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Thread: Dadt

  1. #1
    Just being true to myself Jolene Robertson's Avatar
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    Dadt

    OK I keep hearing about "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" in a lot of the relationships. What are some of the boundaries and terms of this, how does it work and is it any different than being in the closet?
    I'm sure the conditions are as diverse as we are.
    I am fortunate that my wife is accepting but I also understand many are not and I understand that too.
    Any and all feedback is welcome.

  2. #2
    Aspiring Member MonicaPVD's Avatar
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    There's a rainbow of fruit flavors when it comes to DADT. In my case, my partner discovered some time ago that I liked to dress. She reacted very bad and made it clear that it was unacceptable. The whole, I married a man and I expect you to be one, etc etc.

    Since then, I have never dressed at home or keep any of my things at home. A few years ago, we were going to attend a Halloween party and I floated the trial idea of dressing as a female cosplay character. Her reaction was immediate, negative, and profound. We have never had a conversation about the topic.

    I suspect that she is aware that this is a big part of who I am, and is mortified by what it may lead to. This situation has led me to justify living an extreme double life where I am constantly being dishonest.

  3. #3
    Paula Paula_56's Avatar
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    You and me both

  4. #4
    Gold Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    I am in a DADT marriage and I came out to my wife a little over 8 years ago. In the beginning she was very accepting, gave me 19 pairs of hand me down panties which she laid out on our bed for me. She recommended using her shapewear after an abdominal hernia and bought me some things, mostly sleep wear and the such. We used to wear matching panties and fun in the bedroom really kicked up.
    She also got me started on nail polish, painting my toes anytime I wanted plus she got me a gift card for my first pedi
    In less then a year her interest changed and she just did not want to play anymore. I did not ever push boundaries and was happy with where I was and how we enjoyed it.
    Finally she was just done with it, I asked what happened and she said she thought it was just a phase I was going through. I told her no it was not and that it was in me to stay.
    We had discussed how I started with this and suppressed it for years back at the beginning. She told me to not wear any of her things, which I never did without her permission and that was pretty much it.
    She knows I wear panties 24/7 and that I still get pedicures with color, I am going today.
    It has evolved into the DADT situation but I still feel it is better then being in the closet by myself and without her knowledge of this.
    If she never knew about this I most likely would have tried to suppress it again and there would be no Crissy time
    Crissy

  5. #5
    Administrator Di's Avatar
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    Great thread Jolene.
    I always wonder if some DADT is just hiding it from them or is there an agreement they know but give a heads up coming home ect because they do not want to see.

    I suspect that she is aware that this is a big part of who I am, and is mortified by what it may lead to. This situation has led me to justify living an extreme double life where I am constantly being dishonest.
    This makes me so heart broken . I know I go on and on about not hiding and telling your partner .but this is most important before marriage. I wish wives that find out after can see it is a part of you and makes you no less of a man but a complete person.I hope this point will be made when CDs are explaining the whys and PLEASE never say you will stop /as we know that is impossible.

    Sorry to jump in but Monicas sentence broke my heart.

    I look forward to others answers so I understand better the DADT and what everyone means by that in their life.
    Last edited by Di; 02-11-2022 at 08:11 AM.
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  6. #6
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    I came out to my ex before we were even engaged. Admittedly, at the time I couldn’t imagine doing anything beyond underdressing and told her that. She was clear at that time that she never wanted to see me completely dressed as a woman, because, to use her words, it would change how she saw me.

    Todays conversation struck a chord, especially Di’s comment, because I realize that while yes, I did evolved (or perhaps finally allowed myself do what I had repressed for so long) I was still ME. What changed for my wife was the illusion she had created for herself, an illusion that met her needs. It seems that she loved the illusion and not me.

  7. #7
    Aspiring Member MonicaPVD's Avatar
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    Di, it is sad and frustrating, and I realize that I am hurting her and myself by being dishonest. We have been together a long time and, by every measure besides this aspect of my life, everything works very well. Life is about making compromises. I accepted this a long time ago, like I accepted the fact that one day this will all surface in the ugliest way, and the relationship will end. Until that day comes, we live to fight (in heels) another day.

    [SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]

    Quote Originally Posted by kimdl93 View Post
    What changed for my wife was the illusion she had created for herself, an illusion that met her needs. It seems that she loved the illusion and not me.
    This is normal. We are attracted to others for a variety of reasons, often shamelessly superficial reasons. If you fell in love with a person who was a remarkable athlete, slender and muscular, and some time later they gained 150 lbs, they would argue that they are still the same person. And they would be correct. But they are a version of that same person that does not compute with what attracted you to them initially. This is very superficial and we are loath to admit that we can be this vain. Yet, we often are.

  8. #8
    Senior Member Kris Burton's Avatar
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    First, Monica and Paula - my heart goes out to you both. It must be extraordinarily difficult to live that way. The stress alone would cause me to break down in just a short time, and in fact it did. The length of time I actively dressed was just a few weeks before fessing up, so imagining maintaining that level of secrecy over a sustained period is beyond difficult. I held off my own CDing for many years for this very reason. Even so, you love for your SO must be great, and you both must be very committed to maintaining your relationship to continue on that way.

    I was lucky, my wife is accepting, even participatory up to a point. , However, there are limits, and that includes my desire to step out into the community, which at present is on the short but emphatic "don't go there" list. MY hope is that I will be able to maintain that level of patience, but it's getting harder. It may become a segment of our relationship that becomes DADT, but these comments will redouble my resolve to try to maintain the balance.

  9. #9
    Senior Member GretchenM's Avatar
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    I came out to my wife in August 2011. She didn't say much, but just listened. But her body language said it all - she leaned further and further away from me as if saying, "Who are you and what have you done with my husband?" I soon started therapy and that helped a lot, but any involvement on her part in actual dressing was blocked with a kryptonite wall even Superman could not break through.

    As time has passed she has loosened up a bit. We have talked at times and she understands it is a part of me that began when I was very young and I tried to destroy and eliminate for most of my life, but eventually the female-like portions won the war. There were compromises and the like, but generally I wear flats around the house and women's T's and sweatshirts at home and away, but going any further is a no-no, at least in her presence. It works for me and for her.

    So it has gone from a rigid DADT to a somewhat looser DADT. We have talked a great deal about the nature of gender and she has a little bit of understanding of the various theories and the findings that help explain this behavior to some extent, but without a definite answer. We are both trained in the sciences and so we can talk at a fairly deep level, but understanding a behavior and actually being involved in some way in that behavior is emotionally charged and beyond the boundaries of causation. It is personal and I understand that as does she. So it is a fairly agreeable arrangement that is just one of those personal things we all have that just needs to be accepted to a level that is workable even though perhaps far from ideal. Next month is our 53rd anniversary and we have made it through far more difficult things than this. With regard to my gender variance, we found it is just a matter of establishing comfortable boundaries and recognizing we are a couple, but we are also individuals with our own quirks some of which may not be completely desirable. It works.

  10. #10
    Senior Member Sandi Beech's Avatar
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    It took me a while to understand that there are many flavors of DADT. Mine leans towards DADT and don?t even think about doing it. I tried the honesty path, in fact more times than I should have. Most would have given up long before me. I really only wanted to shave and wear pantyhose mostly. When the therapist gave her a homework assignment in 2017 to look up crossdressing on the Internet, she likely landed on this web site. She fired the therapist because she did not fix me and she has not wanted to talk about it since. Of course I went to the therapist one last time as Sandi by myself. When I asked her what she thought, she said ? I see a women ?. After that I felt cured.

    It is kind of unfortunate that by going underground with it, I grew into going out on a level I would never have done if she had not rejected doing it at home. I have kept the peace since then by going down the secretive path similar to Monica. It is not what I wanted, but how I cope as well.

    The one thing that this site helped me realize is that she just can not help the way she is, and I am not mad at her about it any more.

    Sandi

  11. #11
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    My situation is similar to others here.

    For years, my wife has known I've had a feminine side. We've joked and teased about how I'm comfortable wearing women's clothes, but to her knowledge it was just that a joke. Last year I opened up to her (after 18 years together) about some of my needs. I bought myself a slip nightgown for Christmas and that opened the discussion when she saw it. She point blank told me she's not attracted to women and didn't marry one. I told her I understood her position and explained that this isn't a new thing and has been deeply buried with occasional times over the past decades where I would explore myself. The conversation with her wasn't as bad as it sounds. She is very open minded and supports LGBTQ in all its forms, just not when it involves me. She questioned my sexuality (crossdressers must be gay) and told me she would support me if that's what I needed, but not as my wife.

    After a couple of days where we both contemplated what had happened, she basically said she's going to pretend that the discussion never happened. She's tolerating me sleeping in my gowns, but that's all she's going to allow. So at the moment, that's as far as the discussion will go.

    I love reading how over time some spouses get more comfortable with it and I have a brooding hope that it will be this way with my wife. However, I know i can't push her on the subject and have to respect her boundaries.

  12. #12
    Banned Read only Kay Adams GG's Avatar
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    I haven't gone DADT because of my Love and wanting My SO to be Fulfilled and Happy.

    I originally joined the Forum because I had some serious questions to ask about some of my feelings...and didn't want to air them out in the open.

    Basically, it's the Fluctuations that I feel. Some of the issues about my Image of: who I married has come into play at some of the times during this adjustment period. We discussed the fact that "I did Marry a Man". She offered to just refrain; however I knew that this would lead to white-lies/division and Discontentment from my SO. The reason that I came to the Conclusion that white lies would occur is because that, after realizing that "It wasn't JUST a Phase" and ran deeper than this. This feeling has been with her for a Very long time, even though she didn't understand what it meant at the time.

    Now these comments/responses have reminded me of the Phases of Acceptance that I myself went through and worked through...by Myself! I still revisit them Momentarily; however, I don't entertain them for long. I see my SO as an ever-Growing Blossom, branching out and Discovering her own and I just can't be selfish and squelch it. It's a part of my SO, yes it has been a Compromise/Adjustment on How I view my SO today. My view of her as a Male has changed; it can't but help it to change...somehow! When I look at my SO there IS a little less Male in Him. It's a trade-off for me; Selfish=Division or Complete Rejection=either Divorce or One Unhappy in the Closet CD. Let me qualify this by saying that this is just My Experience and opinion on this, it's not chiseled in stone as a Law.

    Joint Counseling is still an option. Maybe I can come to a better understanding of the Dynamics of how our Relationship HAS changed, and maybe offer another dimension to it. It's difficult to be fully open here, however maybe some of you can glean some valuable information/insight from it.

    I'm NOT wanting a "Knee-Jerk" response of: "Well, then I'll just NOT do it anymore!" or "Our marriage is More Important than my CD'ing". It's NOT at that point nor do I feel that it will Ever get to this point. It's a Work-in-Progress. As I had stated in another Thread of mine...It's a Marathon and Not a Race; I'm in this for the Long Haul.

    I hope that this didn't leave some of you DADT's feeling, "Well, maybe I'll never have TOTAL acceptance/support from my SO". It may be that it's going to be something that you Both work through as long as the lines of Communication remain Open! It may be in Stages, with some questions arising along the way; you don't know there's a question to ask until a situation presents itself.

    There's No Magic Wand to wave or pill to take to help this Process. It's Real, and it takes Real work to make it Possible to have some Degree of Acceptance. There are Limitations/Boundaries in ANY relationship.

    Be Happy, and a Coined Phrase...To thine own self be true. Good Luck and Condolences to those of you who don't have an opportunity to share with an accepting SO.

    Comments and questions are welcomed,

    Ta Ta
    Last edited by Kay Adams GG; 02-11-2022 at 09:47 AM. Reason: Avoiding Miscommunication

  13. #13
    Aspiring Member SaraLin's Avatar
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    Another DADT flavor:

    I live in what I call a "partial DADT" but I'm not sure if that's exactly right.

    Before my wife and I got too serious (when we were still dating), I told her ALL about me and my history. I told her that I was never going to give up my panties - or sleeping in nighties. The rest was negotiable... IF she wanted to stick around at all, that is.

    Well, she did stick around, but has never budged on what is OK to wear - at least around her. She knows that I have more. I don't hide my (few) outfits from her. They're hanging right there in the closet, but she definitely does NOT want to see me in any of them. And don't even THINK about makeup, wig, etc.

    Since the arrival of COVID, and combined with her declining health, neither of us go anywhere. I am pretty much "joined at the hip" to her these days. I love her and don't mind being there and helping, but I am slowly suffocating from lack of Sara time. Sure, the nighties and panties help, and I'm wearing them later and later into the day - but in her eyes, I'm still (male name) - just (male name) in a nightie, not Sara.
    Last edited by SaraLin; 02-11-2022 at 09:08 AM. Reason: clarity

  14. #14
    Reality Check Krisi's Avatar
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    I think "DADT" means that she knows you are a crossdresser and that you wear women's clothes (and other things like a wig and breast forms) but doesn't want to see or know anything about it. While this is faf from ideal, it is way better than hiding your dressing from a wife with the ever present chance of her catching you in the act.
    Krisi

  15. #15
    There's that smile! CarlaWestin's Avatar
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    My DADT situation evolved because of the dishonesty and deception that was hallmark to my crossdressing adventures. During therapy a long time ago it was mentioned that the purpose was to get to the heart of the matter.
    It was at that time that I started checking myself and began living as truthful and honest in life as I possibly could. And I really drilled in to it. It was part of a maturity adjustment about respect, life, money, health decisions, etc.
    I had correctly defined my crossdressing as an exciting activity and experience that pushed into unknown territory out of the normal comfort zone, satisfied a desire for a creative outlet and gave me a personal reward system.
    It was also a sexual enlightenment. There was a gratification that I could actually be an object of my desire without the pursuit, social interaction or infidelity. I would cringe when hearing acquaintances talk about their extra marital conquests.
    It was quite the secret world I was keeping concealed and even the creativity that went into the clandestine part was enjoyable.

    But, the dishonesty of it all was bothering me.

    As part of the attraction to my wife was her acceptance and curiosity of the odd and off-center, I felt that I could let her know that I liked to play dress up as a hobby along with the other
    *ehem* non-mainstream proclivities she already knew about. But, my approach wasn't one of my best decisions. Unlike in a previous relationship, my wearing a bra with boobs around the house just didn't go over well and she let me know
    that she didn't like it. So, it was back to deception by omission. Things were kept out of sight but not necessarily hidden. Then about 15 years ago I decided to buy her some flowers, take her out to dinner and tell her I was a MtF crossdresser.
    The only salvageable outcome from that was that the truth was finally disclosed. It was very nearly the end of our marriage. The challenge became respecting her complete non-acceptance but also respecting my desires to pursue a personal activity that
    had taken me a long time to accept. Also, the perspective had to be defined as that other thing that was more of a minor detail in a wonderful, loving and trusting relationship.

    So, DADT and IDWTSI became the line in the sand.

    And that's where it is now. I do keep the Carla closet locked so none of my buds can stumble upon my stuff. It's part of the cool man cave I built and when questioned, I mention it contains survival stuff which is kinda funny in itself.
    And Carla only comes out when wifey is asleep early in the morning or other times when she's away from house. The beauty is that I own it completely so there is no criticism. And I like that there's no discussion.
    We do have a pure and honest loving relationship with an absolute solid trust factor.
    I've waited so long for this time. Makeup is so frustrating. Shaking hands and I look so old. This was a mistake.
    My new maid's outfit is cute. Sure fits tight.
    And then I step into the bedroom and in the mirror, I see a beautiful woman looking back at me.
    Smile, Honey! You look fabulous!

  16. #16
    Gold Member bridget thronton's Avatar
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    Kay thanks for sharing - my spouse would say something similar I think. I could not lie and hide things from her so I told her years ago. Dressing at home was not an issue once I told my adult children and their partners - at my wife's insistence (to prevent someone else telling them first). My wife does not want her family to know - but I think they suspect so that is sort of DADT

  17. #17
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    "I am fortunate that my wife is accepting." Frankly, without perusing your other posts I have no idea what that means. Is it akin to "Don't Ask, Don't Tell?" A wife can be "accepting" in the sense she does not foam at the mouth and go crazy about, but does not want to "participate" in any shape or manner about it. My current status is the "Ostrich Effect." She is aware I like to wear women's clothing. She knows there is a stash of clothing in the nightstand which dates way back to almost the beginning....circa early 1980's. Does she know the contents of the almost two dozen Xerox boxes stacked up in the recreation/store room....hidden in plain sight. I sense she does not want to really know anything. Our last conversation was the mid 1980's. I read the phrase bantered around frequently, "lying by omission." If my wife really wanted to engage in a conversation I am more than willing. I do not even know if there is an "elephant in the room" anymore. Yes, in the beginning she said all those unkind and hurtful words, "if I had known _________!" You fill in the blanks. One thing I did realize was I did not need her affirmation for me to have self acceptance. I did my own "counseling" which some would probably be my "justification" for what I do. I sat down one day (or maybe it evolved) and used the scale of life as to what I have accomplished and how I treat those around me. That bad "thing" of wearing women's clothing was totally outweighed by those accomplishments. What I also came to accept was any constant badgering my wife for outward acceptance was nothing short of "mental spousal abuse." So, in the mid 1980's we entered the current phase of avoiding the issue. Does she know I sleep in a nightgown (we sleep apart for medical reasons)? Does she know I bang away in the morning (right now) wearing that nightgown and panty (sometimes bra like now)? I don't know. What would happen if she awoke early and stroked my back and felt the bra straps? I don't know, and, I really do not care. That may be a good thing because it may bring about some conversation. Silence is not golden.

    I think "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" sometimes is passive aggressive behavior; Keep hubby in hell or purgatory. "Go to your room and stay there. Don't come out until I tell you!" Is this any better or worse than a wife who tears apart the home looking for fem stuff and incites a verbal riot? "Tell me how you really feel."

  18. #18
    Aspiring Member Star01's Avatar
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    One thing most agree is that we should tell our wives up front. Actually, I did that way back in the early 70?s. At the time I told her I messed with some women s clothes in the attic as a kid. At that time I had no idea what it was about and thought it was a one time experiment shortly after puberty. We laughed it off and forgot about it. It came back in my late 40?s after leaving a high control religion and started to spread my wings. Pretty soon I had a stash of clothes and would dress every chance I had. She found some items of clothing and confronted me. It was so sudden that I didn?t have time to formulate a response. That is when she laid down the law and made it clear that she didn?t want to know about it or see me dressed. I had no idea that this thing would come back decades later. I used to always get a flutter in my stomach in certain situations and didn?t know what that was about until it hit me hard and I dove in head first.

    I like auto racing and always took car trips by myself to attend. I would bring my things with me and spend some girly time. The ongoing pandemic messed that up and we finally started getting out more and mingling including flying south for a week. That was the test I needed to see how my immunity was. A week that included flying to a red state where masks are an afterthought and I am fine. I needed that confidence boost as my wife has been twisting my arm saying I should go to some races this summer. It will be a combination shopping spree/dressing session for the first time in several years. I plan on scheduling some ?travel days? and will be secretly hoping for one or two rainouts.

  19. #19
    Aspiring Member Kelli_cd's Avatar
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    I messed up a few years ago, and left out one of my bra and panty sets, which she found. She came down and asked, What is this?! I rather sheepishly replied, Those are mine.
    Wife: Are you a crossdresser?
    Me, again sheepishly, embarrassed: Yeah, sort of. (at the time I was only interested in underdressing - today my desire is to fully dress and make-up, etc. That won't happen.)
    Wife: Well, that's better than having an affair. (I've never been able to describe the sound I heard in her voce that evening. I guess it was more of a resigned "whatever" than anything else.)

    The only other time anything came up was the second time I messed up. I forgot about the polish on my toenails (a lovely lilac from OPI), and I took off my socks in front of her. Again, she asked, Are you a crossdresser?
    I was much less sheepish, as I had come to finally accept this part of me at that point. My reply was more of a firm "Yes" that time.

    Nothing has been brought up by either one of us since then. So I underdress every day, panties always, most days a bra with enhancers. I wait for her to have a "work in the office day" so I can take care of my own personal laundry. I toss a pair of boy underwear into the dirty clothes every day, but haven't worn them in more than 2 years.

    I guess this qualifies for a closeted DADT marriage.

  20. #20
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    I agree with most of what has been mentioned. DADT is what you make of it. It's a land bordered by The Closet, and Participation, with little inlets and border disputes along the perimeter. In my case, wife knows, and I share info on a need to know basis, and she catches a glimpse of Meghan on occasion. But I don't share everything I think or do in that realm to avoid overload. I tend to think of my situation as partial DADT, being a little more open. I feel that strick DADT is slightly better than 100% closet, but still holds a danger of deception. You know the old sins of omission. It can be tough to navigate sometimes.

  21. #21
    Gold Member Crissy 107's Avatar
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    Very interesting thread, reading all the responses it is easy to see that there are as many different DADT situations as there are members, No two are alike
    Crissy

  22. #22
    Just being true to myself Jolene Robertson's Avatar
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    Wow, what interesting and sometimes heart breaking answers and comments. Thank you everyone for contributing.

  23. #23
    Member ziggie's Avatar
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    I just read through the entire thread and have to agree with Crissy and Jolene. There are many different stories and all are interesting. Thanks to those who contributed.
    So many new things to learn

  24. #24
    Senior Member JocelynJames's Avatar
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    I am so thankful every day I am not in a DADT. I don?t think I would deal too well with it. Bless all you ladies
    If you only knew the power of the pink fog! ~Joss

  25. #25
    Senior Member Heather76's Avatar
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    In my case, DADT actually means "I know you cross dress. I see your bras, nighties, panties, dresses, and breast forms on a regular basis. I know you're dressed fully in lingerie when you come to bed every night. I know you are underdressed every day. I can see the bulge on your chest from your forms and bras and I can see your bra strap impressions on your shirt. I accept all this; but, do we really need to talk about it?" Today, for example, I arched my back which is my way of asking my wife to scratch my back. About the time she started scratching my back I realized I had a 4 hook closure bralette on. Well, she scratched my back and crossed back and forth over the back strap 6 or 7 times with no hesitation and no mention of anything. But, if I were to ask her, "Honey, how about helping me pick out a nighty/dress/bra/panties/whatever" I'd get a firm NO!

    All that said, I feel very, very lucky that she is as accepting as she is at this stage.
    It's never too late to enjoy a happy childhood.
    Live each day as though it's your last 'cause one day you'll be right.
    I'm finding the more feminine side of me...and I ❤️ this adventure.

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