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I have seen this question tossed around in many threads so I decided to make it a thread for itself. The question is, why do so many of us have this great urge to "come out" of the closet? What not just stay undercover?
I don't have this urge but I have a simple answer for those who do: it makes everything much easier. No more paranoia, no more skulking around, no more flimsy excuses, no more mysterious disappearances, etc..
:2c:
Well, if i came out I wouldn't have to hide my cute outfit. I could hang it up in the closet and not leave it hidden and crumpled up.
For me the main reason to want to come out is that Stacey really is a very important part of me. Keeping her hid in the closet isn't good for either her or me.
One day when I feel ready she will come out.
Why come out ? I think it because we want desperately to be accepted and
loved for who we are.
This is a very timely thread for JoAnne, BECAUSE last night, JoAnne came out
to her biological GG sister for the first time. Why did JoAnne "come out" ? I
think it was because JoAnne cannot go own without letting her family know
what has been going own in her "brother's" life.
I will say that my GG sister accepted JoAnne completely and unconditionally.
It has made me so happy.
JoAnne Wheeler
I didn't have the urge to go out until just recently and I can tell you why I do it -
Beacuse it's totally #%@$% fun!!!
Going out has totally changed my life and attitude - I absolutely love it, dressing completely is much more enjoyable than I thought it would be. All those hours lost in beauty products!
Makeup counters!
Friendly & enthusiastic young SAs!
The wind in your skirt - ever ride a bike in a dress & heels? Try it!
Jewelry!
I could go on and on...
Ann / SS
To me, one of the hardest things about the CD life is the secrecy. I am out to my wife and a couple of discreet close friends but my children do not know. I find this a continual source of sadness because they do not really know their father - and my wife finds it a continual source of anxiety because she is terrified they'll find out!
So although I love my CDing self and am contented in where I am at present, it would complete my happiness if it were generally known and accepted.
SS - I think we're talking about "coming out", not "going out".Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtsuit
:battingeyelashes:
So sorry, I need to learn how to read, obviously.
I'm not 'out' yet either, none of my family or non-cd/ts friends know.
Ann / SS
I pick and choose who I reaeal myself to although in some ways I really don't care who finds out if it wouldn't affect me in my career.
Sometimes I get tired of having to hide this part of me, and lets face it we all crave acceptance of our peers and friends. This is a part of who I am. I am not hurting anyone, or am I trying to deceive.
It is a matter of degree. The Femme that lies within many of us here is so strong, it demands expression beyond the quiet moment. The girl within wishes to become the dominant prescence.
For myself, too much of my life that I value is wrapped around my guy side- my personal and family relationships, my hobbies, my career. To come out as CD/TG would so endanger my status that there is no desire to go beyond my quiet time.
Having said that, I do have more personnel freedom than many. My SO is embracing and accepting of my femme side and when I'm ready to go out fully en femme, the door is open.
Many here struggle to experience any facet of the CD life... and that suppression makes the girls within fight all the more for their freedom. If I were in my earlier marriage, with the self awareness I have now, I too would be dealing with much of the turmoil others give vent to on this forum.
Ruth wrote, "To me, one of the hardest things about the CD life is the secrecy."
That alone is stressfull and creates extraordinary demands. No matter what level of expression we individuals may need, when there is no accommodation, the internal pressure to be "out" is very strong.
Because I have a dream. A dream that one day all people will be able to wear what they like when they like (as long as they don't offend MY sense of propriety and decency). That one day I won't hear someone in McD's tell their son "No Jimmy that's a doll wouldn't you rather have a football?" (by the way Jimmy here's 30 grams of fat and salt that can increase your chance of obesity). A dream that we won't give men in Target whiplash when they try and steal a look as we walk by. I think that together we can make this dream come true.
If you plan on going out in public, I think coming out is inevitable. Hiding becomes more of a burden than the coming out process. Just my 2 cents.
Not necessary. You're a good looking girl - reading skills are optional.:GD:Quote:
Originally Posted by skirtsuit
I think the biggest thing is being something that you aren't. We pretend to be macho just so nobody will ever know. That is a terrible burden.
Eventually you just have to be true to yourself.
I came out to my wife and daughters for a variety of reasons.
1. I wanted to be honest about it. I hate to lie.
2. I got tired of keeping all those plates spinning. It was taking a mental tole on me.
3. I wanted to share this with the people I loved the most.
4. My wife thought I was having an affair with another woman so I had to...she didn't know I was the other woman.
5. I needed closet space to put my growing collection of clothes in. :)
There are probably a million more but that is all I have for now.
Kisses,
Allie
They are the best reasons. No more hiding, letting the SO know may even get you a shopping partner. It could backfire but it is better you let the SO know before you are caught. They always think you are decieving them when they find out on thier own.
I think that it is not a matter of coming out but rather finally just being yourself. The reason that I come out to people is because I can no longer not be me.
Though nobody specifically said it, those who are at the far end of the dressing spectrum have a dual (transgendered) identity--a kind of self-imposed schizophrenia. You know, let's see who am I now Betty or Bert? By coming out, they are still two but they could then be in either persona without much or any guilt.
Personally I have no wish to go out en femme, I have no wish to be a woman, I simply --at this point--enjoy the clothing. The puberty chemicals have long since dissipated I think. So I would not come out since it serves no point or need.
Stress can be extremely dibilitating so I would think no-one would wish to endure that for too long, though as we have seen coming out can have very negative consequences. It is a kind of double-edged sword.
Sorry to pee in the punchbowl, but I'm not out, and don't plan to be, anytime soon.
For most of us, crossdressing is sexually driven. It's part of our sex life. So why the great need to parade it for the whole world to see.
I can only speak for myself, but I prefer my kids remember me as "Dad". Not dad the crossdresser"!
I still have an interest in women, and crossdressing is a death blow to most relationships. For every woman who accepts it, a dozen don't.
For the truth and honesty crowd, who feel the need to come out to someone they are dating, do you tell a new girlfriend about all the women you've been to bed with, in order to "get it all out in the open"? Of course not. So why the need to tell them about your crossdressing?
This board is littered with teary stories from those who came out to their wives, and their wives took the kids and left. But it's a free country. Do whatever you want. There's a whole squad of "truthers" here, who will "be here for you". It won't be much comfort when the little woman files for divorce, and you're looking for a place to live. But "they" will be here for you.
I came out because frankly I was tired of being scared of people finding out. I was tired of having this big secret that I had to dance around, and frankly, I also wanted the freedom to wear what I want, when I want it. I didn't want to have to find excuses for why I chose to wear a skirt on a particular day, and such. and I was tired of feeling like I was putting up walls to isolate me from people, that I was denying a part of who I was from all but a rare select few.
And, finally, while I don't want to be an "activist" I realized that the more of us that come out, the more people will see us as we are, just another person who has a harmless, even if not entirely run of the mill, quirk. I want people who know me to see that I'm the same guy I always ways but I also wear women's clothes sometimes. I want people I meet from now on to just know, ok, this is something he does but he's just another person. And I want other crossdressers to see what I do and think "Hey, maybe I can do that too..." and so on.
I think this is a horrible analogy. You may not tell your new girlfriend about all the women you've been with, but there is also generally an understanding that both of you have had partners before, and if there haven't been any, that's likely something you *would* tell her at some point. There's a passive acknowledgement/acceptance of our partners' previous love life before we come around, so even if you don't bring out your black book and give play by plays, you *aren't* hiding something from them.Quote:
For the truth and honesty crowd, who feel the need to come out to someone they are dating, do you tell a new girlfriend about all the women you've been to bed with, in order to "get it all out in the open"? Of course not. So why the need to tell them about your crossdressing?
All the more reason to be open and honest from the beginning. Everything I read about spouses finding out, and from my own experiences talking with girls about it, the constant thing is that the deception has a lot more to do with the collapse of the relationship than the crossdressing does. It's a betrayal of trust to withhold such a massive part of who you are from the people you love.Quote:
This board is littered with teary stories from those who came out to their wives, and their wives took the kids and left.
Also, all the more reason for more of us to be out as we can. So that people can start to see us as being more common than they realize, and more normal than they realize so that when someone does find out that someone they know crossdresses, it might not be easy at first but it isn't insurmountable an obstacle.
I'm interested exclusively in women myself, and yes I know that having come out as a crossdresser will hurt my chances with a lot of women. Good, because I don't want those women anyway.
And for every woman that is for me, there's a billion who aren't. I don't care about the dozen who don't, I just care about the one. and since I've dated several who aren't part of your cited dozen, I think I'll be ok.Quote:
For every woman who accepts it, a dozen don't.
Im out to my wife. I tried many years ago to come out to my family and was laughed at,they thought it was a joke. something to laugh at. It pain's me not only because i cant dress around them,but because i am expected to put on a super masculin "show" for them and hide any physical and emotional attribute's of amber.
So why come out,cause it is a part of who you are. In my case the harder i tried to bury amber the harder she fought back to escape. I have tried to find a happy medium but it is proving tough not trying to talk to them again,i hate hiding.
I mean even if i was only able to express my self as amber thru action's of careing,loving,nurting. alas im gonna be recloseted deeper and more confused then last time if get the same responce. Both in witch Why i want to come out,And Why i can not
And "they" won't be there for your ex-wife. Who will be there for her, after you've decided to ruin her life in order to "be yourself".Quote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
For me, CDing is like an EXCITING DREAM, NOT about "who I am"!:eek:
Coming out, could QUICKLY turn it into a NITEMARE, for me!:doh:
If I came out I....
1. Can crossdress more often.
2. Can share a big part of me with all my friends.
3. Can find that guy or girl who likes the fact that I crossdress easier.
Whoa hang on there pardner, you are dead wrong on that. Some may be, more may have started there but nu uh...no sex for a lot on here. Even less for most the married people if you read the boardsQuote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
That says you don't try and raise your children to be open, tolerant and caring. You reinforce the old dressing is bad myth. Why can't they know Dad the human? Dad the guy who taught me to stand on my own two feet and fight for what is right and fair?Quote:
I can only speak for myself, but I prefer my kids remember me as "Dad".Not dad the crossdresser"!
the majority here do also with over 50% who are "straight"Quote:
I still have an interest in women,
Once again because of a stereotype and lack of honesty in the community. The hiding and then asking forgiveness for lying years and years and years. Most? again? lets say some or a few.Quote:
and crossdressing is a death blow to most relationships.
because that is past and over ( I hope) and crossdressing is current and still part of who you are. Simple ain't it? It is also more fair to allow the woman a chance to either say she doesn't mind or no she can't reconcile this at this time.Quote:
For the truth and honesty crowd, who feel the need to come out to someone they are dating, do you tell a new girlfriend about all the women you've been to bed with, in order to "get it all out in the open"? Of course not. So why the need to tell them about your crossdressing?
There are thousands of people on these boards, usually less than 10 a month lose their spouses. Some find the love of their lives each month also. In today's society, it does not take much for one partner to bale out. Irreconcilable differences I think they call it. More often than not it is "I found someone more fun and I don't need you anymore." Off to the next one who they tire of and guess what? He didn't dress but he had another "problem" they could not deal with. Over half the marriages in the US end in divorce, I don't think all those guys were wearing dresses. Also calling her the "Little woman" is sort of well, rude and misogynistic IMHO. She is your partner, friend, spouse, lover, equal. And men wonder why women leave?Quote:
This board is littered with teary stories from those who came out to their wives, and their wives took the kids and left. But it's a free country. Do whatever you want. There's a whole squad of "truthers" here, who will "be here for you". It won't be much comfort when the little woman files for divorce, and you're looking for a place to live. But "they" will be here for you.
But you are right, you are pissing in the punch bowl, and that is sad that you have such an outlook that you find this to be a good thing
I can agree with that, but I think the TS group is a small minority. Anyhow, if you really are TS, you will almost invariably come out, like it or not, so the question really doesn't concern that group.Quote:
Originally Posted by docrobbysherry
I came out so I could finally become myself. And I adore it
I would love to "comeout".
But the place I work, the fed law not standing, it is only words that protect the Corp from a law suite.
It would be a living hell trying to keep this job, with some luck my pickup would last a week before it would be totaled in the parking lot.
Sure I could get another job... But with five weeks vacation, 12 sick days, 4 floaters, +other. Good pay, and job securty, hard to replace.
But on the family side I am out, friends not so, but due to my work hrs not to many stop by.
If I could learn to type, maybe a temp job in a office?
.
Good point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
Some things are better left unsaid and very often that is the fairest thing to do. You are so concerned about women, yet you advocate behavior that will in many cases destroy their lives. I think this is a matter for each of us to sort out privately, depending on the circumstances. We've got everything on here from teenagers at home to retired grandparents and everything in between, and each case is complex. We cannot arbitrarily decide what is "fair".Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
:2c:
I came out to my best friend and my ex(both women). Both said they wish I would have told them sooner. They both told me not to tell anybody else. This would make my life a lot harder. They know others in my life would not be as understanding and loving. I live alone and don't have any children, so this works for me. Both have taken me shopping and shown me a lot of love and support. At this point in my life I'm happy with my cding stage. My closet is just fine.
I'm sorry but what a horrible sentiment. "Ruin her life," seriously? Do you loathe yourself and your crossdressing that much? and how dare you put "be yourself" in quotes as if it is such a trivial and useless thing. I really find it reprehensible how much you sit in judgement over the people who have had the courage to come out and have had to deal with the repercussions. I don't think anyone comes out on a lark, and if someone decided to do it they probably had a pretty good reason to do so.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheidelmeidel
If you want to stay in the closet, and you feel you have legitimate reasons for wanting to do so, that's great, then do it and be happy with your decision, but don't spit on people who knew they weren't happy and had to do something about it. Everyone isn't the same, and it's really kind of crappy for you to come on this board and shoot fireballs at the people who have come out as if they're somehow bad people who are selfish. How happy do you really think their marriage was before they came out if they were keeping secrets about themselves from their partner?
And if someone did come out, and their marriage fell apart, do you really think they need you to dig the spike in that little bit deeper with your anonymous pot shots from behind a screen name? You think they haven't already heard it a million times from their family, their wife's family, her friends, etc. Why do it here, the one place where a crossdresser should absolutely be able to come to in order to get support and compassion.
This whole sentiment of it ruining the woman's life though, that really bugs me to see it coming from people who crossdress themselves. How are we ever going to expect the world to see that what we do isn't wrong and should be accepted if we can't be at ease with it.
Again, I say, whoa. Fair is fair. As you point out we cannot arbitrarily decide what is fair that is up to the person whose life is being changed. It isn't "fair" to get into a relationship, where the spouse has expectations, and then drop a bomb on them. They have invested time and emotion into the relationship. That is their time and emotion, not yours, that they have used to build what they see as a solid foundation. The people who have already arbitrarily decided to supress this information have already arbitrarily decided what they think is "fair".Quote:
Originally Posted by sheidelmeidel
Yes, I am concerned about the women. When you hide this information, you are taking the control of their lives away from them. They are along for the ride, blissfully enjoying the scenery until you decide to take your 300slc off road without warning. You didn't say "Hey lets go for a drive and sometime in the future I am going change direction." No you said "hop in, it will be beautiful (right up until I push you from the car." I still have trouble believing that so many people here who want everyone to accept them, hide that very part and then throw it out like a red flag. "Take me as I am or else!" and when the woman chooses the "Or else" part they are stunned. Shocked that she didn't see it coming. Shocked that they just didn't embrace this with full open arms.
If you kept this from your spouse until you had children and grandparents at home then the fair thing is for you to not dress and not bring this out at this point. It may not seem fair to you, but you made that decision when you asked your wife to marry you. You can live with it now, that is fair.
.Quote:
They are along for the ride, blissfully enjoying the scenery until you decide to take your 300slc off road without warning. You didn't say "Hey lets go for a drive and sometime in the future I am going change direction." No you said "hop in, it will be beautiful (right up until I push you from the car." I still have trouble believing that so many people here who want everyone to accept them, hide that very part and then throw it out like a red flag. "Take me as I am or else!" and when the woman chooses the "Or else" part they are stunned. Shocked that she didn't see it coming. Shocked that they just didn't embrace this with full open arms
I agree with you in some regards, and I think we both seem to agree on the idea of being open about it up front (not meaning first date but rather before/as things get serious) but one thing to consider is that no marriage/relationship follows a straight path. That's part of the the point, isn't it? To have someone to grow with and change with and meet the world with.
You're right, to just dump this on someone is a harsh thing to do, especially if they've been living with you in their lives for a long time with no idea. But there's more options than just the two extremes of either having been open when you first got together, which is impossible to re-do if you're already with someone, or just never dressing because it isn't fair to them. This second one is hardly an option because as anyone who has ever tried and failed to purge can attest, it can actually be worse in the long run in regards to emotional well-being.
People make major life changes all the time in relationships, new careers, new hobbies, even moving to new cities, and they make it work. It is possible for someone who wasn't comfortable enough with their self when they originally got married, to eventually get to the point where they are at peace with it. And with that, just like with the other examples I cited, they have to remember that their marriage is a partnership. So when this major life change is happening, they have to work through it with their partner, and give their partner the compromise and tools they need to work with them on it. Things like counseling and giving their partner time and resources to understand them, rather than just dumping it on them and saying "accept me or it's over" spring to mind.
In the case of a crossdressing spouse coming out, the majority of the heavy lifting falls onto the crossdresser, because they have had decades of time to come to terms with information that is just now being presented to their partner to digest. However, to be quite blunt, some of the responsibility is still on the partner to show that the "better or for worse" part of the wedding vows mean something to them.
:iagree::iagree: Could not have said it better, thank you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
We come out for a number of reasons as one can read in this thread. I came out to my SO when we first started dating because I did not want to continue to lie to my partner anymore as I had been to my other partners for years. I have yet to come out to my adult children but if they were to find out I will be open about it with them. Besides my SO I have come out to other individuals who are a part of my life this given me freedom to be my fem self when with them although my personality is not very different in male mode either just with less feminine flare. I do go out in public often and enjoy that liberation as well.
That sounds like a cop-out, but it is the fact. My wife and I discovered Tina together, so there was no "coming out" but more of a "discovery". Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone else needs to know. First of all, I am a very private person and I have no interest in explaining my personal feelings to anyone but my wife. Secondly, I've recently seen some friends act in a terrible manner having seen two drag queens heading to a performance. Their condemnation was startling! I'm pretty sure that I can do more to change their attitudes without their knowing my personal business.
I view my feminine self as a deeply personal part of me. Both my wife and I are very interested in protecting Tina...my wife has used those very words.
And why is my wife in a different category from the rest of humanity? She's my wife.
tina and him!
Perhaps this will sound like a fake story to you; I don't really care. I'm a paper pack-rat and could (given sufficient time) pull out the receipts and get doctor's reports and testimony from my wife and relatives to prove what I say. Oh yeah, and I have some date-stamped pictures too.Quote:
Originally Posted by sheidelmeidel
6 years and 11 months ago (to within a day), I suddenly got extremely sick. I'd been under a quite high stress load, and when my tasks were finished, I didn't just get a little tired, I had what in the old days would be called a "Nervous Breakdown". I was barely functional for the next year, but had no idea what was wrong with me: I'd gone to a doctor within 6 weeks and he put me on his wait-list saying he could take me "in 2 to 3 months", and I put my trust in him... I was still on his wait list a year later. Meanwhile, I was in terrible shape, collapsing from exhaustion 45 minutes to 90 minutes after I woke up, rarely making it to work, rarely able to get myself out the door, unable to visually focus on the horizon, unable to initiate anything, with a temper so short that half of a word from my wife was enough to make me furious. And I had no clue at all -- not until about this time 6 years ago, when I was bored and looking for anything interesting in the paper, and happened to read the requirements for a clinical trial that was starting up, and matched 11 of the 12 possible symptoms where matching 2 to 3 was enough to qualify you for the trial. The clinical trial was related to clinical Depression: so I finally had a name for what I was suffering from, major Depression.
Now it is literally impossible to understand major Depression unless you've had a taste of it yourself. After-all, "what's so hard about" (say) just taking some dirty dishes from the counter and putting them in the dish-washer? If you haven't Been There and Done That, then if you can't/ won't do something as easy as that, you're just being laaaazy. Those who have suffered from Depression will, however, understand when I say that when I approached the counter (after postponing the task for 6 days), the closer I got, the more I felt like throwing up.
Depression isn't just "you are somewhat unhappy at your life circumstances": Depression is a serious chemical imbalance in the brain that can lead to all kinds of problems. For example for me it was accompanied by major panic attacks. "Panic" is an often misunderstood medical term: it isn't phobia, it isn't running and hiding because of a fear that one is conscious of: instead it is any time that your mental activity manifests in physical illness. For me it meant spending literally hours a day on the toilet (gastro-intestinal effects are the most common panic symptom, affecting 30% of panic suffers... but rarely for as many hours a day as it was affecting me.)
When I did finally get in to see (a different) doctor close to 14 months after my initial collapse, the doctor looked at me, pushed briefly on my skin and watched the return to colour as the blood flowed back to the area, and informed me that without question I had been suffering from Depression for not just a year, but for at least 5 years before that, probably longer. He was looking at how yellow my skin was, which was a function of my cortisone level, which was so high that my brain must have been fighting with itself for a minimum of 6 years by the time I saw him. (In retrospect, knowing what to look for, we can date the onset to at least 16 years before present -- that is, at least 9 years before my collapse.)
The doctor put me on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication: between those two, I was at least able to get to work -- but I was still severely sick.
And then after being on medication for 6 months, I discovered that I was a cross-dresser: I had, from time to time, in the years previous, put on some of my wife's things "to see how they look" so I could shop better for her (I loved shopping for clothes for her), but it wasn't until 5 years ago that things clicked in my mind and I realized that I wanted to wear women's clothes... in public! By that point, I'd already been together with my wife for 9 years.
For various reasons, I did not tell my wife immediately, but within 3 weeks I was out in public in a skirt in a major mall, without even any kind of wig (but with some lipstick, probably): something that a number of the members here haven't been able to bring themselves to do in 40+ years of knowing about their cross-dressing. I joined the local cross-dressing club within 3 months of realizing I was a cross-dresser (would have been a month sooner but for accidents of communication timing).
And what I found was that cross-dressing was one of only two things that I could actually initiate and plan and drag myself out the door for, and that within about 3/4 of an hour of getting out the door dressed, that the cloud would lift off my mind, I would be able to focus and think in long coherent stretches, and my feelings that "life is never going to get better!" would fall away. Cross-dressing was, in short, to me, a better "medication" by far than anything to be found in a pharmacy.
Years later, what we (my doctor and therapists) have come to understand is that I was almost certainly born with an unusual brain, and that my brain has been in gender conflict with itself since age 5 at least (that is, we can trace back incidents and behaviours at least that far.) When I was younger and more resilient and had less responsibilities, my brain used to be able to compensate -- but under the heavy stress I had at work and in some other areas of my life, it stopped being able to deal with the situation.
You might be wondering what this all has to do with "ruining the life" of a spouse by coming out. The answer to that is this: that as long as I did not come out, the brain conflict remained and intensified rapidly, and if I would have kept my cross-dressing hidden, I *would* have collapsed again, and probably would have lost my job, with it not being clear that I would ever again have been in a state to take on another job that required high intellectual functioning. I might have been able to handle stock-boy... if the company was forgiving about not always being able to get to work within 3 hours of the scheduled time. Even with the medication, I would have been left pretty much in a state where my wife had to take care of me as a sick and probably fairly unpleasant person.. "fight or flight" reactions. The alternative was to acknowledge my gender differences and deal with them openly and wear the clothes as I needed to wear -- and by so doing, heal into an unusual but functioning person.
Thus you can see that if I had remained in the closet, my wife's life would have been ruined even more surely than would be the case upon coming out. A secret kept locked inside me that was making me sick was something my wife could not have coped with, as she would have been missing essential information about what was really happening. The secret revealed... it isn't the happiest of things in her life, but it can be adapted to.
I have a couple of GG relatives whose lives are absolute messes, who are still being emotionally abused by their NPD (Narcistic Personality Disorder) husbands more than a year after separation, ex's-to-be that retain their hold by refusing to settle financially or emotionally nor to do anything about making the breakup official so that the GG's can get on with their lives.
Me... I go to work, I pay all of the joint bills (except the cell phone), I do what I can to help my wife with her very sick mother, I hold my wife tenderly and comfort her... and I happen to wear borderline women's clothes much of the time. It isn't always easy for her, but some compromise in a relationship is a big difference compared to having your life "ruined" (e.g, like my unfortunate relatives' lives have been.)
It's not relevant to me, but I don't suppose you meant that. Theoretically I agree with you, but it just doesn't always work out that way. People change with time and sh-t happens, as a previous post mentions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
I think it's quite common for someone to get married at a young age and think that their CD'ing, assuming it has already become manifest, will disappear with marriage. And yes, it may go into remission for years subsequently. But when you get older, and the stress of middle age comes along, and your sex life with your wife isn't what it once was, the old urges surface again, and then you're in a pickle - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Dressing up might relieve your stress and improve your marriage - but if your wife finds out, that might destroy it. No two situations are alike.
Huh? You talking to me? Doesn't sound like it. You've turned everything I said completely upside down. You saw one phrase you didn't like and went off on a rant that has nothing to do with my remarks.Quote:
Originally Posted by JiveTurkeyOnRye
Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution here.
If you are TS or transitioning, then at some point you will need to come out. But if you are just recreational CDing, I see no need to flaunt it or come out. It's not always about you.
Consider this. Even if your wife or SO accepts for the time being, many will be quietly making plans to leave, or considering their options. How many posts do we read in here, about "She seemed to accept for a while"? If years down the road, they decide on a divorce, the CDing will surely be brought up, or be used in a custody battle, even if it's not the main reason for the breakup.
If you come out to your kids, they will tell other kids, or their teacher at school. Other kids will tell their parents. While it's not unlawful to crossdress, many of your unenlightened neighbors might consider you a sex offender. Once the genie is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. So I would certainly give it a lot of thought, before putting yourself in such a vulnerable position. You need to consider all the possible complications, and not just fantasize about sitting around the house in your nylons and heels in front of the wife and kids, or wearing a mini skirt to the family reunion.:doh:
I will try and rephrase this one more time. Even if the reason stated OUTLOUD in the world is "He dresses like a woman" there is much more under that when it comes to divorce. It is the selfishness, the attitude, the lack of sensitivity...it rarely is just the clothes. I have to love all the people here who believe that women have an agenda. That they sit and plot a way out of every relationship and just wait to pounce at the smallest reason. It isn't just one sided you all. There is more than the dresses. It is something often many things that you do that leads to the divorce.
As long as we, yes I said we, as a community continue to believe that we are bad people who are somehow "touched in the head" then yeah, your neighbors will buy that too and the teacher (who could not give a plug nickel as long as your kids don't look abused) because he/she only wants your kids to get smarter and advance to the next class not what you are wearing at home. You keep seeing the boogey man behind every corner you will never get anywhere.
Come out, don't come out, the world will continue to spin (for at least another two years or so). But as long as YOU believe you are wrong so will everyone around you. If you want to stay closeted and one day your wife finds you dancing in your thong and she leaves, it isn't because of what you wore, it is because you didn't warn her ahead of time. But don't come back on here and cry because she left. You had your chance, you blew it, you kept hiding and lying. Look in the mirror. Are you a bad person? I didn't think so. Why do you keep hiding then?
I saw a phrase/sentiment you repeated in different posts in this thread. Maybe you should re-read what you wrote because if you think what I said wasn't relevant to what you've been saying, you have very much misrepresented your position in this thread.Quote:
Huh? You talking to me? Doesn't sound like it. You've turned everything I said completely upside down. You saw one phrase you didn't like and went off on a rant that has nothing to do with my remarks.
and that's the point. You seem to want to apply how you feel to everyone else. Personally I don't care if you ever come out. Do what makes you happy, but the way you trivialize the reasons people come out when they do, it's just closed minded and arrogant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
and people have given you reasons why they did feel the need to come out.Quote:
But if you are just recreational CDing, I see no need to flaunt it or come out. It's not always about you.
Melinda, do you not see how hyperbolic and insulting that last phrase is? I mean holy Moses do you really think the people who came out while married are doing it to wear nylons and heels in front of their kids or just to wear skirts to the family reuinion? Seriously? Coming out isn't a trivial decision for anyone. Again, YOU may have no qualms about being closeted. YOU may feel that hiding this from your SO is a lesser of two evils. This is not the case for all of us, I prefer to be honest.Quote:
You need to consider all the possible complications, and not just fantasize about sitting around the house in your nylons and heels in front of the wife and kids, or wearing a mini skirt to the family reunion.:doh:
The thing is, I didn't quote all of your post to save on space, but you say "might" a lot. This *might* happen. This *might* happen. That's fear talking, that's Resistance. I used to feel the same way. The difference between your mindset and that of those of us who came out, is that we'd rather be open and roll with the punches and know who we are than live a lie. I tried it your way and it didn't work for me. I'm glad it does for you, and I hope it continues to.
Great post Lori, thankyou
I will repeat bits of your post again :D
think they gonna listen to this part highlighted ?Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
YUP, so true
hey girl u beating a dead horse, it has to be all about the cding .... "Don't it"Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
errrrrrrm yup AVEB is what I am:DQuote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
*spewing my punch everywhere!* You did what? :Angry3:Quote:
Originally Posted by Melinda G
I might can respect the spirit of what you're saying here, but I could never do that to my kids. And for all your principle -- and it is admirable -- what about the principle of protecting your kids from all the confusion and s**t that will rain down on their young heads cuz dad's a "pervert"? There is a big difference between being willing to take the hits yourself and insisting that your kids follow you into that kind of fray. There's nothing wrong with teaching our kids to stand for what's right, but there's nothing wrong with giving them a traditional dad, either. Ask them what they want and I betcha most choose the latter every time. Maybe we should have been thinking about all this before we had kids, not after. Maybe a case can be made for coming out after your kids are grown and out on their own (I couldn't, but maybe your situation is different), but while they're young and still dependent on you, I say you dealt the hand, now play it out.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
I understand the point you're making, but to me, 10 a month is a horrifying number.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
Oh yeah I forgot the we are perverts rule. Silly me. Lets reinforce that some more and not educate.
I think I have had enough of this thread. You all want to keep the status quo. As I said as long as we think of ourselves as wrong we will be wrong. Lets not try and break any molds.
Lucky I did then .............. because before I moved my 12 year old (he was 12 then) down here he had met both Debs and Male debs, he was asked if hew wanted to move down here ...... he couldn't wait ............. he was devastated when at one time it looked as if Debs and I were not going to be tog (long story no need to repeat it here)... he asked to speak to her and it was through his intervention that things got cleared up ............. there again I have a child who is amazing, he looks beyond the outer person a manages to see the good that is there, both Debs kids and my other two kids know about Debs (they are adults and leading their own lives).Quote:
Originally Posted by sherri
My 13 yr old (he had a birthday since we moved) amazed both of us one day when we picked him up after a late school session (he stayed back for an hour to study) .... Debs and I had been out for the day and rather than dash home to change, we agreed for her to remove her wig, earrings, and put on a denim jacket and a cap, so that if any of his mates glanced in the car all they would see was MR D to all intents and purpose, after he settled in the car he said "HI DEBS" .... MR D said sorry I didn't want to look like Debs in case any of your mates saw me .......... HE REPLIED "I don't care if they do, it is none of their business, you are a great person and if they can't get past looks then that's their problem not ours" ............ note the phrase "NOT OURS"
Our hand has been dealt and we are playing it :)
By being honest with them about something that is an undeniable part of you? No person can ruin another free persons life unless the other person allows them that power. Our experience with any matter, a great session of lovemaking or having just been fired is always subject to our interpretation and what we decide to do with it. One person can experience that event in a completely different way than another. Everything is always about any individuals personal experience with the event, nothing else. At the most fundamental level that is what is always happening.
Life is difficult at best many times, and we each decide our path. If your partner is truly committed to the relationship with you, there should be an expectation of hope when coming out. If the SO just clean rejects it completely and/or wants to just walk away I seriously question the health of that relationship previously.
Oh, and FWIW, I suspect the original poster had mal intent from the beginning with the tone of the comment. I think it should have been deleted by admin, as it just seems inflamatory from the get go to me. I believe that is evidenced from the replies from a good number of thinking people here. Poster wasnt really looking for respectful back and forth or info. Just a degrading off hand series of comments
Lorileah, the unfortunate truth that many of us share is that we've been told all our lives that we are "touched in the head". It is very very difficult for many of us to get past that.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
I could reply with equal sarcasm, but I'll try to resist and reply only by noting that you failed to address the points I raised, and by asking if you have young children of your own? As for the cause of enlightenment you are espousing, our particular exchange isn't the alpha and omega of such a large issue, but rather only one very important portion having to do with protecting innocent children from stigma and humiliation, not to mention the likelihood of financial hardship, marital discord and a host of other problems.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lorileah
I said it once and I'll say it again: there's a big difference between being willing to take on the dragon yourself and demanding that your loved ones, especially innocent kids who trust you to protect them, join the battle. Not all draftees are willing soldiers, you know.
That is not to say, however, that I do not do what I can to combat prejudice. In fact, I dare say that unless you are completely out of the closet, I probably do as much as you for the cause.
Jim, when I used the term "pervert", I did not mean that as a reflection of how I feel about myself, but rather how society views us. I guess I assumed that was understood. My bad, perhaps.Quote:
Originally Posted by Slim Jim
I wish I was brave enough to come out. I am really getting tired of the feelings of shame. The shame has lead to me purging several times. I think life would be a lot simpler if I came out. Those who except me will except me and those who will not will be out of my life. But still I am not brave enough to make it happen.
Has this thread ever taken on a life of its own! wow!
I must admit that I think there is nothing wrong with keeping my femininity private from everyone EXCEPT my spouse. With her I vowed to share everything and I will keep my promise.
I never promised to share every feeling and personal persuasion with my child, my relatives, or my co-workers. In fact, the less personal stuff I share with them, the better, and 99% of it has nothing to do with CDing. Ok, surely I share with my child at an appropriate level, but what is shared is between my wife and me, and no one else.
If anyone wants to discuss or display their personal life, including their feminine self, that's great! I choose not to and I don't see why that decision is at all incorrect, just as I think that anyone who does has the perfect right to do so!
tina
This thread should be closed due to the malicious intent of it's author