Bi, when dressed

[Elizabeth Ann]

If he can only love being with men when he fantasizes himself as a woman, then the sexual experience isn't so much about who he's with, but his fantasy about himself, such as experienced with autogynephilia (the love of oneself as a woman), and the guy then is just a prop. If this is the case, I would not want to be that guy. I would feel used. But, that's just me.

Reine,

Isn't this the very proposition that "bi when dressed" proponents are suggesting? This seems to me to be a reasonable statement of what they are experiencing. I would even go so far as to suggest that if sexuality is defined by actions, or even by immediate desires, these individuals are indeed straight in male mode and bi when dressed.

And I wouldn't worry too much about the man feeling used. I would suspect that he would have few complaints either way.

Liz

I'll give you that. I were a man having sex, then I guess I wouldn't spend too much time feeling used. :D

If sexuality is defined by real-life actions, then it is incorrect to assume that someone is bi just based on a fantasy. It is more accurate to say, "I am a hetero male who fantasizes about men when dressed because it emphasizes my femininity. The man is a prop, and in real life I'd run away screaming".

I do believe this is what the people in the thread are saying. You're bi if you do it and enjoy it (but then you'd be bi all the time, not just when dressed), but if you only fantasize about it then it's just a fantasy.

Or do I misunderstand what you are saying?

Now I am a bit confused. I thought your hypothetical was of a crossdresser so caught up in the fantasy that she/he does consummate a relationship with a man. Operationally, this would appear to the casual observer as an individual who is straight in male garb, and bisexual in female attire, regardless of their internal motivation.

I assume from the posts in this thread, and elsewhere, that there actually are crossdressers who have sexual relationships only with women when in male mode, and include men as well when in female mode. This is what I meant by sexuality defined by actions. I didn't think discussants were denying the existence of such persons, only that they were deluding themselves about being straight. I suppose that in your scenario, many might argue that such a person was deluding themselves about being bi.

Liz