Are We Addicted?

[LeaP]

I wonder (really) how many SO's would prefer suppression over their partner's health or even life. If there's a theme in this and related threads, it's self-sacrifice. I just wonder how many would take it to the literal, logical end. It's interesting that the many who can see the psychological urgency in TS identity issues have trouble extending it into the non-TS, TG realm. I.e., crossdressing, after all, is "just" crossdressing. It's selfish, it can be started and stopped like flipping a switch, it's superficial and external, it's an addiction (just like smoking!) etc. etc. etc.

Answering my own question, I bet a LOT of SO's would be willing take a hit to their partner's health "for the benefit of the relationship." And a few would indeed prefer the partner to drop dead.

Lea

[Shananigans]

Oh, Lea, you still don't believe me. You see that without dressing as a woman, there is little to no outward expression of my gender. I couldn't disagree with you more. To be a duck you might say it should look like a duck, walk like a duck, and talk like a duck. Whether I'm wearing a plastic bag or a miniskirt, I still look like a woman, talk like a woman (this goes into more than just pitch), and walk the life of a woman. My outward portrayal of my gender is very evident in my actions and manners. These things are who I am...a woman. If I left it up to fashion to help me define my gender, I'd be a confused person indeed. If the latest fad isn't suits, it's meat dresses and Christmas lights.

I understand that dressing means something very different to a CD, but to me gender is not related much at all to my dress. It's by chance that society deemed it socially acceptable for women to wear dresses and men pants. Chance and chance alone governs this. In animals, we may see the male more flamboyantly "dressed" to attract the attention of women and to give off cues about his health. How am I supposed to let dress be such a defining role in my gender identity when clothes are impermanent and could be easily changes in value tomorrow.

Again, I could be done with them tomorrow. I'd miss them...but, for reasons that are mainly not gender-related issues. What can't be taken away is how I carry myself, my attitude, the way I talk, and my presence. All of these things are apparently female because it is my identity and how I see myself internally and it's translated externally.

Now, is it so bad to CD or just to be a nice looking GG? Heck no! I love clothes! I can see the appeal of them to my SO. I imagine that out closet will continue to expand. However, neither of us is addicted. We don't have a problem. And, i feel like that's my main point. It doesn't matter what gender means to you or to me. Just because I don't see my gender as really dependent on my clothes, it doesn't mean someone is wrong if they do find it dependent. But, it would be sad we for some reason we all had to wear burlap sacks from now on. Id be mad because I like my cute clothes, but it wouldn't give me a gender identity crisis. Hope this made sense...I'm on my phone ugh

[LeaP]

Oh, Lea, you still don't believe me. You see that without dressing as a woman, there is little to no outward expression of my gender. I couldn't disagree with you more. To be a duck you might say it should look like a duck, walk like a duck, and talk like a duck. Whether I'm wearing a plastic bag or a miniskirt, I still look like a woman, talk like a woman (this goes into more than just pitch), and walk the life of a woman. My outward portrayal of my gender is very evident in my actions and manners. These things are who I am...a woman. If I left it up to fashion to help me define my gender, I'd be a confused person indeed. If the latest fad isn't suits, it's meat dresses and Christmas lights.

I understand that dressing means something very different to a CD, but to me gender is not related much at all to my dress. It's by chance that society deemed it socially acceptable for women to wear dresses and men pants. Chance and chance alone governs this. In animals, we may see the male more flamboyantly "dressed" to attract the attention of women and to give off cues about his health. How am I supposed to let dress be such a defining role in my gender identity when clothes are impermanent and could be easily changes in value tomorrow.

Again, I could be done with them tomorrow. I'd miss them...but, for reasons that are mainly not gender-related issues. What can't be taken away is how I carry myself, my attitude, the way I talk, and my presence. All of these things are apparently female because it is my identity and how I see myself internally and it's translated externally.

It's not a question of belief. We're still talking past one another. Basically you responded (this time, that is) with a list of other OUTWARD manifestations of your gender identity. Again, I was asking whether or not you could give up ALL outward expression, not just dressing. Of course dressing is (relatively) superficial to you - you presumably live a complete, integrated, female life.

The expression problem runs deeper than any one particular manifestation like dressing. When gender expression is suppressed, you never develop. Were you put in a position growing up where all outward female expression were not possible, your gender identity would still be firmly female - but you wouldn't actually have developed as a woman in any meaningful way. You wouldn't be capable of responding or acting in any kind of gender-coherent way. You'd be almost certain to manifest typical dysphoria symptoms. You'd feel female but wouldn't actually know what it was to BE female in the real world.

Crossdressing is a coping mechanism to resolve gender identity psychological pressure. It's also a psychological enabling mechanism - by putting female behavior in a female context, it relieves a male crossdresser of the conflict of manifesting the same behavior as a male. As such, it's not merely dress-up in the playacting sense, and it plays a different fundamental role than routine gender presentation does for a cisfemale. This is a psychological need or drive that's very different from addictive behavior (though, again, a crossdresser could complicate with that also).

Lea

[ReineD]

It's interesting that the many who can see the psychological urgency in TS identity issues have trouble extending it into the non-TS, TG realm. I.e., crossdressing, after all, is "just" crossdressing. It's selfish, it can be started and stopped like flipping a switch, it's superficial and external, it's an addiction (just like smoking!) etc. etc. etc.

This is tangential to your discussion with Shannon, but I want to mention, it is the CDing husband's responsibility to educate his wife. A TS will reach a point where she feels no choice other than be who she is. There can no longer be compromise, which is unfortunate for her family if they are not on board with the transition or the living full-time, but it is what it is. They split up and move on with their lives. Of if the family is on board, they work through it.

But, many of the CDs who are having issues with their wives are NOT standing up to say, "this is a part of who I am and I need to express myself occasionally". Instead, many remain silent out of a desire to not rock the boat, and instead come here to post their frustrations. Heck, we have members here who are even reluctant to say they are transgender and they tell themselves and everyone the CDing is just something they DO, which perpetuates the idea that it is a choice. If these members are dressing openly in front of their wives and the CDing is just a pasttime for them that's fine, but it is not good to keep it a secret out of a reluctance to address the issue especially if it is more than just a hobby.

There are CDers who haven't reached the level of full self-acceptance and deep down they continue to feel guilty for putting their wives through having to be married to a CDer. So they are torn internally between feeling a need to dress and also agreeing with their wives' positions that it is bad to put a marriage through this. So, they suffer in silence, or hide while telling themselves there is no harm in engaging in a pastime their wives don't approve of, or they build resentments over having to repress themselves to the point where divorce looms a few years down the road.

And in the midst of this rat's nest of misunderstanding and strife, a popular coping mechanism is to escape in a fantasy world or give into some of the compulsive behaviors that can be associated with the CDing, which makes matters even worse on the home front. It's like trying to keep the dam from leaking with an index finger, or keep the lid on a ventless pressure cooker with a piece of tape.

It's difficult on everyone and the best solution in my opinion is to put all cards out on the table and get real. And then deal with the consequences ... like pulling a band-aid off quickly rather than prolonging the pain.

And by putting the cards on the table, I mean acknowledging to the Self and the Other that the CDing is a need and not a choice.

[DonniDarkness]

My name is Donni,
and i am addicted to Love.....

it is the CDing husband's responsibility to educate his wife.

Being a cder in a marriage (10years in Dec.!) where i have been open about my gender expression (even though i did not really understand being TG then) i have come to understand that i have become -dependent- on my spouses love for me....the WHOLE ME. The only way i was able to become educated about Transgenderism was by working all these things out for myself, 8 years ago i had no education about who i really was inside i just knew i was different. So i started educating myself not really knowing where to start, except i knew that this was something i could not do without her love. My honesty to her early in our life together is what educated us both over time.

This thread talks about being addicted to CDing as in having a dependency...then uses street drug/financial analogies to back a terrible definition of addiction. Im not ok with this.
If one were to use the terms addicted and crossdressing it should be at least done in such a way that does not make us appear to be the dirge of society.......street drug users and financial abusers make an active mental -choice- when they exercise their -dependencies-....... Crossdressers who are TG are born with the needs we have there is no addiction in that.

The addiction comes from irresponsibility, dishonesty, and denial........and not on the -dependency- of your needs as a crossdresser...

Slightly Annoyed,
-Donni-

[Aprilrain]

street drug users and financial abusers make an active mental -choice- when they exercise their -dependencies-...... Crossdressers who are TG are born with the needs we have there is no addiction in that.

The addiction comes from irresponsibility, dishonesty, and denial........and not on the -dependency- of your needs as a crossdresser.

If its an addiction its NOT a choice. Over one hundred years of chemical addiction science out there and people still don't get it. This does not bode well for transgenderism!

I would say irresponsibility, dishonesty, and denial come from being addicted not the other way around

[Ria]

The addiction comes from irresponsibility, dishonesty, and denial........and not on the -dependency- of your needs as a crossdresser...

I can respect not comparing CDing to substance abuse or other dependencies. When we dig deeper into the issue it calls into question personal motives etc, and as such will bring about our other labels for our compulsion to CD such as self expression... but aren't we splitting hairs here? Can't we call it what it is?

If it's a desire to express, and the desire is compulsive, then isn't that a form of addiction? I suppose the words we use are just the "map" not the actual "territory". the meaning of "addiction" can mean different things to people. I guess I don't feel the need to differentiate the term addiction but I could see how it conjures up negative emotions to the term.

[DonniDarkness]

Addiction starts with a choice.

irresponsibility, dishonesty, and denial; can and are symptoms of mental/physical addiction. Addiction; as in the context of this thread and in most definitions; is something that starts with a -Choice- at some point. The shopping addict chooses to keep shopping despite the toll it is taking on their finances and denies the fact that they responsible for it. The drug user chooses to chase that next fix and denies the problems it causes in their lives. There is a choice there.

A dependency is not made by choice.

A dependency can be something you are born with, as in the way that people who are born with diabetes are dependent on insulin. None of us just up and out of the blue choose to be TG. There is internal feelings in each and every one of us that has always been there that makes us CD or Express Ourselves.

I find it disheartening that people in the community would find crossdressing a compulsive desire caused by addiction.

-Donni-

[LeaP]

This is tangential to your discussion with Shannon, but I want to mention, it is the CDing husband's responsibility to educate his wife. A TS will reach a point where she feels no choice other than be who she is. There can no longer be compromise, which is unfortunate for her family if they are not on board with the transition or the living full-time, but it is what it is. They split up and move on with their lives. Of if the family is on board, they work through it.

But, many of the CDs who are having issues with their wives are NOT standing up to say, "this is a part of who I am and I need to express myself occasionally". Instead, many remain silent out of a desire to not rock the boat, and instead come here to post their frustrations. Heck, we have members here who are even reluctant to say they are transgender and they tell themselves and everyone the CDing is just something they DO, which perpetuates the idea that it is a choice. If these members are dressing openly in front of their wives and the CDing is just a pasttime for them that's fine, but it is not good to keep it a secret out of a reluctance to address the issue especially if it is more than just a hobby.

There are CDers who haven't reached the level of full self-acceptance and deep down they continue to feel guilty for putting their wives through having to be married to a CDer. So they are torn internally between feeling a need to dress and also agreeing with their wives' positions that it is bad to put a marriage through this. So, they suffer in silence, or hide while telling themselves there is no harm in engaging in a pastime their wives don't approve of, or they build resentments over having to repress themselves to the point where divorce looms a few years down the road.

And in the midst of this rat's nest of misunderstanding and strife, a popular coping mechanism is to escape in a fantasy world or give into some of the compulsive behaviors that can be associated with the CDing, which makes matters even worse on the home front. It's like trying to keep the dam from leaking with an index finger, or keep the lid on a ventless pressure cooker with a piece of tape.

It's difficult on everyone and the best solution in my opinion is to put all cards out on the table and get real. And then deal with the consequences ... like pulling a band-aid off quickly rather than prolonging the pain.

And by putting the cards on the table, I mean acknowledging to the Self and the Other that the CDing is a need and not a choice.

Yes, on every single point. Sorry to quote the entire post, but I think 100% of it is spot-on.

Lea