I feel transgender but don't want any operations. Is this a thing?

After a lot of soul searching I finally realized I might be transgender and not just a man who likes dressing. I feel like I want to be a woman. Ive been dressing more and more around my friends and at home and it just feels right. But I don't want to lose my manhood totally. I still identity partially as a male though these days, especially as my working self. Because I still identity as a male I dont think I want to have any procedure that would prevent me from being able to pass as a man. So I dont want breast augmentation, FFS, HRT, or GRS. The only thing I think I want right now is electrolysis because Im not overly attached to my beard growing abilities. (Though I think I do look really good as a guy with a bit of five-o-clock shadow.) With electrolysis it would really help me look more feminine without losing my ability to pass as a man.

I did some googling on "non-op transgender" and it does seem like a lot of transgender women don't want GRS. But what does seem more unusual is to not want HRT or breasts. I feel weird in that I feel comfortable being an almost totally non-op transgender woman. I dont worry about passing really. I just want to own my current body and make it work as best as possible while not giving a shit as much as possible. If that means I will likely never pass as a ciswoman so be it. But I think a lot of confidence could make up for this.

I think technically I might be bigender or Two Spirit or dualgender or whatever because I dont feel 100% a man and a dont feel 100% a woman. Somewhere in between. And im ok with that. But I feel like within the trans community there isn't a whole lot of room for people like me and I worry that it'd be wrong of me to adopt the term transgender for myself. But I just dont feel like a crossdresser anymore. It feels like more than that.

Rachel - you describe a state of being that I think many of us can relate to. It seems like you are being pulled between the poles of "male identified CD" on one end and "fully transitioned TS" on the other. There is a lot of ground in between. The most important thing to realize is that you get to decide who you are. You also don't have to commit for life to any particular identity. Who you are right now, today, is what matters most. Live your life however feels best to you!

Lucy

Rachel, if one reads between the lines, it appears that you are asking if this is OK. No one here is authorized to answer that question because you are the one to answer it. If you are comfortable with where you are, then good.

Lucy, Laura, thanks, those are both good bits of advice. It's typical to want to be validated by some community through some kind of official diagnosis or categorization - to feel like you are just part of the normal variation of the human population, that there is some term created and accepted by others that uniquely captures my gender identity. But Laura, you're right. I am the ultimate authority on my own gender identity - the community cannot authorize my identity for me, that's something I need to do for myself. I can't help but seek validation from the transgendered community but I also seek understanding, explanation, and knowledge that I'm not alone.

You are definitely not alone.

You get to live your own life..Don't make it complicated.. You can live how you want, you can dress how you want, and nobody but yourself gets to decide..

Its easy to understand if you consider that a transsexual mtf person is a woman.

You are or you are not a woman. Transsexuals get these surgeries because they are women. Transsexuals get these surgeries (and HRT) because they suffer soul crippling gender dysphoria and those procedures literally can cure it.

You feel you are not a transsexual so what's the worry?
Why are you comparing yourself to transsexuals?

I'd be wary if i were you spending too much time thinking about transsexuals and how you compare to them.
Just present as you wish and its all good.

I can relate Rachel. I am coming to terms with my place on the "trans spectrum". And since "trans" is Latin for "across" or "cross", I have always taken "transgender" to mean "across the gender line". How far across is entirely up to the person crossing.

I feel the folks who only identify as CD dance on the very edge of the line, but because they present either in private or public as contrary to their birth or identified gender they technically qualify as "transgender" by the strictest of definitions. Everything else is politics. I prefer not to be political, but I may make some enemies with this post.

Ultimately, do it if it makes you happy, and under no circumstances should you do if it does not! You are the one who lives in your own skin and within the confines between your ears, no one else. You are here because you have accepted that much. Don't be defined by anyone else if the definition does not fit, be whomever you choose/were chosen to be. Even destiny can be thwarted, but it hurts like Hades own ball-sack to do so.

Choose, do not allow yourself to be chosen for.

Ok, TLDR. Sorry for the rant. Love yourself first.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

You are definitely not alone.

You get to live your own life..Don't make it complicated.. You can live how you want, you can dress how you want, and nobody but yourself gets to decide..

Its easy to understand if you consider that a transsexual mtf person is a woman.

You are or you are not a woman. Transsexuals get these surgeries because they are women. Transsexuals get these surgeries (and HRT) because they suffer soul crippling gender dysphoria and those procedures literally can cure it.

You feel you are not a transsexual so what's the worry?
Why are you comparing yourself to transsexuals?

I'd be wary if i were you spending too much time thinking about transsexuals and how you compare to them.
Just present as you wish and its all good.

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Im mainly comparing myself to transgendered people more generally but I also can relate to transsexuals because transsexuals typically want some kind of procedure(s) done to make them more feminine. Right now I only want one procedure done (electrolysis). But it's still wanting at least one feminization procedure. This seems distinct from crossdressers who want zero procedures done.

Is all dysphoria necessarily "soul crippling"? I think I have from a very mild form. For example, I don't like my blue beard shadow after I shave - so I want electrolysis. But my penis causes me no dysphoria at all. I have mild dysphoria about breasts but wearing a bra and padding makes me feel happy enough that I dont want to sacrifice the ability to be able to pass as a man if I want to (which I do, especially for my worklife). I think dysphoria is not an all or nothing phenomenon. I think it comes in degrees and I just have a mild form.

You said you either are or are not a woman. Is this so black and white, so clear cut? What about bigenderism? I think you can be a man and a woman at the same time but it doesnt have to be a perfect 50/50 ratio. The ratio can be variable too.

Don't make it complicated? Gender is a complicated thing! There's a whole field of complex gender studies.

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Originally Posted by ShayLeigh Dominique

I can relate Rachel. I am coming to terms with my place on the "trans spectrum". And since "trans" is Latin for "across" or "cross", I have always taken "transgender" to mean "across the gender line". How far across is entirely up to the person crossing.

I feel the folks who only identify as CD dance on the very edge of the line, but because they present either in private or public as contrary to their birth or identified gender they technically qualify as "transgender" by the strictest of definitions. Everything else is politics. I prefer not to be political, but I may make some enemies with this post.

Ultimately, do it if it makes you happy, and under no circumstances should you do if it does not! You are the one who lives in your own skin and within the confines between your ears, no one else. You are here because you have accepted that much. Don't be defined by anyone else if the definition does not fit, be whomever you choose/were chosen to be. Even destiny can be thwarted, but it hurts like Hades own ball-sack to do so.

Choose, do not allow yourself to be chosen for.

Ok, TLDR. Sorry for the rant. Love yourself first.

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Very well said thank you. I agree that ultimately it comes to choice and autonomy. Of living by the law that I write in my own heart.

rachel,i personally know how you feel about not being 100% male or 100% female,it took me 31 yrs to find a balance. i relate more towards hermorphiditism then the ts spectrum,for im female from the chest up and male from the chest down. nope never had a face job or breast implants,i was just born this way. try having breasts though small when puberty hits and you do not go through like most guys,that makes life interesting.

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Originally Posted by RachelsMantra

Im mainly comparing myself to transgendered people more generally but I also can relate to transsexuals because transsexuals typically want some kind of procedure(s) done to make them more feminine. Right now I only want one procedure done (electrolysis). But it's still wanting at least one feminization procedure. This seems distinct from crossdressers who want zero procedures done.

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Don't think of hair removal as a feminizing procedure. Many men don't like their facial hair and have it removed. In fact my tech has had a few men come in and have it removed just because they hate shaving.

Megan

Rachel, the operations do not make you a man or a woman. They are there for those that feel the need to align their body with their mind. For example, a transsexual has FFS, why? To look more like a woman. She has GRS, why? To look more like a woman. She has BA, why? To look more like a woman. It is up to the individual to determine just how far they need to go to feel comfortable in their own skin. If you don't want these operations, fine. That is totally your decision. Learn to enjoy life and all it has to offer. As long as you are happy with yourself, why would you want to go through life altering operations?

Like i said, you are making it complicated..

The straw man cometh..this isn't a debate...you are debating air.

Why do you think I said you are either a man or a woman?? I didn't even come close to saying that... i said transsexuals are women.

Of course GD doesn't have to be soul crippling. What makes you think i said that??
Transsexuals often suffer what i called soul crippling gender dysphoria, you do not...thats the whole point
People who are not transsexual do not suffer this feeling. People who do not suffer this dysphoria badly tend to not take drastic measures...
I hope over time you never experience anything worse than you feel now about your beard and your other male features.

There are comments about not letting others define you, nobody is defining you, people are just responding to what you said with sincerity.

From my standpoint as a transsexual i do not let others define me either...you are here talking to transsexuals saying is this a "thing"? and yes of course it is...but it has nothing at all to do with transsexuality. Feminizing yourself is not transsexuality.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

but it has nothing at all to do with transsexuality. Feminizing yourself is not transsexuality.

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Do you think this thread would have been better suited for the MTF crossdressing forum? There is either that or this forum. I felt this forum would be more appropriate for discussing transgenderism and bigenderism because it's a different issue than your bread and butter MTF crossdressing.

I think this thread is it's own thing, actually.

Just like cis-gendered people don't understand the very notion of gender identity, transsexual people don't get bigenderism or the notion of duality. Might as well put it here for now, but a new category may be necessary.

If you want to live fulltime as a woman, then in my opinion, for what that's worth (and it isn't worth much), you are a woman, and you are transgender - at least if that's who you say you are. Who am I to gainsay you? I don't know you.

Not all of us feel the need to medically transition. I will tell you that you will face several hurdles if you try to transition socially and on the job without medical transition. The big issue you will face is that in most locales, you will be unable to change your identification - particularly your gender marker. This means you'll out yourself anytime you use a credit card, have to show ID like a driver's license, etc. Until you've lived through this, you have no idea how much this sucks.

The other issue you are likely to have is job discrimination. Look, people in transition aren't protected most places. Someone who isn't doing anything medical is unlikely to attract the helpful eye of the EEOC, in my opinion. You are liable to be viewed as "just a crossdresser." I personally don't agree with this, but it is what it is.

If you are a woman, and live as one, or are in some form of transition to living as one fulltime, then you are a woman, in my opinion. Simple as that. (I am also likely the minority opinion on this matter here.) If you are living a more gender fluid life - switching between genders, and not feeling the need to live as one or the other, that's fine and valid, and you are still transgender. I wouldn't describe you as being a woman - you'd be something else, but I don't feel that is an invalid way to live.

The unfortunate part about the forum here is that non-binary people (I'm not saying that's what you are, btw), tend to get forced in with the CDs (who really aren't binary either, but they are sort of a common, special case). This isn't always appropriate. The TS forum here tends to be very much aligned along the gender binary.

BTW, there are women who can't medically transition for health reasons. They are still women, in my opinion.

Oh it's definitely a thing.

Personally, I would have loved to live like that if I could have been happy. Hell I would have loved to have just been a regular gay dude, rather than pulling the pin on the Tranny Grenade(tm)

As it turns out, my life long burden was Gender Dysphoria and what I wanted most of all from my life was for people to recognize me as a woman. I'm not gonna lie, being able to pass as a dude for work would have been helpful, but I wanted to change my name and gender markers on everything so it would have been kinda weird to be a dude named Melissa.

This little forum (TS) is populated by people like me. Most of us have transitioned, are transitioning, or thinking about it. Around here, 'transition' means a name change and since most of us are middle aged(ish) it's a pretty rough thing to do so we use this forum to share successes and disappointments. We like to keep it real here because there are a lot of people reading who may be questioning and seeking honest information about what might happen so the tone tends to be decidedly un-fabulous.

You are someone who apparently enjoys Crossdressing and wants to mitigate your facial hair. That my dear is a huge club and and there are a LOT of CD's who do that and there's even plenty of them who are on HRT. What seperates 'them' from 'us' is the name change. The total social transition where a woman takes the place of the man that was.

Having said all of that, you are certainly welcome to join 'us' and do whatever. Just do us a favor and don't chime in with your thoughts on the difficulties of transitioning at work. :-)

Everybody's different. Just do what makes you happy as long as it doesn't hurt anyone.

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Originally Posted by Kaitlyn Michele

There are comments about not letting others define you, nobody is defining you, people are just responding to what you said with sincerity.

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I did not intend to imply that anyone was "defining" anyone else either in this forum, or on this site at large. My statement was made to try and pull Rachel away from the (IMO) mistake of using "external" definitions on an entirely "internal" process/decision/mindset/what-have-you. I made the statement as one who has lived that way for more years than I care to admit owning. I do not want Rachel to create his/her identity based on "what s/he is not" but instead upon "what s/he is" (or otherwise chosen to become).

The world spends its time (as do we all) "defining" and "judging" things. How else can we determine how we will spend our most precious commodity, Our Time on Earth? I was trying to bolster Rachel's inner strength to make the choice that brings the greatest contentment. Like I try to do for myself every day...

We both can learn so much from you, and the other transsexual ladies who have done and been and gone through so much to be the you that you truly feel yourselves to be. One day I may be where you are... I is also possible I won't. I don't know yet. And nor does Rachel. But you are a trailblazer so that s/he and I can make our decision just a little more easily, and with a little less trauma than you. For that I thank you.

I apologise if anything in my posts gave offense to you or the transsexual community. That most certainly was not my intent.

It's an interesting question: How do I fit into this world? What is my place? Am I doing good? Do others accept me? Do I like/accept me?

Since birth, all humans have to figure out right/wrong, and for children we have to make the choices simple for them because their noggins would explode if they had something more complex than a binary selection.

Unfortunately, adults still suffer using this binary paradigm for most of their thinking. Democrat/Republican, Gay/Straight, God/Satan, Coke/Pepsi.
It's comforting to be able to pick one and stay there, and move on with your life. Having picked a camp, it relieves one from making further decisions. Decisions are difficult. They demand one take responsibility. It means you are taking a risk (at some level).

Rachel, I think the reason you posed the question in the first place is because you feel uncomfortable, and unsure. And it's not surprising that you might feel that way. We live in a world that appears to want us to be the round peg, but we are not.
We most definitely are NOT.
This community is populated with Gendernauts.
We live not in the easily categoried world of black/white. We live on a grayscale spectrum. And we have to ask these questions of ourselves because most, if not all, of us are in truly uncharted territory. And given our environment, we will pay a penalty even if we navigate these waters well.

Even though I am closeted, I find it comforting to be here on this site (and a few others) where we can let our freak flag fly, bathed in a strong level of acceptance, support, and encouragement.

If we are to progress as humans, as a society, I think it's our job to graduate from living a strictly binary paradigm, and SEE the gray and become comfortable with living in the gray. As well as educating and encouraging others to find their gray.

thanks shayleigh....there is no "upset" in anything with me...i'm just kind of too direct sometimes...
I liked your comment actually and used it to further my own point of view which is that many times people say things about transsexuals (especially things about how they identify with them) without really understanding what being transsexual is all about. They conflate the superficial stuff with being the same.

To me if you are a man (or not a woman) and you say that you relate to me as a woman, i have to respond ...no you don't
and I don't relate to you (as a man)
you wouldn't say that about your sister or mom or a natal woman.

its worth saying even if it comes off harsh or wrong...if the OP really wants to relate, she needs the info and she needs to have a dialog to work it all out for herself. and she needs to listen openly without being defensive with ideas that make her uncomfortable.

Now if you are willing to pay the huge $$, go thru the pain and the enormous amount of time required for electrolysis, i can definitely relate to that!!!!!

Feminization is pretty common in non TS.
The key words for me are identity, you say you identify partly as male, TS as far as I know don't.
Having electrolysis and wearing some clothes doesn't make you a woman, your identity/brain makes you a woman.

But you never really said you was TS either, why wouldn't you adopt the term transgender?

Although you're probably in the wrong section, I do wonder where you would go?
There are a lot more people like you than you realise.
There probably should be a new section as its a little unfair to be lumped in with CDers and yet not fit in with the TS.
No one should feel excluded.

Rachel,

From reading your posts, it sounds like you are definitely somewhere on the transgender spectrum. You need not be fully identified as female to be TG. The TG spectrum includes:

gender fluids / bigender / dual gender - people who wish to change back and forth between male and female presentations and typically have both male and female identities. You may be 40% male and 60% female or 55 male / 45 female, or any other mix of male/female.

genderqueer - people may identify as queer or as something other than male or female, and typically blur the gender lines when it comes to male and female behavior and expressions. A genderqueer may wear a suit and tie one day, and a dress the next day, while maintaining a male haircut and a mustache. You might wear a casual male outfit with some lipstick and carry a purse.

agender - someone who does not identify as any gender. Presentations will likely blur gender lines like a genderqueer, but you identify as having no gender.

There are other identities too, these are just some of the common non-binary ones.

A transsexual is someone whose gender identity is the opposite of their birth sex, and who undergoes medical treatments, social transition, and legal documentation / ID change, to bring their body in alignment with their mind and to live as the gender they truly identify with. To be an MTF TS, you need to have been born as a male, and identify as a female. Some of us undergo a full transition (electrolysis, HRT, GCS (SRS), possible breast augmentation and FFS if necessary). Others will forgo the GCS (SRS) but still take HRT and get electrolysis. If you're light skinned with dark facial hair, you may opt for laser instead of electrolysis, or you may do a combo of laser and electrolysis. Some TSes may simply live full-time as a woman but not undergo medical treatments. Some people cannot transition for medical reasons or have other obstacles (family, career, fear) that prevent them from transitioning too, but if you identify as female than you are a woman and a MTF TS.

To me, it is perfectly acceptable to be outside the binary, to blur gender lines, or to switch back and forth and have a fluid identity. No it is not that common within the trans community and unfortunately lots of people in the TG community can be biased against non-binaries. But non-binaries do exist, and I have personally met at least 4 or 5 since I have been active in the trans community.

If you decide to go on HRT, make sure you take it under the direction of a doctor. This is serious stuff, and has serious consequences - both in terms of feminizing your body and your mind, and in terms of possible side effects. Anything medical is nothing to mess around with.

Whereever you are on the spectrum is totally ok. Just keep on exploring yourself and you'll discover where on the spectrum you fall, and what you need to live authentically. And yes, you need not be TS to undergo electrolysis or laser. Lots of CDers, gender fluid or genderqueers, and even sometimes cis-men, will undergo partial or full electrolysis or laser to remove all of the beard, or at least to thin it out so it doesn't grow back so fast.

Please feel free to send me a PM if you need someone to talk to :)

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Originally Posted by Jorja

Rachel, the operations do not make you a man or a woman.

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This.

Non-op is totally OK and if that's how you wanna roll then don't let anyone give you any crap about your decision.

I agree with Dianne. The trick is figuring out who you and what you want, without getting bogged down in what other people tell you about who you should be or what you should do. Binary labels can be pernicious. Reality is much more nuanced, and people come in a wondrous assortment of variety and diversity. Be the best you and let others be.

Honestly, you describe yourself as someone very much within the TG spectrum...living a life that allows you to express yourself as female at your convenience, but retaining the male role for largely economic purposes. Nothing wrong with that. All those terms you used fit quite comfortably under the TG umbrella.

I'm not motivated to get into the TG vs TS differentiation right.

You are transgender and that is fine. It is okay to be what you are as you describe yourself. One of the problems with this forum is it does only leave the CD section or TS section, not much room for those who feel more in-between.

If you are comparing yourself against transsexual women who have transitioned you may need to be asking yourself why you are doing that.

When you are really comfortable in yourself and your identity (wherever that is within the gender spectrum thingy) you find that you don't need to do that anymore.

it makes no differents if you have operations or not ,its how you feel on the inside,for me yes I want breast and be more female,but without the grs,but I still feel more female than male

Obviously you are entitled to dress however you want, feel however you feel and call yourself whatever you want and you do not need anyone from the Internets permission to do so. That being said I can't relate to your experience. I can't imagine being comfortable spending any time at all looking like, feeling like, wanting to be like, or being treated like a guy. So whatever you are is different than whatever I am. I suffered the soul crushing GD that Kaitlin mentioned. I wanted to die because of it. Transition has helped but the relief it has afforded comes with a hefty price tag. If you go through with your plans for hair removal you will have a small taste of what it's like to pay that price.

There are a lot of people like you, far more than either transsexuals, non-op or not, or others who transition (Michelle and I can agree to disagree here), take hormones, or undergo procedures. Search for "middle path" and you will find references to people who are firmly in the space you describe and who have found ways to integrate their lives.

As Theresa said, the forum structurally splits along TS and CD lines. Those who identify like you are left with the choice of participating in places and in ways that don't always seem to fit very well. The forum isn't your life, however, and you can find plenty of support groups in real life that will be just fine.

Rachel, you fit the transgender profile perfectly. I think many of us feel that same way. we are stuck in this strange condition when we wake up every day. Uh, what am I today. Male or female. Ah, I think I'll just be a girl today. Getting your hair removed will cost you. Yet many people do not have to shave that often and if you have a heavy beard it would be a blessing to remove it. I know, I have a heavy beard. I shave it twice a day if I putting on makeup. So, I understand what you identify as. You are not alone. There are many of us.

Yes Miss RachelsMantra it is a "thing" just like all of us, I /we walk the fine line and to are own beat of the trans drum.

It took me many decades of asking the question "what am I?" to finally arrive at TS. The answer comes from within and it's hard to pin down to hard facts. I have been 'coming out' to all of my family and friends this last week and it's been going quite well, I tell my mother today. I am planning to petition the courts here in MN next week for name and gender change which is possible without surgery here, gratefully. I came out to my brother 2 days ago and yesterday had a brief talk with him and he said "So if you're not going to have any surgeries then it's all about the clothes isn't it? You could dress without the hormones and be doing the same thing." It's a good question and thought provoking for someone like myself who really doesn't want to carve up my body and gets by just fine tolerating a few double takes now and then. However it's missing the whole point of being TS, and that is, there is a difference between men and women other than clothes. Being a woman means different things to each of us but it's way different from being a cross dresser. The hormones help bring our minds and bodies closer to the place we know inside we should be...all the time, not just occasionally and not just when wearing some panties. For people like me, 62 and beginning transition, the hardest part is uncovering that little girl inside that I spent 50 years covering up and destroying, almost. Being transgender is a being part of a fluid continuum from one extreme to the other but means you are a different beautiful expression of humanity, unique and OK. Try to find peace in what makes you comfortable and worry less about what others do and which category you fit in!