A Simple Question...

[Holly]

... I remember many years ago when I was in Europe, I was walking behind two girls with long blond hair, their walk was feminine, they had long coats on as it was winter so the slacks fit in my mental image, but all of a sudden they turned around and were 2 young guys that were a bit androgenous but I was just caught off guard by the long blond hair, and made the supposition that they were indeed girls...

So if I understand what you are saying, the two people you were following behind didn't do anything wrong. It was you who drew the wrong conclusion.

... The other problem I think is that gays have sort of spoiled it for everyone in the sense that they were seen as effiminate and so society thinks of crossdressers as gays, and though they made great strides in acceptance, they are not home free yet. We are guilty by association, and the interenet hasn't helped...

Homophobia is alive and well. At least that is what I hear you saying. Forgive me if I am wrong.

... Also, people don't understand, the same way we don't always understand our own motivations. I feel perfectly comfortable in my clothes and would wear them outside if society was different but we are a long way from a society that is not only tolerant but accepting. We just have to accept that as fact, venture out if it is safe and necessary.

We seem to be hitting reoccurring theme here that society's opinion is based on a lack of or flawed knowledge.

...I do not really think TG get judged a whole lot more than anyone else who isn't "normal". We may get it a bit more than many but not that much.

I agree with you. Still it is sad that people feel that they have to judge others at all.

I beleive it taught from the earliest ages that there is a difference and that a real male would not engage in such activity less he be labeled a "sissy" which if you are a four year old you have been taught there is nothing on the face of the earth that is worse than being a sissy.

But why are such things taught in the first place?

women in society see it as wrong because its not what their fathers did. Men think its wrong because they might be attracted to a gut enfemme and that scares them.

Succinct and to the point.

I'm no GG, but I think I can speak for my wife when I say it's about gender. It's not about as shallow as this item or that. It's about a man trying to personify a woman. For so's this is a real conflict because most of us base such a relationship first and foremost on our SO being a certain gender (usually the opposite one from us).

I'd like to believe this is true. But there is evidence to the contrary. On this forum alone there is account after account of partners purging their clothing at the insistence of their SO or other family member. And as to relationships being based on a potential partner being a certain gender, I would suggest it is not so gender based as it is sexual based. The desire to procreate is a strong driver. Having a same sex partner (or one who is perceived to be the same sex) complicates the process.

...Men in women's clothing is perceived as a rejection of these essential gender roles...

Just what makes these gender roles "essential" and who made that determination?

.....Modern women have been able to go beyond their gender roles in some ways, but they are still somewhat trapped. They still feel pressured to "stay home with the children" or to "be good homemakers" despite their forays into the masculine world of provisioning.

If women have been able to accomplish this, what is holding men back from doing the same thing?

Crossdressing is wrong in the minds of people who generally know nothing about crossdressing...

Another vote for inadequate or faulty education of the masses! [QUOTE=sissystephanie;2396149]...Women wear mens clothing all the time and no one seems to care, so why should men be different!! The only reason is just because they are MEN!! We are special, at least in the eyes of some people!!...Men are special? I'd like to hear more from you on this. It has been my experience that the woman was the one to be protected and cherished.

...It really shouldn't be Taboo because of the amount of people whom partake .. I think if the internet was invented 75 years ago it would not be Taboo today.. Before the internet most like myself kept dressing very deep in the closet .. Now that the internet is here Crossdressing is gaining exposer.. Take other smaller socities In one is an island off of austrelia <-- spelled wrong I know..To where Trans gender isn't taboo and is part of the culture. That is because the close knit soceity that had very little or outside influence..

Wouldn't it be interesting to know why some of these societies developed not only a tolerance for cross dressing but in some cases, a whole-hearted enthusiastic support of the practice?

...Well Holly just as walking around in a attire meant for the other sex is Taboo so is walking around naked..The Physics isn't physical it's mental..Other words it is like looking at a red light our brain doesn't say "wow red light" its says stop. Just as if you where to see a male in female clothing others are assumieing that person is either confussed or just a nut case you pick. Unless you have the Mega ball ticket you won't check to see if your numbers have came up.Just as unless you are a Cder or know someone you care about is ,you will never gain information needed to understand one.

Actually physics is very physical. By definition it is the study of all the physical things that make up the universe . But your "red light" point is well taken. We are programmed to accept certain things and reject others. I guess the question now becomes what basis do we use to make those judgments?

sociely has guild lines , men dress as men ,girl as girls, the gay movment has blurred the lines ,the rules dont work any more , if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck , but has the wrong pluming , it a crossdresser , and its not cracking jokes we dont know what to do ,

things humanity dont understand eather gets locked up , killed , or chased off

This thought opens up a whole bunch of cans of worms! What are these guidelines? who established them? Why are we bound to continue them?

Basically people are not afraid of crossdressing in itself Holly. They are afraid of the potential implications that are tacked onto it and the stereotypes conjured up by it.In essence most believe a man cannot remain being a man if he chooses to dress up like a woman. While most of us here know this is a crock, most of society does not. CDing in general will probably never be accepted but some folks who do CD are accepted by others for who they are as a person, presentation notwithstanding.It's that easy or that hard, depending on our outlook.

Here again, we are suggesting a lack of knowledge or understanding. Denise, would you care to comment further on the statement, "some folks who do CD are accepted by others for who they are as a person?" This may be one of the missing keys.

...When folks r out in public, they tend NOT to notice others much. When they DO notice u, there's a reason! They look at his dirty jeans, her tite jeans, her muffin top jeans, etc., etc. And, they THINK whatever judgmental thot they're used to thinking and simply move on!

So you see it as a matter of individual prejudices?

...When they see a man in a dress, I believe most folk's gut reaction is, "Sicko, perv, weirdo, etc., etc". And, then they move on and forget about it!:brolleyes:

Even though they have never interacted with such and individual. They had to get that preconceived notion from somewhere.

...I think if most individuals got to KNOW a CD personally, we wouldn't be so widely reviled...

You and Denice seem to be on a similar wavelength .

See this thread http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...men-reject-CDs
and use the search function. This has been discussed many times. It seems people like to rehash over and ask the same questions over and over again, hoping for a new answer. And sure, when you're here, 'preaching to the choir', you'll get nice, supportive answers a lot. But in the real world, men do not typically dress and act like women, we are seen as unstable and unreliable persons, because our behavior is not what people have grown to expect from men. You can't change human nature.

Lexi, I have been around this forum for quite some time now and certainly longer than you. The thread you referenced is not the same as being asked here. GG's have plenty of reasons to reject cross dressers and not all of them relate to the act of cross dressing itself. What I am trying to get at is why the act of cross dressing is thought to be a wrong thing to do. What I'm hearing most is that it is because it is not understood. That in and of itself is understandable because many (most?) of us struggle to understand it ourselves.

...The answer to your first question is that cross-dressing in-of-itself is not wrong. It is the answer to the second question that is the critical one. The collective body that is general society is conservative in attitude and action. Western society has come a long way since the 1950s but there are still many hang-overs from that time. Just look at the general murmours of "disapproval" of the father who takes paternity leave. Yes, it is more acceptable but it is a long way from being considered a right equal to that of maternal leave. Crossdressing challenges society's norm that "men should dress like men". Note that I do not address women dressing in men's clothes as this is far more accepted by general society.

We seem to keep circling back to society's "norms." Perhaps we need to have a better understanding of who establishes these norms and approach the issue from that standpoint.

This is a great discussion and I appreciate everyone's participation. I look forward to some of our Loved Ones joining in as well.