Why lie to your SO/wife?

None of you may like what this thread says and it's probably extremely harsh but *shrug* it's the truth and I will not apologize for any hurt feelings



I just don't get it. I see a lot of "My SO/Wife found out and she's pissed" threads and I keep thinking to myself "Well what did you expect?". Seriously. What do you expect when it comes to light that you've been lying/hiding something from someone who thought they could trust you? Did you expect her to jump for joy? Quite honestly, to expect anything less than a total meltdown is delusional.


And then to have the gall to think that they should go to counseling to be made to accept something they have no desire to want any part of? That just seems to me to be extremely selfish.

Yes fine, sometimes it works out. But I'd wager those instances are exceptions to the rule.


If you can't be honest with the person you're with then you shouldn't be with that person. This is one of those things that should be brought up BEFORE the other person starts to have feelings for you so they can have the choice of wanting to be apart of it or not.....not after. Not telling her you bite your toenails is one thing. Not telling her you like to dress and act like a women when she's not home is another.



Rant off

If you have to sneak around doing something then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't have the dressing problem-ever.
Jon

Just a side observation: couples counseling is never about getting one person "straightened out" -- it's about getting couples to come to a mutual understanding. It doesn't work otherwise.

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket.
Many many closeted CD out there.
And DADT relationships. They can only sneak around. Unless maybe they don't like to see thier kids due to a divorce.

Yes...and what DonnaS states is so tragically true

Agree with Jennie 100%. Counseling can work, if both parties want it to. But it is about understanding and finding a place that works for both. Maybe that place can't be found, and if that's the case, then perhaps there is only one route left. But don't be afraid to try.

That said, I do agree that if this is so important to you, it should be brought up early rather than hiding it. Once you hide it, it becomes a Pandora's box, and can never be closed when opened, no matter how hard you try.

OK let's look on it tis way, it's hardly something you can just casually drop into a conversation with your new girlfriend over lunch, is it?

"Oh by the way babe, I like to wear women's clothes, high heels and makeup. I even own a pair of silicone breast forms. Hope you understand. Please don't tell anyone, not even your BFF".

Demonise people who already feel enough guilt and shame about their CD'ing finding it difficult enough to come out the girly closet all you like for not being automatically out and proud with it. But who's to say that not only will she not accept it and leave him, but also tell her friends who might tell his friends and his family about it too, who is also maybe on her and their Facebook?

I am relatively new to this and so far haven't told my new girlfriend who I met shortly after, god knows I want to, so I will find out first how she really feels about being with anyone who dresses, before I decide to tell her my secret. I need to understand how she thinks first before I allow her to know my big secret.

If she tells me she wouldn't accept it, then I will not tell her and stop my CD'ing for her if we decide to move in together, and nobody will get hurt. But I can't judge a guy who would find it more difficult to stop and/or too fearful of everyone finding out. We still live in a highly intolerant prejudiced society regarding straight guys who CD that it is actually easier to come out as gay and even to be a camp gay crossdresser than this. Well, unless he has a boyfriend/husband maybe.

Nobody is perfect, and you, me and everyone else find it tough enough to fully feel accepted in this intolerant society. Straight guys have so many more expectations thrust upon them that any deviations still seem unacceptable today. Can't wear pink, can't drink sherry. Bah!

Yes we know dishonesty is destructive, but instead of pointing accusing shaming fingers, which will likely send many to purge against their will again, let's just show some kindness and a little more understanding and support, asking why many can't just come out loud and proud so easily. Help them make the right decisions. If the damage has already been done, judging them more won't help in anyway, but might make him feel even more alone if they feel judged within the only safe haven they thought they had.

Just saying.

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Originally Posted by donnaS

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket. ..

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Originally Posted by arial

Yes...and what DonnaS states is so tragically true

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No. This is a myth just like cross dressers are gay. This is a great excuse to not come clean but there is no data to support this thesis. If you use this site alone as a proxy, divorces are not CAUSED by cross dressing. Cross dressing becomes the excuse to get out of a bad relationship. Just as the GG's here. Event he ones who are divorced say that cross dressing was not the reason.

Interesting perspectives...

Fact: More than half of all marriages end in divorce... (for the USA and UK, amongst others)
Implication: Something was wrong or went wrong in those 50%+ of marriages for that to happen...
Extrapolation: I'd guess a lot of the remaining undissolved marriages also have issues with lies, affairs, incompatibility, abuse, etc. but they stay together because most people can't be arsed to do anything about it (I know couples in those marriages...)
Further Extrapolation: A teeny-tiny percentage of those issues are around being TG or CDing
Conclusion: The vast majority of marriages have a good dose of lies, cheating, compromise, blah, blah, blah... NOTHING to do with our little predilections...

I'm not out to my SO because I don't need to be. I take responsibility for what I do and I intend to safeguard/ compartmentalize this aspect of me for as long as it takes or I change my mind. Not all of us have the relative luxury of being TG-lite - those of us that do have choices that others don't and while I feel for them(you) it doesn't mean we all have to make the same sacrifices - sorry...

Everybody lies...

Katey x

Perhaps you don't get to keep up with the other threads on the forum. But this subject has been brought up many times before. I understand that the search function doesn't work all that well, so let's go over it again.
First:

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Originally Posted by Jenniferathome

. Event he ones who are divorced say that cross dressing was not the reason.

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Don't you read other people's comments at all? Crossdressing was THE reason my wife divorced me, and I've written that every time we discuss this. It even becomes a topic discussed by many others who've gone through this as well.
Now.
I can't speak for everyone, but there are quite a number of us who had stopped crossdressing for a long time, in my case many years, before I started dating my wife to be. I really thought that I had 'beaten it'; that it was just a phase I had gone through. It was in the past, so just like, oh, someone who had killed a hundred of the enemy in a war, it simply wasn't something that I felt I needed to bring up. No one tells their SO everything; we tell what we think we should tell, what we think they need to know. Crossdressing? Something we did in the past? Why burden her with that? I was molested for seven years, should I tell her all about that in detail too? Of course not. At that point, I was perfectly functional normally. I had a good job, I could have sex just as well as anyone else. Things were good. And, had I not lost my job and wound up in turmoil, I'd probably still be married with kids already grown. But things don't always turn out the way we want.

Besides, women don't tell us everything either. They do the same; they tell us what they want us to know (though, my ex didn't tell me stuff either, things she should have, so we're pretty even on the 'what should have been told' list', but of course she didn't see it that way, she, too, thought what she hid wasn't important).

The problem that arises, is that when it's going on, we don't understand what they want to know, and neither the reverse is true either. The problem becomes great when they decide that we deceived them, and what they might have deceived us about isn't of the same importance, so they feel entitled to be more upset than we are, forgetting that each person is the only one who can decide what they, themselves will be upset about.

So there you have it. Just because we erred on what we figured the women would be so upset about, doesn't give them the reason to go ballistic. Everyone makes mistakes, and, we all ARE still the same person they married; we haven't changed. The only change is in how they decide to interpret who and what we are. The change isn't in us. It's in THEM. And they blame us for that. And that isn't fair, either.

Let me address this:

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Originally Posted by donnaS

Wow.
The divorce rate would sky rocket.

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you miss the point. It would sky rocket because you lied. HOWEVER, if you had honest upfront the marriage (if you allowed you SO to decide for herself instead of taking it upon your self to hide it to start with) would be just as strong or stronger. The lie started long before the marriage usually but even if this was something you decided after getting married, keeping it from her is unfair and controlling. You see, SOs have minds. You may THINK you know what is best for both of you but you don't. And NOT allowing her to make her own decision is... well manipulative

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Many many closeted CD out there.

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their choice. They choose to be in the closet for a myriad of reasons. Some very sound. But hiding it from the SO isn't a good reason. You will be caught. In fact I would bet that most already have and the SO is ignoring it hoping you will tell them OR it will go away

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And DADT relationships. They can only sneak around. Unless maybe they don't like to see thier kids due to a divorce.

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Definition of DADT...The SO KNOWS, you don't flaunt it. It implies the So already has knowledge OR you have an understanding. Not getting into the whole "not seeing kids because of divorce" because first THAT is just as manipulative as sneaking and two, courts in the US won't use crossdressing against you in visitation or custody

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

First:

Don't you read other people's comments at all? Crossdressing was THE reason my wife divorced me, and I've written that every time we discuss this. It even becomes a topic discussed by many others who've gone through this as well.
Now.

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going to throw an objection to this. It isn't the crossdressing (and you are quoting the crossdressers reasons, read the GGs reasons) It is the LIE and the lack of trust that leads to divorce

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Originally Posted by Laurana

This is one of those things that should be brought up BEFORE the other person starts to have feelings for you so they can have the choice of wanting to be apart of it or not.....not after.

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I wouldn't necessarily say your opinion is wrong, but what of those of us who truly believed they didn't need to dress any more when they met their future wives only for the desire to surface again many years later. It's not always that simple and Kimberley May sums up reasons why many don't.

Everyone has there own reasons why they did or didn't confide in there SO about their secret. From a culture standpoint and depending on what generation you are from this may or may not dictate what you are willing to share with your SO. Believe me I’m not trying to offer up an excuse here, rather its just an observation based on society's rules. I grew up in the 80’s and in a catholic household where an activity such as cross dressing would be viewed as sinful, I Knew this was a subject that wasn’t going to be talked about over dinner or ever. At some point this caused me to suppress my feelings a lot of the time and quite frankly carried over into adulthood.
I told my wife before we were married because she needed to know what she was getting into. Honestly if i didn't confide in her when I did and she found after 14 years I'm not sure how it wouldn't of turned out.

I'm one who thinks you need to be up front about yourself before the first date.
If she has a problem with it its her choice to pursue the relationship or not. Its not fair to her to hide that part of you.
If you have a problem talking about your CDing thats your fault not hers.
By telling her it shows you care about what she thinks and that you are man enough not to hide things from her.It called trust.

Just a few ramblings from an old fart... Probably a little off in the head, so ignore me...

I always get aggravated when I read the replies from the people who are very happy to stay in the closet. If you are happy hiding it away, then that is fine, although I'm not really sure why you dress beyond the quick satisfaction.

But I think these conversations are more aptly aimed at those of us who are not content to have to hide who we are, and want to find our unicorn, aka accepting and supporting GGs, as well as being out to the world in general. There are many flavors of us in this world, and just because you are happy with your status quo, does not mean the rest of us have to be.

I have seen many discussions of divorce, where it was directly attributed to this issue. Also, I have seen many people talk about divorce and say it was for other reasons, and while some may believe this was not the cause of their divorce, it is a safe bet that it was a contributing factor.

Many people are afraid to bring it up early for fear of who she may tell. Is it better after being together for 10, 20, or more years, when she knows all of your friends and family, and then have her telling everybody you know after a nasty divorce?

i could go on and on... But it would fall on deaf ears I'm afraid.

Sometimes Miss, CDing caused my divorce, too. She couldn't be married to a crossdresser. She said so.
It's highly arrogant for other people, who don't know me, my ex, or anything about our marriage, to know what did or didn't cause our divorce. Yes, many gg's say it was the lie, but that doesn't mean it's always the lie. Sometimes it's the CDing. To the "it's the lie" pushers, you can't cookie-cutter this.
To the OP, we can agree on one thing, when you said "I just don't get it". You're right, you don't. Many threads over the years on the "reveal trap" explain it well.

I love it when the "holier than thou" brigade comes out....such fun listening to their pontificating.

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Originally Posted by NicoleScott

To the "it's the lie" pushers, you can't cookie-cutter this.

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This is may be the most accurate statement said today. There are too many flavors. We are not one size fits all!

I definitely agree that we should be upfront about ourselves. They deserve the truth just as we do, just as anyone does. That truth though.... Sometimes we ourselves don't always know that truth. In my case, I couldn't truly accept myself as a CDer. I had Cd'd, but would go many years without ever doing it. Honestly, maybe a dozen times from the time I 1st tried it, when I was 22, until the time which I bared my secret desires and infrequent practice of dressing to my 2nd wife which was almost 3 decades.

I did not tell my wife as I had not told my 1st wife, or anyone else. The reason, I was going to take this horrible secret problem of mine to my grave alone. In my head was not a conflict at the time. I was simply going to keep my dreadful secret of female desire to myself, as I always had.

2 years into my relationship with my now wife, I began to feel an increasing urge to dress. On a few occasions when I was alone, I would sneek and dress in what clothes she has that somewhat fit me. Once again, I beat back the urge and went into hardcore repression mode. Then the engagement got closer, my attention was on marriage and I really wasn't thinking too much about it all.

Shortly after the wedding, about a month in, it came back again, stronger than ever. Again, a couple more sneek times of dressing. I was growing ever weaker to fight the female demon inside me. I remember the day when I finally said to myself, I can't fight this anymore. I was in the shower and I realized I would have to com clean. Sooner or later if I keep on this way, I will get caught. It took me a few months.... I began showing little more fem things, I started shaving my legs.... dropping small hints. I would say something a little off the wall. One night, one of those little comments went just a little too far. Then, bam, the discussion was on and I revealed it.

In hindsight, me not telling her was wrong. I have always preached about how wrong it is. Wrong for them, wrong for us. It causes so much pain, anxiety. distrust, communication issues. The list of negatives can be endless. If only I had been upfront since early on. Who knows what would have happened. My wife today says she does not know exactly how it would be. She doesn't know that she would have married me or not. .We had known each other for 20 years prior to getting together. What is certain had I told her is that we would have at least been friends and there would have been honesty. Perhaps our relationship would have grown still. Perhaps she would have married me anyway. She would have done so knowing and it would have all been so much easier then 3 and a half years into the relationship, 6 months into the marriage. The only issue we would have had is the CDing itself, and by the time we got married, that would have been figured out as well. The last 3 years has been a hard time of trust rebuilding, and re establishing our marriage as to who I really am, and how she deals with it. There is now some increased insecurity on the marriage lasting. We love each other, for that there is no doubt. She is confident that I will always love her and honor her, but, what the future holds is now less certain for her than it once was. Something that may never get back to from where the feelings of certainty was before the reveal.

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Originally Posted by bok4fun

This is may be the most accurate statement said today. There are too many flavors. We are not one size fits all!

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Like you and Nicole said, we are not all one size and sorry to say, many will never understand that.

I agree that it is usually best to be open and honest, but like every other issue we usually discuss, every situation is different and absolutes are simply not attainable.

We can't criticize all who feel they have to remain silent,from their spouses or SOs. We just don't know the circumstances that each person has to live with. We don’t know the risks of disclosure. We don’t even know whether a person realized they would continue to crossdress after they married and did not feel they had anything to hide early in their relationship. Although honesty, trust and open communications are very important for healthy relationships, circumstances and personalities can be quite different. Sometimes it might be better to remain secret, even with risk of eventual discovery, because there may be greater risks involved with immediate self-disclosure.

Anxiety and mental illnesses are unfortunately commonplace. Disclosure might be hurtful or not even possible with any degree of understanding or acceptance. Some spouses have strong religious convictions which would be very threatened and simple disclosure of an infrequent and private behavior might jeopardize the entire marriage. There are many other considerations that closet crossdressers might face that best keeps them in the closet, such as children, family, living quarters and career concerns.

We often hide other secrets from our spouses and loved ones. Many of us would not think it wrong to remain silent about our work worries, personal medical concerns, disappointments and internal fears and doubts. We often do not want to cause worry for those we love. Non-disclosure is typically admired in those circumstances and not considered lying, but we are always quick to belittle those who have to hide their crossdressing secret, even if they sincerely want to prevent certain hurt and pain. I think it is judgmental to criticize everyone who remains in-the-closet. Some really can’t or shouldn’t disclose their intimate secret.

I agree that openness is usually best, and that eventual discovery often is more hurtful. But not everyone can tell their spouses they like to wear panties, or that they occasionally need to wear a dress, because their consequences would definitely and immediately be significantly worse than remaining silent with risk of possible discovery.

Dr. Heather is in the house! Very well put!

I don't see why they would keep it a secret before they get married, yeah if they start after marriage that's one thing.
I told my current girl friend before we began dating and it was one of the best decisions that I've done honestly. It made our relationship even more open, even as friends.

If you're going to marry someone wouldn't you want to be completely honest with them even before marriage. I don't know why this should be a secret from the love of your life.

I disagree with all this "one size doesn't fit all" nonsense. We ALL didn't or don't tell because we are afraid and ashamed. It's just that simple.

The "divorce" reasoning as an explanation for not telling is complete crap. But it does make for a great excuse to not admit your are afraid and ashamed.

Well, I've been reading threads and comments on the site for years. I think this subject has been beaten to death. And, I suspect you already know the answers that will flow forth. I will not deal with the issue of disclosure before a relationship gets serious.

How about all those relationships I've read about in threads where there has been full disclosure prior to getting serious or marriage where the wife does a complete turnaround? "Hey, I know this is our first date, but, I have to tell you that I love wearing women's clothing, a wig and makeup and going out for strolls and shopping!"

"Oh, you're OK with that! It's cool! Boy, am I happy. All the other women I've dated just ran off yelling "queer, yuck" or something else to degrade my manhood. You're a gem."

Here comes the bride. The I DO's are said. They live happily ever after.....NOT!

Sure, we have heard it time and time again, and, we'll hear it tomorrow too.

Rant is over.

It's easier to push someone away or divorce than disclose what might haunt you socially the rest of your life.
I was threatened with that after my divorce before I remarried. Yes, she had pictures for proof. So no, I didn't want to tell anyone again. Trust issue I guess.
Plus, the CD thing will go away if you ignore it right? Didn't work for me.

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Originally Posted by Katey888

Everybody lies...

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No wonder your signature includes a House quote. :D

Besides, I agree with you. Marriages are about more than the way we present ourselves. And if marriages were to break every time one of the components lies, the divorce rate would be 110% (percentage is correct, it's used by NBA and NFL players all the time)

When I met my current wife, CDing wasn't part of my life, so there wasn't anything to discuss or disclose.

It was the early 1980s

In the 1970s I'd been through all sorts of "over the edge" experiences and CDing was just one of several that came with having an exploring mind. Part of that was my first marriage - we explored lots and and even went out several times dressed as sisters, but at the time it was just a gas - something outrageous to do. We explored lots of things to challenge conventional norms, and also were heavily into mind bending substances. I reformed looking for a different direction, really just looking for a life direction, and we split. Very amicably as we realised we had different paths to follow.

It was a number of years after meeting my current partner that the CDing came back. We had kids by then. She is from a very different background and not the adventurous sort at all.

In some ways I would love to "come clean" - there are a lot of old secrets I've been able to share with her, but always at what I have felt was the right time, when she has said something to make me think she would be accepting - I haven't always been right however, but we've got over it as it was something in the past.

CDing has not yet felt like the "right time". It may well never be. So I stay in the closet.

Why?

Well it really has to do with protecting someone else's feelings. I'd really like to think that if I found the right time, then we could share it, and all would be Hunky Dory .

But what if I am wrong? Well, we've been together for over 30 years and she has her whole life invested in a relationship. What if it was something she just couldn't handle? Is my need really that important? Can I actually manage to suppress the feelings for the greater good?

Who knows? Certainly not the people here who seem to claim that being in the closet is morally wrong. The risk in coming out is that I make someone who has been a life partner very unhappy. Do I want to take that risk? Or is it better for me to have to suppress something and suffer myself?

Folks, there are no right and wrong answers - we all have our own circumstances and as they say, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.

Sharing with your SO is a decision that each individual must make for themselves. And PLEASE for those who have shared successfully, don't pose as saints whose way is the only true path. Because the risk in coming out is to cause a lot of pain for someone you may actually care about. There is a balance between a desire for openness and a desire for self. Yes, we only have one life to live, but so does our SO. And they may not want an unhappy ending.

So I only get to enjoy dressing when I feel it is safe and I'm not going to cause hurt (and I really do indulge at those times). Is there a risk of causing hurt through accidental discovery? Yes. But is it a bigger hurt risk than disclosing?
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No right and no wrong. Please don't judge those of us who remain closeted. We have our reasons and they may just be very valid. And very loving.

Reading comprehension is obviously a lost art!

Jeank

thanks for your candid and wise reply and showing that in some instances non-disclosure is an act of caring - ultimately even with our closest soul mates we have some distinct and individual traits - we are all unique

Fiona

I knew who I was and what I enjoyed doing BEFORE I met my current wife.
I told her within a week of meeting her about my crossdressing.
I figured either she would accept me for who I am, or she would leave. We have been together for 14 1/2 years and married for 12 1/2 years. I never wanted it to be a surprise for her later.

"hi! you're beautiful! and before i say anymore and to avoid either of us wasting our precious time, i have to tell you i like dressing like a woman. So if you find my honesty disturbing it's ok to look the other way and i'll leave you alone to this starry night."
23 years 2 kids and so many wonderfully intense loving moments later and we are happier than ever.
that's how i found my tall blonde Scandinavian love of my life.
i made a firm decision early on to ignore most social norms that unfairly conflicted with my innate desire to reveal truth at all costs and have found society slowly coming around to my way of thinking. i cant understand why people decide to get together whilst hiding their true self unless you believe this is just a read thru. i know life can be hard but you must bend it to your will less it breaks you.

Laurana, I tend to agree with you. I found nothing offensive in your observations. I have personally adhered pretty closely to to these points. I have also found that the best therapist is an honest exchange between the 2 people involved. And for personal issue honsety with a mirror. Outsiders are not vested that is true but I aint in the habit of trusting anyone but me or my wife with our business personal or financial. I learned long ago everyone has advise and opinions and just like porta-potties some stink worse than others and none are my own.

Why do we lie to our spouses? I don't think most of us start out with that intention. Speaking only for myself--although I suspect that many others have an experience like my first marriage--I was totally enthralled by the woman I was planning to marry, and although I had a long history of crossdressing, I thought that my marriage would be the end of the crossdressing. I expected that I would never be dishonest with her about anything (except by omitting any discussion of what I felt was a shameful part of my past). But then things happen: conflicts and difficulties arise, and neither she nor I dealt with them as effectively as we should have. And little by little, I toyed with some old ways of finding pleasure and satisfaction. Influenced by my own long history of shame about my crossdressing, I was certain that my wife would not respond well to finding out about my it. So little by little, and more and more, I lied. To all of my failures in this regard--the things that I did that I shouldn't have done, and the things that I failed to do that I should have done--I plead guilty. My second marriage was different. The failure of my first marriage, which was primarily because of my crossdressing and my dishonesty about it, was a searing emotional experience for me. That pain helped me to make a commitment that I could actually keep in my second marriage. I never dressed up again, even though the fantasies never stopped. I know that for many, that's not a viable approach; we're all different. I'm just trying to respond to the original question about lying and why I did such a destructive thing.

honey i ve got suntun to tell you !!!

what did you forget to take out the trash again….

no, no, no ,no. I'm a crossdresser,….

oh i was just reading in crossdresser daily, article about the caitlyn affect…what kind of crossdresser are you…

huh, i dunno, their are different kinds ????

why yes dear many, many, are you just a crossdresser, crossdresser, or you just do it cause the clothes feel good, or maybe a fetish crossdresser cause you like feeling sexy and get a little too excited, or like a drag dresser to entertain.....

well i thin I'm just a normal crossdresser, not one or those weird or gross ones ???

are you sure, you may be one of those crossdressers that are not gay but fantasize about being with another man while dressed…could it be that….or maybe, maybe just maybe your gender fluid and want to be both a man and a women, is that it ???

well I'm kinda not too sure now !!

how about pansexual or bisexual, as long as you present the way your feeling that day….

absolutely not, not that ….. but maybe if arrrghhh how do i figure this out i just came to terms that I'm a crossdresser, now I'm second guessing, i feel like i in denial again…

are you one of those crossdressers that is two years from having a sex change…….?

NOT that definitely not that…its just dressing, just clothes….

I've read it happens, are you sure, you know that technically your transgender, its an umbrella term….

NO there is NO way I'm transgender, I'm a man that dresses in women's clothes that all !!!! its perfectly normal, nothing odd about it at all !!!

then you want a DADT relationship, we wont talk about it and you'll assume your free to dive into the pink fog and assume you can do whatever you want because now i know about the dressing and thats the way i think i can best deal with it.

you know about the pink fog ?? ok if thats what you want, it sure beats a divorce, losing my job, finding out who my real friends and family are…..feeling more guilt and shame than i ever did maybe even contemplating ending it all…….yea ok lets go with DADT…..

are you kidding me….wait while you join a forum, post suggestive pictures of yourself put other crossdresser down cause they don't do it right, hang around for two years while you decide how far you go down the spectrum only to find out you knew you wanted to be a women your whole life and could only decide after spending our savings on therapy and buying thousands on girly bits only to decide to go on HRT and find a highly recommended surgeon….do you think i have that kind of patience….

maybe i should have thought this out more…

yea maybe you should have thought this out better, you thought it was going to be easy…blah blah blah…look I'm wearing panties and heels, pretty neat huh…. hears my attorneys card…..im taking the house car and the kids….


yep its easy to judge someone you not looking directly in the eye, I've always believed this is NOT a one size fits all community, can you really judge someone before you walk a mile in they're heels,

your morals and philosophy may differ but it gives you no right to judge someone if there beliefs are not in line with yours,

rant over

First of all I want to state my post does not address people who are already married.

If you are getting into a serious relationship with someone then I believe you should disclose the fact the you are cd/tg. Actually the sooner you disclose the better. As we have seen on this board, a lot of problems have been caused because of non disclosure before marriage.

As to the point that if you disclose she will out you to everybody in the community. If you have this low level of trust in a person then you should definitely not get into a relationship with that person. Why get into a relationship with someone you have doubts about.

It seems a lot of people get into a relationship thinking that they will stop dressing en femme (cold turkey) and never do it again. This seems to me to be a very dangerous gamble. People have quit to only see the desire come back a year, 10 years or 20 years later. If you are thinking of persuing this path, then you should definitely get counseling, and I would add someone who understands gender issues.

For a lot of us being cd/tg/ts is just part of who we are. If it is part of who you are, is it worth sacrificing who you are for a relationship. Also if it is a major part of who you are then being able to suddenly quit permanently is not likely to be successful over the long term.

For me I have decided that I am not going to sacrifice who I am just so i can have a relationship. There is just no one on this earth worth that kind of sacrifice. I have come to the conclusion that having a committed relationship is not going to be a part of my future. Even if a partner initially is accepting, that is no guarantee that they will continue to be accepting. Often times someone can be accepting in the beginning because they want to keep the relationship alive as much as you do, but then you get married and they become non accepting.

The fact is that in life we cannot have it all. Often, sacrifices have to be made. So it comes down to priorities, and I think my priority is to be true to myself. If I were to sacrifice my tg/ts self then I would be miserable and very unhappy. This is just not a healthy way to live.

To marry someone else without disclosure is potentially subjecting someone else to a life they did not sign up for. To me it is really selfish to not disclose.

If you decide to get into a relationship with someone and marry them, then I think it would be best to be fully out to everyone. Often times it seems a spouse becomes less accepting because they are worried about what family, friends, acquaintances and neighbors will think. Being fully out you eliminate this from becoming an issue. Also, you need to be dressed en femme in front of them often and also while out in public with them, so you can determine how truly accepting they are.

In conclusion, I have to be who I am, and I cannot sacrifice this for a relationship. Making this sacrifice would not be good for me or the person I would potentially be entering into a lifetime relationship with. Also disclosure which can be bad for the short term in losing a relationship will be great for the long term when you avoid a messy split up and divorce.

I don't believe it is as simple as saying the CD is bad for lying/hiding it from your SO.

I think most of us agree that is is better to tell the difficult truth to our SO then hide it and hope they wont find out, but to toss all CDs who have some type of fear or anxiety to tell their SO into a "you're a lair and deserve what you get" is inaccurate for all and a bit too extreme a position in my opinion.

There are many factors that would prevent a CD from disclosing such an intimate detail so openly or even easily... Just think about society... there are still laws in the USA that allow the local government to toss CDs into jail just for being dressed and it wasn't that long ago, in our life times, that this was illegal in most states... Also consider the social ramifications for young CDs/TGs being thrown out and homeless because family/community rejection (especially in the more conservative/religious groups) not to mention the violence against CDs that still takes place to this very day. Add all of this on top of potential job loss and social embarrassment if an SO decides to "punish" you for sharing this intimate detail with them. Some CDs dind't even know what they had of if something was wrong with them or even if it was something they could possible control/remove from our lives... to expect a CD to know exactly why they are doing it and to be sure they disclose it to their SO when they may not even know what it is themselves!? Heck, the science behind TG and CD is still very early, how can a CD be expected to know if this was something they could not even "cure" and lead a "normal" life with their SO? This is just to tip of the iceberg. If you are one who is not capable of even considering these as potential risks to the CD then it is just sad. To have other CDs come down on those who fear risking these types of results... It's just sad.

If society was much more progressive and accepting of CDs/TGs than it would be a different story but to claim a CD "deserves" some sort of punishment for protecting their very life is a bridge too far in my opinion... we need to be more considerate of each other and hear out why a CD chooses to keep it a secrete instead of standing in an ivory tower of personal SO acceptance and pointing the fingers at other CDs who are in very different and potential dangerous situations.

So before anyone drops scorn on CDs/TGs for not disclosing all details of their life to an SO, please consider some of these stats and stories we see very often and try to be more understanding/open to why som CDs/TGs fear telling their SOs... Sure we all agree it is fair, right and proper for the SO to know so they can make a decision that is right for them but also know they too are a product of society, which can be potentially dangerous to us in many ways:

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/t...nder-violence/

http://www.transequality.org/issues/...imination-laws

http://americablog.com/2012/11/advic...r-husband.html

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...sing-laws-u-s/


Let's try to be more compassionate for each other and try to hear why some CDs choose to keep it a secret from their SOs and possible offer sound advice depending on their circumstance and not toss them to the side... society does that enough already.

It's not a lie if no one asks.

My wife made a statement two weeks ago " you probably have dresses hidden someplace" I said ya a nice wedding dress.

She never asked if I had dresses hidden.

Well I bought three dresses this week and since she didn't tell me she bought Burger King I feel I don't have to tell her about the dresses.

I told my wife while we were still dating. She accepted and supported my cross dressing for the 40 years of our marriage. She is now in heaven, God bless her soul. I am now hoping to find another to share my life with. I intend to disclose my predilection for wearing woman's clothes in any relationship that gets serious. I'm too old to beat around the bush with this issue.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Joni T

If you have to sneak around doing something then you probably shouldn't be doing it. I'm one of the lucky ones that doesn't have the dressing problem-ever.
Jon

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That only comes close to applying if the relationship is healthy. Otherwise, all bets are off.

Following advice from regulated professionals (including medical advice) routinely gets me into trouble unless I have arms-length proof of necessity and correctness.

Well we can't go back and redo whatever we did. The pain in this thread staggers me. I've told my story here before but I think it's relevant again in this thread.

In my first marriage there wasn't much to disclose, she knew I liked lingerie, and 30 years and three kids later when it all came unstuck, my steadily growing and stealthy cd habit became the "problem" but we both knew it was just the tip of the iceberg, one of many many issues that had come to divide us. We had grown apart, we each had run out of sympathy for the other's problems, we divorced, messily and expensively and tediously.

Burned to the quick, aching and despairing, I resolved that my transvestism could not be the issue ever again, it was too close to my core. I started going out pretty in NYC two or three days a week, looking for events, bars, classes, meet ups where I might find friendship and acceptance. A year into that (2002), dressed as best I could in those days, I accepted an acquaintances' casual invitation to a cocktail party and there met a woman who found me interesting, who became my girlfriend, and who in 2010 became my dArling wife. Out from the start, no secrets. All in.

My bet was, if I keep it a secret, I'm hoping to win the lottery, but I understand the math only too well. But if I am out with it, then I am treating the women I meet as adults who can make their own judgements, provided they have full information. I get the issue of truth and trust off the table in the first place, it's just static anyway. And guess what, I won.

Doors close, doors open. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I dunno.

Lying is bad, ummkay...

It only leads to distress and woe. It WILL come out sooner or later.

If you are hiding that big of a truth from your partner, are they really your partner?

Not to contribute to lawyer's fees or anything, but jeez.. What did the poet say?

Quote:

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To thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.

- William Shakespeare

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- MM

[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

Quote:

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Originally Posted by fiona frisson

thanks for your candid and wise reply and showing that in some instances non-disclosure is an act of caring - ultimately even with our closest soul mates we have some distinct and individual traits - we are all unique

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Yes, we are. If you were an axe-murderer, hiding that would also be an 'act of caring'. After all, you don't want to spook the Missus, eh?

Cripes, people. Stop making excuses for keeping it hidden. You are only going to hurt them anyway when it all spills out of your closet... and it will spill out eventually.

BE YOURSELF

I heard the same excuses from closeted gay folks back in the day. It wasn't any better then. It didn't help then either. It still blew things up when it came out.

The destructive force is only making way for the creative one that follows. (Kali - Hinduism)

/love you anyway

- MM

Amazing, all the people on this thread who assume that what they think's true for themselves, MUST be true for all other people. That would be like me declaring that:

Not a single crossdresser was born that way. I know, because I wasn't. So it's not possible.

Or even better, "As oranges develop that great, sweet orange taste, they develop a lovely orange color. It's true for oranges, so it must be true for everything". So, if I put on that self tanning lotion, and I start to turn orange, I, too, will have a sweet, orange flavor'.

Or, how about nose picking? Can anyone here say that they have absolutely NEVER put a finger past the opening in their nostril for any reason? EVER? OK. Now go put a sign on your car telling everyone that you are a nose picker. After all, you did it once when there was a whistling snot you couldn't blow out, right? Tell the world. No qualifiers; no 'I only did it once', 'I only do it if something is obstructing my nostril'. Just tell the world that you are a nose picker. Gotta be honest, right? Tell everything you've ever done. Ever pee on a tree? Tell that too, that you pee outdoors on trees. Doesn't matter if you haven't done it since you were a kid. You're a tree pee-er. Ever spit? Ever? Tell everyone that you like to spit. Ever think about what it would be like to give oral to a guy? Tell everyone that you think about male male oral sex. Remember, no qualifiers, you think about homosexual sex, doesn't matter if you only thought about it once when you were 15 and confused. Everything you did 40 years ago defines who you are today. Everything. Now go write your biography, and don't leave out anything. It's going to be bigger than an encyclopedia.

The amount of nonsense I read here sometimes astounds me.

We didn't tell them because to us, it no longer had anything to do with who we were at that point in our lives, or who we would be for the rest of our lives. What is so hard to understand about that?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Amazing, all the people on this thread who assume that what they think's true for themselves, MUST be true for all other people.

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What is true to you is true to YOU. Your truth does not effect what my world is like.

I say what I say based on MY life. My wild, odd, cross-gendered, poly-amorous, pagan-hippe life.

But that is what I have to say.. maybe that rings with people, maybe it doesn't. I may be criticized, I may be mocked. However, if that makes ONE life better then it was worth it.

<3

- MM

I never really lied to my wife. When we were dating I thought my crossdressing was in the past and needn't be brought up. Fast forward 10 years when I started dressing again. I slowly brought my desires to her attention. She wasn't all for it at first but figured it was just a passing fantasy. Fast forward another 16 years to today. She is totally ok with my dressing and is open to me someday fully transitioning. I don't think we would have ever got to this point if I had lied to her or hid it from her.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sometimes_miss

Don't you read other people's comments at all?

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Never let a few facts destroy a great theory!

It seems it's only the ones who were lucky enough to tell and have the support are the holier than thou's who believe one size fits all, to come out with it regardless of consequences, because they seem to think "I'm alright Jill, as I'm now a special out and loud and proud professional CD'er which automatically gives me higher opinions over those losers still in the closet"..... Um, nah!

Why tell a new girlfriend before you even get to know her?, that to me sounds very foolhardy. She might turn out to be the worst most untrustful person to keep such a personal secret, and before you know it all her friends will know and possibly your friends and family, gossip is like a nasty spreading virus. Not every ex GG can be trusted to keep that secret. Not everyone's family and friends will be automatically accepting. Maybe the CD'er will be totally ostracised and labeled a pervert by many. Maybe their life will actually be made tougher rather than easier. So not everybody should be forced into being loud and proud about it just because it worked for others. One size does NOT fit all. It's arrogantly naive to assume it does. Sometimes honesty is not always the best policy.

I only plan telling her IF I know that she will be supportive and would never tell, otherwise I will keep it secret. And if we move in together, well that will be my conscious choice knowing she wouldn't be supportive if she knew, which means I will give it up for her. That would not be denial, it would be acceptance of the situation. What's wrong that that?

Judy-Something.... Seeing as your wife didn't tell you she bought burger king,you didn't feel the need to tell her you bought 3 dresses. Are you for real????
The lies&the bs i hear on this site astounds me. I read this somewhere 'crossdressing is a selfish behaviour'. And it is. Seems to me many men don't give a toss about the wife/gf as long as they get their 'fix' by dressing as a woman.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kimberley May

It seems it's only the ones who were lucky enough to tell and have the support are the holier than thou's who believe one size fits all, to come out with it regardless of consequences, because they seem to think "I'm alright Jill, as I'm now a special out and loud and proud professional CD'er which automatically gives me higher opinions over those losers still in the closet"..... Um, nah!

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Umm, no.

I'm not 'holier than thou', I'm a guy with two marriages under my belt, two poly relationships, several 'open' play partners, and a lot of broken things. I have experienced what will work and what won't. I'm just trying to be pragmatic and honest. This isn't a crusade (although you could rightfully hang that on me for some posts) I'm just trying to be direct. I have had the luxury of being able to be free with myself, and sometimes things -still- broke.

My message is more that 'honesty is the best policy'. If you need to hide that, well.. not much more I can say.

The more of us who were out there and didn't care, the less we would have to be afraid.

As far as the 'new girlfriend' idea.. why are you out in the world presenting as your genetic gender if that isn't who you are?

That is kind of my point.

BE GIRLY if that is who you are. Don't present in a way that is alien to how you feel. You know, wear some pink or purple. Show some 'soft'. Don't win that partner all butched up and then be surprised when they flip about your girl side.

You need to be yourself BEFORE you engage them that way, or else it isn't fair to THEM.

"To thine own self be true"

PM me if you want. This is all true and I stand by it.

- MM

Quote:

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Originally Posted by mechamoose

As far as the 'new girlfriend' idea.. why are you out in the world presenting as your genetic gender if that isn't who you are?

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But my genetic gender is who I am too. I never said I wasn't. I'm perfectly happy being in drab guy mode too. I've had no identity issues with it and still don't. I guess this alter ego is to get away from things for a while. To be someone else. It has a strange calming effect on me I can't explain why. Maybe it's the feel of the softer fabrics, and feeling closer to femininity as I lacked female company for much of my life. Nothing really to do with wanting to change my genetics.

As I said before this isn't "a one size fits all" thing. Not every CD'er wants to change their genetic gender. I will only tell her if I find she will be understanding and accepting, otherwise I won't tell her and I'll give it up. Doing so isn't being in denial, it's just unselfish acceptance of a situation in consideration for her. As I said I've had no desire to change gender for real. I'm still very much quite emotionally attached to my meat and two veg, and women.