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I also completely agree with Hope. The snowball effect in most cases though is less one of accumulation but more one of taking the skins off. I have always felt this way but only late found the strengthy to uncover my real self to the world. When I decided to move forward I knew exactly where I needed to go.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances
...and I agree with this as well. Probably the first lesson I learned when I started this process, after don't wear new heels to the mall, is the only thing you can depend on is how undependable your own feelings are going to be.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances
My transition is way ahead of schedule in regard to the "coming out" phase. I'm also considering staying in my current job. I am literally a different person now than I was in January and I never expected things to happen so fast. It's a TWO year plan dammit!
Anyhoo, I also want to add that Frances and I are FB friends now, and her little headshot pics are super duper cute.
Here's another amen to that! You will be off balance most of the time, Mackenzie, trying to distinguish reality from fantasy, fear from caution, expectation from self-delusion and hope from wishing. And once you have attained a modicum of confidence in your path, then come the diverse and unpredictable reactions from the people you tell, practical hurdles to overcome, and major snags that never occurred to you. And then you really get started.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hope
So, to lighten things up a little, who will be the one to tell Mackenzie the short answer to the question, "What's the difference between a crossdresser and a transsexual?"
:) Lallie
LOL! IBTLhahdahahahahaQuote:
Originally Posted by LALady
Thanks, Frances. That made me feel like a real insider. Or as we say, TMMFLARI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances
:) Lallie
I am currently considering the next physical stage of my transition: SRS. I am considering what I actually want and why I want it without reference to cost. It will probably be funded by the NHS anyway but, even if not, it is clearer to think independent of cost at this stage.
Requirements:
1. Removal of penis, scrotum and testicles: Definitely.
2. A clitoris with sensitivity: Definitely.
3. A clitoral hood: Definitely.
4. Labia: Definitely
5 A vagina: Hmmm? My problem!
Yes, I want a vulva that is cosmetically good but why do I need a vagina?
So that is where I am at.
The vagina presents the most difficult part of the SRS and also requires substantial post-surgical maintainance, manly dilation and cleansing. It is the feature with most post operative risks and required "patch ups". It is the most invasive part of the surgery and, if you are diabetic, it represents the possibility of severe healing problems.
What is a vagina for? In talks with natal women the more I learn is that they believe it is feature used for pleasure by men and most women obtain pleasure from elsewhere other than their vagina. Not all believe that, but a substantial majority of those I have spoken to do.
I am 63 and have been with my partner for 42+ years and married for 40 of them. She has no use for my having a vagina (and no use for my dysfunctional penis either). I can't see me wanting a male partner for anything other than curiosity.
So, given that I will be about 65 or more before SRS is performed, I face the prospect of spending my time of servicing a vagina in my late years for no reason whatsoever. Why do I need it?
Another point is one to do with SRS no matter how far you go. Who knows? Nobody, or very very few people know what you have in your groin and it will make no difference to the way you are treated.
I mentioned all this to my gender psychiatrist at the Charing Cross clininc in London. He was inclined to agree. He also added that:
1. A substantial number of people, although feeling happier and more "correct" with their neo-vulvas, were surprised that it made no difference to almost everybody.
2. There is a steady stream of post-ops returning to have their actual neo-vaginas removed because of the high maintenance involved and the problems encountered through not doing it.
Fortunately, I have a circle of girl friends, some of them trained counsellors, and a NHS psychotherapist always on hand to discuss this with. They are very helpful and concerned. Even so, the question "Do I want a vagina?" remains unanswered.
IBTLhahdahahahaha??????????Quote:
Originally Posted by LALady
In before the lock............Quote:
Originally Posted by Kathryn Martin
IGI. (I Googled it.)
:heehee: Lallie
It's a place for people to ask questions. Everyone has to start somewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Katesback
Think of this. Say a newbie comes in with a similar question, except this person is deeply troubled with gender issues and has been all her life, but has taught herself to present a devil-may-care attitude. Maybe she's young! She is just beginning to crack open Pandora's Box, and she may not know how she feels or what questions to ask. You or someone else brushes her off because her questions aren't to your liking, and she becomes so desperate for having been rejected by the only people whom she feels she can relate to, that she does something harsh to herself, since she doesn't know where else to ask questions. Or, she stuffs everything back down for a few more years.
The only requirement here is to answer a newbie's question civilly, to the best of your ability. And if you don't feel like doing this, then don't post.
No one is in a position to judge the person behind the words, ever.
Josie Rose that is a very interesting perspective you have and I think you have made some valid points. Nevertheless, SRS is in my near future. But you are right on as I too have been married to a very wonderful understanding woman for a long time and she too has no use for me to have a vagina. Since I have been or HRT for 2 years now, sex has been out of the question for a long time which is good for both my wife and myself. So asking what good is the neo-vagina if you are not going to use it. And as you stated, it will be high maintenance. So why do it? I am in the group that feel it will make me whole. We shall see if that is true afterwords. My wife's concern is that after i get that vagina, I will want to experiment with it and use it. Openly I deny that fear my wife has, but down deep, I know she is right. Why have a vagina if you are not going to use it???? I am sure there are inter-sexed women who have been identified as female at birth that do not have functioning vaginas so does that make them less of a woman.
That debate (what defines a woman and WHEN are we "real" women) goes on here a lot and is likened to which came first the chicken or the egg? There is no answer to the chicken question just as there is no determining single factor that defines us as women or not!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Josie Rose
Is this really true? I'm asking ...how do you define steady stream?
This puts a new perspective on the discussion in the now-closed thread, "Do Seniors Need Gender Correction Surgery?" which assumed that GCS meant only surgery including vaginoplasty. The idea that seniors were a special case was first raised by Katesback who remarked in yet another thread, "Hell what does a 68 year old need a vagina for anyways? " While this stirred up a lot of controversy in that thread, there is a point or partial point worth arguing for it.
At the time I contemplated it, as "Being a senior myself, this question has posed itself to me. I did know personally a (never married) MTF TS who received her surgery at the age of 70. I have heard she enjoys sex as a woman now, and very much so. There are cases of GCS being performed for people significantly older than that.
Facing transition in one's senior years can result in suicidal depression (just) as it can if you do not go through (with it when you are younger). A person living in a state of uneasy and disrespectful coexistence with relatives, if in a toxic relationship with them, might be better off not alienate them further . . . but then they are unlikely to be real happy with their family in any case." But need transition include vaginoplasty in order for you to be better accepted? Getting rid of those extra parts that clutter up your silhoueete and make keeping your legs together less comfortable, may be all that is needed to make the MTFTS feel more comfortable about being a woman.
I am in the process of being evaluated for GCS right now. Some unmarried women have their vagina close up naturally, so having a vulva and not a working vagina is not entirely unnatural. The alternative of getting surgery just for having a vulva, seems like an interesting way of avoiding much of the downside of GCS. Certainly, a lot of time will be spent after having vaginoplasty, simply cleansing via three baths a day, and dilating just as frequently, so the recovery time, before gettting back to normal life should be less without it. When you are approaching or have reached the age of 70, avoiding the pain and effort of a substantial recovery time certainly should be factored in, as your remaining years becomes more precious at that time of life.
Yeah really? in the past 5 years of hanging around the transgender community that is the first time I have heard such aQuote:
Originally Posted by Josie Rose
statement, Those that regret GRS/SRS usually regret gender transition, so I would like to know where this steady stream
of post-ops is. Show some facts to support your statements because I certainly won't ever believe the hearsay of others.
I can imagine, considering how doctors are reluctant to discuss their failures, that one might not hear of this except from a doctor who has inside information.
Certainly there has been at least one person on this board, complaining about side effects from vaginosplasty, in her case a fistula which proved resistant to remedial surgery, (if I can trust my memory.) Certainly this problem is well documented in the literature as a risk of vaginoplasty.
The fact that vaginoplasty is a high maintenance thing forever after, is something that has been discussed and the neo-vagina can even close up if dilation is not done conscientiously.
I've actually heard of this happening a few times in a few "scholarly" articles I've perused while in school. Usually these instances involve "non-compliance" of the treatment plan, or outright failure of the surgery though. Unfortunately for these women, it's not exactly simple to reverse. I haven't seen anything that would suggest it's a large number though, more or less, I'd label it as just one more risk among many of an often necessary surgery.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melody Moore
doctors are reluctant to disclose......the girls are NOT reluctant...go to srs or ffs forums and read the wailing from people unhappy with surgery... but its all about complications and lack of follow up...not ts regret
the simple fact is complications happen...none of us want or deserve them... some doctors are better than others too...
isn't it important to separate the idea that some people are unsatisfied because a bad thing happened (a complication), some are unsatisfied because of unrealistic expectations, and the rest of us are more than content?
It's ok to fear the surgery. It seems like a practical reality that as you age, you may wonder what's the point..i can't answer that except to share my own experience...
i know that in my darker days, i was very obsessed with doing something before its too late...
i was ambivalent about srs, but i am so happy i did it... the feeling of completeness is real... i didnt expect it, but its there... so perhaps if you are older you may take this into account...its not about sex for me at all..i could take it or leave it...(and i must i admit i have taken it, and it was good..did i say that?) but its not something that was so important that i wanted surgery..the surgery was completely about me...
if you are transsexual, you will benefit from successful srs..regardless of your age...perhaps your age reduces the chance of successful srs...i don't know about that
I notice Kaitlyn, you are in your forties according to your profile. I had in mind Seniors, which by my definition means those over 60-65, which I think is a fair cutoff, (no pun intended).Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele
All I am saying is that Seniors may be a special case, in which the balance of arguments pro and con are shifted a little further towards the con end of the scale than if you are younger.
Getting back to the theme, if a vulva is adequate for many Seniors, this would in turn imply that the operation is a bit more cosmetic rather than functional, for many Seniors, though cosmetic issues can be psychologically very, very important.
The premier clinic in Thailand will not accept patients 65 or over for SRS.
That is the way I see it as well. Doctors won't preform GRS/SRS unless you are prepared to accept theQuote:
Originally Posted by JodyCD
risk and undertake the necessary post-op treatment plans and I fully accept that regular dilation will be
a necessary part of my routine post surgery and as you say it is not simple to reverse, in fact you will never
restore what was there. So people want to be really sure about GRS/SRS and not go into it blindly without
considering the risks and what maintenance is required. Usually those that rush into GRS/SRS and don't
follow the WPATH SoC properly is often the same group that end up regretting their decisions.
Exactly right, and a perfect example of why it's important to understand what the procedure entails, and ask lots and lots and lots of questions of the surgeon, as well as your own independent research. It should go without saying that it's important to know it is required surgery for the individual undergoing it, and not just a want. Unfortunately not everyone takes the time to really figure that out, and cases like that can and do occur, as well as the occasional failure on the part of the surgeon. After all, even the most simplistic surgeries sometimes go wrong.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melody Moore
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele
Steady stream is just a phrase used by me and may have been an over flourish. I forget the actual words he used but he meant MORE than the odd one or two, but he did not quote any figures. The way he expressed it was something like "you would be surprised just how many return to have etc". Not my figures or my experience at all, just what I was told.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melody Moore
Don't shoot the messenger.
Anyway, even if only one or two return in dribs and drabs, the point HE makes (not me) is still valid; that some girls find the post op maintenance difficult to keep and finding no real use is made of their vaginas find it best to have it removed. This is the content of what he said but not his exact words.
I will ask him again when I see him in January.
I would maintain that we do not come anywhere near complete even with vaginoplasty. Where is the cervix? Where is the uterus? Where are the fallopian tubes and ovaries? Where is the "wo"(mb) in woman?Quote:
Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele
The vagina is ALL about sex, it is what it is there for; an entry point for the penis and receptacle to supply semen to the cervix. However, in the normal course of life is largely invisible and irrelevant.
I'm not saying this as a criticism of what you said, but all these factors come to my mind as I try to make a decision. The balance between the desire to have, the feasibility to have and the real meaning to have.
I even wonder if my thinking only the "full kit" will suffice is a remnant of my masculine feelings not to miss out on the whole deal.
Josie, this is why people need to be 200% sure they are fully aware of everything going in for GRS/SRS,Quote:
Originally Posted by Josie Rose
Dribs and Drabs of information simply don't cut it when it comes to being worthwhile information about
such an important surgical procedures. This type of surgery isn't without it's risks and that is why I have
decided on a surgeon who gives a lifetime guarantee on his work just in case there was any complications.
Once my GRS/SRS is done, there is no way I would ever entertain the idea of having it removed, I would
insist that they fix up whatever f*ck up there is so there wasn't any issues and it will work for me.
How does having a vaginoplasty make you better accepted? Again, not a criticism, but a thought that plays in my mind too. Nobody knows what is "in your pants" and plays no part at all in the daily acceptance by other people. They are simply unaware of it. Specifically, I am referring to the vagina, not the vulva, so there are no give away male bulges.Quote:
Originally Posted by Beth-Lock
I have to agree with you there Josie, we don't go around scrutinising each others genitalia like dogs do
and that is how I feel when I read comments that infer that GRS/SRS is vital to a certain person when
it comes to being a woman. As I have said previously, I fully intend to have GRS/SRS, but it only represents
about 10% of feeling complete as a woman. For me it is a vital component and the thought about not being
able to eventually get it causes me a lot of anxiety.