This is assuming you are in a relationship and you did not know about your SO’s gender issues and/or the degree of the issues until after the relationship began.
The preceding quotes are from another thread I start. After reading the replies to the thread, the assumption I made in the quote may not be as clear-cut as I had thought. Part of it may have been due to ignorance (lack of information) or part of it may be due to my ego…there is the possibility it is a combination of both.OP by Wickanne GG
That actually opens up something I never thought about before.……..I assumed that when a man is making love to a woman while he is enfemme he would feel very 'male'. So I'll flip my question for you. Do you think you would feel femme or masculine in that situation? If you felt femme, would you see it as a lesbian or a heterosexual encounter?
OP by Susan Anne
I feel/act/talk/percieve like a woman when en femme. This would include typical female activities such as shopping, chatting, home decor and etc. but could also include sports or other so-called "man" stuff. However these all would be experienced by me from a female outlook and point of view. I am not attracted to men sexually and desire only women. Therefore in making love to a woman en femme I see it for myself as a lesbian experience since en femme I identify as lesbian. The lovemaking would take on a female to female flavor.
It struck me that one doesn’t often hear/see what a GG would think of such an encounter. Is her reason for rejecting/accepting a CD based on how she does/would perceive the relationship? I have tried to encourage someone else to start a thread on this but perhaps because of the subject matter a female best broaches it.
This is the type of question I like because it is open to the majority…it is about MM, MF, and FF relationships and how one perceives it. Perception [seems to be my favorite word lately] rarely has a right or wrong answer but never fails to enlighten and bring about an understanding when participants approach it with an open mind.
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I have never found myself attract to other GGs. When asked about my sexual preferences I, usually, responded with some flippant quip such as, I’d rather suck the spoon than lick out the bowl. It got my point across. Then one day I found myself extremely attracted to a male enfemme. Oh, yeah…that got me thinking about my sexuality. I struggled with it because my eyes where telling me one thing (hmmm, sexy lady) and my mind was telling me something else (may look like a female, but he is a male). Now, if I thought he looked like a female then why was I so attracted to him?
Some background information is necessary here. Although I am genetically female I am not what one would label a ‘typical’ genetic female. I have the aptitudes most strongly associated with males…strong mathematical skills, strong spatial perception, and strong mechanical aptitude. I can program and run CNC equipment and a whole lotta other things but I cannot frigging flip an egg over-easy without breaking the yoke. My current pursuits are degrees in Industrial/Process Engineering and Mechanical Engineering. I really have poor writing skills; I suck at spelling and sentence structure. As a youngster, I always watched and participated in sports, totally despised anything on my feet, pulled things apart and, successfully, put them part together…it wasn’t until I got older did I start having extra parts. I know how to knitting, cook, do needlepoint, and most other “typically” female pursuits and I do them quite well, but they don’t interest me. I am tall, have large hands, large feet and broad shoulders. I like getting my hands dirty and the smell of 10W30 (the scent of 10W50 is too heavy for me) I like stockings with seams up the back, silk, lingerie, and high heels, but I don’t like blouses with ruffles around the neck. Once, I was accused of being a MTF CD.
So why was I so strongly attracted to his femme persona. Some will argue, and rightfully so, that I have predominately male genetics and I was born into the wrong body. I have no interest, at all, in being a FTM CD but that could be because I wouldn’t want to be a “male” and live within the strict confines males generally have to live in. IE: Social stigmas attached to almost everything a male does. I believe I was born into the correct body. I am one of those who are truly blessed to have the best of both worlds, I can move fluidly between both. The only things I cannot do which are male involves a certain appendage that I do not have. I can pretty much do anything female. I have no desires to be with a GG, I just don’t. At first glance, I saw my attraction to his femme persona as ‘lesbian’ in nature. Yet, I believed I “allowed” myself to be so strongly attracted to her because I knew underneath she is male, if she had the male parts than she could play in my sand box. I knew the breasts would come and go. I am not a breast person…I am definitely a penis person. My sexuality came out of the struggle intact. But would all GGs be so lucky or would some continue to struggle? Would some give up because it’s just a lot easier not to deal with it?
I perceived making love with him as a heterosexual act. I perceived making love to him while he was in female clothing, stocking, high heels as a heterosexual act. Really, clothes are just a cover it doesn’t matter what they look like.
The tricky part of this, how would I have perceived making love with him if he had been in total femme mode? I would not have perceived it as a lesbian encounter. It would have been sex between me and a man in a ‘costume’ because, realistically, most women don’t wear make-up to bed, very few wear a bra while making love and most of use don’t worry about how our hair looks during the throes of passion. Did I fantasize about making love to him in full femme mode? Yes, but I was having a difficult time trying to figure out what and how to do it, how to be “male” about it. I had to think of it as me trying to seduce HIM out of HIS clothes. At no time did I see it as lesbian in nature.
Now, because of my other thread, I have to look at it from an angle I hadn’t thought of before. If he is a simple CD then he would see sex between us as heterosexual, I do not have an issue. If he is a transsexual presenting himself as a CD and seeing himself as a woman and perceiving a sexual encounter as lesbian, I have an issue with it and this is where my perceptions may take a beating. Most straight women, including myself, do not want to make love to another woman or anyone who “thinks” he is a woman because you will present and project yourself to us as a woman and we don’t want to make love to a woman.
[NOTE: This is my perception. This is based on knowing myself well. I have not, to my knowledge, been in a relationship where he felt he was a woman and perceived love making as a “lesbian” encounters. It never crossed my mind to ask.]
I am going to play the devils advocate here. This will not apply to some of you:
We will resent you for trying to come into our world in a male form “pretending” to be a woman.
You haven’t paid your dues into the Club of Women, the lottery failed to award you a vigina at birth. Sure you have lived with your struggle, shame, and desire to be a woman but you will never know or come even close to knowing what it is to be a woman, no more than I, with my background, could ever possible know what it is to be a male. How can you claim to embrace something you are not and never will be? We take exception to you trying to cross the line into our world. We dislike you for getting to call yourself a woman without having known the hardships (physically, biologically, and emotionally). We hate that you got the ‘easy’ pass to being a woman. We are a territorial bunch, but then if you were a woman you’d know that ;-)
For me, I will respect whatever ‘label’ you want to use, just be honest and open about how you perceive yourself. Allow me to make my decisions based on how I feel and not how you think I should feel or what you fear the outcome will be. To the average heterosexual female, making love to a man who perceives himself as a woman in a lesbian sexual act is like a betrayal and it is “icky” to us and don’t expect us to love you for it. It knocks our whole sense of what a heterosexual relationship is out of whack. That alone should tell you, you are still a male and thinking with your penis because you cannot see it that way. If it happens that you can understand it, yet still continue to push your needs to the forefront of the relationship (you haven’t learned one of the basic tenets of being a woman…sometimes your needs are put on hold for the good of the relationship…so take a number and sit down) then you are not respecting us as individuals so how can you expect the same in return?
Would I reject a SO based on the perceptions of others? No! I don’t give a flying…oops, careful there…what other people perceive my relationship with someone as.
Would I reject a SO who perceives himself as femme and the relationship as heterosexual? No.
Would I reject a SO based on his perception of himself as a woman and perceiving the relationship as ‘lesbian’? Yes, because it is not who I am. Like any other trait I may find undesirable in a mate, which would influence me to reject him. I haven’t evolved to a point where I can wrap my head around it and I don’t believe I will.
Some may argue that unless he told me he thought this way I wouldn’t know. There’s a lot more for a man to be in a ‘lesbian’ relationship than putting on a dress and make-up. I would know.
After reading posts on here, I have also come to understand the frustrations of some of the GGs. I never really understood why a GG got so upset about her man wanting to wear clothes of the opposite sex. For some, me included, it isn’t just about the CDing….
….it is also about the fear of where her SO is in the “spectrum” and where he is going to end up.OP by Satrana
And yes you are correct there is a huge spectrum of states inbetween simple crossdressing based solely on clothing to transgenderism and transexuality. Some people stay static on this continuum, but many will move along it over time. How far they travel is individualistic, no-one can tell, even the CD themselves. We spend a lifetime discovering what it all means, we never stop learning.
And the labels are very confusing especially more so when they are missing. A statement about transitioning from a TS who you assumed was a CD is going to give you all sorts of grief!
I know the “labels” and wording will vary slightly depending on your situation…eg. A FTM CD and F relationship.
Wickanne
Originally Posted by Zee
perception
The OP had a very good point, he will never be a woman, he'll never feel like a woman. He may feel more feminine, but clothes alone do not make a woman. He might be wearing femme stuff daily, but he still gets the better deal in the relationship all round (and it's not something I mind, I wouldn't change that). I'm the one who is up with the baby while he sleeps through it, I'm the one who the baby is given to if he cries, I'm the one who does my best with the housework while struggling with the baby and no sleep while SO goes for an afternoon nap. I'm the one who has the ultimate responsibility for the children, who has to put my career and plans on hold because we accidently made a new baby. The highlight of my life for the next few years will once again be a pat on the back because I got the toilet clean. I again have no financial independance. My body is knackered from 4 births and my C-section scar (6 months old) still hurts on occassions. Breast feeding wears me out. My job is to ensure the kids, the baby and HC are happy, fed and living in a reasonably clean and tidy home. That sucks, it's frustrating. I'm no less ambitious than any man - yet being a woman means I have to choose whether to dump the baby in nursery and look after my own needs, or do as mothering means and put my own needs last. This is something no man, knickers or not, can ever understand. So, while we're in the same house, the same family and the same relationship, we might be wearing matching undies but only one of us has a real grip on what it means to be a woman. The home life is only one example, real life as a woman, even outside of the home is something else - something wearing clothing and feeling feminine cannot replicate.
