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Thread: Ever get tired of all the negativity towards us TG people?

  1. #76
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katesback View Post
    PS I have been saying the same thing about the fact that many sit and complain about the perception of CDs in the real world but then are unwilling to do anything to effect change.
    Yes you have, but with all due respect, most people have a hard time seeing what your saying through the tone of your posts.

    One thing I do like about your posts is how kind and gentle I look in comparison. ;-)
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
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  2. #77
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Melissa, I'll use my SO as an example of identity CDers (or bigenders, or dualgenders, or TGs, or whatever other noun we choose to use). She is not embarrassed, nor is she secretive to the point of paranoia about it. We do leave her home fully dressed, although if the neighbor is in the front yard she'll wait for him to go inside. Nor is she a macho douchebag when she dresses. lol

    Rather, she is all too aware of the fallout at work (and her parents who are in their 70s, and my sons) should this be known and so she has needed to balance (not compartmentalize) her dualgender nature carefully. She also acknowledges her male self and she knows the world experiences angst when confronted with feminine men, let alone men who like to take it one step further and present fully as a woman, because their nature is a combination of both. I rather think most of the world is more ready to accept a woman who is totally a woman (who used to be a man), once transition has been accomplished. There's no conflict there. Or maybe not. There must be a reason why many TSs seek FFS and go stealth.

    But, this is not my SO's path. She needs to deal with a blended gender and this is what society simply does not understand. They still very much see it as a perversion and insist that gender is binary. Not everyone, but enough people in our personal lives to cause negative consequences. We don't care what people outside our personal lives think. This is why we go out in the next towns over.

    Edit
    I would so welcome living in a society that truly accepted men who chose to present a feminine version of themselves. Can you imagine living in a world where a man could be sensitive and pretty, feel sensitive and pretty, could easily incorporate traditional female ornament since his/her exterior would then be a truer reflection of who she/he is inside, and not be looked down upon?

    But, this is difficult for many traditional people to take in, just as difficult as it is for them to personally and professionally know a man who dresses, whom they define as male (vs. female since most people have no concept of a blend), and accept the blend without assigning any preconceived notion of what this is.

    Yes, there are totally liberal people (I am one of them) who do not discriminate from the heart and not just at face value. But I rather believe this is rare, at least this is my conclusion based on conversations I've had with friends and family.
    Last edited by ReineD; 03-20-2012 at 02:22 PM.
    Reine

  3. #78
    Member Jeninus's Avatar
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    This thread has morphed from Marleena's original thought regarding the negativity she perceives as being the lot of TG people to the pros and cons of coming out of the closet. Katesback has expressed the view here and elsewhere that many, if not most CDs are actually TSs who are afraid to come out of the closet. Further, she has also suggested that many CDs are, in effect, also closeted bisexuals who would and will hit on other CDs or TSs for sexual gratification. This has raised a storm of protest from CDs who reject the notion. Others are concerned that such "information" being put out on this thread and others could cause families to break up when GG SOs, who are in a very delicate relationship with their CD spouses or SOs should read this stuff on the threads. It will only intensify the stress and anxiety in those families. Probably most CDs on this site would find climbing into bed with a guy to be such a stomach-churning event that they would never do it...dressed or not.

    I recently posted a thread on this site that Nigella moved to the TS site for policy reasons. It asked TSs to tell us how transition has affected their lives and what advice they would give young people at the crossroad of their lives, whether to go down the transition road or not.

    So far, 121 have viewed it but not ONE of our brave TSs have shared their life's experiences. I would think many of the 121 viewers are CDs or SOs looking for this information. Of course it's not scientific, it's anecdotal, but it is the best real information that could be available to any of us. I hope that Katesback and Badtranny might take up the challenge and give us some of the benefit of their experience.
    Shame on those who think ill of us -- Translated and paraphrased from the motto of the United Kingdom's Most Noble Order of the Garter

  4. #79
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeninus View Post
    So far, 121 have viewed it but not ONE of our brave TSs have shared their life's experiences. I would think many of the 121 viewers are CDs or SOs looking for this information. Of course it's not scientific, it's anecdotal, but it is the best real information that could be available to any of us. I hope that Katesback and Badtranny might take up the challenge and give us some of the benefit of their experience.
    I'll make your invitation official by posting the link here:

    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ion&highlight=

    I'd like to remind members who identify strictly as CD and who have not transitioned to not respond, in order to comply with our Specific Posting Requests rule:
    http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...spec_post_poll

    However, since it is impossible to establish a hard and fast division between TS and CD (in many cases it is a process), I rather believe that many people who straddle the two can respond, even if they've transitioned partially (at least in exterior appearances) by presenting feminine to family, friends, and/or at work.


    ... and now, back to our regular programming. Please do not respond to Jeninus' thread here.
    Reine

  5. #80
    Administrator Tamara Croft's Avatar
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    I get sick and tired of the TS v's CD's on this very board, even in this very thread you can see it and to be quite honest, I'm bloody fed up with it. So I'll tell you what I think shall I? If I see anymore arguing or bloody bickering, he said/she said :BS: between the two groups, then there is going to be concequences. If you value your membership here, then I suggest you play nice, because quite frankly this us v's them mentality is getting old!
    Administrator

    Missing my Libra babe Sherlyn, I hope she's rocking up there with the angels
    Missing our Rianna, doesn't seem right, gone to early, hope she's partying with Sherlyn

  6. #81
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeninus View Post
    This thread has morphed from Marleena's original thought regarding the negativity she perceives as being the lot of TG people to the pros and cons of coming out of the closet.
    Only superficially because I believe the root of the negativity begins in our own community. RD's well stated points notwithstanding, I think there are many things a CD can do to get the wheels of change rolling without actually coming out to the public. Coming out to select friends is a good start. Being an openly supportive friend to a TG person who HAS come out. Defending TG or gay people when your neanderthal friends make rude comments. Even these things though are anathema to those that have yet to accept who they are. Listen the negativity starts in your own heart. What you see in the rest of the world is largely based on your own perspective. If you are ashamed, then people will be ashamed of you. A timid and fearful person is almost inviting aggression from the ignorant among us. It is entirely possible to be proud of who you are without announcing that to the world. Imagine if you won the lottery but you were unable to say anything for a year. You would be happy, excited, content, and looking forward to your future and you wouldn't have to say a thing for people to notice the difference in your attitude. This is what it's like when you have accepted yourself for who you are. For me, it's like winning the lotto every time I don't have to pretend I like girls. I'm thrilled every time I can openly flirt with a cute bartender, or when a hot guy walks by and I watch him the whole way right in front of the straight friends that I was trying to fool just a few months ago. There is no amount of money that would be worth not being proud of who I am.

    The negativity you find is the same that you were seeking.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
    www.badtranny.com

  7. #82
    In transmission whowhatwhen's Avatar
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    One thing keeps coming up though, where specifically Kate mentioned seeing 'TS Issues' in the CD forum?
    The thread was modded a bit but the examples were hormones and dating men but I've not seen any examples here.

    Note: I'm not trying to start a war here, I'm purely curious about what others are seeing.
    Posting mood: Lighthearted, honestly!

    Honestly though, I do greatly respect and admire those of you brave enough to live your lives and not care what others think.
    You're more inspirational than you think, and that others will let on.

    They'll find their way out of the closet eventually.
    :P

  8. #83
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whowhatwhen View Post
    Honestly though, I do greatly respect and admire those of you brave enough to live your lives and not care what others think.
    You're more inspirational than you think, and that others will let on.
    They'll find their way out of the closet eventually.
    :P
    Thank you, and all my blabbing is just me trying to BE the change. It's one thing to be a good example to the "normal" people out there but the other part is to come to the choir and preach about what I've seen. I promise you that those of us who have seen the other side are not looking for props or kudos. I don't need the approval of the "community" and I guarantee you the same goes for Kait, or Bree, or April, or Melody, or any of my outspoken sisters. We are here to share what we've learned and to give back some of what we got when we were still on the edge ourselves. I mean come on, I only began this journey in 2010! I'm a babe in the woods compared to some of the girls on this board, not to mention so much younger and more delicate. (couldn't resist).

    I can only hope that my words can inspire someone to find themselves the way others inspired me. There is nothing more glorious than living an authentic life. Nothing.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
    www.badtranny.com

  9. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Listen the negativity starts in your own heart. What you see in the rest of the world is largely based on your own perspective. . .
    The negativity you find is the same that you were seeking.
    Melissa, I think you're making some good points here. You're trying to be upbeat and encouraging, and I don't want to discourage you from doing that. I appreciate people trying to encourage me, because quite frankly I'm a chronic worrier.

    However, I don't think we can ignore the fact that there is some real negativity out there. It's not in my heart, it's not just my perspective, and it's certainly not something that I would go seeking.

    Just recently, e.g., there was a story on the net about a five-year-old boy who was identified as TG and who now, with her parents approval, is living as a girl. Some of the comments below that story were absolutely vicious. My favorite one was the woman who said, "My dog thinks he's human". That was her reply to the question, "How could a boy think he's a girl?" When people are comparing us to dogs, that's a sort of negativity that's objective, not just my perception.

    Now I personally am still in the early days of trying to figure out where I want to go. I'm very happy to listen to you and learn from your experience, because you've got worlds of it, and I've got none. But I do think it makes sense to note that there is some very real negativity and hostility out there. I do need to be realistic about what I'm facing. Basically, for the first time in my life probably I'd like to do something smart, so I do plan to look before I leap.

    Best wishes, Annabelle.

  10. #85
    Aspiring Member Anna Lorree's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    This is exactly what I'm talking about. I make a comment about not complaining unless you're working for the change and that is somehow interpreted as an attack. I would never suggest that anyone come out unless or until they are ready to do so, but if your are NOT prepared to stand proud then please do not complain about how un-accepting the world is. If the only CD's they see are the so called "bad examples" then show them something different. Show them a perfectly normal and well adjusted man who just happens to play dress up every now and then. Or a regular straight dude who just happens to be into feminine fashions. So many of you assert yourselves as manly men who "know how to handle themselves", well then stand up for yourself. Why is a femmy bottom girl like me not scared of other dudes, but the macho guys are acting like scared little girls, while they talk the big talk.

    Or you could stay in the closet and act horrified and persecuted when a loudmouth like me calls you out on your BS. P.S. I don't mean YOU specifically, but you and yours generally.
    I know the reason, and I will say it; loss of male privilege. The other reason is fear of the unknown, in other words what will we (I'm still wrestling with this myself) lose if we come out? I am out to my wife, my therapist and one old friend from high school. Another reason I'm not out is that my wife fears the same things I do, and fears losing respect "as a woman" for having married a man who wants to be a woman. I sincerely want to come further out in the future, but with a wife and children involved, it is not entirely my choice because it effects them as well as me. If I had accepted what I was before getting married... That is my great regret with regard to this.

    All that said, you are absolutely right. It is like the Gay Rights movement, homosexuals didn't start getting respect until they stopped hiding. CD/TG/TS people won't gain respect until we stop hiding, which means pulling on our Big Girl panties and telling the world that we want to play or even be a girl.

    Anna
    "If you're going through Hell, keep going."
    -Winston Churchill

  11. #86
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Only superficially because I think there are many things a CD can do to get the wheels of change rolling without actually coming out to the public. Coming out to select friends is a good start. Being an openly supportive friend to a TG person who HAS come out. Defending TG or gay people when your neanderthal friends make rude comments.
    Yes, yes, and yes. I might even add joining a TG support group even if it means changing on the premises the night of the meeting. My SO began by doing this until she was confident enough to be out and about in the mainstream everywhere (in the next towns over). There are ways for CDers to express themselves without having to be out to parents, bosses, their church communities, their children's friends parents, etc.

    The trouble with an expression like "coming out of the closet" is, unless someone is specific as Melissa above, it is too easy for closeted members to misconstrue it as meaning they should be as "out" to their communities as transitioning or transitioned TSs.
    Reine

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Lorree View Post
    I know the reason, and I will say it; loss of male privilege.

    Anna
    That wouldn't be my reason, Anna.

    Annabelle

  13. #88
    Platinum Member kimdl93's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Anna Lorree View Post
    ...

    All that said, you are absolutely right. It is like the Gay Rights movement, homosexuals didn't start getting respect until they stopped hiding. CD/TG/TS people won't gain respect until we stop hiding, which means pulling on our Big Girl panties and telling the world that we want to play or even be a girl.

    Anna
    I do see a direct analogy with gay rights. As long as we're fully in the closet then the stereotyping continues unchallenged and people assume it's OK. I agree that "out" cantbe the same, at least initially, for each of us. But thoseof us who begin to come out help overcome the prejudices we all face...one person at a time.

  14. #89
    In transmission whowhatwhen's Avatar
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    I'm also going to disagree with male priviledge, all I have to do is look how much my mom gave up to know just how coddled men really are. And the nerve of some of them to say THEY are the ones who are under attack! RAAAAAGE!

    You need LOTS of trust to come out to someone, some of us may not have anyone we trust enough to confide in.
    Personally it makes me quite sad that IRL I deal with this all within myself, but judging from the few experiments I did I cannot guarantee finding any family support.
    One day though, I know I'll figure it out and be able to be out and pass on the same things you all are doing now.

  15. #90
    trans punk Badtranny's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse View Post
    Just recently, e.g., there was a story on the net about a five-year-old boy who was identified as TG and who now, with her parents approval, is living as a girl. Some of the comments below that story were absolutely vicious. My favorite one was the woman who said, "My dog thinks he's human". That was her reply to the question, "How could a boy think he's a girl?" When people are comparing us to dogs, that's a sort of negativity that's objective, not just my perception.
    ...but Annabelle you're making my point. What you see on the internet is only what you IMAGINE is outside your front door. There are indeed some awful people out there (Santorum anyone?) but only a select few miscreants will actually say anything to you in person. The internet is chock full of cowards and blowhards, and fakes and just because some hag compares a 5 year old little girl to a dog does not mean that she or anyone would confront you. The truth is she would likely be polite to you and then yak up a storm about it with her old biddy girlfriends later that night.

    Also, I am not suggesting that people come out and ruin their lives. I know it may seem that way but alas I can only wish I was still that naive. I am suggesting however that every CD take a good hard look at themselves and how they live their life. Self acceptance just rolls off of my tongue but I know for a fact that it is one of the most difficult things we will ever do. It is near impossible in fact but a good start is to begin openly accepting others. I don't mean in private with your inner circle only. I mean standing up for the TG person when you hear old biddy bidderton say something to her pal. Or speaking up when your buddies are bagging on the gay brother of one of their wives. There are a million opportunities for us to change the world without letting on our true nature. The problem is so many closeted CD's are too willing to stay quiet or even join in so they can maintain their cloak of invisibility. Did it ever occur to anyone that the wigs and dresses and makeup might be the disguise we use to hide from ourselves? How many CD's would rather stay home than be seen in drab by their CD friends?

    Be strong enough to at least accept others and soon you will be able to accept yourself. When you truly accept yourself you will begin looking for ways to come out instead of looking for excuses not to.
    Quote Originally Posted by STACY B
    At least there is social acceptance in being a drunk in our world. Hell I was good at it too.
    Melissa Hobbes
    www.badtranny.com

  16. #91
    Isn't Life Grand? AllieSF's Avatar
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    BadTranny: "Imagine if you won the lottery but you were unable to say anything for a year. You would be happy, excited, content, and looking forward to your future and you wouldn't have to say a thing for people to notice the difference in your attitude."

    Those words ring very true to me. As a very late starter I went from zero to out in the real world in a very short few months. My main obstacle to not going out sooner was the lack of a good sidekick who could ride shotgun during my first steps. I really knew nothing about this trip when I was first embarking on it 5 years ago. I can say now, my main advantages over most other CD's still struggling to leave the house include my age and hopefully corresponding maturity, a successful bout with cancer that helped me better appreciate that old saying "Live each day as if it is your last", living in a very diversity accepting and tolerating location, and probably my ability to look at things pragmatically (thanks Mom) and logically (thanks engineering education). I have learned through life experiences good and bad to only really worry about that which I can do something about.

    Now, back to Melissa's words. Ever since I started this unquestionably and accepted that this was part of my life whether I wanted it or not, I live those words almost every time I go out when I pause for a moment of wonder to wonder in amazement that I am a man dressed as a woman, trying to act like one, am out in the real world talking to complete strangers and really having one of the best repeatable times of my life. Repeatable in the sense that some things are fantastic but will probably not be experienced very often, while me dressing up and out happens 1 - 2 times a week.

    I know that a lot of society may have a negative view of what we are doing, but as Melissa said, the true chances for most of us to run into and experience that negativity is truly pretty small. The same can be said for the dangers of being out dressed a woman. Shit happens when we least expect it. With proper precautions and street smarts, it really comes down to that rare coincidence when all things, including some bad luck, come together at the same time, like the Perfect Storm.

    When a lot of people here talk about coming out, I think in the context of this thread, it really means going out of the house into the real world. I am out in that sense, way out. However, I still have my safe "no Allie" zone and situations that I respect. None of my friends, family nor ex-work mates know, nor, more importantly, need to know at this time.

    All this being said, my message here is that yes, there is negativity out in the real world, but, and it is a big but, you will probably never experience it on any large scale nor with potential dangerous consequences if those that never have gone out decide to experience the freedom of being yourself in front of complete strangers. My recommendation is that if you want to go out, plan for it, toughen up your emotional sensitive skin some, find a partner in crime and try it. You will definitely like it.

  17. #92
    GG ReineD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    Did it ever occur to anyone that the wigs and dresses and makeup might be the disguise we use to hide from ourselves?
    This is brilliant, Melissa. I agree


    ... even though you and I might assign different meanings to that statement.

    Quote Originally Posted by AllieSF View Post
    When a lot of people here talk about coming out, I think in the context of this thread, it really means going out of the house into the real world. I am out in that sense, way out. However, I still have my safe "no Allie" zone and situations that I respect. None of my friends, family nor ex-work mates know, nor, more importantly, need to know at this time.
    And thank you too, Allie, for being specific. It helps.

    I've seen too many raging battles in this forum over "out" vs. "in", when each side didn't even bother defining what "out" means. CDs would take it they were being told they should out themselves to everyone they know, while the people encouraging going out meant just going out in the mainstream even if it was far enough away from home.
    Last edited by ReineD; 03-20-2012 at 11:44 PM.
    Reine

  18. #93
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    Quote Originally Posted by Badtranny View Post
    ...but Annabelle you're making my point. What you see on the internet is only what you IMAGINE is outside your front door. There are indeed some awful people out there (Santorum anyone?) but only a select few miscreants will actually say anything to you in person. The internet is chock full of cowards and blowhards, and fakes and just because some hag compares a 5 year old little girl to a dog does not mean that she or anyone would confront you. The truth is she would likely be polite to you and then yak up a storm about it with her old biddy girlfriends later that night.
    I agree with this point, Melissa, and recently made it myself: the anti-TG crowd probably aren't as brave in face-to-face encounters as when they're safely anonymous on the net. So I'm not saying that I don't ever plan to get out. I'm just not pushing things, but rather looking at how to do it in my own way when I think the time is right.

    Best wishes, Annabelle

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