Autogynephilia, anybody?

[Sammy777]

Blanchard merely identified the trait.

His expanded theory may be way off-base, but that does not negate the existence of the trait in many trans people, TS or CD or whatever.

Simply because Blanchard was way off-base in many of his theories does not mean that AGP does not exist and is not valid.

I'm not saying it does not exist or is not valid.
After all, all he did was just completely rip off the definition of a "Fetishist Crossdresser"
and just slightly twist it so it would conform to TS' that didn't fit into his original "All TS's are really just Gay Men" theory.

Hiding and Omitting ALL F2M TS was hard enough.

But hiding any TS that happen to like women was to hard for even him I guess!!
So he had to scurry like a rat running from a sinking ship to come up with something, anything that would help his original theory still hold water [ya right, lol] but still explained these strange freaks of nature that were interfering with his original freaks of nature.

Because, after all, why would a person who CD'es want such a term as AGP when they already had the same thing. Unless of course the newer term just sounded better.
Which makes about as much sense as his body of work. :D

PS:
If back pedaling was an Olympic Sport I'm sure you'd have a shot at the Gold.

Did I mention I have a black belt in Sarcasm ..... and the boots to match

[Kaitlyn Michele]

i wouldnt use the word because of the negativity around it...

I could say that all Transsexuals who never had a sexual feeling relating to their innate femaleness are simply not transsexual, but have a disorder called unfetishgynophelia...

of course i just made that up and so did Dr Blanchard....

for better or worse, the term just sets people off....

the fact that many transsexual women feel a sexual feeling when they truly feel their womanhood makes all the sense in the world...add testosterone to the mix and you get alot of unwanted erections...but then like pavlov's dog, you learn that it feels good, and more importantly it relieves your anxiety...

years ago, saying this outloud would get you immediately off the list if you were looking to get hormones and transition...so girls learned the script..

this myth did great damage to me...i have suffered for years and years thinking that i was cursed to stay a bitter man because i had these erections..i was told that i had fantasies...so just like with my maleness, i tried to work with that, and i got more and more anxious and depressed...

then i met 2 women that have transitioned for dinner, and i talked openly about this and they just laughed and laughed and said join the club..

so if the question is what do i think of autogynephilia...i try not to...

if you ask if i've been sexually aroused and what i think about it...i think it makes perfect sense, what sexual feeling was i supposed to have as a woman with a penis?? I never ever had a thought about using it to penetrate a lover..it just never occured to me.. of course, i was totally functioning down there and without that release of anxiety i would be dead...

i just wish i had somebody to talk to about this 10 and 20 years ago...

[Samantha Girl]

I doesn't feel to me like there's much of a distinction between CDing and Autogynephilia, at least to my mind anyway.

AND the word Autogynephilia is just icky! :p

[Sammy777]

I doesn't feel to me like there's much of a distinction between CDing and Autogynephilia, at least to my mind anyway. :p

You better be careful Sam, them there words might ruffle more then a few feathers in this here hen house.
Some might even want to take ya out behind the woodshed for a good lickin' -
And I don't mean that in a fun way neither.

If I were to respond, expand, or do anything regarding that statement it might be the last thing I do here for a bit .......... or ever

[How is Washington treating you so far? Probably less rain then we're getting in Jersey]

[ReineD]

But I also felt some mention of the context and the sources was needed. I am sorry if I offended or stepped on toes.

You didn't offend or step on my toes. I understand your point too, and although the OP did ask why the term is not often discussed, the main thrust of her question I thought was her intrigue about the concept and if it might be an explanation for some motives behind the CDing. The OP identified with the feelings, as have others here.

But then the focus of the thread shifted to a debate between those who want to answer the OPs question and others who (rightfully) feel the term is not a valid label for TSs who are not attracted to men. These are two completely separate discussions. Everyone agrees that Blanchard's views were limited but expressing outrage over his misconceptions belongs in a separate thread since the concept of autogynephilia in itself does exist. We frequently see it expressed on this board and not strictly by transvestic fetishists.

Just take a look at many of the responses in these recent threads:

http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ghlight=thrill
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ghlight=thrill

So he had to scurry like a rat running from a sinking ship to come up with something, anything that would help his original theory still hold water

I don't know if by "backpeddling" is you are referring to the following, but Blanchard did write about the validity of his theories 15 years after he originally coined the term. I quote from the last paragraph on his website: Origins of Autogynephilia

"All or none of the foregoing propositions may be true, false, or something in between. Their accuracy is an empirical question that can be resolved only by further research. In the meantime, it is important to distinguish between the truth or falseness of theories about autogynephilia, on the one hand, and the existence or nonexistence of autogynephilia, on the other. The latter is also an empirical question, but it appears, at this point, to be settled. The primary evidence that autogynephilia exists is the self-report of biological males who say “I am sexually excited by the idea of having breasts,” “I am sexually excited by the idea of having a vagina,” “I am sexually excited by the idea of being a woman.” There is no particular reason to believe that these individuals are merely distorting the familiar transvestitic narrative to make it more acceptable to others."

I take it Blanchard is saying his original research may or may not be true, and he suggests there should be further research. He also observes that many biologic men identify with experiencing sexual feelings when imagining themselves as women, which we've all seen expressed on this board time and time again.

the fact that many transsexual women feel a sexual feeling when they truly feel their womanhood makes all the sense in the world...add testosterone to the mix and you get alot of unwanted erections...but then like pavlov's dog, you learn that it feels good, and more importantly it relieves your anxiety...

this myth did great damage to me...i have suffered for years and years thinking that i was cursed to stay a bitter man because i had these erections..i was told that i had fantasies...so just like with my maleness, i tried to work with that, and i got more and more anxious and depressed...

so if the question is what do i think of autogynephilia...i try not to...

if you ask if i've been sexually aroused and what i think about it...i think it makes perfect sense, what sexual feeling was i supposed to have as a woman with a penis?? I never ever had a thought about using it to penetrate a lover..it just never occured to me.. of course, i was totally functioning down there and without that release of anxiety i would be dead...

i just wish i had somebody to talk to about this 10 and 20 years ago...

Thank you for your honesty in sharing this, Kaitlin. I've learned a lot from it and I'm sure others have too. I wonder how many CDs feel the same way.

[Sammy777]

Thanks,
I truly do appreciate the time and effort put forth in this and your other posts on the subject.

I don't know if by "backpeddling" is you are referring to the following, but Blanchard did write about the validity of his theories 15 years after he originally coined the term. I quote from the last paragraph on his website: Origins of Autogynephilia

Actually....... uuuuuu ....... No, it wasn't that or him that I was referring to.

[TGMarla]

If back pedaling was an Olympic Sport I'm sure you'd have a shot at the Gold.

Yeah, Reine. I think she was cracking on me. I guess while I understand the concept of autogynephilia, I just don't feel this terrible rage towards Blanchard over it. Har har.

[christinek]

I think another long word not used here is Transvestic Fetishism.

I have read the previous and most has been spoken so I digress.

[Pink Person]

Oh FFS (charming acronym) people are subjects, not objects. We express our sexuality subjectively. Are women who have breast implants or want them, and are sexually excited about having or wanting them, suffering from autogynephilia? Not likely, because we all view ourselves as sexual subjects not as sexual objects. It is only other people who objectify us.

What Blanchard and other people like him, including the ones who validate his supreme stupidity and offensiveness, will not allow is that someone who is born with a penis can be a female subject or feminine subject in any meaningful way and express their subjective femaleness or subjective femininity in a sexual manner that is satisfying to them. Blanchard’s opinions imply that every person with a penis is either a healthy authentic male or a sick male. He probably views people with vaginas in a similar or dimmer light. Blanchard’s opinions reduce some people to penis objects who objectify themselves as vagina objects. He denies the basic humanity of TG and TS people.

Do people who masturbate get excited because they imagine having sex with themselves? Perhaps Blanchard and a few others do. Everyone else imagines themselves as a sexual subject who is expressing their sexual subjectivity.

Is it difficult for TG and TS people to find compatible sexual partners and maintain relationships with them? Yes it is. The primary reason is that most people (who are not TG or TS) don’t respect the authenticity of TG and TS self-identification, and they don't respect the natural expression of personal TG and TS humanity and personal TG and TS subjectivity.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

auto
a combining word meaning self

gyno
a combining word meaning self

philia
a combining form used in the formation of compound words that have the general sense “unnatural attraction” (necrophilia),

why would anybody "like" being defined as having an unnatural attraction that is compared to necrophilia

what is wrong with being a fetish crossdresser or having any nondangerous fetish (unlike like dangerous fetishes that hurt others including corpses..heh)
, if you do enjoy dangerous fetishes, then you can fantasize in your mind about any type of sexual pleasure,

The term autogynephilia was created AS a perjorative term...it does not at all describe the reality that I and others have personally experienced..transsexuals care DEEPLY about the word because most of us view it as quackery and folks like Dr Blanchard are part of the group that is working to define us in the next DSM...it matters..how it is defined medically has all kinds of reprecussions for those of us that seek treatment or surgery..doctors can hurt us...go look up Dr John Money...

so i would respectfully ask that we simply not use that term..what term should we use?? who cares...just not a term coined by a self serving man using incredibly flawed research...

but it doesnt mean that there are alot alot alot of girls that either enjoyed sexual pleasure or a release of anxiety through their testosterone laden existence...

my educated GUESS is that for ts women that felt sexual things about themselves it is about coping with the confusing feelings regarding just knowing you are a girl but genetically being a boy....

[Jonianne]

.......Thank you for your honesty in sharing this, Kaitlin. I've learned a lot from it and I'm sure others have too. I wonder how many CDs feel the same way.

Reine, your grasp on things CD/TG is amazing!

As a cd'er I do also feel the same way Kaitlin expressed. I used to think that something was wrong with me for having those feelings, that being turned on either by cloths or by fantasizing myself as a female negatated or discredited the deeper desire of my identifying "with" or "along side" females.

As humans we are very beautifully complex, especially with our emotions and minds. Since childhood, I have only felt comfortable "letting in" strong female role models in my life to identify with. For me, that is the core reason I am a crossdresser. Yes, after puberty, the rest kicked in and I am happy with that, even though it certainly complicates what was already complicated at best. But, I have settled in and am very happy being an ever changing, complicated me.