Why lie to your SO/wife?

I'm the cheerleader for cross-gender presentation. (i have the pom-poms and everything) I don't WANT to change gender, I just want to be who I am. I'm a big bull male with a girl inside. Despite Igor's advice, I totally support 'crossing the streams', which is again part of my point.

This isn't about 'her' or 'him', regardless of who your partner is. it is about YOU.

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BE GIRLY if that is who you are. Don't present in a way that is alien to how you feel. - Me

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Been there, done that, have the T-shirt.

Consideration for what? Safety? Convenience? Propriety?

Not snark. Honest questions. I'd be interested in your answers KM. I want to understand.

<3

- MM

Nothing is safe.

After being with someone for thirty years who was DADT and ended up leaving me in the end anyhow I knew it was time for a change. Being truthful with women has been a good thing. Some chose to be friends and oddly enough I met a wonderful person who loves me for me. If a woman doesn't want me for me then she really doesn't want me. Hey women want to be loved for who they are don't they?

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Originally Posted by Kimberley May

As I said before this isn't "a one size fits all" thing. Not every CD'er wants to change their genetic gender. I will only tell her if I find she will be understanding and accepting, otherwise I won't tell her and I'll give it up. Doing so isn't being in denial, it's just unselfish acceptance of a situation in consideration for her. As I said I've had no desire to change gender for real. I'm still very much quite emotionally attached to my meat and two veg, and women.

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Kimberley, I think you've described aspects of a lot of us here - particularly those of us still secret-squirrelled away from our wives or SOs.

Unlike the assertions of our more dogmatic and less sophisticated members, there are all sorts of reasons that people hide aspects of themselves before and during relationships. Like you, I have no desire to change from what I am today - I don't deny what I am, but I do have a sneaking suspicion this desire may burn itself out in the future, so why reveal something that - for me - may become a non-issue, just more history?
In addition, I know my wife (the situation is a little different with first time BF/GFs) - I know she sees eye-to-eye with a lot of less liberal policies and has some very nimbyist views of sexuality and gender issues. I have little doubt that she would neither understand nor seek to understand why I feel the way I do, and why should I put her through a massive, personal upheaval if there are only a few years (perhaps months! :eek:) of my desire to dress remaining...? Add to that the fact that she has a long-term disability that has the potential to make her seriously depressed and my greater consideration is for her psychological well-being rather than some fanciful ideal of being totally open. This ALWAYS depends on individual circumstances. Those who say it doesn't are just plain wrong and dogmatic. If you are somewhat less TG-lite than I am (ie. have a greater need to express - I admit I'm fortunate from that perspective) and you need to dress often, go out, go shopping, go to the theatre, restaurants, etc. and express your femme side more publicly for the affirmation that brings, then perhaps the pressures are more to reveal to an existing or potential SO.

But there are no absolutes here - my position reminds me of another great quote from 'House M.D." (whose writing really does capture some great observations of human nature):

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Dr. Taub: "If you open your mouth one of two things happen, she either forgives you or leaves you. At best, you end up exactly as you were before. Wanting to confess is noble. It really is. Confessing when you know it results in distress and pain for the other person isn't noble, it's selfish."

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MM: I know you have strong views on this - and this is one of those circumstances where I feel the differences in motivation of different segments of our community leads to a quite different perspective on behaviour. Right at the moment, I don't want to express this part of me all the time or even a lot of the time - even when that changes, I'm happy to just flip to the femme side for a few hours or half a day and then I'm equally happy to be back as 100% pure British Beef (:heehee: have to snicker at that..). Some of us need to have both aspects to flip-flop between and I think that is sometimes hard for everyone to understand: a need to express but never to be...

Both ways are valid... In fact ALL ways are valid if it suits your circumstances, values and ideals... :)

Katey x

@Heatherdress - post #21

Well said Heather. The last thing I would do is add on to the shame and guild most cd's feel at some point by condemning them for not coming out to their so. It is a very difficult thing to do and for some who do come out, it does contribute to a break up. I came out this year and it is a work in progress. It is sometimes difficult to balance my feminine desire with my desire for my wife and being the man she married and wants. But so far so good....for the most part.

Because it is complicated is a cliche but true in this instance.

When we meet our future spouse it is often at an age when you don't really understand the strength of your cross dressing desires. As we go through life we change a lot. As a teenager I thought that cross dressing was just a substitute for a heterosexual relationship. It seemed to wane and I mistakenly thought it was just a phase. I told my SO before we married but she didn't think it was more than wearing a few feminine undergarments and at that time I was not interested in dressing fully.

So when we talk of honesty we have to remember that we often did not understand the real strength of our desire to cross dress or how it might change and become more intense with time.

Given the internet and forums like this, I may have had a greater insight and the "I am a transvestite" conversation might have been more useful and perhaps I would never have married. So honesty is not just a black and white issue for some as they just don't truly know themselves.

Of course it is always better to come out and tell the truth but what is the truth. At 20 years it might be "I just like to wear silky knickers from time to time", while at 40 it might be "I really like to dress fully as a female". Just look at the examples of men who lived their lives as heterosexual partners for decades before finding that they had latent homosexual desires that just grew stronger until they could not be resisted.

Yes, honesty is always best but to be honest we have to have an honest understanding of what we are and what we shall become and that can be difficult for some.

Hi, I fall into the late category. I have always liked women's clothes and especially heels. The most I ever did as a child was try on my mothers heels and look at pictures of women's clothes in my mothers catalogues. I've always liked drag but as a spectator, it's something that others did and they look great, I'd never even been to a fancy dress party in any women's clothing, I'd never even thought about it. May be I'm slow at understanding myself but it wasn't until recently, last 6 years, that I had a ureka type moment and it dawned on me that there is no invisible barrier between me and the women's aisle.
Now I've been married for 17 years and teenage kids. I have always loved stilettos on women and my wife knows this. I thought I'd buy, no I had a very strong desire to buy some heels and told my wife I wanted a pair, may be not the greatest move just to come out with it so bluntly but apart from being a bit taken aback she let me trundle off to the shop and I came back with a pair of 4 inches heels, this further set her back as apparently she expected a lower heel, everything was fine for a day or 2 and then she came clean about how it made her feel and it wasn't good!! However we talked about it and since then she knows I have 1 or 2 pairs plus some knee high boots 1.5 inch heel that I bought while out shopping with her she did however state I wasn't allowed to wear them over jeans..... So no problem there. However at the time of my 1st heel purchase she did quiz me on was it just shoes or was it more and at the time for me it WAS just shoes. Now overtime it has blossomed into much more than just shoes as my avatar pic testifies to. I would love to tell her of my female self but not sure I can

Sorry for the ramble
Hugs
Abbey x

As a GG/SO some of the responses on this post makes me so very angry and some just make me SMH....
We were married for 20 years, knew each other for almost 28 years, before I found her stash.
I get "the shame and guilt and fear". I get "the need went away when I got serious, but then came back later". I get the "she's so conservative she'd never understand". I get that some of you feel like you still have to hide this from your wife/so. In a perfect world, no one would give a crap about what clothes we wear or how we looked. If you are already married, there are some difficult decisions to make. If you are not married yet and in a relationship that marriage is in the future, I would hope you would make the decision to tell. We have the right to know what we are getting into and being honest up front is the only way to make choice. Once married, you take our choice away from us.

BUT please don't act like you are doing your wife/so this huge favor by lying to them. That you are making their life better by lying. All I can think when I read some of these responses is "just another man trying to control things". If you feel like you have to continue to lie, fine - it is ultimately your choice and your life. Just don't act like you are doing this "huge favor" for them by hiding this side of you and don't act all surprised when they find out and the consequence that will follow. Note: Him lying to me was the ONLY reason I even thought about divorce when I found out. I could get over the dressing part, but trying to rebuild the trust I had in him has been extremely difficult. That and the bouts of "Pink Fog".

I have known my fiance for 42 years. We have had a on/off romance all those years. 3 years ago we reconnected for good. Anbout a year ago, I decided to come out to her and figured that if she didn't like it, she was free to move on. It's the last thing I wanted, but I had to be fair. What surprised her the most was that she never knew all those years of friendship. In the end, she was completely supportive and has become a real partner. Sometimes, I think she is more enrolled than I am! Anyhow I agree with Laurana: honesty is the best policy. You might be surprised like I was, or you can have a life without the stress of a secret life.

My wife has known since we got married however I had not fully understood all about myself at that time and didnt really know how much and how far I was going to go with this, so while she has known the fact that I became more involved in my dressing has prob been just as bad or worse for her. Im not saying tell them from the beginning even though I do think its best, just make sure you are certain you know what you want from the relationship and you know enough about yourself and what this part of you means before you open up to your wife.

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Originally Posted by TanyaR

We have the right to know what we are getting into and being honest up front is the only way to make choice. Once married, you take our choice away from us.

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quote of the day....when YOU make the decision, you are saying your SO can't, either directly or indirectly.

Now I know some of you are saying MY (as in my ...Lorileah's) situation is different she's a TS. She has to be out and about. But let's go back in time. I was married, and I kept my dressing "in the closet" with my wife for many of the same reasons you all do. My job, my reputation, wanting to appear macho with friends...yes almost every one you guys cite. One small difference, my wife was the one who pulled me out, mostly because I would wander to heels and other clothes when we were shopping and she knew I wanted them. Even with that I stayed in a DADT relationship of MY doing. I didn't want to embarrass her (which by the way was her ONLY rule for me dressing and going out). Now move forward a bit. The first love of my life was dying of cancer and I was stressed to the max so what you all call the "pink fog" was strong and kept it at bay. You know what she did? (now realize she KNEW I was at least a CD0...she told me on several occasions to "put on a skirt" or "put on some hose" Nice, huh? Why did she do that? Because she knew early about me. It wasn't a secret to her.

OK moving on, I had a girlfriend and the almost first thing I told her was about "Lori". I expected that to end the relationship...and yet the first thing she said was "Let's go out together." So I am incredibly lucky? Or I only date incredibly tolerant women? Or just now having that secret made my life better...You choose. Hey, it worked for me.

I have lost both of those incredible women...that led me to stop "protecting" them from me...not the way to do it but I am now able, without fear of what would happen to them if I did "come out, to transition. Once again, not the way I would recommend you do it. Honestly I don't know how my wife would have handled that because she didn't get the chance. My GF would have been right beside me now encouraging me on...but she didn't get the chance either. Not their decision...it was ME being selfish. YOU don't know what is right for your SO...you are guessing and you have a good chance you are wrong.

I don't lie to my wife about cross dressing, I just won't tell her... I can keep my 'stash' well hidden in a place I know she can't get too, nor find...

I know my wife will not accept the fact I cross dress... I have dropped hints, that she hasn't acknowledged and made implied comments, but, again these aren't seen...

As far as I can cross dress with my wife knowing is things like women's jeans and possibly some tops. I have joked that I'll keep the skirts purely to wear around the house, which has gleaned the comment that she draws the line at me wearing skirts and dresses...

It simply is not an option, remember, we all know our SO's and what they're thoughts surrounding cross dressing are. We, who are in the closet are the only ones who can make the judgement call if we can tell our SO's and still have a working relationship. Counselling is all very well, but, it is not for everyone, some people close down completely in counselling sessions and so middle ground can never be found.

I would rather be fully closeted than risk my marriage...

Lorileah - Sorry about your ordeals. You have had your share of pain. I also admire the two incredible women in your life, especially your wife who you lost to cancer. I am sorry.

CarolBrown,is your wife not entitled to know who she is married to? And it is not a working relationship if you are lying through your teeth to your wife every day.

Goodness me . . . can you say beat a dead horse, bring it back from the dead, beat it to death again . . . etc. etc. (Best Yul Brynner voice from the King and I) . . . so as not to be hypocritical I gladly admit to grabbing a stick and joining in the beat down :dh:

Folks you can wax poetic all you like about the nature of falsehoods, split hairs on what constitutes a lie, tell everyone what an awesome example of human kind you are because you told your SO but, in the end only one person has to live with their decision to tell/not tell their SO . . . . that is the person who chooses to tell or not tell and the ramifications which come from it. You know absolutely nothing about other people's lives here, what they go through, their relationship with their SO, the baggage they drag with them . . . so to imply they should be perfect like you and fess up seems a bit arrogant IMHO. I concede, there is nothing wrong with posting your own story about how you chose to come out to your SO and how well it went and encouraging others down a similar pathway with advice and personal experience. Heck you can shake your fist at the goddesses of the netherworlds and proclaim how wonderful it made you feel and what a positive thing it was . . . all good. However, once you meander down the pathway of insulting others by calling them liars (and yes the word was used here quite often) or implying by comments that people who don't tell their wives are just cowards or state that people don't tell because they are afraid to admit they are ashamed (again it was said by a member) . . . you crossed the holier than thou line IMHO. This would be akin to people who go out all the time telling folks they are just cowardly for not doing the same thing or, people who are out to the world saying "I did it, look it was easy, stop lying to yourself and accept who you are, stop being ashamed and tell the world" . . . we all know what a smack down this would bring from some of the same people who chose to insult others here.

Some folks here have a secret . . . they like to dress pretty now and then . . . shocker eh? :eek: However, once they finish, most put it away and go back to being a loving, caring partner, parent and decent all around human being. They are not hurting anyone and are doing this for a variety of reasons. Do they need to tell their SO? What is to be gained? So now the SO knows and goes into WTF land. It may go well (hands clapping, bells ringing and confetti falls ) or it may go extremely bad. Now we have what was once a great relationship destroyed because the person was shamed into telling. I know, I know some are going to say . . . " I object . . . it wasn't a great relationship because it was built on lies. Hmm, if the court pleases . . . was it a lie each time the accused was a loving caring spouse, partner, parent and all around good guy? Was he pretending to be a great person to hide his evil cross dressing ways? No, he had a secret thing he liked to do . . . dress like a woman on occasion. He never hurt anyone, he never ignored his obligations to his family, work or life in general . . . he just liked to wear pretty things. What is the evil he perpetrated? If you liked to go down in the basement when nobody was home and don a Pirate outfit and stomp about the house with a stuffed parrot on your shoulder "Yarr Matey !!!!" and it was your thing which makes you feel good, relaxes you but never wanted a soul to know, even your SO . . . should you tell her? I know someone is going to pipe up with "It's not the same thing!" :Angry3: Isn't it???? After all most here proclaim it is only about the clothes, feeling feminine for few moments out the day and then going on with their life. Pirate or woman . . . it is a fantasy persona. So why is that dressing like a woman is seen by some here as something so contentious that you have to tell your wife or you are lying? It's just clothes. The person is not out dating other folks, robbing banks, or a hundred other things bad people do . . . they are just dressing pretty for a few moments to quell an emotional need . . . end state.

Having said the above I do agree there are times where you need to come clean. The first instance is where dressing is becoming so consuming that you are ignoring you family and life to the point where your SO is becoming confused, upset. Or you are so far in the pink fog that you are spending like a drunken sailor (or Pirate :)) on shore leave to feed you obsession and your family is suffering monetarily. In these instances, people are clearly being hurt by your decisions and you have ceased dressing to relieve stress and are now acting irrationally to the detriment of your family. The other instance where I believe the person needs to come clean is when things progress to a point where the person is an emotional wreck if they cannot dress. This will bleed out into the relationship it other ways such as anger, resentment, depression. This was my personal experience in that it stopped being about the clothes and it is about being a trans woman. Oh, I didn't come out day one to my wife "Hey honey I am really a woman" it was two year long journey of self discovery but I did tell her immediately when I realized that I was becoming a miserable SOB due to my desires and not being able to express them. Again, she was being hurt by me emotionally because I was just plain mean. So yeah, you need to come clean if you are at that point.

I get it though, I am not going to change the dogmatic minds of some as you see things as only one of two ways (good/bad) with no room for points in between. That's your gig so enjoy it and feel free to express it. However, IMHO there is no need to shame others with your "I'm a good person and you are not" mantra. State your case, have your say but for goodness sake don't insult others in the process. Okay I relinquish the soap box . . . sharpen your knives and have at it. :)

Cheers

Marcelle

Thanks all, this (and a few other threads) are a good read!

There.. just wanted to start of with a positive (and hopefully end on one too) :)

I understand a lot of you somewhat better now, which is great as we don't have to agree but a certain level of understanding and respecting peoples views is something I try to always do.. so as beaten as the subject may be, please keep it coming :)

So I have learned a lot, but the one thing I do have trouble accepting is those knowing fully who they were at the time of partner selection and at that point willingly hide their femine side due to the reason it is otherwise hard to find a partner.. I doubt I will ever understand this.. for short term sex ok.. for relationships of short to mid term, I'll stretch my values a bit..ok.. but for mariage or any form of long term relationship, sorry no, I don't get it and doubt I ever will.

Generalising I do find reading this (and other threads) that a lot of you in a hidden relationship (for whatever reason) do not come over as happy about the situation.

Searching for a silver lining, I hope younger and/or single crossdressers find themselves perhaps advised to learn more about what it is they seek in crossdressing before getting married, and to end my post positive, lets hope times keep changing for more acceptance and information for current and future generations. It might never get out of the taboo corner, but especially when reading posts from the older generation(s) it is comforting to know the internet and places such as this corner help.

x Tara

I don't see your views as harsh, Laurana, but they are black & white, and as we can see from the International Space Station, this is a world of rather lovely pastels.

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Originally Posted by Laurana

I just don't get it. I see a lot of "My SO/Wife found out and she's pissed" threads and I keep thinking to myself "Well what did you expect?". Seriously. What do you expect when it comes to light that you've been lying/hiding something from someone who thought they could trust you? Did you expect her to jump for joy? Quite honestly, to expect anything less than a total meltdown is delusional.

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Read the above paragraph from the OP... How far off topic can so many people go?

It is specifically talking about what happens when the SO does find out, and I bet more of your SOs have an idea than most of you realize. It almost seems like many of you give your SO no credit for having a brain. They do notice things, and we all have little tells that we don't even realize. Many may ignore the first sign, or even the first few signs, as they don't want to think that something may be going on, but given enough signs, they begin to build a story in their heads, which may be far worse than reality.

Many of of you have said only you have to live with your lies, because nobody else knows. The OP is asking about those that do find out. And when the SO finds out, you have effectively, and without doubt, taken their choice away. All they know is that you have been lying to them for some period of time, and the assumption will be the complete length of the relationship.

Once this happens, with the exception of a very few lucky people, the relationship will be changed for the worse for the rest of time. If you truly believe a DADT relationship is a healthy relationship, I have a bridge I will make you a great deal on. There is nothing truly heathy about it. You are doing something your SO does not like, and wants nothing to do with, but for the sake of family, kids, etc, they are going to close their eyes and hope their nightmare goes away.

As as I have said before, this is not one size fits all. We all have different reasons for what we are doing here, whether it is the level 1 CD only looking for a quick thrill, all the way to the girls who have fully transitioned and living life they were meant to be.

If you are already in the relationship, you have made your bed, and get to deal with whatever happens if your SO finds out. But for those who are not in a relationship but looking for one, I think most agree that honesty is the best policy, and that it needs to be up front. I do understand there are a lot of excuses for not telling, but at the end of the day, when all hell has broken loose, they are just that, excuses. And very much like a certain body part, most people don't want to hear them.

i have lived both sides of the fence, from complete hiding to an open and accepting relationship. And my next relationship will be full disclosure and lots of discussion up front. There has never been a better time in history to have this discussion than now. As the OP says, the potential SO should have a choice, and only we can give them the information to make an informed choice.

Edit... I should add that there are a number of posts to this thread that I agree with. And many make good arguments for remaining in their current situation. But the question remains: What happens when Pandoras's Box gets opened.

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One small difference, my wife was the one who pulled me out, mostly because I would wander to heels and other clothes when we were shopping and she knew I wanted them.

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^this is the most frequent mistake made by those of you who are already out to your mates; you tend to have forgotten what it's like to be on the verge of potentially destroying the relationship. It's not a 'small difference'. It a HUGE DIFFERENCE. Having lived through the disastrous effects of coming out after already being married for some years, I remember well what it was like. Again, we lose sight of the most important thing: WE haven't changed. Only their perception of us has changed, and perhaps their biggest disappointment is in that they weren't smart enough to figure it out earlier. If they choose to believe that we're suddenly completely different people, there's nothing we can do to fix that.

Edit: About the 'hiding something we know she wouldn't like'. As I've mentioned before, there are all kinds of things that people hide from their mates, stuff they feel isn't that important. Two more things that people routinely hide, are shoplifting and cheating at gambling. Suppose you learned early how to do card tricks, and it became very easy for you to palm and hide cards. So for years you cheated casually in games with your friends, co-workers, neighbors, not enough to rip them off, but enough so that you always never lost. Or if you learned how to shoot pool expertly as a kid, and occasionally go out with your friends, lose the first game by a little, then up the odds and win the next few, but by just enough so it seems you're not a hustler? You take advantage of other people. That would disturb your wife. Same if you cheated at any other game or sport. Do you tell? How about if your wife steals a nail polish or such once in a while? Are you going to feel better if she admits that to you, just so that she feels better? Or will you be happy living with a thief?

Marcelle, well stated. I try at times to get others to see the world of crossdressing is not black or white. Some feel it is, but your points are well taken and understood by me. I think everyone on the forum should consider what you have said with an open mind, yes, ever the gg's, especially the ones who feel betrayed or lied to.

Just a what if: What if a husband wanted to feel pretty, say two times a year and the wife finds out. She blows a head gasket...you lied to me. He says, I only was thinking of you. That did not fly with her. She wants out of the marriage. He has a job that provides well for them both, along with the kids. He has no faults, like running around on her. Now the marriage is over, lives ruined, maybe mental breakdowns. Who has done the bigger wrong or wants control of the life of an so ?

Just another what if: Same family as above. Same thing happens and the wife finds his small stash. She goes ballistic, but agrees to stay in the marriage, but she comes on the forum and berates the husband to no end. She makes the life of the husband not worth living, the kids suffer. He wanted to protect her and the family from the outcome of her knowing. He knew she would respond this way. Now which one has done the greater damage to the marriage and continues to do so, by running the husband down to the family, friends and forum members.

Like you Marcelle, my skin is thick, so I am waiting for the knives to come out.

wow , you show how you really care about others who don't feel the same way you do.
I believe world war two had the same feelings toward others.
So many like you out there. Thank god the world is learning to accept others.
Live your life. Stop trying to live others who have problems you are not qualified to understand.

For those who suggest non-disclosure or remaining in-the-closet is lying or living a lie:

- We hide fears
- We hide shortcomings and inadequacies
- We hide failings
- We hide minor and sometimes major medical issues and concerns
- We hide true feelings about in-laws
- We hide work problems and issues
- We hide financial worries
- We hide fears of growing older
- We hide fantasies
- We hide innocent attractions we might have about other women
- We hide true feelings about family, neighbors and friends
- We hide when we are hurt
- We hide doubts and at times, loss of faith in others
- We hide disappointments with our children
- We hide that we are not enthusiastic, or joyful or happy at times
- We hide that we drive by homeless people on street corners content that we donate elsewhere
- We hide that we smoke, and drink, and overeat, and cheat on our golf scores, and ignore reporting gifts on our taxes, and masturbate, and crossdress
- We hide a lot of stuff that maybe we should not

We are human, we are far from perfect, and most of us try to live our lives as best we can. But we don't have to feel we live a lie because we are weak, and have fears, and want to keep a personal, intimate behavior private.

You hide health issues from your spouse? OMG. Very few parents are disappointed in their children. You hide your golf score...man that right there is reason for divorce.

Honestly the majority of your list effects YOU not your SO. And some what you say you hide that effect syour SO are just as bad as hiding your crossdresing. OH yeah, we don't reveal everything to our spouses. We don't reveal all our past to our spouses. That is understandable HOWEVER, and [put yourself in the other side of this too, things that DO effect your spouse should be part of their life...But you know what? Lying to your wife will get you that freedom you want. You over drink and hide it? You're gone from my life. You over eat and hide it? I will try and help you stop but you have to let me have that chance. Your SO cannot support you if you aren't open. Consider something you don't like or understand that your SO may do...let's choose drinking for fun. Wouldn't you like to know before they die in a accident? Go to Jail? Die of liver failure? Now I am in no way comparing being TG with compulsive self destructive disorders, but there are things, especially when you "know" your wife won't like that you have to suck it up and quit or accept the fact that when (yes WHEN) they find out, you are going to catch wrath, hate, fear, anger and loneliness like you never felt before. I have been on here 7 years. One of the first arguments when I joined was this argument. I was accused of being a liar by association because I was TG. Now I am not a saint, trust me, I have done things I wish I could take back in my marriage. No marriage is perfect. But when you lose TRUST, you lose the whole marriage. I used to compare it to the foundation of a house. When you meet, you have a plot of land. You start with a foundation, you build on that. Children, finances, love. But one secret from your spouse, like crossdressing, weakens that foundation.

Trust takes years to build and seconds to lose. And when you lose it you have to start from square one....and rebuild for years again. It will never be as strong though. I pray none of you lose that trust. I have been in the situation where I lost trust in someone. 5 years later I am getting over it but it will be there forever. You will NEVER feel a pain in your heart worse than that.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

^this is the most frequent mistake made by those of you who are already out to your mates; you tend to have forgotten what it's like to be on the verge of potentially destroying the relationship. It's not a 'small difference'.

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thanks for taking that TOTALLY out of context Miss. Let me rephrase since you must not understand what I said. I thought she didn't know. I wasn't dressing behind her back. SHE saw that I was looking at women's clothing and SHE is the one who brought me out. Could it have destroyed MY relationship? Probably not because she was an incredible woman. But at that point neither one of us knew what would happen. Had she not been perceptive who knows? 5 years later when she walked in on me in heels and a teddy....?

The "small difference" was SHE was the one who initiated the conversation.


I don't understand how you all here think dressing isn't a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal YOU WOULD NOT HIDE IT...NO? So if it's a big deal to you, it's a big deal to her.

seven years. seven years of this same argument. seven years of seeing X number of people come here and bemoan how their SO found out, how she threw them out, how they don't get why she would do that because after it it didn't effect her. How now they either have to give up dressing or live their lives alone. Seven years of seeing people post here that if you have the chance, telling EARLIER rather than later hurts a lot less in the long run. How many women will work a compromise if they get the chance to be involved. Do you all not read what the GGs have posted? The dressing isn't the issue...it's the loss of trust.

OK I give up. Next week there will be a thread about some poor soul who got caught.

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

How about if your wife steals a nail polish or such once in a while? Are you going to feel better if she admits that to you, just so that she feels better? Or will you be happy living with a thief?

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Lexi, I think I understand what you're trying to say but it's an awefull wrong example.. if my SO would be a clepto I'd get her checked in for help.. if it was not compulsive I'd end things stealing is a big no-no for me. I do however have difficulties taking this example and comparing it to dressing up, as I believe that's not some decease that needs curing like cleptomania.

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Originally Posted by heatherdress

- We hide fears... ....want to keep a personal, intimate behavior private.

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Sorry but that just made me think of "but officer, the car infront of me also drove through the red light".

Other then that, is the majority of that list really so hard to share with your partner that you have to hide it on purpous?
I mean, that for me essentially is living a lie.. lets pick any one on that list..

- We hide fears
Honey, I know spiders are tiny, but 8 legs just freak me out

- We hide shortcomings and inadequacies
Honey, I know I forget things, if it's important can you send me a reminder?

- We hide failings
Honey, I so screwed things up at work today, I need an hour or two and a beer to think things over on my own, tell you about it later,ok?

- We hide minor and sometimes major medical issues and concerns
Seriously? I'm not even going to give an example here.. not telling stuff like this is just beyond my imagination

- We hide true feelings about in-laws
Honey, you won't like it but I have to say this once: Your dad is a drunk and your mom is manipulative. I won't ever tell them, but I need you to know how I feel.

and so on and so on.. I don't see your point

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

I don't understand how you all here think dressing isn't a big deal. If it wasn't a big deal YOU WOULD NOT HIDE IT...NO? So if it's a big deal to you, it's a big deal to her.

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You know what the worst lies are? The selfish lies of self-justification. I came out to my immediate family (Father, Mother, Sister) back in 93. You know what they said hurt them the most? My lack of trust in their love for me and that I'd judged them as being more judgemental and less full of love than they were. Even after coming out, I kept on doing some measure of the hiding behavior when I didn't need to, it had become a habit that I needed time to get over.

What you're seeing here is partly the dichotomy between what I call the "social" and "non-social" branches of the CD community. "Social crossdressers" feel too much commonality/feel some identification with women to keep this sort of behavior up long. But non-social strongly male identified older CD's stuck in that "Husband/Father knows best and what the little wifey doesn't know won't hurt her" mindset...they'll say or do anything to get their way. They've always had their way before, they're men, they're in charge. YES, not only am I using the "lie" word but I'm also using the "chauvinist" word. They're even not going to listen to the few SO's/Wives who post in these threads....after all "The man is in charge." The Lie of omission is easier, they get to have their way without doing anything.

It's what leads to DADT issues later on when the wives DO find out. Yes that's right, I'm calling you all out on DADT too. It's non-workable in the long term. Yeah not having a conversation between adults about "this thing of ours" is easier, right? You get to have your way without doing anything. But what happens when the little wifey retires....then what do we see. "Waaah my wife is going to retire and I'm not going to be able to dress anymore." Well if you'd HAD the conversation, you'd be dealing with it like adults and you'd still be able to dress because you'd have discussed the logistical issues of her not-seeing-it when you're both retired and actually negotiated the issues. Do you all want to end up like you-know-who, who recently quit these boards?

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seven years. seven years of this same argument. seven years of seeing X number of people come here and bemoan how their SO found out, how she threw them out, how they don't get why she would do that because after it it didn't effect her. How now they either have to give up dressing or live their lives alone. Seven years of seeing people post here that if you have the chance, telling EARLIER rather than later hurts a lot less in the long run. How many women will work a compromise if they get the chance to be involved. Do you all not read what the GGs have posted? The dressing isn't the issue...it's the loss of trust.

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Seven years, that's all? I've been seing this argument online since 1999. Yes, to all the "not-telling" crowd, I've been seeing the same selfish self-justification for 17 years. And no matter what some of us say about how telling earlier rather than later is better, you STILL don't listen. The lack of information in the past is no excuse. If memory serves me well, I remember a CD's SO discussing THIS VERY ISSUE on Phil Donahue or Oprah in the mid to late 80's. There were even BOOKS discussing THIS VERY ISSUE in the mid 80's (Peggy Rudds books) You just weren't paying attention to the changes in society that were already happening.

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OK I give up. Next week there will be a thread about some poor soul who got caught.

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There's at least one very selfish, self-absorbed CD on this very board, who got caught who STILL says that she'd rather her wife didn't know at all and that she'd have rather not got caught and has openly encouraged not telling. No, really. Of course, it was her own risk-taking behavior that led her to being caught because she obviously subconsciously wanted to be caught. This is why my signature line says: "Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does. "

Now somebody is going to come along and say what I think doesn't matter because I'm not CD identified. Well for many years in the past I WAS CD identified and quite frankly, I know "This Thing of Ours of Varying Kinds" VERY VERY WELL. In other words. I know what I'm talking about, I've been talking about this issue before this site even existed. NOTHING here is new, I've seen it all before.

And for all you young folks, you don't have any excuse to not-tell at all. Not with all the information out there that tells you that not-telling is not a workable long term solution. So get your shit together and you wont' end up like the older crowd.

Veronica

I'm skipping over a lot of great replies. I just wanted to address an issue that was brought up.

To me, I'm kind of wrecked up about the arguments over the idea that just because we used to be someone different means that provides cover for who we are now.

We all change. Life is change. The Wheel turns.

Changing is not an excuse for dishonestly. Change all you want, life happens. Don't believe for a moment that is an excuse for lying to the person you swore oaths to in front of an audience of your family.

Be up front and honest about changes in you, or else your partner -can't help you-. They can't protect anyone from a threat you have not identified. Yes, your changes are (or could be) a threat. TRUST your partner to have your back. If you can't trust that, then who did you make that promise to?

Trust, trust, trust

Don't lie, don't ever lie. It always ends up badly (I know, trust me)

They might not LIKE what you have to say, but if they love you, they will respect it.

- MM