were 3 and had wonder woman panties. To some of us, we feel like 3 y/o girls wearing wonder woman panties which is why we share it :)

Also keep in mind this. We are not openly excepted in most places, so a lot of times we post things that the majority of the population would never talk about because regardless of the topic, we get support and honest opinions that really help our self esteem most times. And if talking about panty color keeps us girls minds out of really dark places, then I will reply by saying "I think those pink panties were a great choice for that outfit" :)