Telling the SO, Bad Reaction, Giving up CD'ing

[Miss Misery]

Thanks for your candor, Michelle.

I made a mistake by not telling her before marriage but I didn't know the truth about cd'ing. I thought everyone like that transitioned. Plus it was sexual early in my life, so I had ever reason to believe that I could beat it. Since I had no desire at that time to transition. Being in my early 20's, high sex drive and a gorgeous GF was too much. When I married I had no desire at all to crossdress but that changed about one year later.

I think that this happens to a lot of us.

What is she going to think when she finds your stash after you die? She is going to think that she never knew you at all destroying much of what you had together.

Why would she think she never knew me? Is that all I am is a CD? No. She just didn't know THAT. Like she doesn't know that she farts in her sleep If you're worried about her jumping to conclusions then leave a written explanation with your stash.

Besides if you live a lie all of your life, what did you miss by not being truthful with her.

Ask Giorgi about this one.

I'm not advocating lie, lie, lie, at all. Just that coming out to whoever is no guaranteed nirvana. It carries great risk that some might not be willing to take at that time.

[AKAMichelle]

Why would she think she never knew me? Is that all I am is a CD? No. She just didn't know THAT. Like she doesn't know that she farts in her sleep If you're worried about her jumping to conclusions then leave a written explanation with your stash.

Ask Giorgi about this one.

I'm not advocating lie, lie, lie, at all. Just that coming out to whoever is no guaranteed nirvana. It carries great risk that some might not be willing to take at that time.

People if they hide one thing they usually hide another. The more items which are found after the fact leaves people to draw their own conclusions. That is a problem for me since I don't want people drawing their own conclusions after I die. That's why I became an open book to my family. I quit hiding things from them. Even though I am going through a divorce, my wife is still my best friend. She has learned a lot about me in the last couple of years. Plus even with the divorce I am not hiding assets from her. She knows exactly where we stand and what she gets. I just can't live with her without fighting all of the time.

Telling a spouse usually has bad consequences for a long time at best. the longer you have waited the harder it is for them to accept us. Even though it would / could end my marriage, I would still tell. See I have done a lot of things which were wrong to my wife and she still loved me. She just couldn't accept this about me. My cd'ing just adds another level of fighting and I am so tired of fighting. I am at that age (50) where I want thing to settle down and get quieter now that my kids are leaving the nest. I have done my time raising my kids and I want to enjoy the rest of my life with someone special. Who loves completely and accepts everything about me. Someone that when I touch her hand it feels like magic. Somebody who compliments me (I don't need completing) and makes me want to be a better man / woman. :D

[Phaedra]

........but do not ever denie yourself...............

All the strength, good luck!

[Miss Misery]

Hi Michelle,

I know you are speaking from experience but there are some assumptions here that just aren't right.

People if they hide one thing they usually hide another.

Some people yes, other people no. That's just not fair to assume that if you hide being a CD then you're going to hide other stuff too.

I don't want people drawing their own conclusions after I die.

You will never know so what's the difference. We're all taking the big dirt nap eventually. Do you care if they're drawing conclusions about you right now (behind your back)?

the longer you have waited the harder it is for them to accept us.

I'd like to see that data. I doubt there's much of a relationship between the two.

You and I are the same age, Michelle, and I understand where your coming from with that part of your comment and wish you only the best in finding that someone special. My point is and has been that the whole CD/SO relationship, including tell/no tell and when/how, is so specific to each couple that it's nearly impossible to make one recommendation that will fit all situations. As someone trying to figure out how to make it work myself, I would love it if there was a secret recipe for success. It's just not so.

Reading your post, I really feel your anguish AND truly truly wish you the best!

[MsJanessa]

just curious---you have been married 31 years and you are telling your wife now--you said it was because of some of the comments made by others in the forum (not me btw---although it is a good thing to let a potential SO know at the start of the relationship revealing it after 31 years might not be such a good idea---you really have to decide if you want to risk ending the marriage) You must have been quite good at hiding your xdressing if she had no idea after 3 decades that you like to cd---why did you initially decide to not to tell and why did you maintain the secret from her for all that time. Was it because you knew pretty much that she would have the reaction that she is having?

I know that in many marraiges of that long a duration, the couples stay togather not so much because they love the other person, but simply because they are afraid of change and don't want to have the upheaval of a divorce in thier life, so they put up with unhappiness of having to suppress who they are. When that kind of thing happens, it is natural for that partner to really start to resent the other. Do you think you can avoid that feeling if in fact you do stay in the marraige---it seems to me you are pretty entrenched in xdressing and it would be difficult, if not impossible to give it up, only now she is "onto you" and it will be harder to do it in secret--you should take some time, get your own counseling sessions, without your wife, and decide what you really want out of your life.

[Kerrie Sifton]

After 29 years I spoke up with my spouse. It was triggered by her finding charges on a credit card at a corset shop. ( I had become more open in my addition of clothes.) And it did spook her. Why now, versus just hiding it again or denying it? Well after being on this site for a several years and pushed the boundaries from a simple closet cd to something more, I felt it was time to review my own sense of self and declare what I was experiencing. Self honesty was a starting point.

Are things smooth now? Not entirely, but they are progressing, and it takes time. The 29 year relationship just got a bit more complicated. My SO did some research too and found that no she does not care to go too far with the dressing, but that many of the things she likes about me are related to my feminine side.

So it remains complicated, but workable.
And the dialogue continues.
Each of us has to find our own way and each of our spouses will require lots of care.

Thus we wish Georgi all the best in the next stage.

[AKAMichelle]

People if they hide one thing they usually hide another.

Some people yes, other people no. That's just not fair to assume that if you hide being a CD then you're going to hide other stuff too.

Notice that I said usually. Hiding and deceiving someone else becomes a habit. Especially when you do the hiding to prevent a fight. It is easy to justify that it is ok in this circumstance and the behavior becomes a habit.

You will never know so what's the difference. We're all taking the big dirt nap eventually. Do you care if they're drawing conclusions about you right now (behind your back)?

I personally care what legacy I leave for my kids and family. I want my loved ones to know me for who I really am.

I'd like to see that data. I doubt there's much of a relationship between the two.

What I am referring to here is that the longer you hide the more distrust and hurt there is to overcome when you finally do tell them. If you had been married for one year and then told your wife, it would be much different than if you told after 40 years of marriage. The longer that you are with a person the more connected you are and the harder to deal with something this big and difficult to understand.

You and I are the same age, Michelle, and I understand where your coming from with that part of your comment and wish you only the best in finding that someone special. My point is and has been that the whole CD/SO relationship, including tell/no tell and when/how, is so specific to each couple that it's nearly impossible to make one recommendation that will fit all situations. As someone trying to figure out how to make it work myself, I would love it if there was a secret recipe for success. It's just not so.

Reading your post, I really feel your anguish AND truly truly wish you the best!

There isn't a sure fire way to tell a SO. There are too many variables which can't be taken into account. Every couple is different. I think that is why Georgi failed so far. His wife was different from a lot of others and he did the best he could but it just wasn't enough.

[Lorileah]

I agree with Michelle on this. I don't remember a thread here that ever said "I have been married a long time yesterday I told her and she is accepting 100%". The long term this is you have "baggage" that accumulates over the years. You have a mortgage, then you have children and then the children have school and then you have to pay college. All this time things get "comfortable" and the spouse thinks you are what she sees when in fact you are growing more and more uncomfortable with this secret. And yes crossdressing isn't your only secret. You start sneaking out or you start drinking or whatever. IF crossdressing was the only "lie" you have, you are a doing well. But even if that is the case the spouse will wonder what else you are hiding and when you have that slight suspicion it becomes a BIG suspicion and even if you are perfect in every way she will think there is something else.

I am all for telling and the earlier the better because you and she have a life. The longer you hide this the more entwined that life becomes. And the messier it is. Unfortunately the majority of people on these boards are over 40. The 20 somethings out there are buried where most of us were 20 -30 years ago with the idea that it will go away of their spouse will be OK with it later after the house is paid and the kids are grown and we are retired. What I don't get is the shock people have when they are married 20+ years and they drop this bomb wih no pretext. I don't get the "she should have guessed" and the "she could not believe it". These are the same reactions we see when a spouse is caught in an affair, or whatever secret life they think they have.

Miss Misery (interesting name BTW...don't you think?), Michelle is telling her experience. I wish it was an uncommon thing but the longer you wait the worse it is. There are no studies. No more than there are studies about hos often other things ruin marriages. But I can tell you that if you tell before the burden becomes huge the aftermath is lot less messy.

This whole thread isn't about the fact that someone came out. It, at least to me, was a shocked reaction that the wife reacted incorrectly. 30 years is a long time. As I said before it amazes me when there was no communication between either party that would have given an indication of how this would go. Never a hint about how she felt about men is skirts. Never a hint about her feelings of how a :man: should be. Both parties were real good at not showing how they felt on this matter for 30 years. I sure would not want to play poker with them because they don't show any reads. I still think writing a letter or email or anything like that is extremely impersonal. It prevents two way communication in real time. That is what I believe was the fatal flaw here. Not in the telling but in the HOW it was told. The longer you play the bluff the higher the stakes and the bigger the risk of losing the pot. When you fold early you will be able to play longer and more hands. Just basic poker philosophy here.

[Terraforming]

Don't start this stuff again. Isn't this whole thread about how this blew up in Giorgi's face? Others in the closet on here need to recognize that there is inherent risk in the "best policy".

Thanks for quoting me out of context. I said that if Georgi's plans go awry and the urges to dress come back in full, then he should be honest with himself and not reject those urges. So in that case, I do hold that honesty is the best policy.

[Katheryn]

With all of the violence and hate in the world, it is just sad that something as simple as a desire to dress a certain way can be taken so badly.
Juno

Yes, when I was coming to grips in the 80's with being a crossdresser a friend expressed her confusion over why it was all such a big deal. As she said at the time, "It's just clothes!"

Kate

But...I'm always surprised to read something like this:Surprised that anyone could consider a relationship wonderful or solid or perfect when one of the people in it is horrified, repulsed or otherwise turned off by who the other person really is.

As was pointed out to me when coming to grips with the fact that I couldn't not be a CD, that I couldn't bury my girl half in the back of some closet without the thumping of her high heeled feet on the closet wall disturbing my mental state, I owed my wife the truth. I, too, thought I had a wonderful marriage, but one brutal friend pointed out that I had a wonderful lie. It would only be a wonderful marriage if I came out to my wife and we were still together after all the smoke of the burning lies cleared. Now, almost two dozen years later, I have to say that friend was correct. We're still together and it is a wonderful marriage.

Kate

Lessons learned from us Ghosts of Coming Out Past:

- Come out to the one you love before you get married.

- Coming out after marriage will have consequences sometimes significant.

- Once you come out the closet door the locks and there is no going back in.

- Teleprompters are not suitable for use during your coming out discussion with your spouse.

Amen sistah! I wish I'd come out before my marriage, but then again, at that point in my life I hadn't truly come out to myself.

Kate

[Rachelyorkcd]

99% of women will never understand the cross dressing fetish, so the answer is simple - dont tell them or if you cant keep a secret from them - forget about cross dressing.

[Lorileah]

99% of women will never understand the cross dressing fetish, so the answer is simple - dont tell them or if you cant keep a secret from them - forget about cross dressing.

87% of all statistics are made up on the spot. Wow and I thought I was harsh with Georgi. You just deflated everyone on these boards. Women may have preconceived or learned notions about us. Women are intelligent beings who have the ability to learn and reason. Women are not concrete. Women care. I won't buy 99% will never understand. I think 99% can understand if things are explained in a calm and logical manner. Free from all the learned and reinforced fallacies that society has planted in the minds of people. What is the first thought many women have when their husband comes out? He wants to be a woman. Smooth that over and then it is he is gay. Both of these stereotypes are learned from media and ethno/theocentric teachings. Both are not true. When we get past those, then women can see that we are not monsters or perverts. And ask the GG;'s here you will see that they really really like us (usually...mostly). But the key is calm communication. Not throw it in your face take it or leave it. There is compromise and sharing.


And let's drop this fetish stuff already. That is the reason I first posted here and hurt Georgi's feelings (sorry girl). It is NOT a fetish. It is not some sexual thing in most cases. It is a part of the people here. It is NOT a psychological problem or a disease. It is no different than a person who "has" to wear a suit to work or they are not really doing the job as they think it should be done. It is no different that having to be a farmer, or teacher or doctor because that is how you feel you are. A fetish is by definition, something that is required to function sexually (when used in a sexual context...it is really an object that one uses for spiritual purposes to gain powers...which in this case may be true in a few cases also).

We have had society change it's views of race, sex, religion, ethnicity and have shown that the stereotypes that were perpetuated by society and especially media were just that stereotypes. We need to now teach society that we are not creeps or weirdos and we need to start doing it by not calling what we do a "hobby" or "fetish" or sexual perversion.

[Shelly67]

99% of women will never understand the cross dressing fetish, so the answer is simple - dont tell them or if you cant keep a secret from them - forget about cross dressing.

And pubic hair is Peter Rabbits cousin right ??

[ReineD]

Referring to Lorileah's entire post #112

Very well said, Lorileah.

[AKAMichelle]

I have found that women can understand it but not all can accept. I think the key to acceptance is telling them early enough that they don't feel trapped in the marriage and giving them time to work through it. It is a little hard at first, but it can be done.

Plus cd'ing may be a fetish to some, but for many it is not. I started out thinking that cd'ing was more like a fetish only to find out at 50 that it is nowhere near the definition. Being TG is a moving target which defies labels. Every person is different and they are every changing. That is what makes acceptance so difficult without being 100% honest and lots and lots of talking.

[pj]

I think the key to acceptance is telling them early enough that they don't feel trapped in the marriage and giving them time to work through it.

Seems to me though, that if someone is going to become physically ill at the thought or idea of their husband in a frock, they are going to have that reaction whenever you tell them. "Tell early, tell often," is good advice, but the other person's preconceived notions are what they are.

And if they have preconceived notions that are that utterly negative, when all else is said and done (therapy, time, etc., etc) the odds that you are going to be left with a great relationship seem slim to me.

[SIZE="1"]Sorry, I just can't get over the puking thing. That takes this into a whole other realm beyond the typical negative reaction. Every time I see this subject I think, "Oh, there's the puking thread."[/SIZE]

[Shadeauxmarie]

This is true for everyone. I can't imagine living a life, feeling I could not disclose who I am to the people I love.

Well, how many people on here have told everyone they love at the same time? It appears to me, Georgi told her wife when she was comfortable. Maybe she didn't understand the complete picture for years. I know I thought for years (20) I was the only guy who got sexual pleasure from wearing women's clothes. How do you tell your spouse 30 years ago? Many of you are judging Georgi on TODAY'S morals. 30 years ago was different. No internet, back then.

People HAVE hidden many things from their spouses. Some because they loved them. When my wife asks my opinion of how she looks, I always say "Great." If you had a one noght stand on a business trip, would you absolutely tell your spouse even though you know it would ruin your marriage? Even though you knew it would NEVER happen again?

The people here on this forum have given largely good advice. It just seems so sanctimonious on this thread. Please give Georgi credit where credit is due. She told her spouse in hopes of a deeper relationship knowing the potential price. She could have continued as she had for the previous 30 years.

Live long and prosper Georgi.

[Lorileah]

Totally different thing telling your spouse she looks good (which honestly if she didn't you should probably tell her the problem before she goes out if the dress is too tight, short, ripped, wrong color whatever...anyway so she won't be looked at strange all night.) and having an affair and comparing that to keeping crossdressing a secret. I try very hard to not say things like that here because it puts dressing in the same category as cheating. It isn't the same. The thing here is that the majority of people who dress and keep it a secret "to protect their spouse (from????)" are really not doing anyone a favor by staying hidden. I keep talking investment because I think most people on here understand at least simple economics. You tend to build up a nest egg through life (hopefully) that your spouse and you worked for. She has half that. Now let's take that as emotional value. The longer you keep it a secret the more emotional equity your spouse has. Then after 20-30 years you say "Hey you know that account we have been adding to? Well I have not put as much into it as you have because I didn't think you should have my total emotional attention." How should she react? You can't really cash that in but she had ideas of how life would be. If you tell her early (if not before marriage at least before you get too deep in attachments) they can find someone who fills that need if she deems it necessary. Some will say "that's cool but we have to set limits" and some will say "So what? it isn't important". Some will say "I can't handle that". But they can go on and so can you.

It doesn't make it go away if you keep an affair hidden and even if you can get away with it, you are damaging that equity. we can argue "morals" all day. But this whole thing is not about affairs, stealing money, drinking too much, being a drug addict, or any illegal activity you want to compare to. It is about who you are, inside and although this is now taking this thread off track, it would behoove us to quit thinking we are a) criminals or b) some sort of psychological or theological misfit. As long as we have these feelings about ourselves how can we bemoan how things go when we come out? In the case of this thread it wasn't the telling so much as the not telling for so long. If Georgi had not had feelings that she was "wrong" to dress, she could have come out earlier. Too late for Georgi but not too late for the current generation. Let's decriminalize ourselves and maybe the rest of the world can see we are not bad people.

[AKAMichelle]

Well, how many people on here have told everyone they love at the same time? It appears to me, Georgi told her wife when she was comfortable. Maybe she didn't understand the complete picture for years. I know I thought for years (20) I was the only guy who got sexual pleasure from wearing women's clothes. How do you tell your spouse 30 years ago? Many of you are judging Georgi on TODAY'S morals. 30 years ago was different. No internet, back then.

People HAVE hidden many things from their spouses. Some because they loved them. When my wife asks my opinion of how she looks, I always say "Great." If you had a one noght stand on a business trip, would you absolutely tell your spouse even though you know it would ruin your marriage? Even though you knew it would NEVER happen again?

The people here on this forum have given largely good advice. It just seems so sanctimonious on this thread. Please give Georgi credit where credit is due. She told her spouse in hopes of a deeper relationship knowing the potential price. She could have continued as she had for the previous 30 years.

Live long and prosper Georgi.

I think I have perspective on the subject that you are talking about. Nobody is judging Georgi for not telling 30 years ago. I didn't tell and I had the same information as Georgi. Next to nothing information wise. I made a mistake just like Georgi by not telling, but hindsight is always 20/20. Now the hard part when you didn't tell originally is when to tell now. That is a tough one. And even when you do tell, it isn't pretty. All of the stars don't align and heavens break out into song. In fact it is usually hell on earth for a while.

Now I am giving Georgi credit for trying and I hope everything works out for her. I told my wife for many of the same reasons as her. Tired of lying to my wife and wanting to get my marriage back on track and move it towards a deeper relationship. It didn't work for me and so far it hasn't for Georgi. Just because telling may result in a problems for awhile doesn't mean that you shouldn't tell your spouse. But that decision is up to each of us. No one can second guess the decision we make.

As for the one night stand, that too unfortunately I understand about. I made a lot of mistakes while married. Some 15 years ago now, I did have an affair which my wife never found out about. I didn't tell her because I didn't want to hurt her, but it did its damage to me. I guess that is fair since it was my fault. I am not advocating telling your wife everything especially if it won't affect her any further. but that just isn't the case with cd'ing. CD'ing is an ongoing thing. It is a deeper part of you than a one night stand would ever be. So in that case cd'ing must be told or you are cheating your marriage of the trust and honesty that it deserves.

[ReineD]

Well, how many people on here have told everyone they love at the same time?

You took my quote out of context. I was saying that I would not be able to hide who I am from my loved ones (in Georgi's specific case, it is her spouse) for so many years. I was saying that yes, there is some value in telling the truth for the spouse, but the benefit is mainly for the CD, so that she can be all that she is. I used "loved ones" as a general term. Of course you don't tell your entire family all at once, but it does begin with a spouse. And not after 30 years.

I also said that it is quite a different matter if it is not a gender ID issue, if it is a sexual thing such as it was in your case 30 years ago.

In Georgi's case it may not be just a fetish. My point was that she musn't blame the forum for advocating honesty. She would not have told her wife unless she felt the need to do so. We all know from reading threads here that things come to a head eventually, and CDs do tell because they feel they can no longer hide. And Georgi risks continuing to suffer even more if she tells her wife that the CDing is no longer a part of who she is. But, this is moot if for Georgi, it is indeed a sexual fetish and not a question of gender ID. Georgi hasn't clarified this for us yet, however.

If you had a one noght stand on a business trip, would you absolutely tell your spouse even though you know it would ruin your marriage?

If my relationship had deteriorated to the point where I followed through with infidelity, then I would have to tell my spouse. This would be a huge red flag indicating that we had issues needing to be addressed.

The people here on this forum have given largely good advice. It just seems so sanctimonious on this thread.

Everyone is doing the best they can to help Georgi, according to their own experiences. Advice is not sanctimonious just because it disagrees with yours.

[tammygirl79]

All I can say is that I am so sorry to hear what you are going through! My thoughts and my heart go out to you two, and I wish you all the best in getting through this!

[Satrana]

This whole thread isn't about the fact that someone came out. It, at least to me, was a shocked reaction that the wife reacted incorrectly.

I don't agree that is the issue. Shocked reactions are the norm and being physically ill is not that uncommon either.

Georgi posted his story as a warning. Georgi knew his wife, knew she would not accept his CDing and so he was adamant that he would never tell her. They have had a happy marriage for 31 years because of this arrangement.

Then he found this forum and entered into a pink fog. No doubt envious of others' open relationships and reacting to posts about honesty he put aside what he knew and dreamed of a different future. His wife's reaction has snapped him out of his pink fog. Now he is struggling to save his relationship and regretting he ever found this forum.

The point is that there are people in this world who value happiness and normalcy more than total honesty. There are GGs on this forum who have stated that they wished their SOs had never informed them about the CDing so that they could have continued living in blissful ignorance.

Life often sucks and people routinely have to make significant compromises and sacrifices chasing after happiness. Not telling about one's CDing, especially if it is primarily sexually orientated, is a sacrifice many are willing to make in exchange for a happy life.

We should not forget that total honesty is a idealistic notion. Most of us will chase after it regardless but for others hiding something from their SO is the best choice.

If there was a Matrix moment where people were asked to choose between the red or blue pill representing total honesty or blissful happiness, I think you would be surprised how many people would not hesitate to swallow the blissful happiness pill. The original Matrix movie was built around the very notion that people were more content being submerged in banal normalcy than facing the harshness of reality.

[Lorileah]

I don't agree that is the issue. Shocked reactions are the norm and being physically ill is not that uncommon either.

I meant to say that Georgi and some others here thought she cated incorrectlt. My bad. She reacted as she did because it was how she felt at the time.

Georgi posted his story as a warning. Georgi knew his wife, knew she would not accept his CDing and so he was adamant that he would never tell her. They have had a happy marriage for 31 years because of this arrangement.[

One could argue that point. If Georgi was happy then she would not have tried and change things. Let's just say they had a comfortable marriage.

The point is that there are people in this world who value happiness and normalcy more than total honesty.

Arrrgggghh!!!! two words there that really don't work well. "Normalcy" defines what? Average? What you are told you should be? The middle of the bell curve? and "total" honesty as an antithesis. No one is totally honest. It is choosing what to say and when to say it

In that manner I agree that people will choose ignorance and the illusion of happiness if given a choice. But now Georgi has chosen to think that they can go back to ignorance and find happiness. Is it better to fore go your own happiness for another? Philosphical question in deed. Is making others happy better than making yourself happy? And if you are unhappy doesn't that transmit to others around you and make them less happy? And in the end, do you get points for making more people happy and allowing yourself to be miserable. There are no correct answers here. But I know men who worked their whole lives to make their spouse and children happy and died sour grumpy young men. Would they have been the same if they had pursued more happiness for them? And when they die or leave the family when they are in their 40's or 50's are the ones left behind happy? Whole can of worms isn't it?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

l. The original Matrix movie was built around the very notion that people were more content being submerged in banal normalcy than facing the harshness of reality.

and millions and millions of people cheered on the the HERO of the story as he stood to fight for honesty...jeez....

[Paisley GG]

I just want to put in my two cents in for the wife. For good or for bad, she is entitled to her reaction...it was an instantaneous response to something that just sent her world off kilter.

We all know there is a lot of closed minded folk out there, and hopefully it will be less so in future for all sorts of folk.

However, she has spent 30 years thinking of her spouse a certain way and holding a certain view of the rest of the world. All of a sudden nothing is as it seems...one of those disorientating times.

All we know about her is that she is quite conservative in her thinking and she pukes when receiving shocking news...We can speculate what it means and maybe we might be right but at this point it is story we tell ourselves. The point is she may be a lovely women who loves her family tries to be a decent human being. Enough so that Georgi has been reasonably happy to be in a relationship with her.

It is a difficult situation for all the parties involved...From what Georgi has said here he sounds like a decent person and I do hope him and his wife are able to work through this....I wish them both my best!