wife needs a man

like many i have been dressing in secret since an early age , and now i can not lie anymore to my SO, we have been together for 21 years and married for 13. I know its going to be hard and i have researhed for many months how to handle it ,thats not the problem . the only thing that worries me is that , she quite often says after returning from buisness trips that she really misses a man . in drab i am quite a man and that she likes but i dont know how she will react to the woman in me.

i was wondering if there is anyone out there that can relate to this, and give advise or tell about reactiions (good or bad )

Since you are new to this site....You can probably find all the discussion you care to read about your question.Just start scrolling the columns and pages. It is all over here!

Pernille, honey you have yourself in a bad situation. One of which could go either way. You will find several discussioins about this. I hope that something will help. However before you make the final decision to tell ask yourself this Question. "Is my CDing worth losing all that I have?" I hope that it will not come to that. But you must realize it is a possibility. If you are extremly lucky she will embrace it and accept you as you are. If that happens she can always tell you when she needs her man.
I dress almost every day and sleep in a night gown. when my wife has had enough or needs her man she tells me and I go change. I am lucky. I hope you are too. Good luck

i may be a new member here , but believe me i have read so much here .
i know its a bad situation , on the one hand we dont want to lie to our SO and on the other hand we want to be at ease with who we are . i have spent many years wondering who i am or what i am , and its only now at the age of almost 40 i have found out . i am not ill.i am not odd i am not weired ,i am just a crossdressser. i do wonder though if it takes me so long to understand it , how can i expect my SO to understand it . i love her and i need to tell her so i can have ballance i my soul.

There is this [SIZE="4"]HERE[/SIZE] from the GG's which might give you a clue to what she may be feeling and thinking

or this [SIZE="4"]HERE[/SIZE] which was written by Marla GG that might help you

You could always tell her about this site and the fact we have a GG only part of the forum F.A.B (Females At Birth) that she can apply to join after she had done an intro in the intro section and a further 9 post on the forum, she will be able to come and talk with us GG's who have been/are going, through what she is feeling now :hugs: to you both and good luck :)

Edited to add .................... once you tell her, make sure you give her time to take it in, answer her with total honesty from there on .... if you don't know say so, do not lie. I t may take some time for her to come round, she may never accept it, ot it may turn out all okay, will keep fingers crossed for you both

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Edited to add .................... once you tell her, make sure you give her time to take it in, answer her with total honesty from there on .... if you don't know say so, do not lie. I t may take some time for her to come round, she may never accept it, ot it may turn out all okay, will keep fingers crossed for you both

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Couldn't agree more.

Don't expect it to be all ok in a few weeks,as it can take months even years for an SO to take it all in and be ok with it all.

Also as Sheila has said don't lie, because if you do and she finds out later on that you have, then things could turn nasty and unpleasant for both of you.

Let us know how things go.

After you read all the great entries above, let me just mention that my wife is completely supportive of Tina. Our agreement is that our marriage comes first, and when she wants her man, that's exactly what she gets! There is a time for Tina, and then there is a time for the man she married.

works for me, and I do hope it can work for you!

tina

This is where I think things get alittle sticky...my opinion only. I accepted the cding fine and enjoy behind closed doors....but honestly when I entered the relationship I entered thinking it was with a man and man only. And honestly do not desire to be a relationship with a full time CDer. Now with that being said, I think if you are going to tell her, that will be one of the most important topics to discuss with her, because it sound like for her that may be an issue. If you know that your intentions are to be full time at any point down the road, you should be completely honest. As far as how she will accept the women in you depends on her...and you know her better than any of us.

The more I read these threads the more I wonder if I am the odd one out.

I know that everyone here has a different story (some epic novels, mine more a Pop-up book) but everyone tries to make this an either/or proposition. I am and can be either very femme or I can be the biggest jerk of a man you ever met. I don't stay in one mode and it does not matter what I am wearing. It seems that several people here think that if you dress you cannot function in a male capacity. Yet, several find dressing sexually stimulating (so if that is what women are looking for when they say they want a man, I would think that would be a great reason to allow your man to dress or maybe I misunderstand the Cialis commercials) and I am sure that I don't forget how to fix the plumbing or mow the lawn or, if I had children, be a caring and nurturing father just because I have a skirt on. I can also cook a gourmet meal, enjoy the finer things in life and any other stereotypical feminine role you can suggest. If your relationship is based on physical appearance alone you are in trouble from the beginning. What exactly do women mean when they say I want a man? I don't think there is a standard answer no more than when a guy says he wants a woman. Does that mean he wants "Barbie"/ June Cleaver pearls and dress? Or does it mean he wants the subservient weak (childish?) person who doesn't think for themselves and does everything and anything who demand?

This is not an either/or unless you are planning on transitioning. You are who you are. The trappings are just that. Your arms are no less consoling when you dress up. Your body no less warm when you cuddle.

Don't put so much weight on what you wear. Put it on WHO you are. Either you are there for her or you ain't. Honestly the way man are portrayed we ain't there because that would show emotion. If both partners work together, dressing could be the ideal, the best of both worlds. This fails when one or both become self centered and selfish

Lorileah said it so much better than I did!!!

Why can't CDing be an addition instead of a subtraction???

:2c:

tina

Lorileah,
I don't understand what you don't get about us wanting a man...it is a man we chose, we didn't know until later that tables would be turned on us. If we aren't bi, we aren't physically attracted to women, so if he presents as a woman, that's how we see him...end of physical attraction. That is what we mean. No it doesn't mean we want a chauvinist pig, etc., that's not what we chose either...he's not that whether he presents as a man or dressed. It's really about physical attraction...basically he's the same inside whether dressed or not, but there's many of us that struggle with the idea of physical sex with someone who LOOKS like a woman, even if we know intellectually it is still our man. It does a number on us. Some of us may be able to get past that...some may not. But there are times we want a "man"...who looks like a man, talks like a man, smells like a man, acts like a man. If your wife looked and smelled like a man 24/7, wouldn't you miss the "her" that you married?

Hi Pernille and welcome to the site. I was caught by my first wife and dressed for the second and the results didn't fair well for me so the only advice I'll give is to see what Sheila has for you. She has always steered me straight in the past.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

The more I read these threads the more I wonder if I am the odd one out.

I know that everyone here has a different story (some epic novels, mine more a Pop-up book) but everyone tries to make this an either/or proposition. I am and can be either very femme or I can be the biggest jerk of a man you ever met. I don't stay in one mode and it does not matter what I am wearing. It seems that several people here think that if you dress you cannot function in a male capacity. Yet, several find dressing sexually stimulating (so if that is what women are looking for when they say they want a man, I would think that would be a great reason to allow your man to dress or maybe I misunderstand the Cialis commercials) and I am sure that I don't forget how to fix the plumbing or mow the lawn or, if I had children, be a caring and nurturing father just because I have a skirt on. I can also cook a gourmet meal, enjoy the finer things in life and any other stereotypical feminine role you can suggest. If your relationship is based on physical appearance alone you are in trouble from the beginning. What exactly do women mean when they say I want a man? I don't think there is a standard answer no more than when a guy says he wants a woman. Does that mean he wants "Barbie"/ June Cleaver pearls and dress? Or does it mean he wants the subservient weak (childish?) person who doesn't think for themselves and does everything and anything who demand?

This is not an either/or unless you are planning on transitioning. You are who you are. The trappings are just that. Your arms are no less consoling when you dress up. Your body no less warm when you cuddle.

Don't put so much weight on what you wear. Put it on WHO you are. Either you are there for her or you ain't. Honestly the way man are portrayed we ain't there because that would show emotion. If both partners work together, dressing could be the ideal, the best of both worlds. This fails when one or both become self centered and selfish

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I couldnt have put this any better myself. Only problem is that SO's dont always have the this idea :(

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Originally Posted by KayC

Lorileah,
I don't understand what you don't get about us wanting a man...it is a man we chose, we didn't know until later that tables would be turned on us. If we aren't bi, we aren't physically attracted to women, so if he presents as a woman, that's how we see him...end of physical attraction. That is what we mean. No it doesn't mean we want a chauvinist pig, etc., that's not what we chose either...he's not that whether he presents as a man or dressed. It's really about physical attraction...basically he's the same inside whether dressed or not, but there's many of us that struggle with the idea of physical sex with someone who LOOKS like a woman, even if we know intellectually it is still our man. It does a number on us. Some of us may be able to get past that...some may not. But there are times we want a "man"...who looks like a man, talks like a man, smells like a man, acts like a man. If your wife looked and smelled like a man 24/7, wouldn't you miss the "her" that you married?

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You are making this sexual. Tell me something, if there were no difference between the clothing you and your SO wore, would he be less a man if he expressed compassion instead of aggression? Here is where we get confused.

Women want power, and softness. Women want muscles yet tenderness. Acting like a man is societal. Smelling like a man is sort of gross usually. Talking like a man? is that like talking like a sailor? (females seem to do that a lot now)

Wives dress like men all the time (I hate that argument from CD's I don't like it any better from GG's). There is no gender in most daily women's wear in most cases. Women wear short hair (men prefer long hair...yet...). Some women never wear makeup most wear as little as they can. Men don't seem to have any problem looking past button down shirts, slacks and combat boots with a high and tight hair cut. Why is it harder for women to get past the opposite?

Everything that defines "man" to you is learned. If a male takes care of kittens is he not a man? If he cannot lift a small car? Guys can make a wonderful living and never get in fights or shoot weapons or hunt animals.

Do you see why we are confused? Most here don't want to be women. They just want to wear what they like or not be so confined to societal rules.

Has any GG here been asked when they put on a pair of pants "Do you want to be a guy? Do you want to have sex with a woman? You are not what I married...go put on a dress so I can see the woman I married"? (apologies to the transmen on that because they have been asked that I am sure).

When a GG says "I want a man", it IS about sexuality. Few of us can separate it so perfectly as you seem to in your head, maybe you're just miles ahead of us, I don't know, all I know is I'm not apologetic for wanting my man to BE a man at least some of the time, and I think most of the GGs feel the same way. It makes it a lot harder to respond if they look like a woman, we aren't Bi.

And there is a difference between a woman donning a pair of jeans and boots so she can shovel snow and a man wearing dress and heels for??? What functionality do they serve? I have no desire to look like a man, but I do need to wear pants in the wintertime where I live.

I certainly feel a man should be able to wear whatever he wants but if he is married it involves the both of you, not just him, and both need considered.

Women vary anywhere from no makeup to way too much. I personally don't think I look like a man whether I wear pants or not, but then I'm not strapping on fake muscles either. Ouch, sorry if that hurts but I think you're arguments doesn't hold.

By the way...I showed my BF your picture the other day because you, of everyone on this site, look most authentically like a beautiful model...a real girl!

I would SERIOUSLY think about what your wifes reaction is going to be. Way the good and the bad BECAUSE once you tell her you can NEVER take it back, as she will always know. IT CHANGES HER VIEW OF YOU weather that is a good thing or a bad thing is entirely UP TO HER.
I only say this as I told my wife of fifteen years 3 months ago. It was very difficult but it has been even more difficult then I imagined it would be. If I could turn back time. I would. I am still hopeful that all will be well and we will spend the rest of our lives together, but once you tell her because of all your guilt or what have you. Your wife is completely in charge of your happiness as a couple. This too can be a good thing as long as your wife is willing to change her views, and try to accept you for you and your other self.
I am not trying to tell you not to tell her as for me it had to be done, but be ready for the worst BUT HOPE for the BEST.
I have experienced many ups and downs since I came out to my wife but I am still hopeful that we can make it through this together. I just have to remember to take it as slow as my wife needs me to. Because I LOVE my wife and family I will try my best to do just that. I hope you do the same and I wish you the best of luck that I can offer. GOOD LUCK :)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KayC

When a GG says "I want a man", it IS about sexuality. Few of us can separate it so perfectly as you seem to in your head, maybe you're just miles ahead of us, I don't know, all I know is I'm not apologetic for wanting my man to BE a man at least some of the time, and I think most of the GGs feel the same way. It makes it a lot harder to respond if they look like a woman, we aren't Bi.

And there is a difference between a woman donning a pair of jeans and boots so she can shovel snow and a man wearing dress and heels for??? What functionality do they serve? I have no desire to look like a man, but I do need to wear pants in the wintertime where I live.

I certainly feel a man should be able to wear whatever he wants but if he is married it involves the both of you, not just him, and both need considered.

Women vary anywhere from no makeup to way too much. I personally don't think I look like a man whether I wear pants or not, but then I'm not strapping on fake muscles either. Ouch, sorry if that hurts but I think you're arguments doesn't hold.

By the way...I showed my BF your picture the other day because you, of everyone on this site, look most authentically like a beautiful model...a real girl!

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Thanks for the compliment. I also look pretty darn good in a sport jacket and fedora. :)

In defense of the CD's here looking more female, you can look at other postings where that exact question has been asked by Cd's. IF there were no double standard, there are quite a few here who would be satisfied to wear a skirt without all the fake body parts. But that is not allowed in society. In order to even go out CD's believe they have to look like a woman totally for 'protection'. Even our own will condemn a "man in a skirt" as being weird. Why? You got to be carefully taught.

I am still at a loss when you believe that just because a male wears clothing "designed" for a female they cannot fit your definition of a man. If said male feels more comfortable doing some sort of task (you say shoveling snow) in a dress or skirt how can you say they are wrong to do so when you decide to wear slacks? Maybe wearing a skirt to garden is more comfortable to them than dungarees. Women have that option. No one forces you to wear something just because you are female. Yet, you think that a male changes into a female when they change clothing. Functionally? I will defer to the age old excuse women have used ...It's comfortable.

A woman who dresses to present as a man can wear muscles or facial hair but they can "Pass" without that (I don't have either and I present as a man almost all the time) How a person presents is ...personal.

Does your mate stop being sexual when he dresses? Does he demand that you do something you don't normally do?

Why do people assume when a guy likes "feminine" things that he wants to be the opposite sex or have sex with the same sex? You tell men to be secure in our sexuality and then you are insecure in yours. I don't care for the lying, sneaking around or the guilty feelings that CD's have. If people would quit putting so much sexual weight on how a person dresses you would not see so much of that. The arguments of functionality or comfort are the rote answers that women put out 4o years ago. But they don't go the other way? Unless, somehow, your partner's genitals go somewhere when he puts on a dress OR he demands that you grow a sexual part before he will sleep with you, it should not be a sexual thing.

The insecurity you feel about being "bi" is you. Unless the dressing is done expressly for sexual purposes, it is just clothing.

I cannot make you feel better because you will always harbor those feelings. You look at it from that angle and no matter how much someone tries to reassure you , you will always assume that your man is gay because of his preference in a feel or look of a piece of clothing. Would we like women to wear dresses or skirts and heels all the time? Smell like verbena? Act like we are the reason for their living and be totally subservient? Many guys would say yes. Yet those are the guys women complain about for being dogs and cads. For not taking into account your feelings. For being totally self serving.

Is there a saying for men like "I want a guy who is intelligent at dinner, a mechanic in the garage and an animal in bed"? Sounds sexist doesn't it? It should. But that is what being a man seems to mean to many women.

Why can't CDing be an addition instead of a subtraction???



tina



:thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

I'm not going to quote everything from Lorileah, it seems redundant to, but I am amazed you can't understand our problem being attracted to someone who looks like a woman when we're heterosexual. And it's not just a dress, it's the breasts, the heels, the nails, the wig, the makeup, jewelry, perfume, everything. Come on, when you wear all that, you're trying to look like a woman!
I don't know anyone in their right mind that'd be more comfortable in a dress shoveling snow, but I say, if they want to, more power to them!
I never said a male changes into a female when they dress, I said they LOOK like a woman! Our sexual attraction is more than just to who the inner person is, it's also affected by sight, and smell.
I seriously doubt I could look like a man if I put on a plaid shirt and pair of jeans, my features are too feminine and I'm small.
And I don't "assume" a guy wants to be a woman if he likes feminine things, I never said anything of the kind.
You said I will always harbor these feelings...how can you presume to say how I will "always" be? I continually try to learn and grow and change, hence I do. I suggest you go back and re-read my posts and re-read your responses...you're putting words in my mouth that aren't there. For instance, I never said I have any insecurity about being bi, I'm not bi, I'm heterosexual, I stated that, I could care less what I am, I am just stating a fact...it's not for us to decide or change what we are, to say differently would be kind of an oxymoron, wouldn't it?
Assume my man is gay??? Where the blank did you come up with that? In the beginning when us GGs first learn our SO is a CD, we have QUESTIONS, which when answered, help us know what we're dealing with...however some of the CDers have lied for so long about it that their SO doesn't know what they can believe and what they can't...then the issue is not CDing but trust. And please don't assume you know what I want in a man or what I think a man is, you don't know me well enough to make such a presumption. No matter how gorgeous you are, for instance, I can tell you are a man.

Well if you think that wearing women's clothing
is all there is to a cd then you need to be set straight.

I can have on man clothes and be effeminate,
I can have on a dress and be masculine,
It doesn't matter what I wear
Its who's inside that counts.


Man
Woman
One Chromosome
That's all

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Originally Posted by pernille d

she quite often says after returning from buisness trips that she really misses a man . in drab i am quite a man and that she likes but i dont know how she will react to the woman in me.

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Does she say she misses A man or her man hun ?.......... there is a difference

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Originally Posted by Rebecca Jayne

Well if you think that wearing women's clothing
is all there is to a cd then you need to be set straight.

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Didn't say that...but it matters to some of us.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Rebecca Jayne

Well if you think that wearing women's clothing is all there is to a cd then you need to be set straight.

---

by the same token some CD's need to be set straight that wearing womens clothing does not make you a woman, it takes more than a set of clothes to be either gender :straightface:

Hi...
I see many details here that men dont understand about (( & i can say this )) as i am one . women . i am not one or the other yet both . & was born this way . a andro .
A woman see s a man & falls in love with that person . a real all male ..../ man ...not some one like me who never was a real ... man . yet i seemed to pass . from the body side of things . we Jos & i have three grown up youing adults . yet was never able to think as a male fully . or accept them . so there was allways a conflct the female & woman that i was & am . is a part of me . was allways there .
Jos married what she thought was a real male . hence going through a hell of what is going on here 8 year s of not understanding knowing & trying to work out what all this was & is about . ..
Put your self in Jos s shoes . & understand were she is coming from then .....may be .... you will understand what going through hell is like .
The psychologically ..mentalally .. & emotionally . detail of being a woman then have the rug ..pulled out from under you . then yes its bloody hard . to say the lest ... we v had 8 years of this . & yes it s stressfull & when Jos was down . i come to her as a women & give her my hand to lift her up . as she looks in to my eye s & see s a woman . no wonder Jos hit the deck . & damm hard ..
You have to see from her side what has & is happening to you as well as you . the changes . & dont try & fool your self you are the same person . that is utter bullshit . i know from experance . that you change . your wife s partner s & s o s will see the changes .
Your wife need s a man . not a dresser . or a male who dress s some times . what ever . this is & was not a part of the deal when you me or others married so think as a woman if you cant then just try . . then accept you may part .
We. Jos & i have been married for 34 years . & been together 36 we had our marriage anuuld . so if Jos wonts to leave then she is free. to do so & marry a real man . male .....
What i have been trying to say is i think both ways so know how jos was thinking after i came out to her & said i am a woman . just did not live as one . tryed to be male . yet if i had known i did sort of yet could not put it to gether . a bit slow . . was both m & f at that time it would have made so much of a differance . i would have understood my self better as well . some time s we cant explain our selfs then later on when we try . it seems to go wrong .
Not every woman can accept who we are when we change . or do things that seem strange . yet for some they accept with out ?? Jos accepts now yet its still hard . so we are just two women . living in our own home .
a lot of neat essays have been done here . & i do hope it works out for you . & others who may read our letters . who may have to go through this . all the best ......
...noeleena...

thanks for all your advice/ comments , it has made me think a lot

after 25 years in hideing i am going a bit nuts, i am not one that needs to be a woman 24/7 and things vary from just underwear to full dressing depending on my moods. i am happy with that and who i am , but it makes me very uptight keeping a secret,and the constant pressure should i or should i not tell her, My SO knows something is not right and wants me to be relaxed but i know the only way to help me is to tell her. i understand both sides of the story and lots of times think this is unfair as i see this as my problem and as soon as i tell her its not so much my problem any more, but becomes a problem for her . does it not just move the problem from one partner to the other !!!!

i am confused and really dont know what to do , the problem is i cant be selfish and think about my needs, i think about the affects on others as well so what ever i do i can only see a winner and looser but i jst cant except that ,

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pernille d

i am not one that needs to be a woman 24/7 and things vary from just underwear to full dressing depending on my moods. i am happy with that and who i am , but it makes me very uptight keeping a secret,and the constant pressure should i or should i not tell her, My SO knows something is not right and wants me to be relaxed but i know the only way to help me is to tell her. i understand both sides of the story and lots of times think this is unfair as i see this as my problem and as soon as i tell her its not so much my problem any more, but becomes a problem for her . does it not just move the problem from one partner to the other !!!!

i am confused and really dont know what to do , the problem is i cant be selfish and think about my needs, i think about the affects on others as well so what ever i do i can only see a winner and looser but i jst cant except that ,

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sweeitie you come across as a very caring partner and I have no doubt your wife thinks the same way, only you can judge whether you think your wife will accept this side of you or not ........... but already she knows something is very wrong, heck she may be thinking that you have a mistress ?

yes sometimes we as GG's feel we are dragged into the closet with you and sometimes that feeling is justified by the behavior of some CDERs, yes sometimes some of us GG's wish we didn't have the knowledge you give us ....... me I have always been "gimmee the truth and let me decide what I do with the knowledge", she may take it well or she may not but if you do decide to tell her, let her know about this site and the fact we have a GG only section where she can come talk to us GG's who are feeling how she is feeling or have felt how she is feeling, and that neither you nor her are alone in this, sometimes that knowledge helps a lot:)

:hugs: Sheila

You do sound like a very caring partner. As Sheila said, your wife already knows something's up. It'd be best if you could tell her and help her to work through whatever fears and questions she might have, the same as the rest of us GGs, direct her to this site and have her get her 10 posts in and apply to the FAB section...it'll help her to know she's not alone and there's others going through the same things and also see the role modeling of other more experienced GGs that have been at this a lot longer. You might think it's unfair to put her in the position of knowing this, but think of the converse...is it fair for her to not know what you are keeping her in the dark from, thus putting an invisible wall between the two of you that she undoubtedly senses and feels? Yes it would have been good for her to know from the beginning, but that's not an option now, instead, you have only here forward to live in and it'd be great if you could be open with each other and understanding...what a wonderful shared experience that would be!

I understand KayC's point. My wife and I have struggled with this until we came to a happy medium. KayC wants a man. by whatever her definition is. There's nothing wrong with that. Its what she wants. The clothing issue KayC talks about is real struggle for GG's because women wear certain clothing to get a man's attention. They know that and certainly we know that. That seems to be her issue. Her SO wants to dress and there's nothing wrong with that. Lorileah's comment about the double standard is true and real. However...sometimes the wants/needs of the people involved will clash. :2c:That's where communication and compromise come in. Best of luck KayC

Quote:

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Originally Posted by pernille d

she quite often says after returning from buisness trips that she really misses a man

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Quote:

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Originally Posted by Sheila

Does she say she misses A man or her man hun ?.......... there is a difference

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[SIZE=4]Sheila, I had the same question as soon as I saw this.. most would say "I miss MY man". Maybe reading too much into it but sometimes it can be a sign. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Lori and KayC have made some good points, even though it seems it has taken a turn to a more one on one discussion. Taking parts from both does help to understand the two sides of the story. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I do understand a woman wanting to be 'taken' by her man sexually and yes I could see where if that man was wearing sexy lingerie, etc would lessen the impact if a woman is straight. Kay gave good references to how a man may see a woman who is being masculine, especially when it comes to sexual attraction. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Pernille, whatever your decision will be, its like all things in life, expect the unexpected and understand the doors you open. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I took that chance but have to say, more to the story that ended the marriage. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]It is always nice to read all the relationships that include a GG that turned for the best when crossdressing was introduced. But for everyone that works, there is one that does not work out... So that leaves me a bit hesitant to believe that would happen for me at this time.. some of it is me, but some is 'where would that person be found?' [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]One thing for sure, if i do chose to continue dressing (like I have a choice :D), it is something that I would let known at the beginning, since it is unfair to hide it and then let it be known later as the relationship grows. Its understandable if you discovered those feelings later, but to come into a relationship, knowing but not telling is not fair. Sorry, my feelings so don't beat me up to bad.. :eek:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Thanks to all for commenting as it does help us all.. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Hugs,[/SIZE]

*still struggling with exactly what makes one a "man" or a "woman" other than physical genitalia that does not change w/o surgery*

And now I have to reconcile why a woman wants to be 'taken'...but a man cannot want the same thing. Ravage me...but be gentle. This is all so confusing

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

And now I have to reconcile why a woman wants to be 'taken'...but a man cannot want the same thing. R

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Lori this woman does not want to be taken, rather I and most of my friends that I have talked with agree that we are equal partners sexually in the relationship, sometimes "he" leads sometimes "we (the GF)" lead and in the relationship I know have with Debs sometimes "she" leads at other times nobody leads and we fall asleep :eek::eek::doh::doh::heehee::heehee:

Sheila now I am more confused...you mean all women are not the same in needs and wants? Somebody get me a rule book please

These are confusing things to keep up with on both sides. I wish our society didn't require men and women to be so opposite of each other. From early age men and women are separated and basically pulled into two different worlds. This makes sense to a point but this should be balanced out with a bit of insight into the other side. Judging by the fact that Dr. Phil dedicated an entire show to men who felt emasculated because they're no longer the "breadwinner" I think is evidence this insight isn't available to the masses yet.

In other countries where gender roles aren't so opposite of each other (aka more fluid), CD'ing and the like is more accepted. Not to mention a man can get away with wearing perhaps just a hairstyle or a garment to express his fem side. In our country (USA) this is not the case. Gender is either-or and that's it to most people. This could be why many feel they must go all out wearing everything fem from head to toe. This may also have to do with why sex change operations are done at such a high rate here. I don't have an issue with going all the way if that's what you feel you have to do. But I believe society is a major reason why a CD'r may feel they must wear everything from nails to perfume to officially feel feminine.

Just for the record, I prefer to dress head to toe fem because I'm comfortable with that. I go out in public very rarely as Shayna because I'm not at that comfort/confidence level yet. I have no interest in surgeries now, but attitudes can change throughout life.

I just think that if society was more fluid in their gender expectations here in the US, then CD'ing would be easier. Life may be easier if you're a man who just wanted to wear a skirt out to the mall one day, rather than a whole outfit with accesories. You wouldn't have to worry about passing and mastering the mannerisms to avoid harassment.

I don't think society is the only reason for these issues, but I think it's definitely a major influence.

this has turned into an interesting thread ,

i think my SO was just lonely,more so than normal, being away from her home,kids and me(who happens to be bed ridden after a foot operation)

we can go on for ever wondering and reading things into what she said and her inner meanings .but basically i think all she was trying to say was that she really missed me.

there is a huge difference in " misses her man to misses a man" but i know her and its just a light hearted way she looks and talks about things ,as we tend to tease each other about it some time. yes i would be worried if i knew she ment " a man" but she doen,t

Pernille, I am sorry to hear that you have waited this long to tell you wife! It will be tough, no question!

But this answer may help. I told my late wife BEFORE we married! Her first question was, "Do you want to be a woman?" I said, "No, I just like to dress like one!" Then she said, "Will you always remember you are my MAN, no matter what you are wearing?" I told her, "Yes, of course I will!" And I did so in many ways throught the 49+ years we had together! BTW, she was totally supportive of my CD activites! To the point that we wore matching white silk lingerie, which she picked out and bought, to our wedding! Just never your wife have any reason to question whether or not you are a man under those lacy panties!!:heehee:

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

*still struggling with exactly what makes one a "man" or a "woman" other than physical genitalia that does not change w/o surgery*

And now I have to reconcile why a woman wants to be 'taken'...but a man cannot want the same thing. Ravage me...but be gentle. This is all so confusing

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Am not sure who you're referring to Lorileah, it couldn't be me because I've never said that. I don't think it's merely the inside or merely the outside that makes someone seem like a man (or woman) to us, but maybe a combination of everything. That's one of the reasons I think it's hard for someone with an exterior that doesn't match their interior person...people mistake them for something they aren't. Maybe it'll just take time to work through all this...be patient with me, I've only known a couple of months, if that.

KayC...

I can't speak for Lorileah (although I think the two of us agree totally here!) but as for me, I fully understand that you would want the man you married! So does my wife, and I'm perfectly delighted to make sure she never forgets that the man she married is still here! I know perfectly well what she means when she looks at me and says she wants her man, and that doesn't necessarily mean it's a sexual content. Of the many things she has taught me in the last few years is that the thought patterns and response patterns of most women are different from that of men, and whether it's a generality or not, I know what her thoughts are about the issue because she's told me!

BTW, she also will invite Tina to visit for an evening as well, so I really do know the difference.

I do believe that some of us really are in the wrong body and will, therefore, eventually be driven to change that situation, and that must be discussed between married partners. For the rest of us who exist in both genders, and especially those of us with supportive spouses, there is nothing that we wouldn't do to make sure our devoted spouses know that they have devoted spouses, too! I sincerely hope you are in that situation as well, KayC.

Often her man, and sometimes her gf Tina.

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Originally Posted by Lorileah

Sheila now I am more confused...you mean all women are not the same in needs and wants? Somebody get me a rule book please

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Thank goodness you didn't say operator manual :rofl:

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Originally Posted by KayC

Am not sure who you're referring to Lorileah, it couldn't be me because I've never said that. I don't think it's merely the inside or merely the outside that makes someone seem like a man (or woman) to us, but maybe a combination of everything. That's one of the reasons I think it's hard for someone with an exterior that doesn't match their interior person...people mistake them for something they aren't. Maybe it'll just take time to work through all this...be patient with me, I've only known a couple of months, if that.

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It was directed to many here in general. I have tried to get you to look in a different light that just because someone wears something it does not make them the opposite gender yet that seems to be the sticking point in your mind on this. You are not alone several GG's throughout these threads have voiced the same opinion. It is something you need to work out for yourself. It is not far off the old "You wear a dress you must be gay" adage that I hope will someday go away. It is like all stereotypes, based on misinformation. (realize that 60+% of the people on here when we had polls stated they were straight, so the clothes didn't change their preference). It would be for you something that you would need to either relearn to ignore to be with your SO in a sexual situation. I understand your point. You are the one who worries about being "bi" if you accept the clothing. But be assured that the post above was directed at another stereotype, that women in sexual situations (and by association CD's not being men on this thread) must be submissive and want to be physically (and it was intimated) violently ravaged. I missed the boat here because for 40 years I have been working with the concept that men and women are equals. No one is to be "taken" unless that is what they want. We must get past these burned-in images that we must conform to something that is no longer a requirement to survive. Men no long need to hunt or kill. Women no longer NEED a male to insure their survival.

What I am trying to get is why, when some women talk, they say I want compassion, caring, gentleness in a man then turn around and want an animal who is brusque, selfish and mean. And when they get a man who likes softness and gentleness, they freak out and fear homosexual innuendos.

The GG's are outnumbered here so there won't be many responses I am sure. But I don't get it still. How do the clothes make me less "man"? I really want to know because I need to grow and change if I am doing it all wrong.

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Originally Posted by pernille d

there is a huge difference in " misses her man to misses a man" but i know her and its just a light hearted way she looks and talks about things ,as we tend to tease each other about it some time. yes i would be worried if i knew she ment " a man" but she doen,t

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[SIZE=4]Thank you for clarifing that, it can be a confused comment.. but understood now. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]As for Lori and Kay, its all confusing.. maybe the term is 'confused' dressing, not crossdressing.. :heehee:[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Guess i know in my heart, i long for that day i meet her who accepts me for me..but yet apprehensive in even venturing to go on the search.. Just content with dressing and going out when i can.. and supprting this site :D:daydreaming::)[/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Hugs,[/SIZE]

I wish I never found out...

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Originally Posted by Round Robin

I wish I never found out...

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[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Hi Robin, If you don't mind Robin, would you explain why? what changed? are you married or single? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]I'm learning about this and a gg's point of view is always helpful too.. [/SIZE]

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Originally Posted by KayC

I'm not going to quote everything from Lorileah, it seems redundant to, but I am amazed you can't understand our problem being attracted to someone who looks like a woman when we're heterosexual. And it's not just a dress, it's the breasts, the heels, the nails, the wig, the makeup, jewelry, perfume, everything. Come on, when you wear all that, you're trying to look like a woman!
I don't know anyone in their right mind that'd be more comfortable in a dress shoveling snow, but I say, if they want to, more power to them!
I never said a male changes into a female when they dress, I said they LOOK like a woman! Our sexual attraction is more than just to who the inner person is, it's also affected by sight, and smell.
I seriously doubt I could look like a man if I put on a plaid shirt and pair of jeans, my features are too feminine and I'm small.
And I don't "assume" a guy wants to be a woman if he likes feminine things, I never said anything of the kind.
You said I will always harbor these feelings...how can you presume to say how I will "always" be? I continually try to learn and grow and change, hence I do. I suggest you go back and re-read my posts and re-read your responses...you're putting words in my mouth that aren't there. For instance, I never said I have any insecurity about being bi, I'm not bi, I'm heterosexual, I stated that, I could care less what I am, I am just stating a fact...it's not for us to decide or change what we are, to say differently would be kind of an oxymoron, wouldn't it?
Assume my man is gay??? Where the blank did you come up with that? In the beginning when us GGs first learn our SO is a CD, we have QUESTIONS, which when answered, help us know what we're dealing with...however some of the CDers have lied for so long about it that their SO doesn't know what they can believe and what they can't...then the issue is not CDing but trust. And please don't assume you know what I want in a man or what I think a man is, you don't know me well enough to make such a presumption. No matter how gorgeous you are, for instance, I can tell you are a man.

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For some reason KayC, it's not hard for me to completely understand & agree 100% with what you've been saying all along, but I'm a MTF TS, & have been on both sides of the fence, but this argument just proves that Men really are from Mars & Women are from Venus... Just two worlds apart...Lol

Although this debate clearly shows they still do think like Men deep down..whether they put on a dress & heels or not.

But they will never Truly understand us, , So you matters well just talk to a brick wall, it's about the same hardness & you'll get the same results without the aggravation..:wall:

now I wonder why you think women think differently than men. Can I not think like a woman? Can a woman not think "like a man"? I know there are "jokes" about how women can't park and men can't choose fashion. As men we take those and let them roll off our backs because we are told that's what men do. But women take them to heart and get emotional. Both are learned and reinforced behaviors. See this whole thing just gets convoluted into learned and stereotypical behaviors. Why do people HAVE to be one thing or another?

Mars and Venus. Has anything in the last 20 years done more to bolster stereotypes? And how do the other 6 planets feel about that? (Or if it refers to Roman gods, the other gods?). Does Niya have it right in her signature? The TG;s are from Earth?

BTW I get what the GG's are saying here too, it is just that I don't think as things as black and white, especially when the black and white are required upon me.

Anyway, I am surprised the mods have allowed me to corrupt this thread so badly.

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Originally Posted by mscassey1963

[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4]Hi Robin, If you don't mind Robin, would you explain why? what changed? are you married or single? [/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]
[SIZE=4][/SIZE]

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I can't answer for Robin, but I can answer for me from when I discovered my ex was a CDER
I was at first devastated by the lies, it then caused ne to question the start of our relationship and how good the sex was then .............we had a great sex life at the beginning and it trailed of drastically after he moved in and then resurged for a time after I found out :sad:...........it made me question whether he found me desirable or whether it was because he dressed before we met and I "GOT" the left over excitement:sad: ............ it made me wonder what else I had missed in our relationship, so I started questioning everything about it, I questioned his motives for being with me, I questioned my motives for being with him, I looked at our relationship under the microscope and unfortunately he and I did not come up good from that examination :sad:

There is a lot more to the ending of that relationship and it has been documented by me in posts in the past, am I glad now I found out .... yes I am, I would have hated to have gone a few more years and then found out :straightface:

Because now I have trust problems. Because now I view him differently. I try not to but I do...

As soon as we found Tina, my wife started to explain to me what it is like growing up as a girl. The socialization does often mold the thinking, and unlike what many people erroneously believe, the brain functions of men and women have been mapped and they are NOT the same. There are fundamental wiring differences.

However...to try to answer Lorileah's question...yes, I do think all people can learn about how the other gender approaches life/problems/relationships. In fact, I have come to believe that crossing the gender boundries is nothing but beneficial when trying to understand the other gender, whichever direction. Often the differences are subtle, but there are differences.

For example, how many men will immediately assume that if a difficulty has arisen, the correct mode of action is to solve the problem asap and move on. My wife explains to me that women will often NOT want to solve the problem, but will wish to talk about it. Many men would consider this a total waste of time and get incredibly frustrated while considering the re-covering of old ground a waste. Knowing that the two genders may be coming at the issues from this two very different directions can be enlightening.

I still note that many men claim that it is not possible to understand how women think. Well, that's not true of course, but it points out that there are differences. Thiese differences can be understood and learned. I completely believe that those of us who attempt to understand how the other gender is mentally wired can do nothing but good for humanity.

just my :2c:

tina

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Originally Posted by suchacutie

...men will immediately assume that if a difficulty has arisen, the correct mode of action is to solve the problem asap and move on. My wife explains to me that women will often NOT want to solve the problem, but will wish to talk about it.

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that does explain a lot of why CD's think that their SO's either don't understand or don't accept them. If that is true the women are just trying to talk it out. Maybe with time they can talk themselves through to acceptance?

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I completely believe that those of us who attempt to understand how the other gender is mentally wired can do nothing but good for humanity.

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Bravo. I think we see eye to eye on that. Those who wish to learn, seek more information; those who don't use the excuse "you are just a man (woman). I will never understand you, you don't make sense to me." Me? I just want to understand at least from MY perspective because I will never have anyone else's life experiences. I can never really see the world through their eyes. So I ask questions, usually hard questions :) Thanks Tina

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Originally Posted by suchacutie

For example, how many men will immediately assume that if a difficulty has arisen, the correct mode of action is to solve the problem asap and move on. My wife explains to me that women will often NOT want to solve the problem, but will wish to talk about it. Many men would consider this a total waste of time and get incredibly frustrated while considering the re-covering of old ground a waste. tina

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Mmmmmm not sure that as a GG I or my friends would agree with you there .......... My friends and I believe that if a difficulty has arisen it requires fixing as soon as possible & we find that men tend to stand around looking at said problem from all sorts of different angles, then go over it again to see what they have missed, then talk about what could possibly go wrong in the mending of, and what actions they would take should they arise

in the meantime the women have gone in looked, picked up the tools and mended it themselves and are now on their third drink after having prepared a buffet for all present :D

if we are talking about discussing relationship problems men on the other hand in general (please note the word "GENERAL"), would rather run a damn mile, then stick their heads in the sand that discuss emotional relatuionship problems with their partners, and run twice as far and bury their heads twice as deep before discussing emotional/relationship problems with their mates in any depth .......... about the closest you will get ("in general") for them discussing it is "her indoors must be due on again, she is in a right mood" :brolleyes::brolleyes:

Please not I have made huge generalizations here, and the same can be said of some of us women :eek:

There are blokes who are good at talking, just as there are women who clam up when it comes to personal talking .... we are all different :)

Sheila,

Oh, this is so complicated, isn't it! I must admit my head is just so full of comflicting ideas about gender and thought. My wife is a very intelligent, highly educated woman who is as home in academics as she is when we are felling trees and planting crops. She's a terror with a sledge hammer and wedges! Everyone is an individual (me too :) ).

Having said that, there are general characteristics. I'm not making this up. There is a large literature of documentation about gender identity and gender characteristics. I just think we need to be aware of what is known by the broader community, and, if we are to be able to fit in (blend) as our other gender then we need to know what is generally expected of us.

I do think our actions, physical and emotional, send clues to those around us as to our gender identity, and the more we understand what is being perceived by others the better chance we have of fitting into the gender we are presenting.

There are of course women who don't like to "chit chat" (as my wife puts it), but many do, and it's an art I don't currently have! I also have tremendous trouble just talking about a subject without having to propose a course of action to solve the problem, but I'm working on it.

Bottom line, there are other modes of thought than just being a guy, and I want to learn what they are and be able to be comfortable in that environment. And that brings me back to the original thought of this thread. If you allow my premise that there are documented general modes of behavior for women in general, then there are general modes of behavior for men in general (again, there are exceptions, many of them). Thus, when a woman wants "her man", there are some expected norms. We guys don't have to slay the mastadon any more, but if we know our spouses well, we know what actions of ours comforts them, and I very much enjoy making my wife feel special and loved, as any gender!

tina