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Hi Paula.
Well done you.The hard parts over,now mending begins.2 years ago we were where you are now.It`s been bloody hard the whole way.1 step forward 2 back.But we are getting there.Don`t give up,sometimes you think that would be so much easier.
We are worth fighting for,give it your all.
So my therapist called me on a couple of things - so I'm being more open with my wife about my feelings. Specifically I told her how bad I felt over the weekend.
We've had several talks this week - pretty serious talks, mostly about where we're headed. My wife is completely convinced I'll transition. I have to admit this seems more likely to me now too. She doesn't see us having a future as a married couple, at least not as an intimate couple. She doesn't see us living together in 2-3 years tops, and maybe as soon as one year. She is interested in remodelling one of our spare bedrooms (we have two) so that when she can no longer sleep in the same room as me, I have a place to be. Maybe we stay married technically for a while - but in reality we wouldn't function as a couple. Possibly housemates - if she can tolerate that. (That is by no means certain.)
Our sex life may well be over already. The changes I'm going through, minor though they are, are too much for her so far. She's trying to get used to them, but so far, she can't. And she can't stop thinking about her grief - "is this the last time we'll ever make love?" This is not a good line of thought if you are trying to be sexy.
From my end, my libido is basically at zero anyway. I don't know if this is because of all the emotional stuff we're going through (seems possible), or because of antidepressants (I don't get very much out of having sex anyway), or some of both.
Maybe this will improve - we are both trying.
She's concerned I'm changing too fast, and she has a point. (I'm thinking about electrolysis for my face, and voice coaching. Both take a long time, and aren't very visible changes - I have been clean shaven for 23 years...) She's worried this is some kind of a checklist, and I guess she has a point. Both things bug me though. I'd also like to laser off my body hair, although I wanted to put that off for a while, mostly because it is very visible, she hates it, and it's permanent.
I told her that I knew this was hell for her, and that she was really doing exceedingly well, and that no matter what happened to us as a couple, I assured her that the things in her life that I could keep the same for her, I would. (The house, as much of her life in our town as possible.)
She doesn't believe there's a happy ending for us as a couple, not anymore. Just an ending - and way sooner than she wanted.
I'm going to come out to one of my best friends soon, sometime in the next couple of weeks. (He's out of town, and I want to go to him in person, not do this by phone.) I'll report on that when it happens. No clue how it will go.
Paula, I can't help but think that your wife is really incredible to even think you can stay in the house after transition. She never signed up for that. You really have to think of this as a best case scenario and nothing to dread.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
I hope that you can both find some peace with the whole situation.
She won't make it that long. Transition takes a really long time. She'll put up with me as long as she can - I've helped her a lot over 20 years. We have an entire house that we don't use now that she "had to have to be happy", as an example.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
And I signed up for this? Are you suggesting that I'm the "bad guy" in this? I signed on for "until death do us part." However, how she feels is how she feels, and I don't blame her. I understand her reaction and I predicted it, if you will recall.Quote:
Originally Posted by Jenniferathome
BTW, I think this is the best case scenario:
If my post about my conversation came across as "dread", please allow me to disabuse you of that notion. I dread the idea of killing myself. I dread the idea of losing my mind. (My therapist thinks the latter is unlikely.) I'm saddened that my marriage is, with a very high order of probability, unwinding. We are working together constructively to make sure my wife is prepared.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laura Jane Grace
I don't believe our marriage would survive even cross dressing to the extent that many on this forum practice. Anything else I do to feminize my body will just make things exponentially worse. It is probably already too late for the marriage to survive anyway, unless I can just give this up altogether, which seems unlikely.
I do think, given her sexual preferences and upbringing, that she's handling this very well - actually better than I'd anticipated. She'd actually be pretty OK with this if this was one of my friends - just not her husband. I get that.
I get the impression that you think I'm just terribly selfish in all of this. I'm sorry you feel that way.
I am not at all sure, depending on what happens with me, that staying together is the best case scenario, at least for me - there would be sacrifices on my part. We do NOT live in an area where it is particularly easy or safe to be transgendered.
BTW, I'm going out of town tomorrow to visit my best friend. I'm going to come out to him. I'll post about how it goes.
I came out to my oldest and best friend today. It went great. He had lots of questions (do I like men, how'd I discover I was TG at 50, how's my wive feel, all sorts of stuff), but he said he supported me and would remain my friend. We talked a lot about what I'm going through, my depression and anxiety, all sorts of stuff. He told me that I'd always stuck with him, and so he was here for me. I felt really good about this. He told me some personal stuff about himself that he'd never shared with anyone. (Nothing trans / sex related.) He could empathize with my misery, if not the cause. He felt like he'd stepped through the looking glass, or that any minute he'd wake up from a *really weird* dream. He made a few jokes (that's his way), but was curious about how I looked as a female. I'll have to take a photo and show him. (I'm overdue to post one for my forum avatar anyway.)
He also told me, at the end of the conversation (this took about 2 1/2 hours), that he understood now, why I started out my talk with "I'm still sober, I have been for 23 years, keep this in mind, because everything else I am going to tell you is really weird."In the end though, he embraced me and told me that we were still friends, and that he hoped I could do whatever I needed to do to be happy, whatever that turns out to be.
My wife and I talked about this, and she was happy for me. But I still feel badly, because at the end of the conversation, she was upset, and needed to go lay down. I could hear her screams and sobbing from downstairs, so I feel absolutely horrible about what she's going through. I don't know what I can do that make this not be painful for her, without trying to shove all this stuff down again, and live with it longer. I don't think I can do that - I think it'll kill me. (Or rather I'll kill myself if I try.)
Try not to be too hard on yourself or your wife. What people want and foresee for themselves and their SO at the age of 20, usually isn't the same thing as what they want at 40 or 50. Many couples end up separating, not because either of them is evil or bad or to blame, but because their lives take separate paths. The idea that two people have to stay togather no matter what can be completely unrealistic in many situations. Indeed, staying togather when it's time to go can cause a relationship to become toxic and destructive to both parties.Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
The degree to which a spouse will stay in a marriage with a TG depends really on the nature and extent of the transgendered behavior---occasionally wearing panties is different from getting fully dressed and made up once a week which is different than dressing daily, which is different than undergoing the "transition" with body altering hormones and surgery. From your description, you seem to be the latter type of individual, a true transexual. While there are some instances of spouses staying togather after the husband's transition (Jennifer Boylan in Maine is a good example) it is more common for the spouses to eventually separate--hopefully on good terms and with love and acceptance for each other's choice. I hope you and your wife acheive serenity in whatever road you take.
I'm glad to hear it will well telling your friend. :)
Glad your best friend took it in his stride - good to know you have that support close at hand.
You know Paula, I've been reading and somewhat following your post but I must say I'm rather confused. Please forgive me for being harsh and blunt but I think that people are too self centered these day. They think only about how things will affect them, how things make them feel, how others will perceive them and so on. The things your wife say and do fall into this category. From what I see by your posts that you are trying to please yourself and your wife. Maybe I have it wrong here but the the behavior you've explained seems like she's been disillusioned about your relationship together, meaning that perhaps her idea of marriage was an illusion to begin with. People are so f***ing gullible these days to believe in the "happily ever after" and yet they do so much believe that they don't know how to own their own feelings, to know how to resolve conflicts, to know that the trials and tribulation are what the things that make a relationship better. Without them how do you compare the good time from the bad.
Ask your therapist, better yet bring your wife to a session.
I feel what I'm saying here will be unpopular, and that people will disagree, but I have knack for being objective and dispassionate, but support and insightful. You and your wife need to look at this situation in the same way.Open your mind to the possibilities. Maybe that's why she's so distraught, the only possibilities she sees are bad. Show her the good. Show her the happily ever after is possible just different.
So I had a therapy session today, and told my therapist that I'm feeling MUCH more positive and much less anxious about transitioning. (An ironic effect of the antianxiety medicines I'm taking - I'd hoped for the opposite, that I'd realize that these thoughts and feelings were symptoms of some other mental illness.)
My wife asked me what my therapist and I talked about - if my therapist had any opinions about me "going too fast." I dissembled and didn't do a very effective job of deflecting the question, and my wife called me on it.
So I told her the truth: That I feel a lot better, I'm not having suicidal thoughts, but I'm also a LOT more positive about transition. I don't like being a guy. I want to be a woman. I don't know exactly what form that will take - but I know what direction I must travel, anyway. This was no particular surprise to her - she's always felt that I was kidding myself about trying to find some middle-path.
I hated telling her all this, even though she already knew it. I feel like I'm made out of razor blades, and everytime I approach her, I cut her to ribbons. It's just awful.
We'll see where this goes - although one place it isn't going is to bed. Our intimate times together are probably over for good. She just can't feel that way about me anymore. Maybe that will change - I asked her to talk to her therapist, and to see if it would help for us to meet with a counselor as a couple.
She saw a silohoutte of me dressed today. She peeked in on me in my office. She didn't see much, and she didn't want to see more, but she didn't break down in tears either. So maybe she'll be able to tolerate seeing me dressed at some point.
It'll be a while before I'm ready to go 24/7. At that point, if she can't handle it, I'll have to move I guess. (Maybe before then.) Sure, it'd be nice to not wear male clothes around the house, but I'll put that off for as long as possible, and present as male for her for as long as I can stand it. I'm thinking it'll be quite some time before I can't stand it - months and months. I don't really see it as being even really necessary until I've been on HRT for quite some time, and it'll be a while before I am able to start that.
I told her that I'd be happy to tell the kids whenever she's ready to deal with that. She wants to wait a few months, until after our oldest son's wedding. So that means I won't come out to others in my family, or my close friends, for a while. That is kind of a drag - I'm ready to tell my family.
If nothing else, Paula, you are being honest with her, and yourself.
At least you are still talking, and she knows how your feel about her.
Waiting to tell others must suck, I can see why you need to though.
it may be uncomfortable and not what you want but sometimes being held back a some can be a good thing. You can use the time constructively making your plans and to be sure it is what you want to do.
I understand why she wants you to wait till after the wedding. But at least she asked to you wait and not to keep quiet entirely. She probably wants to make sure your sons wedding still revolves around him and doesnt want a bunch of gossip surrounding his wedding bliss.
I am glad to hear that the suicidal thoughts have gone. We are all here for you. :)
@arbon - yes, it's not such a problem waiting to tell them. I have a LOT of stuff to figure out, and there are a ton of things I can do to prepare in the meantime.
@Greenie - thanks , yes I'm feeling just heaps better, for the first time in months.
I know this is the right path for me now, I'm certain of this. It is sad that my wife and I won't make it, but that is typical in this situation. I think we'll be good to each other as the marriage unwinds.
My wife and I are seriously talking about how we ultimately unwind our marriage. I want (as does she) for her to prepare for an independent life without me, restarting her career. This will probably take a couple of years to fully realize, but that's OK, my changes will be slow. I don't WANT her to live without me - but being realistic, as I transition, it's very possible we'll reach a point where she simply can no longer tolerate being with me. If and when that happens, I want her to be able to support herself. I intend to continue helping her - but look - something could happen to me, the suicide rate for transgender folks is high. I plan to stick around, but it's best to plan for the worst.
If our marriage survives in some form, and she decides she really doesn't want to work anymore, it's way easier to quit than it is to launch a career after some personal crisis between the two of us.
We talked with a financial advisor, and there are complications with launching her career again. It would actually be more financially advantageous to us to legally divorce NOW, even if we stayed together. We talked about this - but she doesn't want to divorce now, she wants to stay together as long as we can. (I tried to point out ways we could protect her, so that when she could no longer deal with me, she wouldn't have to go through a big legal mess at the same time.) She didn't want it, and I am glad.
This gives me some hope.
Anyway, we aren't getting divorced anytime soon. We'll find some other way to solve the problem and get her back to work. She has a really good opportunity right now, and she'd be a fool not to take it. There is just no telling how long we'll make it together. I want her to be prepared, even though I desperately do NOT want this to happen, I love her enough to want her to protect herself.
I talked to my friend who I came out to last weekend tonight. I had sent him my picture, and he thought I looked OK. He's offered to go to a movie or something like that with me sometime. We talked about a bunch of stuff tonight, his stuff, my stuff. He asked lots more questions about what I'm going through. It was a good conversation.
PaulaQ, you absolutely did the right thing to tell her. Now the chains are off and you now have the freedom to continue to have further honest and open discussions. Don't pressure her and give her the time she needs to digest this. Take it slowly and respect any boundries that you both discuss and agree to abide by. Time will yield the answers you both are looking for. Good luck to you both, and please use this forum should you need to bounce anything off of us. You and your wife have a good support team within this forum.
Di
PS - The above was in response to the start of your first thread. I now see that you have had subsequent posts. In any event, I wish you both well.
All good to hear, Paula: that you are talking, and not shying away from dealing with things (either of you)
You have a lovely avatar picture, too :battingeyelashes:
I must say Paula you have moved very fast it only seems like it was yesterday you were planing to break the news to your wife. My wife and I sincerely hope you both emerge from this happily and you both find some joy. Good luck to both of you. You look great by the way. Take care
PQ:
Nice photo; could be even better with a smile...
Thanks flatlander, yeah, I'll improve on self-portraiture! I took those at 2am, after a long night out. I was just too tired to be at my best. I'll do more.
@Andrea - it has been a crazy ride. I know the odds for me and my wife are bad, really bad. I keep hoping against hope we'll find a way to stay together and both be happy. If that simply can't be, we'll take care of one another as best we can, and be friends.
Update for today:
My wife has decided to be strong. We are out of town, at our niece's wedding. We stopped at an outlet mall, and did some shopping. She helped me buy some earrings, and I bought her a necklace. We shipped at coach for some purses, and she got a really pretty yellow bag, and I got a fuchsia one. We had fun, I think. She talked about shopping for Paula, which was the first time she's used my name. She is trying!
She's strong - really strong. She decided to quit feeling sorry for herself and live.
She told me tonight that she told her mom about me. It went OK, her mom still loves me. I told her it was OK. I'm not freaked out. Everyone will need to know eventually, and I'm not ashamed anymore. I'm sick of hiding, too.
I'm ready to be out.
Paula, you are so courageous to have undergone such a fluctuating way of coming out to your wife in so short a period. I'll always support you for transition and also send my deep sympathy to your wife, too. I wish you would be always positive and active in your long way to transition.
Sorry for my prior optimism. We're done. It'll take a while to unwind everything, but my wife unloaded on my yesterday for having the audacity to hope we could somehow have a tiny chance of making it as a couple.
We will get divorced when it's the least painful for her / least economically disadvantageous.
We'll have sex because she feels bad about wanting to have an affair.
We'll separate when I start dressing fulltime, or do something else (god knows, it could be anything) she can't handle. I have zero control over my body, between her, my therapist, and my doctors, I can't change a thing right now. I can depilate, and buy clothes, and talk about stuff. Not that she'll be bothered to learn anything to have any idea whatsoever what I'm talking about. The idea of piercing my ears freaks her out. The idea of voice coaching, or electrolysis (both of which are essentially invisible from her perspective) freaks her out. I can't DO anything.
In the meantime, she manages who I can talk to, and when. She told her mom over the weekend about me. We didn't discuss this first. She told me about it afterwards. If it had gone badly, she wouldn't have told me at all. (So much for honesty.) I did get a chance to talk to her mom about what's going on, and assured her that I'd take care of her daughter, and get her to be self-supporting. I held out a tiny-sliver of hope we'd make it - but I said I didn't think it was very likely, not in the long run. This pissed off my wife just something fierce. If we don't make it now, somehow that's her fault, because I've told people that I'm willing to try. She made if VERY clear that we have no chance in the long run. We may stay married - but if so, it'll be for financial reasons for her. (It's actually advantageous financially for us to divorce now.) She wants a full report on everything I've said to my therapist. She's going to stop going to hers.
She's trying - but I think she wants me to fell better about myself so she feels better about herself. This doesn't feel like it's about me a lot. It's about her. Her marriage is ending. It's horrible. (Hello - mine is too!)
I told her I'd like to talk to my mother. She's worried about that and thinks it's a bad idea!
I'm sorry, this is all about her.
So, I'll slow down my transition as much as possible until after our son gets married. I'll work on fixing our financial stuff, and dealing with other crap so that she can get her career going again. (I can assure you, I'll do all the heavy lifting on this.) I'll figure out where in the HELL I'm going to go - I am obviously not going to be able to stay here while I transition. I think I'll put off getting my knee fixed - we've talked about this - but I don't think I want her help anymore. I don't think I want her help with anything anymore.
I guess I'll have sex with her when she wants it / needs it. I don't even care about it anymore - there is no future in this relationship. I'll keep it together for the sake of our kids for a few months. I'll make a plan and figure out some where to go. Transitioning here will be impossible. Between her, and the locals, there's just no way this works.
Hopefully that's not too much for her to deal with.
After smoking for about 21 years, I quit in 1988. This was back in the days when you could smoke in the workplace. I kept a bag of cashews and a bag of butterscotch candies in my desk at work and did the same at home. As 2 things that I REALLY liked, they were my substitutes. As quitting is a fairly long process, I had a lot of time to think about what was going on.
What prompted this was that my kids had seen this film at school about the dangers of smoking. They showed these images of autopsied lungs of people who had smoked and died of a smoking related illness. Anyway, it freaked them out and they just KNEW I was going to die.
So, originally I decided to quit for them. Not a bad reason, but that was my original perspective. However, as the process moved along, what I realized is that the only way for things to work in the long run is that I had to quit for ME and not for THEM. When you do something like this at the behest of someone else, if it fails it isn't your fault. It is theirs. Likewise, if it works, it isn't because you did it, it's because they told you to do it. In one sense, it can take away responsibility for one's actions. On the other, we don't get to enjoy our successes.
How this ties in:
If you're doing something in response, make sure you are doing it because you have internalized it and believe it is the correct thing to do at the time. It's never good to be coerced into doing something. It only serves to make us resentful.
Oh there'll be puh-lenty of time for resentment later on both sides. For my part, as I give her the house that has equity, and take on the one that she made me buy, that we all ultimately hated, and deal with the dead-beat renters, and as I sell off all my astronomy equipment for pennies on the dollar, and live kinda broke for a long time, while I send her money. I'm fairly sure I'll resent this. I'm not sure yet if I'll resent being alone and having no sex life for the rest of my days. Jury's out on those two. Assuming I survive all this. Who knows? I am not counting on lots o' support. I will be unsurprised if I lose my family, almost entirely. (Kids, mom, sister, etc.) I'll probably resent that stuff. I'll almost certainly resent dealing with all her emotional issues over the years - some of them were pretty bad, but lacking support from her when I need it most.Quote:
Originally Posted by flatlander_48
On her part, she'll resent me doing this, and leaving her alone. Then later resent me because the guy she eventually marries may have more money than me, but he's kind of a dick. She may resent having to have a job again. She hasn't had much of one in a decade.
Anyway, I'm not sure what I was ever thinking. How is staying with someone who can't even stand the THOUGHT of me cross dressed even possible while I transition? It just isn't. How is being the only transgendered person in a TINY judgemental, fundamentalist bible-belt town (there are larger high schools than this town) even remotely a good idea?
It's not going to happen. It was always a dream. I'd hoped we had a slim chance. I now realize there is a 0% probability of us staying together as a couple, or even as friends in the same home. I'll move back to a town I freaking hate and try to get my act together. It's just a question of steering this so that the crash (which is inevitable at this point) does as little damage to us both as possible.
I dunno, maybe I'll be so overjoyed by my life as a (not real) woman in one of the more trans unfriendly towns in the US (Dallas) and my life alone, with my cat, that my heart will have no room for resentment. Maybe I'll keep my job at least.
So I got a text from my brother-in-law this evening, Yeah, my wife outed me to someone else. At least this time she asked me - unfortunately, she only asked me after she outed me. I told her I don't trust her and I don't feel safe being Paula while she's in the house.
We'll stay together until after our son gets married. We're seriously talking about how we separate and divorce. We're done. It'll take a while to unwind, but we are done.
I'm considering giving myself permission to completely melt-down. Options:
1. Storm around the house enraged breaking stuff until I break one of my own limbs
2. Cry myself into a catatonic stupor
3. The big sleep
Opinions? Oh wait, I can't do that - too many people in my life need me. What about what I need? Who ****in' cares, apparently. I just need to hang on to give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give and give until I'm used up.
edit:
Thanks everyone for the votes! Storming around the house like a crazy person won by a landslide. Popping a xanax now to try to avoid property damage...
Yep, I like option 1 too, or 2, as both allow you to release what's inside. You are way to special and valuable for 3, honey.
I'll vote #1 too. :)
Perhaps you should find somewhere with a big plotter and get them to make a very big copy of post #177. You could stick it to the wall to show WHY option 1 is happening. :)
I would probably do #2
But thats just me.
Awake now. Woke up earlier to a panic attack. Took Xanax.
I know now what I've always known - I am a monster. There is no place on this world for me.
No more or less than the rest of us Paula. Hang in there.
Hey, I have more to post, but I'm still not 100%, so it'll have to wait until later. I just hate to leave a thread where I say such awful things, and then suddenly stop communicating. I'm pretty fragile, and I just haven't had the energy to write much. (Most of my energy has been spent on not having a panic attack.) I am doing MUCH better, although I'm still shaky.
BTW, the monster I have always identified with has been Mary Shelley's Creature, in "Frankenstein: or the Modern Prometheus". Intelligent, sensitive, and made of human flesh, but not human. Unable to fit into our world, and ultimately isolated. I wouldn't go after revenge - I totally don't approve of the creature's behavior in that regard - but floating off on the ice in the arctic has definitely seemed like a pleasant thought many times in my life. (Just not right now!)
I'm not a monster though - I know that. Feel like it some days though. Anyway, will say more later. Sorry.
I guess I'm done here on the forum.
For everyone who thinks I'm nuts and full of crap - gratz, you win.
For anyone who was interested in how this all turns out - sorry. I guess just make up whatever ending you feel good about.
OK, OK, OK, I feel better now. Dang. Note to self: Don't go a week without cross dressing. Makes me nuts, obviously!
Be assured that there are many here who recognize the seriousness of your situation and are really hoping for the best possible outcome. I personally have no idea what that would be, but somewhere there is a solution. And, given the same circumstances but owning to significant differences in backgrounds and experiences, others may reach an entirely different conclusion in how to work this out.
We always like to view things in terms of success or failure, but I think there is more to it than that. There is also how deal with the issues that are placed before us and how we consciously work to retain our dignity and humanity. This is not easy shit, by no means, but I think it is in part why humans were given intelligence and the capability to reason. But, it is easy to forget that we have those tools and that we can apply them as often as is needed.
Anyway, don't assume that because yesterday or last week was exceedingly difficult, tomorrow or next week will be also. It changes. We adjust and adapt and continue...
My wife watched my breakdown on Friday morning, and it worried her. (I didn't even make it out of bed!) So sunday, she asked how I was doing, and I told her the truth for once - "not great." She told me "I'll stay upstairs and work on real estate - you go be YOURSELF downstairs, go get dressed." So she acknowledges that the female presentation of me is the real me. This is big progress.
We've talked about a lot of stuff in the past few days. She's decided not to collapse under the strain of this, and to help me. I'll still stay out of sight of her, and when we're together, I'll do my best to be a good husband. She's able to joke about this with me now - another really good sign.
I think we're going to go ahead and tell our kids, and the rest of the family. People will want to visit, and keeping the secret is a real strain on her. So I'll go ahead and be out to everyone who needs to know. Keeping secrets is hard for her - I'd rather she not be burdened - she's already doing a lot to help me.
Although this all sounds (and is) a LOT better, we'll still separate, and we may divorce soon. I can't transition here - it is really way too dangerous of a place. I can't ask her to leave the only place she's ever felt at home. So at some point in the next few months, we'll likely separate, I'll move to a metropolitan area that is still within driving distance, and visit on the weekends.
I've been able to be Paula for at least a few hours a day for the last four days. I feel HEAPS better.
Hi Paula,
It sounds like some real positive stuff between you and your spouse. I'm glad to hear that.
I hope it goes well telling you kids and family. Its hard to predict how they will take it.
All you can do is take the action you need to, and leave the outcome to them. At that point it will be beyond your control and it wont be your problem.
My wife came home from her therapist visit today, and took a nap. Afterwards, she called me, and told me that "I am ready to see Paula today - I've talked with my therapist about it, and I've thought about it, and if you are ready to let me see you, I am ready to see you."
So I'm downstairs, working. I'm wearing a blue maxi dress and a blue shrug, and black pumps, and a nice gold necklace. I tell her "If you are sure honey, I would love to show you - give me five minutes to fix my face!"
So she came down, and I walked out to her, and she gave me a hug. She was surprised at how I looked - she thought I looked very attractive, and a LOT like my sister. (I see that too.) We talked for quite a while, and she told me:
"You can go ahead and move your clothes into the bedroom, and dress for the day there. You are in crisis, I told my therapist it was time for me to put on my big girl panties, and HELP you. You've helped me over the years so much, to be a stronger and more confident person. I owe you this - you have put me first so many times."
I'm overwhelmed - I just don't know what to say. We talked a lot, and made dinner together. (Trying to cook in pumps - not so much...)
There's some heavy stuff - we're still getting a divorce. But we are committed to helping each other through this. I'll stay here as long as I can. When I am transitioning more, I'll move out, and visit on weekends. (It just isn't safe here in our tiny town.)
It's big progress though. I can't believe this - this happened far more quickly than I'd ever imagined.
We'll have to see if we have a sex life after the reveal. We may not - that is a likely casualty here. :(
Still, she gave me a LOT of compliments - she thought my clothes were tasteful, my walking in pumps surprisingly good, and she was impressed by my eyemakeup and blush. Got some constructive criticism on lipstick and mascara. Good stuff, and great to be able to share with the person I love most in the world.
I warned her that I'll probably talk to much - so when she's tired of this subject, to PLEASE tell me to "shut the F up!"
What a surprising turn of events, huh?
Surprising, Paula, and fantastic! So glad there has been a breakthrough.
Isn't Life wonderful. I'm so happy for you. Kudos to you Girl:hugs:Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
I am very happy for you, Paula, but I'm not really surprised by how it is with your partner.
one thought I have - if your sex life is important and you want to keep having one ( the impression I get is that you do and that you are going to miss it) then please give it a lot of very, very careful thought before starting hrt.
Thanks arbon, I never thought in a million years that is say this, but I don't care, for myself, about a sex life. I worry about it for my wife, so for that reason, I'll delay HRT as long as I can. If GD says differently, well, I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.
My libido is really low now. I'll see what happens. My wife may not be able to view me as a sex partner now, even presenting as male. We'll see and I'll give this careful thought. Not wanting sex is pretty weird, I have to tell you...
Sometimes the journey is hard. It is good to have it all out in the open even if it has been difficult. I am happy that things are progressing in a better way for both of you.
As my Dad told me.......There's come a time when that season of your life is over. Who knows that better than the individual experiencing it. I'm not surprised by the commercialism of drugs to keep it working due to what I suspect that may be a "kick in the nuts" for a macho man.:heehee:Quote:
Originally Posted by PaulaQ
I think it's mostly my depression and the antidepressants duking it out. I'm going through a lot right now, so sex isn't a real big priority. Also, the particular antidepressant I'm on makes it nearly impossible to have an orgasm. My therapist isn't too concerned, and neither am I, really.Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticLady
I've spent most of this week as Paula. Yesterday afternoon, until this afternoon, I was Paula. I went to my support group, went to a restaurant, checked into and then this morning out of my hotel en femme. I went to therapy, got my nails done at the mall, and then out to lunch afterward as Paula. It was a really nice day. I got treated like a woman by quite a number of people, including passers-by. At least some of that time, I guess I passed. Well, I'm not so worried either way, although a woman did come up to me and ask me a question at a restaurant. That felt authentic. I'm pretty sure a woman at the nail salon (another customer) clocked me, but I don't think the nail tech did. (There was enough of a language barrier that it was hard to tell.) Anyway, got "ma'amd" a lot, which was nice.
I expect to tell my kids next weekend. "Hey, sorry, I really won't be needing that tie you got me..." (j/k)
Sounds like its been a good week - you are due one!
I'm glad you're having a good week Paula. You mentioned sex with your wife... it isn't necessary for you to have an orgasm for you to be intimate with her in that way. Nor is it necessary to even use the male equipment to be intimate with her and help her feel good. You've mentioned a couple times that you won't have a sex life later, and like Arbon mentioned you need to think about the effects of hrt if that is a concern. Women think differently about sex than men do.
You're still the same person no matter what clothes you are wearing or gender role you are living. It isn't uncommon for wives to feel uncomfortable having intimate relations when presenting differently but how much of her discomfort is because of your expectation that it won't work?
If she expresses a sentiment that you are too different then just emphasize that you are still the same person inside that you have always been, right? You're not doing this to become somebody or something that you're not right?
Thats awesome Paula!!! :cheer:
I bet it helps a lot with how you have been feeling, to be able to let yourself out in the world some more.
Paula..
I'm very pleased to see that you're in a much more cheerful mood. Life is and will be just an experience..that's all. Its great that you've have found a way to turn things around. Kudos to you Girlie:):hugs:
Well, tonight wasn't so much fun. I was meeting my wife at a restaurant in town, but she had to wait on me for a while, because I was fixing a friend's PC, and it took longer than I'd expected. So she had a couple of glasses of wine while she waited, and then one or two more with dinner.
She told me that she doesn't want to see Paula wearing my wedding ring. She doesn't feel Paula's earned it, and she doesn't like Paula much. :( She didn't marry Paula, she says.
So I agreed not to wear it, at least for a while, while presenting as Paula.
She also doesn't want to share our vacation next month with Paula - so if I live by that, no Paula for 6 days. I'm not sure I can do that. I'm not sure what I'll do about this one. Last time I went a week without any cross gender expression (just last weekend), I tried to commit suicide. I don't think I'll do that again, but I really don't want to be having constant depression and anxiety during our vacation time. :(
She told me that she feels that Paula has killed her husband, usurped him, that the only thing keeping the male side of me around is her. So she asked if I'd be Paula 24/7 if she wasn't in the picture for some reason, and I was honest and told her "yes."
She said this was just killing her. I told her that I knew that, and that being male was killing me, and I didn't know how to resolve this horrible conflict between what we each needed.
She feels like I'm two different people, and that Paula has usurped and destroyed the man she married.
I took her home - she was too drunk to drive herself. She went to bed, and I could hear her wailing when she got upstairs.
I'm going to a graduation celebration for my niece this weekend. I was going to go out as Paula with my friend who I'm out to, but he isn't ready for that, so I guess Paula stays locked inside the male version of me this weekend. Drag. Nobody wants Paula this weekend.
It started out so innocently, our conversation this morning:
She mentioned that it didn't seem like I had a very satisfactory trip to Dallas for my niece's graduation party.
I allowed that I hadn't - I was feeling a little sorry for myself, didn't know most of the people there, and was still feeling a little hurt by her comments from Friday. (She got drunk, and really lambasted Paula - she doesn't like Paula, at all. She doesn't want me to wear our wedding ring while I'm Paula. This hurts.)
My friend in Dallas wasn't ready to meet Paula either, so I cancelled my dinner with him. I didn't feel like sitting there, feeling crappy and dysphoric, and discussing this shit.
So I came home instead of spending the night. I said I just wasn't feeling very accepted. She got furious with me for being so negative. I tried to diffuse it, saying "hey look - I mentioned I was feeling a little sorry for myself - I just wasn't feeling it, so I came home."
She was really angry though, and then realized she got angry whenever I expressed negative emotions. I pointed out that this made it difficult for me to really tell her how I feel, that I sometimes have negative emotions.
That set her off - she was like "after all the compromises I've made for you - THIS WAS YOUR CHOICE --- " ...
I started laughing. How ****ing absurd. So I did something I shouldn't have done, and told her the absolute truth:
"Hon, I want to die."
She got more furious, pounded the table and was like "JUST GO DO IT THEN AND PUT ME OUT OF MY MISERY!!!!"
"You know that my death would create enormous problems for you and the kids."
"YOU CAN'T SAY THAT - IT'S LIKE INVOKING NAZI'S IN AN ARGUMENT - YOU CAN'T ARGUE WITH IT, IT'S NOT RIGHT TO DO THAT TO ME"
I wanted to say: "My choice to be Paula seems like a better alternative than the only other one I can think of."
But she said: "I think I need to move to my mom's!"
"That's absurd, you love it here, your life is here, you'd hate it there."
Her: "I think we need to separate"
"OK, I can do that, but I'll need a little time - I have to set things up so I can move and work right away after the move, it'll take a couple of weeks or so. We both need for me to stay employed."
I went out and did some yardwork, and took a nap later.
She told me later, after I got us some dinner, that she didn't want to be without me. Although she's worried she's holding me back.
She doesn't understand why I want to die. Is it because she's holding me back?
So I took a moment to answer, and she took that to mean "yes, it's totally because you can't accept me as a woman."
I had to disabuse her of that. I want to die because I've been in physical and emotional pain for my entire life. My physical pain is bad, but I manage by ignoring it as much as possible. But the emotional pain is always there and right now, it is unbelievable - I hate myself so much, and the idea of 30 more years or so of the nightmare I'm going through now is just not something I can contemplate.
I want an end to my misery. I'm NOT thinking about doing anything about this now - I'm NOT.
I still have some hope that I can transition, and heal emotionally. If I can't - I simply refuse to live in this agony for the rest of my life. Or rather, if I have to live in agony for the rest of my life, my life will be short.
She can't understand this line of thinking at all. I'm simply tired and worn down. I don't want to live in misery any longer. I'm hoping I'll survive until I start feeling better. I'm trying HARD to do it.
Anyway, we may need separate soon. She's miserable. I'm making her miserable. She is desperately unhappy because of me.
I don't know whether or not that'll be better for either of us. Having some support from an unhappy and somewhat accepting (but not totally) spouse vs. being totally alone with my only support being family and friends who just aren't ready to provide much support yet. (Support doesn't mean "I love you and still accept you - now let me argue with you about why this can't really be right...") I lose my therapist and support group too when I go to Dallas. There are others, but I'm restarting everything. For her, she loses what time she has remaining with the male side of me.
By August we'll get divorced anyway. It's just a question of whether we try to stay together for a few more months. I can't transition out here anyway. It's too hostile, even if home becomes wonderful. (It won't. It may improve though.)
Honestly, I really don't see how we get around her dislike of Paula. She doesn't hate Paula, but she doesn't like her, and doesn't want to live with her. She'll live with my male self.
So for now, back in the closet with Paula, and I'll be Scott for her as much as possible, and hide Paula. I don't really see her getting over this before I need to go anyway. I felt last week was kind of a miracle, and almost too good to be true. Turns out - it was too good to be true. Two sightings was all it took.