Divorce, kids and crossdressing

Hello:

I decided to post seeking other ppl experiences regarding divorce proceedings, kids and crossdressing.

A couple of weeks ago in a court session in Tennessee which BF was represented by his lawyer but he wasn't actually present, his soon to be ex told the female judge all about his crossdressing, the lawyer objected and asked her for proof of her claim and although she clearly admitted she didn't have any evidence at all, the judge ruled his visitation rights were cut off to 0days, in other words he's not allowed to see his kids and this broke his heart. In order to be considered to re-establish them he has to go infront of the judge in a future court date to explain his "unfit" behavior. :Angry3:

Thinking we don't have the best lawyer for his case, in two separate approaches seeking a second opinion, as soon as the crossdressing issue comes up the lawyers tend to be unfriendly toward the whole thing and are not interested. Apparently we are working with a very conservative County, I haven't found yet a transgender friendly attorney.

BF was already dealing with parental alienation and now she has the law in her side. He adores those kids, he's a great dad, I don't see how this is in the best interest of the children.

I will appreciate any thoughts...

Ouch, ouch, ouch. But I think (s)he has to go court. My kids are more imprtant to me than my cd-ing and I would do everything in power to retain access to them.

I also am absolutely sure he's a brilliant Dad.

I so much wish her luck! But she so much needs to retain the access to her children. I know she will make them grow.

That's just sad. But unfortunately welcome to the south, I take it it wasn't in a big city like Nashville or Knoxville.:hugs::love:

Just google transgender friendly lawyers in your state, I'm sure a few will pop up. What the ex wife did was disgraceful, playing that kind of game, what a cow :Angry3:

reminds me of when I first came on to this forum to see another GG use that line of play in divorce proceedings...

also knowing...that my partner's ex wife did something similar but must of fell on deaf ears as no one has asked him, or even me....but if we were both asked.... the honest answers would be given.....

but like Tamara said mrs X gg, there has to be some lawyers that can see pastthe crossdressing and to what this woman has done... to score points....

wish you both luck in finding a "JUST" end for everyone that can be a horrible LEGAL battle and costly in all ways....

thats a side of "some" women oi hate...:love:

My ex had found out when I told her and CD in front of her a few times. Naturally when the visitation and custody topics came up in court, she and her lawyer tried to play that card.... despite the obvious proof my side had that she was and still is an unfit mother.

As far as my ex knew, I never CD'ed outside the bedroom. And are one's bedroom activities admissable in court when a case involving visitation and custody is being heard? No way.

The courts in my state, and I've found out in many states surrounding mine, will side in favor of the mother regardless of the proof against the mom .... ( yeah she carried the child, but still.... ) In a sense it's a detriment to own a penis. :rolleyes:

To this day I've never CD'ed in front of my kid, and still won't. In the end my ex had one of many psychotic breakdowns and I've had custody ever since.


Karen

It sounds like he may need a better lawyer, maybe one who is familiar with that particular judge. I wish him the best of luck, this is a horrible situation.

Worse yet is having to deal with parental alienation, this can cause more long term heartache and stress if it is allowed to continue. I would suggest finding a lawyer who is familiar with this issue as well. My experience is that most judges don't want to directly deal with it and will turn it over to a social worker to make a recommendation as to the suitabilty of each party regarding visitation and custody. If the social worker comes to the table with an preconceptions regarding crossdressing then it will be all the more difficult to resolve this equitably.

It may be along shot, but if both parties could seek some mutual counseling with the goal to make the divorce as easy as possible on the kids, everyone would be better off in the long run.

Thank you for your support and advice.

BF tried to seek counseling or mediation to make things easier and faster and she denied, she just wants to "rip the hell out of him" her own words. So far, she is winning :sad:

The case is not being held in a big city so to have a transgender friendly lawyer who specializes in dad's divorce is to travel 2.5 hours from perhaps Nashville and will costs us travel costs of $2,000 (hourly rate of $250.00) in addition to the retainer fee of $2,500 and BF's travel and lodging expenses since we don't live in TN. Yeah...I've been making my homework :brolleyes:

Ironic in this case is that BF is the plaintiff and the grounds is adultery form her part, she had a baby from another man. The only thing the judge said about that was the she acknowledge the baby wasn't his...everything else has turned against BF. She was awarded with $100 a wk for alimony plus increase in the child support which is already over $1000 for their two kids. BF also has to fill a questionair with 50 q's between his cding and his relationship with me.

Obviously he has a useless lawyer...my fear is that we might get stuck with him if I don't get a hold of someone better who wants our case soon.

I find it completely disgusting that this :censor: can be so petty! Those children are lucky enough as it is to have a father who is fighting to be in their lives and all she can do is be vengefull because she got caught having an affair. Women like this make me sick to my stomach and I wish deep, dark, ill will upon any who would do this to a dedicated father.

You let that strong, upstanding, proud father know that he has an army of people chearing on his behalf.

Thank you Plasibeau.

Yes its unbelievable and absurd any mother put her agenda before her own children needs. I still can't figure how can there be women like this with so much hate in their hearts they can't even see how the little ones are suffering.

Both parents have the right to be in their kids life and to deny this right it's far beyond comprehension and it screams how deficient and awful is the law here in the US...it doesn't necessarily mean justice for all.

BF didn't crossdress infront of his kids, they knew because the adults constantly argue about it and their mom tells everyone she knows to embarrass him. He didn't even do it that regularly to avoid the discussion and the drama.

The thing is that his first response was to deny it to his current lawyer when the subject first came up, he got afraid of the consequences and to be judged, I know bad decision :doh:. But the lawyers reaction was of relief because if it "was true" he wouldn't know how to approach a case like this anyway. BF now is standing by his answer at least to this lawyer, but in reality it complicated things...hard to turn back.

In my search for a new lawyer and Ive been presenting the subject as this was a intimate matrimonial venture that she too willingly participated so she has no right to use it against him now. Which in a sense is true. But clearly this justification is not enough to some ppl.

We don't know what else to do...should he go in and deny it to the core? She doesn't have proof anyway... or Should he change his version to his lawyer and say the truth? Im not sure of the outcome in that one, the lawyer obviously not to fond about it.

To be able to relate to his kids is the ultimate goal we won't give up...but what good will it be if to have them means to be supervised by a total stranger that might define any manifestation of affection of his part unacceptable or inappropriate...just because he's a crossdresser.

This is so freaking hard even to write...

You need a really good lawyer! You need The LGBT Community on your side! Get to Nashville right quick, contact The ACLU, or contact any number of agencies and services for The LGBT Community in that city.

My guess is that they won't let this "case" go on like this. There is abundant case law that a competent lawyer could site that clearly shows rulings that would stop all of this nonsense!

The spouse has to "PROVE" that The crossdressing has a detrimental effect on the children. Let's "put the shoe on the other foot," If his ex-wife was sleeping with a Motorcycle Gang, he would still have to PROVE that her conduct was detrimental to the children's well being. And that is a very hard thing to do! Questionnaires, being transgendered, and all this other stuff are not germaine, not unless the other lawyer can prove they are.

Judges can act capricious and crazy, they control about everything in their own courts and are subject only to review in Appellate. Find a lawyer familiar with transgendered issues, and if The Judge is adamant, that lawyer can at least request a new judge.

Unless he wants to get "railroaded," never wants to see his kids, pays through the nose, better find a new attorney, and do it damn quick!

Peace and Love, Joanie

Try this group http://www.tnep.org/ they are working on changing laws in Tennessee and they might be able to steer you to lawers who can help.

star

You know what I say, use the case against her. Try to find a ACLU lawyer and state that it's a gender issue. I'm sure they will be more then happy to take up a case about CDing, when it's not even his fault. It's basically discrimination. Or, use the power of the public. I"m sure he doesn't want his name shown to the public, but write about it in the newspaper, or news channel, or even a TV show. Say how he's being screw, when it was her who cheated, and he's being screwed over CDing. I'm sure the judge or her will back down. Make her be the cow she is in front of the world. If she wants to be a shit, then treat her like shit in front of the world. My saying.
:love:

Elizabeth

I find your BFs circumstances very sad. I'm a genetic woman who just went through a separation and have joint custody with my ex. It's not perfect but I think sole custody should be reserved for exceptional circumstances.

While we don't think crossdressing is a reason to keep children away from a parent, there are obviously lots that do.

Since the ex-wife is already making the crossdressing very public, why not take this opportunity to educate the children and everyone else involved? Use the media. Rather than deny anything, discuss what being transgendered is all about.

I don't know enough about your legal system to offer suggestions but there must be government agencies that might get involved to fight discrimination.

Wish I could help.

We cant consider the media as an option, he works for the military they have the rule don't ask don't tell and he can actually get fired if they knew. I mean she already has called his sargeants to tell all about it but they ignored her since he has an impeccable behavior record.

As for the Nashville lawyers... I did make an approach to an LGTB friendly law firm but he would had to charge us $2,000 just for travel time everytime he appeared in court since is a 2.5 hour drive to Maury County at $250 hourly rate, this in addition of the retainer fee and my BF travel expenses, we don't live in TN. Is a lot of money we can't afford. He even mentioned this might take at least 4 or 5 visits to the court...add all that up :eek:

He couldnt recommend any other lawyer in the area specialized, he basically told us to approach as many lawyers as we can in that specific County to see who has the better legal strategy...but two already didn't want our case.

We even don't mind to pay whatever she wants as far as he can be with his kids and get this over with. But this is beyond the money issue, she really wants to burn him in every possible way.

Yeah...bad things do happen to good people and it sucks!!!

He needs an attorney who is educated on what it means to be a crossdresser and is not afraid to take on a conservative judge. In 1979 my deceased ex-wife attempted to get a divorce from her "sick depraved crossdressing husband" and asked the judge to deny me child visitation. The hearing took place in a Southeast Texas country courtroom. My attorney who had won two cases before the US Supreme Court was very accepting of my crossdressing and told the judge that he would trust me to care for his own young children. The hearing lasted less than an hour and in the end the divorce was granted and I was awarded equal custody of the children. Of course 1979 was before the push of right wingers who condemn anyone who does not fit their two boxes. I lived in central Tennessee for 3 years in my position as CEO of a large mental health care organization. I know how the ultra right judges in Tennessee write their own laws for everyone to follow.

I agree with latindancer. I often don't like the ACLU but I think this can definitely be called "discrimination on the basis of sexual orientation" or something like that - the right lawyer will know what it is. Men get screwed over enough in divorce courts when they dress as men. They should not get screwed over more when they dress as women!

Just because the first Nashville lawyer is too much, don't give up hope! It's a big city and there are no doubt more. As others said, talk to the ACLU as well. Just don't give up because the first one didn't work out. Ask enough times and you might find one who will work pro bono. Also, you mention that he doesn't mind paying her whatever she wants if it means he gets to see his children. A bit of money now for a good lawyer might be a better investment in the long run. It sounds like right now he's going to get soaked for money and not get to see the kids. A good lawyer might help both those.

I've been in divorce court, (it took 8 years to settle everything), and in many other courts, as plaintiff AND defendant.

The best defense in court, is a GOOD OFFENSE! I can't believe your BF skipped the court hearing! The combination of that, plus having a poor, (and possibly unprepared), attorney, may have cooked his goose before the presiding judge!

Did he tell his attorney that the ex would probably bring up his CDing? If so, did they prepare an effective defense when she did? I can think of LOTS of things that mite refute her testimony, and discredit her as well!

Remember, THE LAW has NOTHING to do with FAIRNESS! It's who's story is BETTER! From what I've seen, fabrications in court r the RULE, NOT the exception!:doh:

During my divorce, if my ex had brought up my CDing, she knew, in advance, the dirt I would dump on her! She didn't, I didn't! Even tho my attorney wanted to!

I don't think u need a "gender sensitive" attorney. U need a REALLY GOOD, EXPERIENCED attorney! He/she will come up with points that could convince a judge to see your side of things!
Unfortunately, the best legal minds COST! How much r your BF's kids worth? U 2 must decide! And FAST!

Well, since there's aparently no proof, I'd completely deny the whole thing. Purge all female clothes if necesaary, and lie till I was blue in the face. Get up in court and tell the judge it's a total fabrication so she can get custody of the children.

He said, she said, and appealable if found against him.

No proof is no proof. Period.

Hooray for American Justice.

BTW, falling in love with psychotic women just because they SLIGHTLY TOLERATE (or appear to tolerate) our dressing is a bad idea.

As I'm sure many of you know.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Crysten

lie till I was blue in the face

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Crysten, I think you're right in theory, but it's not a good idea to lie in court unless you have a good lawyer that will teach you how to be a good liar.:battingeyelashes:

Has your lawyer argued the point that cross dressing is not actually a moral or social crime but adultery is , and if she has a child with another man that has a greater effect on the morals of there other children than what type of clothes someone likes to wear .

Quote:

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

Remember, THE LAW has NOTHING to do with FAIRNESS! It's who's story is BETTER! From what I've seen, fabrications in court r the RULE, NOT the exception!:doh:

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And this is precisely my experience. I won't go into the details here other than to say in my case, the ex knew how to play the game better. He has the money, he was dishonest, ruthless, and he won custody. I learned too late. It also didn't hurt that his attorney and the Judge are friends.

I do have a thought. It is my understanding that when individuals, and I am guessing they are mostly women, file Orders of Protection, the law doesn't take much time to deliberate just in case there is a real danger. The accused is immediately barred from having any contact, until he can prove that he is not a threat. In principle this makes sense because it errs on the side of caution. Compare this to someone being falsely arrested. It would be best to cooperate and later on prove that the arrest was false.

So now BF just needs to show up in front of the judge and prove that he is not a threat to the kids. The Judges' priority is the children's welfare, not what goes on behind your bedroom door. BF doesn't need to contradict himself to his attorney, and the attorney should know what ammunition the ex is likely to use. But if, for the purposes of the custody hearing, BF treats the CDing as being part of his private, intimate life with a consenting adult, then how can the Judge take it as negatively impacting the children? This also would not be a lie as concerns the children, since BF has not CDed in front of them. It should be made clear to the Judge that neither BF and the ex, nor BF and you, ever engaged in intimate adult behaviors in front of the children. Does this make sense?

It appears as if, in order to get custody, the ex wants to use what happens behind closed doors and twist it into a behavior that will hurt the kids. Seems to me that such blatant lies should reflect negatively on her. She is obviously not thinking of the kids' best interests if she wants to deprive them of one of their parents.

In England and Wales, the court is advised by professionals from the Children and Family Court Advisory and Support Service who are directly accountable to the Lord Chancellor. If the parents cannot come to an agreement about child access prior to the court appearance then the CFCASS will interview both parents and the children and make their recommendation based on what they believe is the children's best interests and also taking into account the children's own wishes. It's possible that a judge might ban the father from having any contact with the children but the children themselves would have to be adamant that that is what they want.

I agree docrobbysherry to skip court was just wrong, although we didn't have much control over this. Lawyer told BF on Friday afternoon court date was on Monday morning and he clearly say that his presence was not necessary. What a bright idea he had :doh: most likely this single act rubbed the judge in the wrong way. The cding thing was the cherry on the top.

We are expecting a consultation of a female lawyer who is reviewing our docs for about three days now. I called her yesterday and her assistant said she was still on the papers she would get back to us soon. This might be a light in the tunnel. I haven't hear her yet so Im eager to find out her POV. There is something in female lawyers that make them fierce...my fingers are cross.

He also has like 50 questions about the cding and his relationship with me. How do we approach this q's????????

Well I guess the cding ones will depend on our approach to the case...but they're also asking the exact circumstances of how we met, when where and how many times we first have sex, how many gifts he has given me and the costs, cel numbers he use to contact me, internet providers he use for his emails with me, type of computer he uses, do we webcam, facebook and myspace accounts, he has to submit every pic he has of us, how did he afford my engagement ring, places we traveled together.....

Im thinking just to answer....NO to everything. How in earth they going to prove us otherwise?????

I appreciate your thoughts.....

The CDing is private and does not impact the kids. Be honest with how you met. If the Judge feels an out-of-wedlock child is immaterial, why should he care how you met? Your sex life is private and it does not impact the kids. Answer the gift question. Unless BF has broken the bank and deprived the kids in order to lavish you with luxuries, it is not an impact. Email addresses and ISPs are private and do not impact the kids. The methods the two of you choose to communicate do not impact the kids. The social network sites you belong to do not impact the kids. The ex is trying to intimidate and frighten you. She cannot subpoena any of these records since the head offices of your ISPs, etc, are out of her State. Give the judge a nice pic of BF and you. Give the judge an accounting of your expenses in the last year, proving that the bulk went to living expenses and child support. With the vacations, unless the kids have suffered financially because of where you went, what does this info have to do with anything?

Give the Judge details of each time BF tried to contact the kids but was foiled by the ex.

I'm guessing the ex's attorney is asking this in an Interrogatory. Your lawyer can cite cases where it has been proven that the majority of the questions asked have absolutely no legal bearing on custody. The ex is trying to smear BFs character, and she can't if he refuses to play into her hands. You've done nothing wrong. Your answers, when applicable, need be reasonable.

You can also ask all the same question of the ex, plus how many men has she slept with? Has she had any abortions? How many times has she had the kids babysat in order to spend nights with men? How many different men have they been exposed to?

But, do discuss these points with your attorney. Mrs. X, the ex cannot smear your character. You are a decent person, a good mom to your kids, as is BF. That's all the Judge wants to know.

I can't bleve that (s)he had a cort date for his rights and didn't show up !!! Sorry but that wasn't to smart on his part.

Reine wrote to agree with an earlier post about "fairness" in justice...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

And this is precisely my experience. I won't go into the details here other than to say in my case, the ex knew how to play the game better.

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This is right on the money. The law (even when "accurately" applied) has nothing whatsoever to do with "fairness". The Anglo-American judicial system is about rules, regulations, and protection for those lacking protection. (Remember, this is an "ideal" picture, your mileage may vary.)

Reine went on to make a related and very important point:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ReineD

It is my understanding that when individuals ... file Orders of Protection, the law doesn't take much time to deliberate just in case there is a real danger. The accused is immediately barred from having any contact, until he can prove that he is not a threat. In principle this makes sense because it errs on the side of caution.

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Again, this is exactly right.

I hate to say it but BF was completely insane to allow his lawyer to go to court unattended. In the U.S. they generally call this "family court". This name should be interpreted to mean that you, as family, had better be there.

And, in response to something else that was said on this forum, yes, bedroom behavior is completely valid. Family law is all about values. As such, all sorts of legally questionable material ends up in court. This is normal (though not necessarily "good" jurisprudence).

A friend of mine (GG) made the mistake of writing a long erotic novel after her separation and before the divorce proceedings. Her ex captured the entire thing via a key logger and entered it as "evidence" that she is an unfit mother. Fortunately, the ploy did not work, but it seriously complicated matters.

So, to conclude, the best bet is for BF to appear above reproach. Since he is military, always appear in court wearing an immaculate uniform. If possible, take friends, also in uniform. No one wants to be seen as denigrating a soldier serving his/her country.

Most of all, appear in court at all times!

Sounds like u r on the rite track now! DO NOT do anything without your attorney's approval FIRST! :Angry3:

No phone calls, no filled out paperwork and, as Reine said, ABSOLUTELY no live interviews or interogatories without him/her there!:eek:

By the way, in my divorce, my attorney was female. Altho it took 8 years, it came out EXACTLY as she predicted it would! But, I live in Cal. Divorce laws r different in every state!:brolleyes:

Last add:
It's nice that folks here r trying to give u helpful advise on testimony and tactics. I will NOT give u any, however. Since every case is different, and since I'm NOT familiar with every single detail of yours, and since I'm NOT your attorney, any advise I gave u could be VERY WRONG! Remember any ideas that sound good to u here. Then, run them by your attorney. In the end, listen ONLY to your attorney! THAT'S why u need a REALLY GOOD ONE!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by docrobbysherry

any advise I gave u could be VERY WRONG! Remember any ideas that sound good to u here. Then, run them by your attorney. In the end, listen ONLY to your attorney!

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I said lots of things too, but please don't do anything without consulting with the attorney. Also, I missed a court date 2 years ago due to weather. I was stuck in an airport overnight. A lot of people told me that Judges don't forgive this easily, no matter how good my reasons.

And I love Stephanie's point about wearing an impeccable uniform. :hugs:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

We cant consider the media as an option, he works for the military they have the rule don't ask don't tell and he can actually get fired if they knew. I mean she already has called his sargeants to tell all about it but they ignored her since he has an impeccable behavior record.

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This isn't a good idea anyway. It can be used against your husband as evidence of an unfit parent.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

We even don't mind to pay whatever she wants as far as he can be with his kids and get this over with. But this is beyond the money issue, she really wants to burn him in every possible way.

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Bad idea. This is a foot-in-the-door technique that can be used by the ex to bankrupt you and your husband. From what you’ve already posted, I think she is fully capable and willing to do this.

Perhaps a barrister experienced in dealing with abusive relationships from the abused’s point of view would help. From what I see here, it is clear that emotional abuse is taking place. Proving it, unfortuneately, is difficult at the best of times. IMHO an expert witness (a psychiatrist sympathetic to and a lot of experience with properly dealing with gender issues) will be required if your barrister doesn’t have much understanding of transgender issues. A psychiatrist’s expert testimony normally overrules a social worker’s.

Her adultery sets a very poor example to her children. It says to them that breaking wedding vows is acceptable to get her way is acceptable behaviour, and evidence of parental unfitness.

His crossdressing can be used to teach tolerance of diversity, a positive impact on his children. There is far too much intolerance in this world, and it is in every country. I intend to assist in defeating the current intolerant Canadian government come election time for this and many other reasons.

This is likely against your nature, but you are going to have to learn to fight fire with fire, if not high explosives. No more Mr. & Mrs. Nice People. This is going to take an ethical but ruthless and well-researched barrister (in court, at least) who is not afraid to delve into the minutiae of the previous marriage to have any chance of success. You may be falsely accused of prevaricating to get your way. It’s happened to me.

I wish I could say otherwise, but this is very likely to get worse before it gets better. I hope you don’t have to deal with an elected judge because they tend to get thrown out of office if they hand down too many unpopular but legally correct decisions.

Good luck.

We have the most brilliant caring people in this site I didn't know where else to turn too but my family here. :hugs:

Fire with fire:
He didn't want to hurt her at all, she is the mother of his children, but she has taken this way to far and yes Im doing whatever I can to give him the tools to prove her wrong. Ive been contacting attorneys, reading the law, other similar cases...Oh! :doh: research and research for days, to find out where we are and what we can hold on to.

BF will not give up. She can get away with money and sadly to say she might also damage the relationship with his kids to some point, but all this will go so far. Eventually they will grow up and make their own mind about what's happening and this is life beyond her control. She can have it all... BUT US!

There is a positive side to all this though. I feel free...I, myself was pondering in what I now see as insignificant issues of his cding that are not even in the back burner anymore, they just disappeared. Through this process I realize I love this man so much, Im willing to go to whatever extent to help him, to ease his pain and to support him whatever the outcome. He has been punished for this way too long and I was also adding to this with my lack of faith in his words. It takes us these wake up calls to understand that Life is above and beyond the drama and heartache we choose to consume ourselves in. That there are more important issues out there besides the clothes ones wear, like the possibility of losing your kids, or not being able to be with that person you love. For this enlightment Im grateful.

Definitely I will run all through our lawyer, whom will be. We have to focus on BF getting into court ASAP to start some damage control, to face the judge and to set the record straight. I just hope the new lawyer we're approaching be the right one to help us do this and that she contacts us soon. I'll give her an extra day or two and I will call her back.

I have to thank you all dearly for your thoughts and imput. You have given me light and so many things to think about..I feel supported and with hopes again.

:love:

U sound like SUCH a good person! :battingeyelashes:

I DO hope things with your BF workout!:thumbsup:

Mrs X. You are truly a beautiful person.My best wishes for a positive outcome for you and your BF.

Hello again Mrs. X,

By fighting fire with fire I didn't mean deliberately trying to hurt the ex. I meant to suggest that you use the ex's actions against her.

I've listed some articles below. To avoid running afoul of the links rules, I've posted titles. Google or your favourite search engine should be able to find them.

This is a professional journal article. Payment is required to obtain the full text.

Surprise! Men Who Cross-Dress Are Similar to Men Who Don't

Another journal article for which payment is required.

How Intimate Relationships Are Impacted When Heterosexual Men Crossdress

This one says accredited social work programs often don't include courses on dealing with crossdressing or other forms of transgenderism. The title and issue of the journal in which it appears is listed. You may be able to find this at a university where social work is taught.

Social Work Education: Implications for Working With the Transgender Community

This is a psychologist's website who deals with gender issues. Not all of the information is about transition.

Anne Vitale PhD: Notes on Gender Role Transition

This one says transvestic fetishism is not a diagnosable illness simply because society (or some members of society) says it is. The quotes are required to get it to appear at the top of search results.

"Transvestic Fetishism: Iatrogenic Artifact?"

Cheers
Giuseppina

Fire with fire = hurt
OH no darling I didn't get it that way either!!!!! :eek:

I meant that in our wildest dreams we thought this would get this complicated and she would treat him this way. We figured since she was the one with wrong-doing, they don't have any assets just bills he is paying for entirely anyway, this was to agree kids visitation and child support and done deal. He even took the case to TN but UT would have jurisdiction as well...they lived here as married for the last few years when she decided to return to her hometown. But then again, he thought she would skip court (no money for traveling expenses) and this would drag too long. Imagine that!!! Were we naive or what?

This didn't had to be this hard and all this money spent. Why she brought up his Cding? They are separated...Why does it matter? Kids behalf? Nah, vengeance is the real mood. She knows he's a great dad.

Well BF has a job we can go slowly but steady as long as we need too...she can't say the same, she's doesn't want to work, she's basically paying with the child support and help from her family members, that eventually won't last. Yes! fire with fire is are only alternative now, she wants things this way.

I will look into the articles...Ive been googling like mad. There's not much of cding cases in TN. And according to the lawyer is the first deligitimize case in that county as well :doh: In this day and age ppl don't do DNA there?

Thank you all for your words of support and Giuseppina for your help!!!!

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

I suggest that he contact the ACLU and get their help. But the most important thing is for him to be in court every time. His failure to be in court cost him a lot of points with the Judge. If he is not willing to take the time to come to court and stand up for himself on all issues all the judge has to go on is his wife's imput. Just seeing him dressed nice in a man's suit would have helped him in his defense. If all the judge sees is his attorney then he will get the impression that what the wife is saying is true. Remember that communications is 90% non verbal. The judge needs to see him to be able to get a feel as to what kind of person he is. He must be in court in person no matter who he gets to defend him.

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Originally Posted by sheidelmeidel

Crysten, I think you're right in theory, but it's not a good idea to lie in court unless you have a good lawyer that will teach you how to be a good liar.:battingeyelashes:

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It was my initial idea too, but I have to agree. If the judge finds out you're lying, then they'll have a real reason.

Divorce often is a nasty affair. Closest I've dealt with it, is my uncle and aunt. What I learned there is that the children need to be with both parents, and that constant fighting over the child makes a real mess.
Try to convince the judge that the interest of the child should be the most important factor. And then try to show that a child needs to see both sides and be with both parents. Have the judge set any conditions that they want about the CD-ing, but try to make the point that a child that truly knows both its parents will grow up to be a person that knows much better where they come from.

Depending on the defence, you might find the story of Salomon useful, about what he did when to women came to him claiming a child. He said he would chop it in two and give each a half. Then the real mother said anything but that. That way he knew it was her child.

I don't know the details, but a good defence will be needed, it is about the story and how it's told.

In the end try to do what is best for the children, and try not to be bitter. Keeping that focus will also give more confidence answering tough questions, which can be important in the non-verbal communication.

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

I meant that in our wildest dreams we thought this would get this complicated and she would treat him this way. We figured since she was the one with wrong-doing, they don't have any assets just bills he is paying for entirely anyway, this was to agree kids visitation and child support and done deal. He even took the case to TN but UT would have jurisdiction as well...they lived here as married for the last few years when she decided to return to her hometown. But then again, he thought she would skip court (no money for traveling expenses) and this would drag too long. Imagine that!!! Were we naive or what?

This didn't had to be this hard and all this money spent. Why she brought up his Cding? They are separated...Why does it matter? Kids behalf? Nah, vengeance is the real mood. She knows he's a great dad.

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Welcome to the world of divorces. :D :brolleyes:

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

Well BF has a job we can go slowly but steady as long as we need too...

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Good for him. But no more missing court dates!

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

she can't say the same, she's doesn't want to work, she's basically paying with the child support and help from her family members, that eventually won't last.

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That’s exactly what I am talking about with the ‘fire with fire’ comment. Unless she has a certificate of disability or the equivalent from a medical doctor or a list of hundreds of potential employers that have received her resume, this is evidence of unwillingness to take responsibility for the children and thus lack of fitness to be a parent. An accusation of failing to provide the necessities of life is probably going too far, but a cagey barrister might do just that to destabilise a witness on the stand. :devil:

It’s against my nature and probably yours, but you and your husband must, if you haven’t done so already, find your hard noses and selfishly, cynically, and shamelessly use this kind of thing to destroy the ex’s credibility. You and your husband, on the other hand, must be beyond reproach.

The same sort of thing can be used to expose gaps in an expert witness’s qualifications. Yes, I’m being hard-nosed here.

A word or two about the articles I found, for you and others in your situation:

I found these items with search terms of “crossdress” and “journal” (no enclosing quotes) and looking at the first 500 or so results. You will get more results with “transvestism” and “journal” that “crossdress” doesn’t pick up. The term “journal” eliminated most of the p**n and brought the academic journal articles closer to the top. Unfortunately, it didn’t get rid of a large amount of mostly innocuous but irrelevant material.

It’s a safe bet that the journals publishing the papers I found contain other papers of interest in other issues. Journals are published at regular intervals and called periodicals in libraries.

The list of references at the end of research papers is sometimes more valuable than the content. Obtaining copies of preceding work is part of the process.

University library catalogues are another great index to relevant material. Most if not all their “card catalogues” are posted and searchable on the internet, or at least they are near where I live. There are computerised indices of journal and conference papers available inside the library building(s), but usage may be restricted to students and faculty. I’ve taken the attitude that if things are open for use, I quietly and discreetly use the resources until I’m caught. :devil: That hasn’t happened, yet. :Pray: If use of the search engines requires a password, a stroll through the periodical stacks may provide the names of journals you can search at home over the internet. Look for “sex” , “gender” and anything else that catches your eye in the titles.

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

I will look into the articles...Ive been googling like mad. There's not much of cding cases in TN. And according to the lawyer is the first deligitimize case in that county as well :doh: In this day and age ppl don't do DNA there?

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It would be to your advantage to cast your net wider than your home state for case law. If you win your case, it may be precedent setting in your county, but I strongly suspect there are others before you that won similar cases. Case law depends very strongly on preceding decisions. There are others on the forum who have won custody despite male crossdressing. I’m not sure they would appreciate me naming names, and besides, I don’t remember who they are.

I'm not a lawyer, but it seems to me that you are going to have to provide a solid reason for breaking precedent to win your case. Debunking societal stereotypes is required. These and other journal papers may help, but there probably isn't a substitute for an expert witness. Yes, it will be expensive and IMO it's worth looking into.

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Originally Posted by Mrs. X (gg)

Thank you all for your words of support and Giuseppina for your help!!!!

:hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs::hugs:

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You’re welcome.

Cheers
Giuseppina

Another idea: Perhaps the judge could light a fire under the ex by ordering her to look for work.