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When I have dressed and been intimate, not dressed but been with a guy, or by myself, after my "release " i get an almost overwhelming sense of guilt and to some extent, revulsion. I like what I just did, but these feelings are intense at first, and quickly dissipate (within 30 minutes). I'm trying to explore slowly, but it has been a big factor in my hesitation to keep going.
Has anyone experienced this? How have you delt with these feelings?
Does your guilt stem from having a wife/children at home but being with a guy (or on your own)? Maybe it's not just the "dressing"?
Guilt …
Do you have an open marriage or your cheating with men ….you say your wife is supportive.
If open marriage then …?
Just some clarification please about the guilt.( this is in response to being with men on the side from your post )
If you are cheating and not in an open marriage….then I understand the guilt. CDing is not an excuse for cheating. It just isn’t.
ADD after explaining
After your explanation now, as no cheating but still guilt , I hope you learn to accept yourself
You are one of the lucky ones with an accepting wife.
Years ago as a teen I would feel tremendous guilt when I masturbated, that it was "sinful". My upbringing was conservative and my mother flew into rages when she twice found porn in my room and she'd insist I wear pajamas when in bed for 2 examples. Sex was never discussed, and I never saw my parents being romantic/intimate - quite Victorian!
What I'm questioning is whether you have properly accepted your CD yet. We all get turned on and look for release, and we "get carried away" with our lust which can easily override our "steady-state" social norms where masturbation, porn, CD, homosexuality is still frowned upon. After "release" then those old social norms quickly reestablish themselves and we feel guilt. Society still wants us very much in our labelled boxes.
I don't have any guilt. I can say that some thoughts I have which help lead up to climax can immediately and drastically change the moment after release. I don't know why you feel guilt. I'm not surprised that something which makes you feel really great (in the moment) suddenly turns to something somewhat opposite.
As a side note When we climax the brain fixates on whatever (or who ever) brought us to that moment. I think it's for mating purposes and preservation of the species that we continue to want that person and to reproduce or at least repeat the events that could lead to reproduction. It reinforces a "learned behavior". This is why with fetishes when the most random thing brings us to climax we want it more and more.
Not sure if this relates to your situation. That's all I got. Lol
I never felt any guilt after "Pleasuring myself" after realizing there was no "moral" prohibition against it. Indeed I accidently learned how to do it when I was about eight and didn't know what it really was. A kind of "personal trick" I could do under stress. Since another person was NOT involved I felt I was "in the clear" morality-wise.
And YES, I had ALWAYS ended my dress-up sessions with masturbation and I Immediately discovered upon "that feeling" that my urge to dress or stay dressed IMMEDIATELY turned itself OFF. I couldn't remove the clothing and makeup FAST enough. I didn't feel the desire to dress or entertained the prospect for several days afterwards. To this day I end my sessions the same way, and with similar results. I think this reaction is the primary indicator of being a Cross-Dresser. I can only speculate how this might affect Gay or Trans people, perhaps some might reply and we all might learn something. In any event, I cannot imagine ENDING a dress-up session any other way. Without a "release" to get back on "an even keel" and make a "clean" return to male mode.
It's just an interaction between how you are wired with that intense desire to propel your genes into the future.
There's a void when the intensity dissipates after shangri la or apogee or whatever. Without that intense desire, guilt, as a result of society inflicted faux morality, fills the emotional void.
At a young age, I would purge frequently until I drew my own line in the sand. There is nothing wrong with seeking pleasure. But, it is paramount to respect commitment and vows.
Priorities are important.
Everyone thanks for keeping it simple.
No need for details of your sexual activities.
This is on OPEN forum where it can be seen by anyone.
Since posted here in this section ….be respectful and not TMI.
Would like to keep it open but if we have to keep editing sexual details…it will be deleted.
We are adults and know how things work….with open forum who knows who is reading so keep that in mind.
I used to experience exactly what you are describing. I would feel so ashamed of myself and so guilty I would throw everything I was wearing away, admonishing myself that there must be something wrong with me, that I didn't need to do this (dress), and I would never do it again. Of course I WOULD do it again and, while it took a long time, I realized I DID need to dress.
It took a lot of research into crossdressing, a lot of introspective thinking and a little counselling (and maybe aging a few years) but now days, yes there is a little arousal when I see myself as the beautiful woman in the mirror but mostly I feel a bit sad when I have to put Claire back in her closet and return to my male life.
My parents were not religious; I cannot remember when we ever went to church as a family. But, when it came to "self pleasure" they went freaking nuts and actually tried to catch me in the act when taking a bath. If that was no enough, their attitude on homosexuality was homophobic. Back in the 1960's to be a cross dresser got a man identified as a homosexual in the most vulgar terms possible. Yes, women's clothing did lead to "self pleasure," followed by intense revulsion of self; lots of self loathing and confusion. Here's a pre-teen lusted after Annette Funicello of the Mickey Moue Show or older when Annette was in all those beach party movies. How could that be? It was obvious from all the street talk not all young boys were mentally tortured by crazy parents. I was destined to go to hell, for sure.
How does one deal with those conflicted feelings? A lot of self therapy.
Stephanie,Quote:
Originally Posted by Stephanie47
I feel your pain. My parents met in a church choir but were never really religous around us, but boy was my mother strict. In the UK we had two sitcoms that summed it up (caricatgure of course): "Keeping up Appearances" and "Sorry!". Boy oh boy, the 80's were pretty grim! A lifetime of fighting all the nonsense.
Ultimately for me at least it needs the decision to be made: "put up or shut up". In the end of the day I will need to make a fundamental decision to get rid of it: either I be honest about myself (not just CD) and risk losing my mother's "love" and losing "friends", "status", "respect" or do I continue playing the game and denying a part of myself (again much more than just CD) with all the anxiety, depression, boredom? The answer might seem obvious and overthought but when you've been brought up as a people pleaser and fear rejection so strongly it's the hardest decision.
Sam
I am guilty of having that feeling when I was younger. I never felt that it was guilt so to speak but like a sever urge to get out of these clothes as fast as I could. A lot faster than it took to get into them. Lol. But I also had sever migraines during and after sex (with or without my then girlfriend). Debilitating headaches. Plus when younger I always had this feeling nagging me, wondering why I loved to crossdress but did not like guys? A lot of stuff going on in my head but finally it resolved it self when I accepted who I was and what I liked to do.
There's no reason for feeling guilty about any form of self sex. Yet, most of us here have felt it when dressed!:doh:
It took me years to buy into the advice I was given by many when I first arrived at CD.com.
"You're not hurting anyone and if you're not doing anything unsafe it's not wrong!":thumbsup:
Thank you all for the advice! I feel much better knowing these feelings are more common than I thought. Also, as di said, please keep the responsed vanilla and focused on the feelings and not the situation.
As far as cheating, i have nor would ever cheat. My experiences with others was while I was single. But I am very open with my desires and offer many reassurances that I have no desire to cheat. In fact, the idea is a huge turnoff. The excitement lies in sharing the experience and both of us having fun and exploring this new time together.
I believe these feelings stem from societal "programming ". These feelings don't last long abd i don't have the urge to distance myself from these thoughts or actions, i just don't like what i just did and wonder why I liked it in the first place. But my rational mind asserts itself abd i know that this is who i am and that i really enjoyed my experience and want to keep doing it.
I felt alone in this as I see alot of others confident and secure when living their lifestyle. Embracing this aspect of myself is still new and i know that with time, i can feel as confident and secure as I believe others are.
Again, thank you all for your kind words and support!
Thanks for explaining it was odd ( to me )you mentioned about the men now.
But I now understand and was asking for clarification.
As Doc said you should not feel guilt over something natural .
Hope you accept yourself?? Especially since your wife does , many do not have that .
Hope you see you are not alone in this.
It takes a strong person to pursue self-acceptance in the face of antagonism on the part of an SO, a wider family member, or wider society in general. Bigotry abounds, and as long as the things we do are not harmful to others, I cannot see any reason for guilt. The problem is theirs, not yours.
Society is designed to keep us all in check. Follow the rules of the puritan morals.
What the heck, who ever said on their death bed, "Boy am I glad I followed all their rules".
If you are not hurting anybody, do what you want. in reason.
The body is saturated with a rush of hormones during arousal and orgasm, after which there is a dramatic drop in hormone levels. This drop can carry with it a negative emotional response.
I suspect that to be a fairly common reaction for anyone raised to believe that a behavior is shameful. Obviously, a 30 minute period of guilt or revulsion is unpleasant, but as you say, it dissipates.
Perhaps there is an upside to the feeling. If you have yet to fully accept yourself as a transgender person, a bisexual or gay, then perhaps you need to use the hesitation to good effect by very seriously exploring your identity. I would suggest having this conversation, or really a series of conversations with a competent therapist. Their job is not to tell you what is right or wrong, but rather to help you learn to understand yourself and become able to accept the person you are.
Danielle, When I was younger I would get extreme guilt after if it was related to crossdressing. Now, not so much.
I used to feel guilt. Thankyou christian schooling. Has taken me decades of deprogramming to be comfortable with my gender and sexuality.
I did not feel guilty the first time. Actually, I felt like I was being my REAL self. I still do not feel guilty, obviously with a loving companion...
When I was younger I always ended with a release. I dont remember feeling guilty but sometimes I felt shame because I knew what I was doing was different and in the caveman days pre internet I didn?t know a single soul who cross dressed like me. Now that Im older I dress for the enjoyment of it and rarely end with a release so no guilt or shame since Im part of a whole community.
I could basically copy Stephanie47?s story and claim it as my own experience. A big ditto. But for me, the best therapy has been research and in many ways, this forum. The research has convinced my that there are more than just a few other cross dressers out there and this forum has shown me that we are decent thinking people with normal lives. We are not all gay porn stars or Aqualung sitting on the park bench. So, while I still keep my dressing and what I do private, I have pretty much put the guilt away and figured out that I simply enjoy something that others may not enjoy.
It is popular here to blame guilt feelings on an overly puritanical or religious society (for those raised in strict religious families) that imposes a false morality on us, such as men who "shouldn’t" wear dresses, or who "shouldn’t" be attracted to other men. And so an equally popular advice here is that all guilt is misplaced because of course we are entitled to whatever our personal sexuality demands.
But I think that most adults in our day and age do understand that 50-year-old taboos regarding sex were false. I should think that most people do accept that homosexuals and lesbians are entitled to love who they love, that gender variant people are entitled to be who they are, and that there are lots of different things that arouse people. Long gone are the days when most people believed that vanilla sex between a man and a woman was the only healthy and acceptable way to have sex. There is a rich array of all sorts of sex in the media readily available to anyone who seeks it, and there are all sorts of stores that sell all manner of kinky devices to suit anyone’s tastes.
If there are objections to being gay or wanting to wear women’s clothes within a marriage, it is not that the wife believes it is wrong for the neighbor to want to do these things, but rather, the wife simply wants to be married to a man whose sexual preferences are compatible with hers. She is into her husband, and she wants her husband to be into her and not aroused by other things, unless of course their kinks are compatible. :)
I don’t believe that guilt is a reaction to a false morality imposed on us by an intolerant society. Guilt is rather a feeling of remorse about how our behaviors affect ourselves and those we love, especially if we believe that our behaviors have caused some harm.
You say that your wife is accepting, but you both need rigorous self-honesty to examine the deeper dynamics between you. We don’t want personal answers here, but you need to think deeply about your sex life with your wife. Is it truly equally satisfying? Are the two of you completely honest with each other about your needs? Are both your sexual needs met?
I suspect the cause of your guilt is that some things in your marriage have been swept under the carpet because facing them is too hard, either for you, your wife, or both of you. It is sometimes easier to settle into a comfortable, unexamined life, where true intimacy (that comes from real honesty) is lacking, than face painful truths together, namely that you and your wife might not meet each other’s sexual needs.
But of course I don’t know you or your wife, and so what I say may not apply at all.
Although my wife treats my crossdressing as DADT, she allows me to wear a nightgown, panties and stockings during our lovemaking. While we are in the act I feel the most intense possible pleasure. But as soon as we are finished I have an overwhelming urge to get out of my feminine attire as quickly as possible. The feeling is not so much of guilt, but extreme embarrasment.
Reine pretty much nails it.
I've heard this response is called "post-nut clarity."
This sums it up for my case. I am guarded about being transparent to "society" as a whole, but it's definitely the norms absorbed by those closest to us that are our biggest barrier. I don't feel a lot of guilt about my taste, but I feel sorry for my wife for being stuck with someone with my taste. It's very hard not to feel guilty for disappointing someone you love.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
As far as the question from the original post... That hasn't really been an issue for me. Dressing is not a sexually motivated activity for me. In the early years, dressing was 'inspiring' but that's been long gone. The only thing that gives me any inspiration is a fantasy that my wife could actually appreciate and affirm my tastes.
I think that feeling is quite normal also in other scenarios just before ejaculating. Usually just after that there is a feeling of release and you want to finish what you are doing.
My understanding is that you will overcome with time after you continue enjoying and having more sex as you want.
I’m 75 and diabetic. If I had sex, I wouldn’t feel guilty, I’d hire a brass band! :)
It?s been a long time since I posted, but wanted to comment on this thread.Quote:
Originally Posted by Samantha51
I believe there?s an opportunity and a lesson learned for all of us with children. I was also raised in a conservative home?and I think most homes in the 70?s/80?s, religious or not had some strong opinions on this subject matter. Any of us that lived during that time, understood that crossdressing wasn?t an acceptable social norm.
My parents were conservative?but thank goodness they were awesome parents, who were not judgemental of others and taught me and my siblings to be the same. When our neighbors son and close friends of our family came out of the closet, my parents sat us down and told us what they expected of us. They didn?t understand his decision or his chosen lifestyle, but we were expected to treat him (and his friend) the way we wanted to be treated.
I also knew my parents were in love and had healthy sexual relations. The subject wasn?t taboo and sex was never strange for me, but my father still taught me and my siblings that we should avoid masturbation, pornography, and remain chaste. I can?t tell you how grateful I am for that. My dad told me of men (most of the time) who developed habits they could not break and I learned (like anything else that we could become slaves to it).
I didn?t start dressing until after I was married. But I knew of my fantasies?I didn?t execute those fantasies, but marriage opened them up. I was upfront with my wife before marriage and she knew as much as I did. We went into it together.
After making love?this negative cycle would do its thing. I was raised in a healthy home?but it didn?t matter?the guilt was real?the lack of feminine desire after the release of endorphins was real?drives my wife crazy. I actually think it?s not a terrible thing as it keeps me in check.
However, I think we need to talk to our children, teach them?help them be ok and accepting of who they are?and if they do this, they will have a more fulfilling life and love themselves the way we hope our children do themselves. Teach your children?speak to them. Speak to your spouse?listen to her?share your fears and vulnerabilities w/out an agenda.
I think self acceptance and self-love are the key here. Prayers for all of those of you that are trying to navigate these waters?I believe it?s possible to find a good place to be.
It was this thread that convinced me to join the forum today. I never realized how many suffer the same guilt, shame, self-loathing and doubt. Religion did a real number on me, even though I've been an atheist for over 20 years. My fianc? really struggles to understand what I go through as she has never been around religion as a child or an adult. She even gives me occasional side-eye and I know she's thinking I'm just making some of this stuff up or embellishing.
My therapist would call that self-judgment. Assuming you're not in a committed relationship and cheating on your partner, what you do with another consenting adult is your own business, and no one has any right to tell you it's wrong.
If you can swing a therapist, it would be really good to explore your feelings and free yourself. Good luck!
While I haven't experienced religion first hand like that, I have had a few friends who struggle with what I call "faith vs reality". Your struggle is very real my friend, especially to you. I have lost any faith a long time ago through watching the intolerance and bigotry executed in the name of religion. The division and subsequent hard lines only leads to hatred in others because of what we hate in ourselves.
Something that has helped me is to not understand the struggle someone is going through, but to emphasize that someone is struggling and not to try and fix their problems, simply be there to guide them when they ask. This is a very simple concept that is one of the more difficult things that anyone can do. Even harder is trying to explain this to someone who cares about you and wants to help or someone who doesn't have a frame of reference to relate.
Unfortunately, the struggle doesn't end, it only gets easier with time and positive reinforcement. Self acceptance is a wonderful thing, but it does not eliminate the memories of negative feelings and experiences that can haunt us in the dead of night when we are the most vulnerable. We can only take heart and feel reassured that dawn is on the horizon, tomorrow is a new day and we always have the chance to reinvent ourselves in an effort to chase the demons away.
I know it was a long way to go to say that you are not alone and many here understand, but I feel like I needed to hear it too :-)
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I have been in therapy for about 10 years off and on. I did discuss it with her, but reassurances from one person feels kind of hollow. I really wanted some thoughts from those who are "in the trenches" and needed the feeling of community to help reinforce the tools in my tool belt. This forum has been the perfect place to let my hair down and discuss things with outsiders. I love being in therapy, it has been the most successful thing i have done in my life and i usually encourage others to at least speak with a counselor, if only to gain a supportive perspective from a third party that is only invested in our well being as we are, not as others perceive us (from in front of the mask we place between us and the rest of the world) as with our friends and family.
I don't understand feeling guilty about it. You said you were single. For anyone who is married and steps outside the marriage, you ought to feel guilty. The more guilt the better.
Regardless of who you're having sex with, these things don't just happen. It's a deliberate act that requires some forethought. I don't understand how one could make a conscious decision to do something and then feel guilty about it, at least not more than once.
I was steadfastly monogamous throughout a very long marriage, and just as steadfastly straight. When the marriage ended though, I "experimented". It was something I wanted to do and thought I should do before getting on with my life. Took me a while to work through the "baggage" of a conservative upbringing and a while for the right opportunity to present, but when everything came together, it redefined sex for me. Nuff said. The biggest takeaway was the the next morning I was exactly the same person I had been the night before. Same thing for the next time, and every time after that. Seems obvious, and I'm probably not articulating my point very well. I guess it just seemed to me that if I had been straight on Friday night, but was gay on Saturday morning... seems like such a monumental change would have made some difference. It didn't, and that's a point I remember when dealing with anybody who I think might be gay. Guess I had to learn by doing. Fact is, if my friends, family, and acquaintances had known what I was up to, they would have looked at me differently. This is not the first time I've revealed that about me on this forum, and I know that some people on here think differently about me after learning that. Less of me, TBH.
The other thing for me is, it reinforced that I'm a relationship-driven person (I guess technically a straight-relationship-driven person). While I much prefer sex with men, I CANNOT STAND to even consider anything that resembles a relationship with one. A small sample size, for sure, but enough that I know that there is no possibility for a meaningful relationship. Given the choice between the best sex ever and a good long-term relationship with a woman, I'd choose the relationship every time. Much as I'd like to pretend that's not a problem, it is. I'm still a work in progress.
Rhonda,
It is an identity crisis, I am bi polar and go through personality and thought changes on a daily, sometimes hourly basis. I can be calm and introspective for hours, then get triggered and be wildly impulsive for the rest of the day or week. With each change, i feel guilt concerning my thoughts and actions, feeling alone in my struggle with who i want to be vs who I believe I am. The guilt I feel in this aspect is only a small part of a larger struggle and I am slowly eating the apple pie one bite at a time.
The trauma I experienced as a child and young adult leads me to seek high risk activities which make me feel alive and the world is full of color and meaning. the simple and mundane day to day activities are blur of gray with feelings of boredom and apathy.
I have been to war, where special ops was my bread and butter, flying so low you can count sheep and receive small arms fire. I have, and do, work with dangerous equipment and situations where a mistake can end my life in a flash.
But what I want is to live a simple and uneventful life. but i live with the curse of interesting times because of my high risk needs. I live in a prison of my own construction, I simply wish to feel like I am not alone.
I hope this helps you understand, although I is difficult to express because words tend to pale in comparison to the thoughts and feelings. :-)
I remember the convenience store owner asking me "how many pairs of pantyhose does your mother need". As soon as I would finish I couldn't get the pantyhose off and in the garbage fast enough and telling myself this was the last time. The guilt finally ended about six months after I told my wife and she noticed the cycle of me apologizing afterwards and told me that I wasn't hurting anyone and to enjoy it when I get the opportunity.
Believe it or not my wife will almost keep track of my activities to say. I used to go every Friday for a drive and before leaving she would ask to see what I was wearing and when she seen the mini skirt with the stocking tops showing and the see threw top she knew I was going to take the most risk and maybe more careless because see believed I was to aroused.
Now being older it doesn't always end with a finish and I'm not going to lie but if I do go to bed wearing stockings and a silk nighty and some sexual activity would happen I do remove my fem cloths afterwards most of the time. For me something has always happened afterwards that would have me ask the question what I thinking before but I'm much more excepting that it will not be my last time and I'll be back. I tried to keep it as clean as I could and very surprised this post is still up but I believe it's worth venturing into a little, after all it is a big part of it.
I didn't know that (probably missed the previous posts where you covered it). After that... I know differently of you. But I don't think any differently of you. You are still the smart, funny and super honest person I used to know. Keep being you.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
AmenQuote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
A big part of why I'm allowing myself to explore crossdressing is to break through my fear of upsetting others which has been the most constricting aspect of my life. FWIW I respect your experimenting.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
As much as I think it's right to tread carefully when outing ourselves, I also think there's a strong case for being authentic. It's different for everyone but I don't want to end up on my deathbed regretting so so much (more than CD).
Well, thanks.:oQuote:
Originally Posted by DianeT
The post where I covered that was probably before you came here. Beyond that, it rarely matters. When the "gay" topic comes up on here it is a hot button topic. Since it's often the first question/fear of many SOs I think it should probably get a full airing. But, when I've seen it come up, I don't think it's dealt with honestly. The discussion drifts into fantasies over here and fears over there. The "only when I'm dressed" thing comes out, and the "it's not gay if I feel like a woman" thing. It sets off heated defenses and gets dissected and sliced into such tranparently thin slices that the very definition of gay is completely lost. It is the most exhausting and frustrating thing discussed on this forum, and to some large extent, it doesn't matter, or shouldn't.
I wasn't gay when I was married. That statement alone sets people off. "You can't change", ya' know. That urge is impossible to resist. That's the narrative. I can't get into the whole thing without writing one of my "gazettes", as Diane has termed my boring and long tirades:), so I'll resist that. Not in the mood anyway. Besides, as you can probably tell, I'm a little touchy about it. Suffice to say that things I once found off-putting and so foreign to me that I just couldn't go there, well... I went there. When I got on this elevator early in life when I was making decisions that didn't seem like decisions, and I'd pushed a button to get off on a different floor... who knows. It was a very different time. Life turned out pretty awesome, for the most part. If I'd gotten off on that different floor, I'd probably be saying the same.
I couldn't agree more.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
And for the gazette, anytime (dedicated thread?).
Just as long as the woman knows that her husband does have better sex with men. I would hate to be in a long-term relationship with a guy who didn't have the best sex ever with me, but who instead stayed with me purely for emotional reasons ... unless sex wasn't a priority for me either.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rhonda Jean
On the other hand, if that were the case I'd probably feel it. I would feel that something was missing. And that can be a very sad thing, especially if there is no one I would prefer to have sex over my SO. Unreciprocated feelings can be heart-breaking.