I came out so I could finally become myself. And I adore it
I came out so I could finally become myself. And I adore it
I strut my stuff, I feel so proud,
I need to shout, to scream out loud,
I am Tricia I am she,
I am who I want to be
http://tricia-dale.blogspot.com/
I would love to "comeout".
But the place I work, the fed law not standing, it is only words that protect the Corp from a law suite.
It would be a living hell trying to keep this job, with some luck my pickup would last a week before it would be totaled in the parking lot.
Sure I could get another job... But with five weeks vacation, 12 sick days, 4 floaters, +other. Good pay, and job securty, hard to replace.
But on the family side I am out, friends not so, but due to my work hrs not to many stop by.
If I could learn to type, maybe a temp job in a office?
.
Good point.Originally Posted by Lorileah
Some things are better left unsaid and very often that is the fairest thing to do. You are so concerned about women, yet you advocate behavior that will in many cases destroy their lives. I think this is a matter for each of us to sort out privately, depending on the circumstances. We've got everything on here from teenagers at home to retired grandparents and everything in between, and each case is complex. We cannot arbitrarily decide what is "fair".
:2c:
Last edited by sheidelmeidel; 11-24-2009 at 04:50 AM.
I came out to my best friend and my ex(both women). Both said they wish I would have told them sooner. They both told me not to tell anybody else. This would make my life a lot harder. They know others in my life would not be as understanding and loving. I live alone and don't have any children, so this works for me. Both have taken me shopping and shown me a lot of love and support. At this point in my life I'm happy with my cding stage. My closet is just fine.
Last edited by Cary; 11-24-2009 at 05:37 AM.
Cary
I'm sorry but what a horrible sentiment. "Ruin her life," seriously? Do you loathe yourself and your crossdressing that much? and how dare you put "be yourself" in quotes as if it is such a trivial and useless thing. I really find it reprehensible how much you sit in judgement over the people who have had the courage to come out and have had to deal with the repercussions. I don't think anyone comes out on a lark, and if someone decided to do it they probably had a pretty good reason to do so.
If you want to stay in the closet, and you feel you have legitimate reasons for wanting to do so, that's great, then do it and be happy with your decision, but don't spit on people who knew they weren't happy and had to do something about it. Everyone isn't the same, and it's really kind of crappy for you to come on this board and shoot fireballs at the people who have come out as if they're somehow bad people who are selfish. How happy do you really think their marriage was before they came out if they were keeping secrets about themselves from their partner?
And if someone did come out, and their marriage fell apart, do you really think they need you to dig the spike in that little bit deeper with your anonymous pot shots from behind a screen name? You think they haven't already heard it a million times from their family, their wife's family, her friends, etc. Why do it here, the one place where a crossdresser should absolutely be able to come to in order to get support and compassion.
This whole sentiment of it ruining the woman's life though, that really bugs me to see it coming from people who crossdress themselves. How are we ever going to expect the world to see that what we do isn't wrong and should be accepted if we can't be at ease with it.
-------------------------------------------------
~Riley
Check out my trans themed standup on YouTube!
My Tumblr Blog
Again, I say, whoa. Fair is fair. As you point out we cannot arbitrarily decide what is fair that is up to the person whose life is being changed. It isn't "fair" to get into a relationship, where the spouse has expectations, and then drop a bomb on them. They have invested time and emotion into the relationship. That is their time and emotion, not yours, that they have used to build what they see as a solid foundation. The people who have already arbitrarily decided to supress this information have already arbitrarily decided what they think is "fair".
Yes, I am concerned about the women. When you hide this information, you are taking the control of their lives away from them. They are along for the ride, blissfully enjoying the scenery until you decide to take your 300slc off road without warning. You didn't say "Hey lets go for a drive and sometime in the future I am going change direction." No you said "hop in, it will be beautiful (right up until I push you from the car." I still have trouble believing that so many people here who want everyone to accept them, hide that very part and then throw it out like a red flag. "Take me as I am or else!" and when the woman chooses the "Or else" part they are stunned. Shocked that she didn't see it coming. Shocked that they just didn't embrace this with full open arms.
If you kept this from your spouse until you had children and grandparents at home then the fair thing is for you to not dress and not bring this out at this point. It may not seem fair to you, but you made that decision when you asked your wife to marry you. You can live with it now, that is fair.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
.They are along for the ride, blissfully enjoying the scenery until you decide to take your 300slc off road without warning. You didn't say "Hey lets go for a drive and sometime in the future I am going change direction." No you said "hop in, it will be beautiful (right up until I push you from the car." I still have trouble believing that so many people here who want everyone to accept them, hide that very part and then throw it out like a red flag. "Take me as I am or else!" and when the woman chooses the "Or else" part they are stunned. Shocked that she didn't see it coming. Shocked that they just didn't embrace this with full open arms
I agree with you in some regards, and I think we both seem to agree on the idea of being open about it up front (not meaning first date but rather before/as things get serious) but one thing to consider is that no marriage/relationship follows a straight path. That's part of the the point, isn't it? To have someone to grow with and change with and meet the world with.
You're right, to just dump this on someone is a harsh thing to do, especially if they've been living with you in their lives for a long time with no idea. But there's more options than just the two extremes of either having been open when you first got together, which is impossible to re-do if you're already with someone, or just never dressing because it isn't fair to them. This second one is hardly an option because as anyone who has ever tried and failed to purge can attest, it can actually be worse in the long run in regards to emotional well-being.
People make major life changes all the time in relationships, new careers, new hobbies, even moving to new cities, and they make it work. It is possible for someone who wasn't comfortable enough with their self when they originally got married, to eventually get to the point where they are at peace with it. And with that, just like with the other examples I cited, they have to remember that their marriage is a partnership. So when this major life change is happening, they have to work through it with their partner, and give their partner the compromise and tools they need to work with them on it. Things like counseling and giving their partner time and resources to understand them, rather than just dumping it on them and saying "accept me or it's over" spring to mind.
In the case of a crossdressing spouse coming out, the majority of the heavy lifting falls onto the crossdresser, because they have had decades of time to come to terms with information that is just now being presented to their partner to digest. However, to be quite blunt, some of the responsibility is still on the partner to show that the "better or for worse" part of the wedding vows mean something to them.
-------------------------------------------------
~Riley
Check out my trans themed standup on YouTube!
My Tumblr Blog
Could not have said it better, thank you.
We come out for a number of reasons as one can read in this thread. I came out to my SO when we first started dating because I did not want to continue to lie to my partner anymore as I had been to my other partners for years. I have yet to come out to my adult children but if they were to find out I will be open about it with them. Besides my SO I have come out to other individuals who are a part of my life this given me freedom to be my fem self when with them although my personality is not very different in male mode either just with less feminine flare. I do go out in public often and enjoy that liberation as well.
That sounds like a cop-out, but it is the fact. My wife and I discovered Tina together, so there was no "coming out" but more of a "discovery". Frankly, I'm not sure why anyone else needs to know. First of all, I am a very private person and I have no interest in explaining my personal feelings to anyone but my wife. Secondly, I've recently seen some friends act in a terrible manner having seen two drag queens heading to a performance. Their condemnation was startling! I'm pretty sure that I can do more to change their attitudes without their knowing my personal business.
I view my feminine self as a deeply personal part of me. Both my wife and I are very interested in protecting Tina...my wife has used those very words.
And why is my wife in a different category from the rest of humanity? She's my wife.
tina and him!
Perhaps this will sound like a fake story to you; I don't really care. I'm a paper pack-rat and could (given sufficient time) pull out the receipts and get doctor's reports and testimony from my wife and relatives to prove what I say. Oh yeah, and I have some date-stamped pictures too.
6 years and 11 months ago (to within a day), I suddenly got extremely sick. I'd been under a quite high stress load, and when my tasks were finished, I didn't just get a little tired, I had what in the old days would be called a "Nervous Breakdown". I was barely functional for the next year, but had no idea what was wrong with me: I'd gone to a doctor within 6 weeks and he put me on his wait-list saying he could take me "in 2 to 3 months", and I put my trust in him... I was still on his wait list a year later. Meanwhile, I was in terrible shape, collapsing from exhaustion 45 minutes to 90 minutes after I woke up, rarely making it to work, rarely able to get myself out the door, unable to visually focus on the horizon, unable to initiate anything, with a temper so short that half of a word from my wife was enough to make me furious. And I had no clue at all -- not until about this time 6 years ago, when I was bored and looking for anything interesting in the paper, and happened to read the requirements for a clinical trial that was starting up, and matched 11 of the 12 possible symptoms where matching 2 to 3 was enough to qualify you for the trial. The clinical trial was related to clinical Depression: so I finally had a name for what I was suffering from, major Depression.
Now it is literally impossible to understand major Depression unless you've had a taste of it yourself. After-all, "what's so hard about" (say) just taking some dirty dishes from the counter and putting them in the dish-washer? If you haven't Been There and Done That, then if you can't/ won't do something as easy as that, you're just being laaaazy. Those who have suffered from Depression will, however, understand when I say that when I approached the counter (after postponing the task for 6 days), the closer I got, the more I felt like throwing up.
Depression isn't just "you are somewhat unhappy at your life circumstances": Depression is a serious chemical imbalance in the brain that can lead to all kinds of problems. For example for me it was accompanied by major panic attacks. "Panic" is an often misunderstood medical term: it isn't phobia, it isn't running and hiding because of a fear that one is conscious of: instead it is any time that your mental activity manifests in physical illness. For me it meant spending literally hours a day on the toilet (gastro-intestinal effects are the most common panic symptom, affecting 30% of panic suffers... but rarely for as many hours a day as it was affecting me.)
When I did finally get in to see (a different) doctor close to 14 months after my initial collapse, the doctor looked at me, pushed briefly on my skin and watched the return to colour as the blood flowed back to the area, and informed me that without question I had been suffering from Depression for not just a year, but for at least 5 years before that, probably longer. He was looking at how yellow my skin was, which was a function of my cortisone level, which was so high that my brain must have been fighting with itself for a minimum of 6 years by the time I saw him. (In retrospect, knowing what to look for, we can date the onset to at least 16 years before present -- that is, at least 9 years before my collapse.)
The doctor put me on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety medication: between those two, I was at least able to get to work -- but I was still severely sick.
And then after being on medication for 6 months, I discovered that I was a cross-dresser: I had, from time to time, in the years previous, put on some of my wife's things "to see how they look" so I could shop better for her (I loved shopping for clothes for her), but it wasn't until 5 years ago that things clicked in my mind and I realized that I wanted to wear women's clothes... in public! By that point, I'd already been together with my wife for 9 years.
For various reasons, I did not tell my wife immediately, but within 3 weeks I was out in public in a skirt in a major mall, without even any kind of wig (but with some lipstick, probably): something that a number of the members here haven't been able to bring themselves to do in 40+ years of knowing about their cross-dressing. I joined the local cross-dressing club within 3 months of realizing I was a cross-dresser (would have been a month sooner but for accidents of communication timing).
And what I found was that cross-dressing was one of only two things that I could actually initiate and plan and drag myself out the door for, and that within about 3/4 of an hour of getting out the door dressed, that the cloud would lift off my mind, I would be able to focus and think in long coherent stretches, and my feelings that "life is never going to get better!" would fall away. Cross-dressing was, in short, to me, a better "medication" by far than anything to be found in a pharmacy.
Years later, what we (my doctor and therapists) have come to understand is that I was almost certainly born with an unusual brain, and that my brain has been in gender conflict with itself since age 5 at least (that is, we can trace back incidents and behaviours at least that far.) When I was younger and more resilient and had less responsibilities, my brain used to be able to compensate -- but under the heavy stress I had at work and in some other areas of my life, it stopped being able to deal with the situation.
You might be wondering what this all has to do with "ruining the life" of a spouse by coming out. The answer to that is this: that as long as I did not come out, the brain conflict remained and intensified rapidly, and if I would have kept my cross-dressing hidden, I *would* have collapsed again, and probably would have lost my job, with it not being clear that I would ever again have been in a state to take on another job that required high intellectual functioning. I might have been able to handle stock-boy... if the company was forgiving about not always being able to get to work within 3 hours of the scheduled time. Even with the medication, I would have been left pretty much in a state where my wife had to take care of me as a sick and probably fairly unpleasant person.. "fight or flight" reactions. The alternative was to acknowledge my gender differences and deal with them openly and wear the clothes as I needed to wear -- and by so doing, heal into an unusual but functioning person.
Thus you can see that if I had remained in the closet, my wife's life would have been ruined even more surely than would be the case upon coming out. A secret kept locked inside me that was making me sick was something my wife could not have coped with, as she would have been missing essential information about what was really happening. The secret revealed... it isn't the happiest of things in her life, but it can be adapted to.
I have a couple of GG relatives whose lives are absolute messes, who are still being emotionally abused by their NPD (Narcistic Personality Disorder) husbands more than a year after separation, ex's-to-be that retain their hold by refusing to settle financially or emotionally nor to do anything about making the breakup official so that the GG's can get on with their lives.
Me... I go to work, I pay all of the joint bills (except the cell phone), I do what I can to help my wife with her very sick mother, I hold my wife tenderly and comfort her... and I happen to wear borderline women's clothes much of the time. It isn't always easy for her, but some compromise in a relationship is a big difference compared to having your life "ruined" (e.g, like my unfortunate relatives' lives have been.)
It's not relevant to me, but I don't suppose you meant that. Theoretically I agree with you, but it just doesn't always work out that way. People change with time and sh-t happens, as a previous post mentions.
I think it's quite common for someone to get married at a young age and think that their CD'ing, assuming it has already become manifest, will disappear with marriage. And yes, it may go into remission for years subsequently. But when you get older, and the stress of middle age comes along, and your sex life with your wife isn't what it once was, the old urges surface again, and then you're in a pickle - damned if you do, damned if you don't. Dressing up might relieve your stress and improve your marriage - but if your wife finds out, that might destroy it. No two situations are alike.
Huh? You talking to me? Doesn't sound like it. You've turned everything I said completely upside down. You saw one phrase you didn't like and went off on a rant that has nothing to do with my remarks.
Last edited by sheidelmeidel; 11-24-2009 at 05:08 PM. Reason: posts merged, use the multiquote function please.
Obviously there is no "one size fits all" solution here.
If you are TS or transitioning, then at some point you will need to come out. But if you are just recreational CDing, I see no need to flaunt it or come out. It's not always about you.
Consider this. Even if your wife or SO accepts for the time being, many will be quietly making plans to leave, or considering their options. How many posts do we read in here, about "She seemed to accept for a while"? If years down the road, they decide on a divorce, the CDing will surely be brought up, or be used in a custody battle, even if it's not the main reason for the breakup.
If you come out to your kids, they will tell other kids, or their teacher at school. Other kids will tell their parents. While it's not unlawful to crossdress, many of your unenlightened neighbors might consider you a sex offender. Once the genie is out of the bottle, you can't put it back in. So I would certainly give it a lot of thought, before putting yourself in such a vulnerable position. You need to consider all the possible complications, and not just fantasize about sitting around the house in your nylons and heels in front of the wife and kids, or wearing a mini skirt to the family reunion.
I will try and rephrase this one more time. Even if the reason stated OUTLOUD in the world is "He dresses like a woman" there is much more under that when it comes to divorce. It is the selfishness, the attitude, the lack of sensitivity...it rarely is just the clothes. I have to love all the people here who believe that women have an agenda. That they sit and plot a way out of every relationship and just wait to pounce at the smallest reason. It isn't just one sided you all. There is more than the dresses. It is something often many things that you do that leads to the divorce.
As long as we, yes I said we, as a community continue to believe that we are bad people who are somehow "touched in the head" then yeah, your neighbors will buy that too and the teacher (who could not give a plug nickel as long as your kids don't look abused) because he/she only wants your kids to get smarter and advance to the next class not what you are wearing at home. You keep seeing the boogey man behind every corner you will never get anywhere.
Come out, don't come out, the world will continue to spin (for at least another two years or so). But as long as YOU believe you are wrong so will everyone around you. If you want to stay closeted and one day your wife finds you dancing in your thong and she leaves, it isn't because of what you wore, it is because you didn't warn her ahead of time. But don't come back on here and cry because she left. You had your chance, you blew it, you kept hiding and lying. Look in the mirror. Are you a bad person? I didn't think so. Why do you keep hiding then?
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
I saw a phrase/sentiment you repeated in different posts in this thread. Maybe you should re-read what you wrote because if you think what I said wasn't relevant to what you've been saying, you have very much misrepresented your position in this thread.Huh? You talking to me? Doesn't sound like it. You've turned everything I said completely upside down. You saw one phrase you didn't like and went off on a rant that has nothing to do with my remarks.
and that's the point. You seem to want to apply how you feel to everyone else. Personally I don't care if you ever come out. Do what makes you happy, but the way you trivialize the reasons people come out when they do, it's just closed minded and arrogant.
and people have given you reasons why they did feel the need to come out.But if you are just recreational CDing, I see no need to flaunt it or come out. It's not always about you.
Melinda, do you not see how hyperbolic and insulting that last phrase is? I mean holy Moses do you really think the people who came out while married are doing it to wear nylons and heels in front of their kids or just to wear skirts to the family reuinion? Seriously? Coming out isn't a trivial decision for anyone. Again, YOU may have no qualms about being closeted. YOU may feel that hiding this from your SO is a lesser of two evils. This is not the case for all of us, I prefer to be honest.You need to consider all the possible complications, and not just fantasize about sitting around the house in your nylons and heels in front of the wife and kids, or wearing a mini skirt to the family reunion.
The thing is, I didn't quote all of your post to save on space, but you say "might" a lot. This *might* happen. This *might* happen. That's fear talking, that's Resistance. I used to feel the same way. The difference between your mindset and that of those of us who came out, is that we'd rather be open and roll with the punches and know who we are than live a lie. I tried it your way and it didn't work for me. I'm glad it does for you, and I hope it continues to.
-------------------------------------------------
~Riley
Check out my trans themed standup on YouTube!
My Tumblr Blog
Great post Lori, thankyou
I will repeat bits of your post again :D
think they gonna listen to this part highlighted ?
YUP, so true
hey girl u beating a dead horse, it has to be all about the cding .... "Don't it"
errrrrrrm yup AVEB is what I am:D
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
*spewing my punch everywhere!* You did what? :Angry3:
I might can respect the spirit of what you're saying here, but I could never do that to my kids. And for all your principle -- and it is admirable -- what about the principle of protecting your kids from all the confusion and s**t that will rain down on their young heads cuz dad's a "pervert"? There is a big difference between being willing to take the hits yourself and insisting that your kids follow you into that kind of fray. There's nothing wrong with teaching our kids to stand for what's right, but there's nothing wrong with giving them a traditional dad, either. Ask them what they want and I betcha most choose the latter every time. Maybe we should have been thinking about all this before we had kids, not after. Maybe a case can be made for coming out after your kids are grown and out on their own (I couldn't, but maybe your situation is different), but while they're young and still dependent on you, I say you dealt the hand, now play it out.
I understand the point you're making, but to me, 10 a month is a horrifying number.
Oh yeah I forgot the we are perverts rule. Silly me. Lets reinforce that some more and not educate.
I think I have had enough of this thread. You all want to keep the status quo. As I said as long as we think of ourselves as wrong we will be wrong. Lets not try and break any molds.
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Lucky I did then .............. because before I moved my 12 year old (he was 12 then) down here he had met both Debs and Male debs, he was asked if hew wanted to move down here ...... he couldn't wait ............. he was devastated when at one time it looked as if Debs and I were not going to be tog (long story no need to repeat it here)... he asked to speak to her and it was through his intervention that things got cleared up ............. there again I have a child who is amazing, he looks beyond the outer person a manages to see the good that is there, both Debs kids and my other two kids know about Debs (they are adults and leading their own lives).
My 13 yr old (he had a birthday since we moved) amazed both of us one day when we picked him up after a late school session (he stayed back for an hour to study) .... Debs and I had been out for the day and rather than dash home to change, we agreed for her to remove her wig, earrings, and put on a denim jacket and a cap, so that if any of his mates glanced in the car all they would see was MR D to all intents and purpose, after he settled in the car he said "HI DEBS" .... MR D said sorry I didn't want to look like Debs in case any of your mates saw me .......... HE REPLIED "I don't care if they do, it is none of their business, you are a great person and if they can't get past looks then that's their problem not ours" ............ note the phrase "NOT OURS"
Our hand has been dealt and we are playing it
I allow myself to set healthy boundaries ..... to say no to what does not align with my values, to say yes to what does.
Boundaries assist me to remain healthy, honest and living a life that is true to me
By being honest with them about something that is an undeniable part of you? No person can ruin another free persons life unless the other person allows them that power. Our experience with any matter, a great session of lovemaking or having just been fired is always subject to our interpretation and what we decide to do with it. One person can experience that event in a completely different way than another. Everything is always about any individuals personal experience with the event, nothing else. At the most fundamental level that is what is always happening.
Life is difficult at best many times, and we each decide our path. If your partner is truly committed to the relationship with you, there should be an expectation of hope when coming out. If the SO just clean rejects it completely and/or wants to just walk away I seriously question the health of that relationship previously.
Oh, and FWIW, I suspect the original poster had mal intent from the beginning with the tone of the comment. I think it should have been deleted by admin, as it just seems inflamatory from the get go to me. I believe that is evidenced from the replies from a good number of thinking people here. Poster wasnt really looking for respectful back and forth or info. Just a degrading off hand series of comments
Happiness is a choice.
Lorileah, the unfortunate truth that many of us share is that we've been told all our lives that we are "touched in the head". It is very very difficult for many of us to get past that.
I could reply with equal sarcasm, but I'll try to resist and reply only by noting that you failed to address the points I raised, and by asking if you have young children of your own? As for the cause of enlightenment you are espousing, our particular exchange isn't the alpha and omega of such a large issue, but rather only one very important portion having to do with protecting innocent children from stigma and humiliation, not to mention the likelihood of financial hardship, marital discord and a host of other problems.
I said it once and I'll say it again: there's a big difference between being willing to take on the dragon yourself and demanding that your loved ones, especially innocent kids who trust you to protect them, join the battle. Not all draftees are willing soldiers, you know.
That is not to say, however, that I do not do what I can to combat prejudice. In fact, I dare say that unless you are completely out of the closet, I probably do as much as you for the cause.
Jim, when I used the term "pervert", I did not mean that as a reflection of how I feel about myself, but rather how society views us. I guess I assumed that was understood. My bad, perhaps.
Last edited by sherri; 11-24-2009 at 07:00 PM.
I wish I was brave enough to come out. I am really getting tired of the feelings of shame. The shame has lead to me purging several times. I think life would be a lot simpler if I came out. Those who except me will except me and those who will not will be out of my life. But still I am not brave enough to make it happen.
Has this thread ever taken on a life of its own! wow!
I must admit that I think there is nothing wrong with keeping my femininity private from everyone EXCEPT my spouse. With her I vowed to share everything and I will keep my promise.
I never promised to share every feeling and personal persuasion with my child, my relatives, or my co-workers. In fact, the less personal stuff I share with them, the better, and 99% of it has nothing to do with CDing. Ok, surely I share with my child at an appropriate level, but what is shared is between my wife and me, and no one else.
If anyone wants to discuss or display their personal life, including their feminine self, that's great! I choose not to and I don't see why that decision is at all incorrect, just as I think that anyone who does has the perfect right to do so!
tina
This thread should be closed due to the malicious intent of it's author
:canada:
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