DADT, (don't ask, don't tell). What does that REALLY MEAN!?

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Originally Posted by Teresa

Wen,
I'm still not with this argument, you can only stand so much self punishment trying to appease others, before you're driven to the point of nearly ending your life , it's a road I intend never to take again yada yada yada....

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Teresa, fine. Do whatever you want to do with your life and have fun. I don't care much what people think either, except for my own conscience. But before I sit back and munch buttery popcorn while watching you become your gender counselor's next great success, I'll make one more obsrvation only and keep the rest to myself. Maybe you'll find it constructive.

I've seen your exact situation happen over and over, for decades. Enough where, generally, I already know how it will progress. You have been reading, verbatim, from the approved narrative script which I've heard countless times from countless CD's for many years. You are not thinking critically, you are not stepping back and analyzing your emotions in any meanignful way, you are just rotely repeating the same cherrypicked information that supports, or seems to support, the status quo narrative that you have been led to subscribe to. You are currently set on a path that was laid out for you.

You might want to break outside this narrative and look at alternative schools of thought before you commit the rest of your life to this dogma, even if just for fresh perspective.

Sanford's "Invisible Partners" is a good start.

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Originally Posted by CarlaWestin

My wife still strongly feels that I'm just a deplorable pervert

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Carla, how dare she think that?!?!? You are not remotely deplorable! :heehee:

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Originally Posted by Rogina B

I think many dressers can't explain their needs and that is what keeps them in the "weird" column. Fetishes are very hard to explain to the vanilla world. There are people here that get off on a bra under their male clothes or dressing as a teen,etc. I think it is this "weirdness" that causes some of the problems. I find that "fetishists" are often very selfish and only focused on themselves. This can make a spouse feel that "if discovered" she will be "seriously damaged goods" to the vanilla world around her.

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Thanks, Rogina!:thumbsup:
This supports my theory of why we have at least 6 "pantie threads" running constantly here!:brolleyes:

DADT is Don't Ask Don't Tell not sure what your question is? She doesn't want me to ask her if I can go get my wig styled or to tell her that that is what I did. If you prefer to call it something else that is your option it doesn't mean that applies to my situation.
No one here knows anyone else's situation well enough to really counsel them on how to conduct themselves. Doc would it be appropriate for anyone hear to advise you on how to relate to YOUR adult daughter living with you? I would think not.

Not true, Sara. It was, in fact, urging from those here that convinced me to tell her and stop my SHL dressing.:doh:

It was the best decision in my dressing life, by the way!:thumbsup:

Ultimately what I think we can all do best for each other is support each other, regardless of how we as individuals decide on how to live our lives. We can counsel, and sometimes should. Give advice based on our experiences and from others we may know.

How we choose to live and how someone else chooses to is still as right for them as our choices are for us.

It is only when I see someone so frustrated by limitations they have, or non accepting people in their lives, mostly partners do I ever suggest a really evaluation. Even then, someone who chooses to quit altogether or just be in deep hiding.... or someone chooses to do a full 180 on their lives, it's all good with me.

Doc, that just happened to work out for you and you must have been considering it for the subject to come up. Like the stock market "Previous successes do not assure future ones." If the advise here was throw her out she is an adult that would have worked too. It would have serious consequences but it would work. My point is only you know the situation intimately enough to make the choice. i am very happy for you that the advise worked out well but the next time we try to do that we may be wrong. I urge cautions when seeking online advise, heck even if it is just which TV to buy.

DADT feels asymmetrical, if we limit our consideration to our particular desire- but perhaps it is fair to say that for many of us our version of DADT is actually symmetrical, in that both partners are coming to an agreement that requires different things to be given up, but of roughly equal significance. I can tell myself that my wife's asking me to give her space to stick her head in the sand to feel better is not as difficult as me having to wear pants so she will have something more familiar emotionally to see when she looks at me, [when I don't want to- if I consider just my own desires], but after reading 25 posts here, I took another look.

So on behalf of the DADT crowd, I say we are doing what is normal in a committed relationship. Gender identity is not as superficial as political leanings, or hobby interests, but it is perhaps similar to tending to talk too much, or being afraid of the dark, or hating your parents- all of which can be disturbing to relationship, and which have to be moderated and managed somehow- albeit in an unsatisfying way.

It has been really helpful to me to be at peace with our agreement's details. It embodies and conveys respect, including for all that is unsaid and unknown. It conveys trust because at some point we have to believe our SOs when they say it is too hard for them to see us. It lowers tension, and is the basis for me then to be fully present when in drab, as I see it as a positive thing I am doing for my wife, like bringing her her favorite chocolate. And she has expressed appreciation for that, which could only happen when she doesn't feel any resentment from me. And that affirmation of DADT as something we agree on, without feelings of asymettrical power intruding, gives room for incremental expansion in my opportunities to dress- i.e. she sees me in a blouse leaving for a meeting, and I change out of it when I get home, and that is something that feels good to me. I wear a skirt and blouse in the mornings sometimes, and as she is engrossed in the paper, it seems to be becoming acceptable. I think it is because the pain level for her is low, and she is not making a case over something small. Of course...leaving crumbs on the counter- that is another story!

The point is we are not fighting, we are silently negotiating and showing respect and restraint. Does my desire feel unsatisfied- yes. Is hers unsatisfied? Yes. I think it is unavoidable in marriage, so DADT on crossdressing is similar to DADT over anything else that is one of the points of lifelong mismatch in just about every marriage. Like good negotiators, we have to concentrate on points of agreement and maximize our satisfactions there, while respecting the wide range of desires/needs that all have to coexist somehow in everyone's life.

In the 60s we were struggling with how to make free love work, and free food, etc. It wasn't really practical, so I have come to view the fulfillment of all our desires as an unreachable fantasy- and to be much happier with what I do get, rather than discount it!

On this Phili, minus the symmetry, I'm not getting that, but your last paragraph I am I'm a lot of agreement. My wife has asked me not to dress in her presence. As in please don't. Wasn't a demand. Her reasoning is it makes her feel uncomfortable. It was tried once. She has told me more than once, if she didn't accept me she would have left. I trust her on this. She makes many accommodations for me to dress. She has discomfort seeing me dressed as a female she can't shake. And that comfort she knows will make me feel rejected even though in actual reality it's not her rejecting me. I know some on here feel that it is. So she respects me giving me a lot of time and space, I respect her by not dressing in her presence. Not perfect, but neither is life in general. It is and has been a very workable compromise for both of us.

DADT/ SHL is not accepting that this is a perversion - it is accepting that your SO considers it that way and, due to your love of that person, you are willing to SHL to not force them to change their mind. We can hope that with time, with changes in society, and continued love that they will no longer see it as significant a perversion and be more accepting. My wife has and I am glad. She still has fears that wax and wane, so I take it slow.
Hugs, Ellen