Thoughts from a GG

I remember when I young hearing someone say that women sometimes get jealous of men who crossdress because the men sometimes look better than the woman.

Well, I'm beginning to think that there may be some truth in that statement. I'm a GG and have a male friend who's a crossdresser (underdresses) and we have become quite good friends even though we haven't met yet. Well, we may meet in a few months when he's out this way and I'm realizing that I'm really nervous about meeting him because I think he kind of looks better in the lingerie than I do. I think because he loves lingerie so much that he keeps himself in such great shape because of how he wants to lingerie to fit, as opposed to me. He also has higher-end taste and I'm feeling a bit insecure.

So just some food for thought, I actually just wanted to say that it is possible that there are wives and girlfriends who actually are a bit envious and feel insecure because of the way that you look in your clothing. I don't think many women would admit to that though or even realize that that is how they are feeling.

I don't :) the only thing I am jealous of is Nigella's got better legs than me and I don't feel insecure either but then I guess all of this could stem from how you found out about the cding, and how it has affected your life and what kind of relationship you have ( by you I don't mean you in particular Lisa) but wives/partners in general.

I have been told by several GGs that I have a better figure that they do. But I also consider the fact that many GGs have gone through childbirth and lost the figure they once had. Being a male from birth I had to practice to attain my feminine persona, whereas many GGs take their gender for granted. I know a GG who is quite thin (think Olive Oyl) who has told me she wishes she had a figure like mine. I consider that a nice compliment.

Hi Lisa,

I don't feel jealous either, despite the fact that my SO's legs are skinner than mine! :D I have always liked my body, even as it ages.

I remember having a discussion with a GG several years ago who, like you, felt a bit insecure because her SO kept himself in better shape than she did. And so I asked her, would she also feel insecure if she was standing next to another GG who was in great shape and they were both looking in the mirror? This GG said yes. And so she realized that her feelings of unease didn't stem from being jealous of her SO. Instead it was more about wishing she (the GG) was slimmer.

So here's what you need to remember: you are beautiful, and you have a beautiful body with natural curves that your CD friend might well be envious of, because as a male his body is more angular. But, if there is anything about your body that you do not like, you can change this, and you can buy nice lingerie if you want to as well (it doesn't have to be super expensive)! :)

I like the way I look and I guess I might look better than some but I know some look better than me. I'd say meet with him and work it out....

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Originally Posted by Lisa9099

... because the men sometimes look better than the woman..... it is possible that there are wives and girlfriends who actually are a bit envious and feel insecure because of the way that you look in your clothing...

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I have said to my wife that simply because I may fit in a smaller size than her, that does not make me in anyway a better looking woman. She is envious of the size of some of my parts and I too am envious of the size of some of her parts. It has been nice that she and I have both been able to openly talk about this.

Lisa, the very first thing my fiancee said to me when she saw me present as Amy was, "I'm jealous, you look more feminine than I do!" She still routinely thinks I'm prettier than her; she's especially jealous of my natural hair, which is thicker and wavier than hers, and falls all the way to my bra band in the back. Despite this, she still accepts my Amy-side, and routinely tells me I'm cute whenever I finish dressing and step out into the living room to show her. And her acceptance has even increased over time; she's recently started allowing me to wear my nightgowns to bed, as long as I don't wear my foam breast forms with them, or wear ones that are "too sexy." (Before that, she had no objection to ladies' pajamas, and I routinely wore those.)

She does have one natural advantage over me, though...I wear forms to give me a C cup as Amy, while she has natural DDs. :D It's possible that you might have quite a bit of natural advantage over your friend in some respects, too. So don't worry...and you might look at some new lingerie for yourself before you meet up with him. Wearing all that satin and lace underneath can feel really good, like you have this secret sexy side that no one else can see; trust me! And, if the two of you wind up having a slumber party, you'll both want to look your prettiest! :battingeyelashes:

- Amy

Not all of us feel that way. I have never even thought, much less said, that I look better than a GG (and I mean any GG.)

Thanks for pointing that out, Vickie.

GGs are socialized to not elevate themselves (out loud) over someone else even if they do think they are better ... better looking, more talented at something, etc. We are taught that doing this is arrogant and rude because if the other person were present, they'd feel awkward hearing it. Men on the other hand are socialized to promote themselves. There's nothing wrong with that, in fact it's a practice that women should (and are) becoming better at. But, it seems to me that self-promotion without making someone else feel "less than" is the best way to do this. Saying something like, "I like the way I look" sounds much more positive and confident than "I look better than (whoever)", which to me sounds insecure and rather petty.

So to the members who do think they look better than women, you should keep these thoughts to yourselves especially if in the same breath you say that you understand women so much better than men who do not CD.

I try my best but there will never be a day where I look better than any GG.
Your friend may look fabulous in lingerie but I'm sure you look fabulous in it as well.
Don't worry too much.

Reine, you're right there. I may be beautiful (in a lot of people's opinion), but I'm not going to measure up to most GGs. Heavens, my score on HotOrNot is only 5.07, or about roundly average, and even that is pretty amazing that I can score that well. Most of what I mentioned about comparison in my first post is what my fiancee told me.

I don't focus on looking "better" than anyone, cis or trans; I just make myself the best I can be, and let things go from there.

I don't claim to actually understand women any better, either, except in certain very specific aspects...such as why they want so many pairs of shoes. :D

- Amy

I get this from a lot of friends and also from SO's in my past. I still remember the first time my current bestie saw Abi, I just happened to pick one dress from my wardrobe that she owned too. All day long she was saying to people "I'm p**sed off.. he looks better in that dress than I do!!!".

I happen to think my bestie is gorgeous, but as many people say, she has had 4 kids and doesn't have the luxury of a body touched only by the occasional pizza etc. My legs get lots of compliments, and my last ex did say she was jealous of my S-Curve compared to hers. Yes I think we do have certain advantages over the GG's, for example, we simply choose what size boobs we want to have and then buy breast forms in order to get them. Not quite so simple for our "genetically restricted" counterparts hehe..

One thing I will say to any gg reading this, as well as the original poster. No matter how jealous or envious you are of us, I can guarantee you that we are JUST as jealous of you. xx

Like it or not, the fashion industry's ideal woman has a body more like a male than a normal female. Tall, narrow-hipped, and leggy is the standard they push and that happens to be the shape I have.

Does this mean that I'm somehow more attractive than a GG? Of course not! I will occasionally have a GG in a dressing room say something like "I wish I was tall enough to wear that!" but that isn't a comparison of her looks and mine, simply a comment on my height. I point out to the commenter that there are many dresses that I cannot wear because they are either too short or not long-waisted enough for me. Looking good in a long maxidress does not fully make up for all the "normal" dresses I have to pass up.

I was always told i had better looking legs them some real girls, in fact i had one girl tell me she would kill to have legs like mine xx

Lisa,
I think it's a valid question it's good to see a GG pose this one !
I would think there's some truth in our partners thinking this way, it may not always be out of jealousy but possibly more our of frustration . When we dress we can take the time and effort, we probably spend more time thinking about outfits and possibly enjoy shopping more. I often hear my wife say that will have to do when she's putting on makeup to go out for the day , and she hates clothes shopping . Now she sees my legs shaved she may not like the idea but they do look good, whether she imagines them in stockings and heels and is both upset and envious I don't know but I know she's not happy with her legs !
As for looking better in lingerie I can't answer that but I much prefer the look without body hair, she's never said she liked my male hair but it may be one of the reasons why GGs don't like us shaving it off , we can never look feminine with it no matter how pretty the underwear.

Hi Lisa,

I think Eryn is right on here. Just as women come in a wonderful variety of body shapes and can find clothes that work with a given shape, we have to as well. Many of us probably wear clothes that really don't work with broad shoulders and no hips (Twiggy we ain't!), and we stuck with male brows and chins, try as we might to hide them! And we probably wear too much makeup. I know that I don't try to look better than a GG, but if I can come off as a reasonable facsimile of same, that's enough for me.

I certainly don't try to compete with my wife; if anything, we try to help each other with our looks.

I think it all just goes to show the great variety of bodies that both men and women have. Serena Williams (and a few in the WNBA) could put many men to shame (me included) as far as being strong and fit. Andrea (nee Andrej) Petkovic, Tula, and probably quite a few others have bodies that lots of women would envy. My ex wife once asked me if I had the chance, would I like to have a body like Paulina Porizkova. I said sure, but you didn't offer me Arnold Schwarzenegger or I would have taken that one. She still divorced me because she was so sure that I was TS and that I'd transition. Oh well.

The other night, after my fiancee had had a few, she asked me what I was doing. I said I was reading this forum. She stated, "I know all those guys think they look better than natural women." I know she is insecure sometimes, seems she would not be the only one.

I think that if a crossdresser thinks he looks better (as a woman) than a genetic woman, he is fooling himself. Perhaps some crossdressers look better than some women, but 90% of us would not.

Picture Caitlyn Jenner for a moment.

My wife is a full-time woman living in the real world. She wears a rather unflattering uniform to work and dresses comfortably elsewhere. I like to make up and dress over the top for few hours occasionally in my fantasy dressup sessions. Sure, I look "better" but only for a very tiny portion of time.

My wife's therapist (female w/gender credentials) actually suggested that my crossdressing might cause an irritation of female competition in the house. Like I needed something else to keep DADT alive. It's really just is two people enjoying each other's happiness. But, I generally disagree with most things therapists have to say.

A therapist (like a business consultant) is someone you pay to say what you want him/her to say.

Hi Carla, There two kinds of therapist,:daydreaming:

The ones that tells you what you want to hear,

And the ones that tells your wife what she wants to hear.

First of all, I don't think many of us treat this as a competition, but there are probably some... :)

Secondly - for this forum particularly - there are a fair number of folk who begin to find their femme feet in their mid-40s and beyond. Realistically, males tend to be in better physical shape than females at this age forward and as Eryn has already pointed out, a slimmer-hipped figure can tend to make one appear younger, as can a lack of cellulite... :eek:

Finally - aren't most of us trying hard to look good and utilising all the skill, guile and materiel we can bring into play..? As people here are keen to point out, few women make a big effort at this age unless it's a special occasion - whereas for us, every occasion is special... I doubt many of us would look in the least convincing with our own hair, no padding, no false lashes, and minimal makeup... if I was banned from 'artificial aids' I doubt I'd be sharing any photos quite as much... :o

You make a good point about those with wives and partners though - of course it's important to keep communicating so that this can't become an issue... :)

Katey x

I've had three gg's remark that they envy my ability to apply nail polish. I even had a gm compliment me on my nails. Every time I felt so thrilled that I had impressed them because it meant I was "doing it right"
I enjoy their envy, but I also like to point out that I'm envious of them too. Sure I can put on nail polish cleaner than they can. But they can wear it out into public without fear of being accosted for it.

I have shown photos to a few women, and appeared before a former landlady friend , once, in black high heels, hose and a black dress and wig. All said i had great legs like a woman! Like Nicole said, though, and katey alluded to, I can use lots of accessories to make myself look smashing, and dress better than most GG's, and even look better than many... for a very SHORT TIME. Then, back to nyet!

Remember that you have many natural advantages over your male friend. If you think his lingerie is better, borrow it. I'm sure you will look very very good and he will be the jealous one.

Most TG people pay a lot of attention to their looks and put considerable effort into clothes and makeup. Any GG who spends an hour on her makeup will look considerably better too. However, GGs have nothing to prove and no worries about blending or passing.

So, by comparison, a TG person might be more attractive in some way or other than a GG, but the looks-to-effort ratio is firmly on the GGs' side.

Dont worry about something that much for something such as looks. It is something subjective, and you can't be attractive to everybody or unattractive for the same reason.

So looking better... looking better to who?. Because for some, your friend might be more attractive, and for others, you will be more attractive.

As long as one is satisfied with how one looks to oneself, its all good.

By the way for some people TGs are more attractive for the very fact of being TG, I just wanted to remind this... because its very relative.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

Most TG people pay a lot of attention to their looks and put considerable effort into clothes and makeup. Any GG who spends an hour on her makeup will look considerably better too.

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Looking better than what? I think it's a question of taste. I've heard some men say, for example, they don't like women with lots of makeup, elaborate hairdos, and clothing they might consider too fussy, or too establishment-looking, or whatever else their tastes might be. So to them, the approachable girl-next-door look is preferable (jeans, fresh looking skin, clear eyes). A lot of people look past the clothes at the woman who is inside them. I've even heard (or read) some men say their ideal sexy woman is one who is fresh out of the shower with still dewey skin, wet hair, and naked.

It's like a child who discusses his preferences for vegetables. He might say, "carrots are better than broccoli", when he really means, "I like carrots more than I like broccoli". Someone else might prefer broccoli and one is not better than the other.

I dunno ... I think that because CDs/TGs are particularly into the makeup and women's fashions, they think that women who don't adorn themselves with these things look "worse" than those who do?

There are also just too many variables to this. A woman with a fantastic body will look "better" to many men than one who is 70 years old and shriveled from a lifetime of sun exposure, even if the former is in a beat-up pair of jeans and the latter is wearing a Chanel suit and Jimmy Choo shoes ... unless maybe he is an 80 year old man who prefers women in his own age group. :)

I realize that's a bit of bait, but why not...

There is a multi-billion dollar industry based upon the premise that woman + cosmetics = better looking woman.

Judging from what I see in public, women in social situations tend to wear cosmetics. The fancier the occasion, the more elaborate the cosmetics become. Men may say they prefer women wearing less cosmetics, but by their actions many women seem to disagree.

Now, from the perspective of someone who goes out often, I fully understand why GGs don't want to do the makeup thing all the time. I consider it a chore and most of the time I'm going out with only lipstick on my face. Electrolysis has taken care of the beard issue. For special occasions I wear quite a lot more makeup. I see very few bare-faced women at the opera, nightclubs, etc.

So, if you think that a totally bare face is preferable to one with makeup, that's fine, but that doesn't seem to be the way most people of either gender consider it.

Thanks again for all of your responses.

Although, as I read over my initial post and as I think more about it, I'm not sure if I should have used the word "jealous"...maybe "disconcerting" would have been a better word.

I also should point out that I'm sure there are many GG's who do not feel like I do, but I do consider myself to be a pretty normal, middle-aged women. That being said, I also consider myself to be more self-analytical than most people and my friendship/relationship with my friend has made me think about things that I have never had to think about before. A for-instance would be...if I wear panties and a bra that are a deep purple color, my new friend will say, "Oh my God - I LOVE that color and they're beautiful, etc. and of course tell me that I look beautiful as well" but my ex would just say that they look sexy...my ex would not care in the least bit if the color was drab green, or polka dots, or muddy brown. So, for me, I feel a bit more pressure to buy/wear stuff that meets his approval (such as color, a certain kind of lace, the feel of the fabric, etc.) because I know that he thinks a lot about that stuff - certainly more than I do). I also know that he keeps himself a certain size/shape so that he looks a certain way in his lingerie - so I do look at his long, thin legs and I'm not jealous of them, but it triggers a very subtle emotion that is hard to pinpoint... He may look like a man in lingerie, but I can't wear the long, flowing Olga nightgown...my short legs and my extra few pounds would make it look worse on me than on him, and I'm the woman.

So, I do think that a wife or partner of a CDer could have a lot of mixed feelings that aren't just simply that they don't approve of what you do - there just may be more layers involved and if she's a middle-aged woman that is a bit over-weight and you are wearing clothes that she can't wear, it may trigger feelings that she would never admit to having.

I have a ways to go before I meet my friend and I'm sure that I'll tell him I how I feel and we'll talk about it, but I just thought I'd share on this forum how this GG feels.

Lisa, my SO has expressed some envy over my legs compared to hers, but it's because mine have greater muscle definition, so although we both exercise at about the same level, it looks like I have done more. It's not, in my opinion, that my legs look better, it's that they show something that she would prefer hers to show more of. Of course, I think hers look better!

You say you're more self analytical? Or do you mean more self critical? I know I used to be very bad for that, it's a hard thing to shake. I would suggest you try to put it out of your head, in as far as worrying about his responses, just deal with them as they come up.

Hi Underdresser, you may be right about it being more "self-critical" than "self-analytical".

I guess the more that I'm getting to know my friend, the more I'm realizing his love for everything "woman" - more so than the average man who is not a CDer, and it's making me more and more nervous because even though people, including him, say I'm almost one in a million because I accept this, I just am worried that I won't live up to his expectations of being woman enough for him. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it's how I'm beginning to feel.

Thanks for your input! :)

Hi Lisa i really do not think you should worry or try to live up to anyone's expectations .Just try to be you and feel compfortable with who you are .Us cders and im not saying all of us but a lot of us want that acceptance that we look good or better than the average women or at least pass . It helps our ego's i guess it makes us feel good about ourselfs just like a women buying a new dress and trying to look perfect in it for their boyfriend or husband .We all want to look great :)

Confidence is what is really sexy. Knowing you are sexy, and owning it is key. If you feel concerned you need to do something to feel sexy. Because each person should feel happy about themselves. Do boudoir, or a pole dance class. I love luca, but I am the hotter one. ;)

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Originally Posted by Lisa9099

A for-instance would be...if I wear panties and a bra that are a deep purple color, my new friend will say, "Oh my God - I LOVE that color and they're beautiful, etc. and of course tell me that I look beautiful as well" but my ex would just say that they look sexy...my ex would not care in the least bit if the color was drab green, or polka dots, or muddy brown. So, for me, I feel a bit more pressure to buy/wear stuff that meets his approval (such as color, a certain kind of lace, the feel of the fabric, etc.) because I know that he thinks a lot about that stuff - certainly more than I do).

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Yes, they do care more about the clothing itself than other men which is sometimes difficult for newly involved GGs to get used to (I was also surprised and sometimes disconcerted), but over time I was able to see that my SO did and does indeed find me attractive. And I'm guessing that my SO is pretty average.

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Originally Posted by Lisa9099

I also know that he keeps himself a certain size/shape so that he looks a certain way in his lingerie - so I do look at his long, thin legs and I'm not jealous of them, but it triggers a very subtle emotion that is hard to pinpoint... He may look like a man in lingerie, but I can't wear the long, flowing Olga nightgown...my short legs and my extra few pounds would make it look worse on me than on him, and I'm the woman.

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Don't wear the Olga nightgowns! Wear things that suit YOUR body, and you will look wonderful to him in them! Google Curvy Girl Inc, a website for women with curves and believe me, many CDers would die to have those curves.

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Originally Posted by Lisa9099

So, I do think that a wife or partner of a CDer could have a lot of mixed feelings that aren't just simply that they don't approve of what you do - there just may be more layers involved and if she's a middle-aged woman that is a bit over-weight and you are wearing clothes that she can't wear, it may trigger feelings that she would never admit to having..

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We absolutely do. If I sounded a bit flippant in my first post I apologize. I guess I momentarily forgot the emotional yo-yo I was on in the beginning too, when I noticed that my SO didn't react to me as a woman the same way that my ex did. But, it did all fall into place eventually and if the two of you end up clicking, it will fall into place for you as well. You should think about joining our private F.A.B. section (female at birth).

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Originally Posted by Lisa9099

I guess the more that I'm getting to know my friend, the more I'm realizing his love for everything "woman" - more so than the average man who is not a CDer, and it's making me more and more nervous because even though people, including him, say I'm almost one in a million because I accept this, I just am worried that I won't live up to his expectations of being woman enough for him. I'm not sure if that makes sense, but it's how I'm beginning to feel.

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Please believe me when I say that your friend would love to have the assets that you have. :hugs:

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Originally Posted by Eryn

There is a multi-billion dollar industry based upon the premise that woman + cosmetics = better looking woman.

Judging from what I see in public, women in social situations tend to wear cosmetics. The fancier the occasion, the more elaborate the cosmetics become. Men may say they prefer women wearing less cosmetics, but by their actions many women seem to disagree.

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Yes, I hear you ... and many other members here have shared similar sentiments in the past. My issue is, there's a disconnect between what I hear you and others say, and the reality I see portrayed around me which is that for the most part, women wear no makeup, or very little (almost imperceptibly)! Yes we might put a little on if it's a special occasion, and certainly younger women (between ages 16-24) might go through a phase of wearing it more, but I just don't see it in the dozens and dozens of women that I run into every day at work, at the mall, at the grocery store, etc.

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Originally Posted by Eryn

So, if you think that a totally bare face is preferable to one with makeup, that's fine, but that doesn't seem to be the way most people of either gender consider it.

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It's not just me ...

So, I did a little research. The cosmetics industry is indeed large: $56.6 billion in sales annually in the US.

BUT ... a whopping 83.4% of the sales are for things that we do not see (and also that men and kids use)! Facial care (facial wash, sunscreen lotions, moisturizers, after-shave lotions) and haircare (shampoos, conditioners) alone account for 58.2% ($33 Billion) of total sales. The other things we don't see are toiletries, deodorants, oral care, and perfumes which account for another 25.2% ($14 Billion), leaving a paltry 16.6% ($9 Billion) for cosmetics. This works out to an average of $75 spent on cosmetics per adult woman per year, which is barely a bottle of foundation and mascara, not counting the unused portions that get thrown away when buying new ones. I don't even know why they call it the cosmetics industry. They should call it personal care.

http://www.statisticbrain.com/cosmet...ry-statistics/

Lisa,
We want to look as beautiful as you if possible, and believe me, sometimes we go alot further to try to. We are not out to show you up, at all! We love you! Want to be just like you, just remember that. Nothing to feel insecure about. And nothing to feel jealous about either. Ladies, please join us, help us, we just want to look beautiful like you!
Hugs,
Bree :)

I often think my ex-wife was jealous of me as I could fit into size 12 and 14 jeans and skirts and size 18 dresses and tops, I also heard her tell my sister that I had a body that looked more female than male. My ex couldn't find a pair of jeans big enough to fit her and size 26 dresses were a tight fit.

Hey Lisa,

I'll bet your friend is just happy to have found someone accepting and open minded enough to discuss dressing. In the end, we all simply want to look our best for each other and I'm sure you have a lot to offer (being here confirms that.) Likewise, over time and as relationships develop outer beauty is trumped by inner beauty.

On the lighter side: I never worry about being complimented as better than a GG regarding looks or style. The day the world changes and suddenly Aardvarks start getting admired as "occasionally better looking than a GG" then perhaps I'll stand a chance. Until then I have no hope and am no threat to GG's anywhere.

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Originally Posted by ReineD

?.. so I asked her, would she also feel insecure if she was standing next to another GG who was in great shape and they were both looking in the mirror? This GG said yes. And so she realized that her feelings of unease didn't stem from being jealous of her SO. Instead it was more about wishing she (the GG) was slimmer. ...

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I think this captures the misperceptions well. I'm a male athlete. I'm in better shape than my wife. That's just reality. But there is no way in hell that she would want any part of my shape. She would, however, like to be slimmer but she'd never work on her fitness as hard as I do so on rare occasions she'll make a comment about me "looking better in a skirt" than she does. Clearly what she means is what Reine pointed out.

Well Lisa I think I do okay but I am never going to look better than my wife. Regardless, don't let insecurity stop you from meeting this person if she is genuine and nice. Most cd's adore women who are open to us.

Lisa, do yourself a favor and buy that expensive bra and panty set. And let her help you choose it. Unlike most males who just want to see you in it, (s)he will enjoy (obsess over) helping you pick out something elegant, and waiting to see you in it will drive her wild with anticipation. The most beautiful european lingerie is available in all sizes and likely she buys in those lines because of band size. Look at Primadonna, Conturelle, Empreinte, Eprise de Lise Charmel. I buy nice sets because it makes me feel like I love myself, and her reasons may be similar. I think the investment will make you feel confident and elegant. It will definitely make you more desirable to her regardless of whether you show them off. Beauty is definitely not about dress size. I recently had (have?) a crush on a woman who is completely amazing and elegant, and her size is not something that defined her as such.
Bree, I completely agree with your thoughts.

The thing to remember is that it isn't a contest, whom is more beautiful or sexy in lingerie, I think the point is that you both are, for yourselves and for each other. I'd suggest you try to look at it from that perspective :)

It's all in good fun but my SO is 5'.......just five foot. There are no additional inches. I'm 6' 3" She's always giving me a hard time that my legs are nicer than hers, especially in heels.

PS: Hoping to have updated pics soon. Seriously, zero alone time until those darn kids get back in school. :o