Wife's ultimatum

[sierra_g]

Many of you have misconceptions, most are because I wasn't very clear.
My SO's mom that we live with is actually a friend of her actual mother's that took the two of them in and they all lived together for a few years in the mid 90's. Her actual mom is actually coming to visit. I like her, it should be good times. The one we live with is a religious lady, but pretty cool. She offered to let us stay here when we had nowhere else to go. We are doing better now, and although things are still tight, we could leave if we wanted, but my SO wants to take care of a few bills first.

My SO does read to the girls, does take them out to play, and we have argued quite a bit and although some days it is like pulling a mule, she has started limiting her computer time a bit more, and does help out a bit more than what I seem to have perceived below. She has attempted to go to bed earlier, and we are trying to ween her off of her Ambien and onto an herbal version so she wakes up easier.

She definitely has depression issues, and I am sure some of those are caused by her feeling of deception because she didn't marry a CD, yet here I am.
She truly does hate CD. She had friends that she would make pretty for drag shows and other events and that got to her too.

Also, we are both Christian, we both go to church almost every Sunday, and although we had church in our backgrounds, we weren't going to when we first started dating. We really didn't start going until we were married and decided we wanted to raise our kids in faith. I actually was a "youth leader support" for a couple months.

Lastly, and this was my major bad. This didn't start because I came out to her through a long talk. That did happen, but not at first. My wife searched my internet history to find a site she forgot the name of while I was camping with my dad, and found a bunch of AB fetish sites, so we fought long and hard about that. We ended up experimenting with it, but she wasn't into it and really disgusted with it. I would wear her clothes when she was gone sometimes, and find dumb excuses to wear her shoes or jacket to walk the dog, but never told her about the CD at that point. I gave the AB stuff up though. We had recently moved here, and she came out of our room and saw a 'forced CD' website. We fought a lot and she tried to accept it, but couldn't. She asked a lot of questions, and I thought that it was all about the forced aspect. We tried some stuff, but we quickly realized it wasn't about being forced as much as it was about the clothes, the attitude, the want to feel and be pretty, etc. We sought out help, and went to one therapist for a while, but the therapist got weird so we stopped going. We have been trying to accommodate CD now in different degrees for over a year. While yes, we would fight about it, it has never been as bad as it is now. We are both tired, but I am afraid she is finally done. We will see.

I re-read the entire thread from beginning to end and I think that I answered all the misconceptions with that. Sorry for not being so clear before.

[MandyGG]

It is easy to leave things out and confuse the readers. We, as the writer, have it in our heads and it sounds right, but we forget that others have no idea who we are! No harm done.

Your story is so thick. I don't even know how to begin to wade through it. I understand where she is coming from. I would not support an Adult Baby fetish, nor would I support the forced CD. I have to give her a lot of credit for making it this far! It is good to hear that she is actively trying to get herself out of her depression. I wish her luck in the process.

I just don't have the answers for you now. I hope that someone can offer some advice on this, and I hope that you two get the help that you need.

[ReineD]

Sierra, you've no doubt discovered that many members in this community love to discuss other people's circumstances, and when details aren't known or are unclear, they do fill in the blanks with their best guesses. At times, I've done this as well. This is natural, but it makes any "advice-giving" hit-or-miss at best. Also, members who start threads often tend to initially not always present a fully objective account of their SOs, and instead present their circumstances in a way to favor themselves. This is also human nature, I don't blame people for doing this, but again any incomplete picture that is painted in the original post will elicit advice that is not particularly applicable to the circumstances.

You should keep this in mind, and try to do your best to describe your wife and your circumstances objectively, so that you can receive the best advice possible.

Back to your situation, I don't blame your wife for having had a hard time dealing with the more fetishistic side of your CDing, especially after having given birth to a baby a year ago (and a another child a few years before) on top of having discovered this on her own. This would cause major trust issues. Also it is not uncommon for women to experience post-partum depression and to have it last several years (it happened to me with my 3rd child). Any other issues that crop up, be they marital problems, financial issues, or gender/sexual issues in a partner will exacerbate the depression.

I'm glad that you've decided to slow down with the CDing until things in your lives settle down a bit. I also recommend you seek marital help, even if it is to learn basic relationship skills (for you both), such as communicating, listening, and compromising. All that fighting can't be healthy, not only for you, but for the kids.

[sierra_g]

This is important to you? In the midst of all this hull-a-baloo...this seemingly-unending morass...you ask us this? Why?

Just askin'....

I uploaded a profile pic taken a few weeks ago and wanted to see if anyone liked it. That was it, no reason to read into it. So, do you?

[MandyGG]

I uploaded a profile pic taken a few weeks ago and wanted to see if anyone liked it. That was it, no reason to read into it. So, do you?

Oh, boy. Sierra, no one is going to offer you any advice and feel sympathy for you, if you seem to not take this seriously. You are literally moments away from losing your wife and kids and you care if your painted eyes look good!?!?! Come on! Snap out of it! Either you are serious and need help or you are having a great laugh at our expense. If that is the case, then YAY! For me! I wasted hours worried about a family that I didn't need to.

[sierra_g]

No, that isn't it at all. I'm sorry, I didn't think of it like that. It was me moving in, so to speak. I am taking everything you all are saying very seriously. I am listening to and using your advice. I don't really know what I am doing, I guess. As I have said before, I am very thankful for all of your advice. I cannot thank any of you enough.

[Jacqueline Winona]

Sierra, these are delicate times for you- your marriage and family are a few steps away from trainwreck, so be careful, if they mean as much to you as I think they do. What do you want? Do you want your wife to dominate you, take you seriously, accept the CD even if she doesn't want to know about it, fight as hard as you to save the marriage, or do you want to say to heck with all of this, I want to dress, when I want, and nothing else will take it's place? Figure that out, then the rest will follow. You're not going to just shut your CD away, it's going to rear its pretty head when you need it or can't live wihout it. But be honest with yourself, you don't seem the type to accept the subordinate role (based on how ticked you seem to get when she doesn't do what you think she should be doing around the house) and your wife doesn't sound like she is comfortable with the dominant role. So, make up your mind on 1) what you want from your wife; 2) how important is your marriage and family, and 3) determine what your wife will accept, don't skulk around after a long-talk planning your next secret move or thinking "I'm doing this regardless of what she things" if you really care about her. She seems like she responded well when you finally put your foot down about the computer games, that could be a big hint about what she wants from you.

[sierra_g]

Janice, I am not quite looking for dominance. Not anymore. We have really been working to correct past mistakes and make it more 50/50. I would love her to accept the CD part of me and work it into our lives.
One of our biggest problems is that we are sub/sub. I guess it is better than dom/dom. Neither of us can make a decision, neither wants to lead, and the number one phrase uttered in our house seems to be "It doesn't matter, whatever you want".
I do get upset, but it is usually very silent. I have been trying to change that. Sometimes I will keep my mouth shut and let it build until I boil over and start yelling, but the receiver has no idea I was even mad at them until I explode.
It has been over a week since I last wore even panties. I am really trying to not be too feminine while we have this argument.

Last night, I finally let her read the entire thread. It was causing a lot of hostility to not let her read it and I felt that she should know what was said. We don't lie to each other and we don't hide anything from the other. Too much pain has been caused by my deceit in the past, so I am open and honest now. She was upset about a few of the posts. I had originally written and replied to this thread as if she would never read it, so I never watched out for her feelings. A stupid mistake on my part. I never wanted to hurt her, or cause a fight over this thread since I created it to get help. After she read the entire thread to this point, all 86 posts, she told me she was upset, that she would reply to it soon, and that she wanted me to know that she does truly love me and that she is still IN love with me. (YAY!) Maybe we aren't as screwed up as I had originally thought.

[Sandra]

After she read the entire thread to this point, all 86 posts, she told me she was upset, that she would reply to it soon,

So she's going to join us here? because she'll have to have her own account to be able to reply as she cannot use yours.

[sierra_g]

Yes, exactly. I wouldn't let her use mine.

[ReineD]

One of our biggest problems is that we are sub/sub. I guess it is better than dom/dom. Neither of us can make a decision, neither wants to lead, and the number one phrase uttered in our house seems to be "It doesn't matter, whatever you want".

Maybe you could both make a concerted effort to be switches. You might surprise yourselves!

[MandyGG]

I hope that she does join us here! That would do so much for you both.

[JenniferR771]

Welcome Sierra G's other half. Remember crossdressing is not a hobby that you just take up when you are bored. You are born with it. Just the same as if you were born left-handed or gay. To the two of you , accept what you cannot change.

[sierra_g]

Welcome Sierra G's other half. Remember crossdressing is not a hobby that you just take up when you are bored. You are born with it. Just the same as if you were born left-handed or gay. To the two of you , accept what you cannot change.

I definitely feel that a weak chromosomal push is one cause for it, but I also believe that a number of CD's are created from their environments. Mothers dress their boys as girls, women dress their boyfriends and husbands, maybe a traumatic event in someone's life. I love the idea of "born this way", but I don't think it is always the case.

Personally, I first got the urge to dress up when I was in Elementary School (I didn't understand those feelings or try until high school), and all my life people have told me I am acting a little "gay", so maybe I was born with it, but I don't know.

[Tara D. Rose]

Personally, I first got the urge to dress up when I was in Elementary School (I didn't understand those feelings or try until high school), and all my life people have told me I am acting a little "gay", so maybe I was born with it, but I don't know.

Oh come on, now we're back to yesteryear, so you are saying that some of your classmates thought you were a little "GAY" and so it was no surprise that you were a cross dresser, ,,,eighter of your self or of others??? So is being a cross dresser a by product of being "GAY"?????or vice versa???
I mean, after all, you are a cross dresser, you ought to and should know first off that being gay or bi does not neccessarily go hand in hand, one can be without the other and a cross dresser can be gay or bi, but to imply that some thought you were gay meant that crossdressing goes right along with it??? . Gay does not = CD,,, and CD does not = gay, and gay does not = bi, one can stand alone without the other, one does not half to go hand in hand with the other. Your statement is steriotypical at it's best. It's like saying my dad is a priest and you know, he has never molested the young boys in the congregation, WOW what a surprise.

[sierra_g]

No no, after re-reading, I can see how you misunderstood and am sorry for that. I meant feminine, but I used the words that I was called. Both kids and adults have thought I act a bit more feminine than the social stereotype of "guy" all my life. I didn't mean to lump gay/bi and CD. I was going for a fast reply and didn't re-read what I typed. My bad.

[Polly Sharp]

Hey Sierra

Hello from a long-term CD in England. I've just found this board and yours was the first story I read. It got me wanting to register as I so wanted to give a reply, even if I have had to wait to be accepted as a new member.

I hope that I can give you hope, feel free to take parts of my tale to use in your own quest to find peace with your relationship.

I've been married 3 times now. My 3rd wife knew I dresed from the start. After we got together I sat down and told her. She was willing to go along with it and even took some of my things for herself at first. Because of work being so demanding, I didn't dress much and even when I did, it was when she was working away.

Then came the day when she found my stash - by then it had grown from a bag full I had brought with me, to several boxes on top of the wardrobes and the two suitcases we kept up there. She wanted a suitcase, found it was heavy and opened it up. The checked the rest of what was up there. I got home that night to no food ready, and a sobbing wife looking at a mountain of clothing in a heap on the bedroom floor.

You bet we talked that night! I explained to her that I had dressed since I was a child. It was a part of me. I was not gay, as she accused me of being. It was not something I wanted to stop, I don't think I could.

What brought her round more was that I told her how much I loved her. That she was all I wanted, that there would only ever be one 'other woman' to worry about, and that was Polly. She actually laughed at that, with me, not at me.

I was still the same person I had always been, and always would be. I wanted her, as a man wants a woman, and I had explored the possibilities long before I met her and I wasn't wanting to have an operation or anything I was content with dressing. It wasn't a fetish thing, but a genuine need to feel comfortable with myself. To be relaxed and get rid of tension, without any sexual release being involved.

Over the next few days we talked some more. There were times when she said she didn't want it, I had to stop, but I had to convince her that it would never stop. No matter what I did, this was part of me, the person she was married to. For better, for worse.

We got round to talking about what she felt comfortable in - t-shirt and jeans, with boots! Now come on, if she can wear those on a regular basis, in public, then she was more of a cross dresser than I was!

One thing you mentioned, and in my book a big NO NO. Don't ever wear her clothing, especially without her knowing. That's just bad and gains you no respect if she finds out, and she probably already knows. They do y'know.

My (3rd) wife asked me why I wore womens clothing, I said I didn't, it's MY clothing. I have bought my own over the years. Through being more understanding with each other we now accept that I will epilate/shave my legs, in the summer months I shave or epilate my chest and as much other hair as I can, arms, neck and so on. I tried getting my wife to do my back too, but she just wasn't comfortable with that - not that she didn't want to, but she was bothered about cutting or hurting me!

My 2nd wife seemed to think that I would do most of the housework and leave her to sit and watch TV, this was on top of me having a full time job. She claimed that having the kids all day tired her out. What I found after was that she would shut them in a playroom and go out! I would get home from work, cook a meal, do the laundry, wash up, bath the kids and get them to bed and whatever else she had not done, which was virtually everything.

I think, had she known about my dressing, I would have been put in a maids outfit! She had already stopped all the marital stuff, refused point blank after our 3rd child was born. I had been for a vasectomy. Despite talking about it before the op, she then blamed me that she would have no more children.

Quite a lot of 'blame' was put my way, both in the marriage and afterwards. Just what I did to deserve such problems, I do not know. My dressing was certainly not an issue.

In your case I think your wife is putting too much on to you, and trying to make out you are a bad person. Is she perhaps telling the person you live with that she has done all the work? Are the odds being stacked against you? I don't know, but the thought entered my head.

Personally I would stand up to her more and try to regain some lost ground. It may not seem practical, with the threats you've already had, but don't let her ruin your life. You are putting a heck of a lot into the marriage and I really think she's blowing your dressing out of proportion to try and enforce her wishes and concepts of life upon you.

I have spent a lot of time trying to help fellow CD's. I was part of a very active group in my area, going out to give talks to very different groups of people, from students at university, to care workers looking after homeless children.

A lot of people are ignorant of our needs. Thinking all CD's are gay is quite common, some may be, as with any cross-section of society. It's like saying that all baseball players are gay, some may be, most are not. Thinking we do this to act cheap and gain attention, also a common mistake to make. My own requirement is more for the calming efect it has on me. I need that outlet at times.

Through going out there and meeting people, I felt that I was able to explain better just what is needed. A level of understanding that has been given to gay and lesbian people already. The sooner it is seen that we are no out to harm anyone, that this is who we are, the better.

Much love to you both, I hope you can find a solution that makes you both happy. It is silly to have anything come between a couple who have committed their lives to each other.

[April_Ligeia]

I received an ultimatum a couple of years ago from my ex-wife. Say no more.

[sierra_g]

Hello Polly,
I appreciate your wanting to join the board to try to help with my situation. I relate to some of the stuff you talk about, but I am wondering why you chose to hide your CD side from your wives. I am not really in any position to say anything, but did this deception possibly assist in the chain of events that eventually caused your divorces? If I have learned one thing from all of this, it is to be honest with your SO from day 1. Not something that should be brought up on the first date, but maybe before sex. I made that mistake with my SO because of a combination of shame, embarrassment, and it having taken place much earlier in life and I thought that part of my life was over. Boy, was I wrong, lol! If I had known that I would find the need to CD, I would've let her know before I asked her to marry me. Unfortunately, she found out because I was looking at it on the computer. If I could change something, it would've been that.
Thank you.

[Polly Sharp]

...I am wondering why you chose to hide your CD side from your wives. I am not really in any position to say anything, but did this deception possibly assist in the chain of events that eventually caused your divorces?...

Well, I learned the hard way I guess. When I got married the first time there were no computers or Internet, so finding information was very difficult. It wasn't until my first wife and myself were in the process of splitting up that I knew anything much about being Trans, apart from what I felt was right for me. When we did split she tried to make out she wanted me to dress and 'have fun' but ignored the real reasons for breaking up, which were her fault and had happened long before she had any idea. So no, it didnt contribute to the divorce.

2nd wife didn't know, apart from helping me dress for 'fancy dress' nights. She knew I liked that. Even after we had seperated she was probably more receptive to the idea than I had anticipated. But, we had kids, there wasn't time for me to do more than the occasional fancy dress night anyway. Again, I was only just picking up info through 'bulletin boards' rather than the wealth of info that is around on the Internet these days. The topic never really came up. I was too busy with my job and the kids to dress, but that all changed when I had my own place for a while.

I didn't hide it on purpose, I was scared of what may happen if I was found out. How would the topic have come up? As I said, things are more open these days. Loads of websites, even organisations that are actually aware that's it's not just a case of a guy wants to have an op to swap sex, there are other possibilities without going that far.

Both of these women took up with other guys behind my back. Nothing to do with anything I did, or did not. The only 'other woman' I had was Polly. I am not the cheating kind. I had dressed a lot more in my teens, before I got married the first time. All that had been left behind me, until things started to go wrong and I had a bit of comfort from being Polly a little.

So, with my 3rd wife I was open and honest about dressing. Things did get out of hand with the sheer amount of stuff I hoarded away, which brought on a difficult period. But we worked through it and now we're happier than we have ever been about the subject.

She has allowed me to do my own thing and I am amazed at myself for the changes it brought in me. With the first 2 I was keen to cook, clean, iron and whatever - since getting more into the femme role I've skimped on dusting, only vacumn the middle of the carpet and hardly ever cook ;-)

The big issue is that how you feel will not 'go away', no matter what your intended may say. She cannot control your feelings and you would be frustrated trying. You're right, being honest from day 1 is the way to go. Had I known back in the 1970's what I know now, things may have been different.

My first wife would not have had a 'lodger' for 12 years, who was stupid enough to pay for everything and got nothing in return. The marriage was over in the first few months, through her actions. I stayed on to help bring up 2 kids who were not even mine, but that's another story.

Again, if I knew then what I know now... I would have tried to find a woman who would help me as Polly, but back then there were no dating companies who catered for 'kinky' people. Even mens magazines hardly touched on the topic. I remember reading once about a woman who had caught her husband wearing her undies and was disgusted, the magazine replied to say that she should get a proper man instead!

The Internet has been wonderful in bringing the subject out a lot more. Despite what doubting partners may think, sites like this can help. For a start, it shows that their partner is not the only one - something I felt back in my early days. Therte is a palce to find out more, and possibly get help from other partners in the same situation. I didn't have that available.

The one other thing I did differently before taking the plunge the third time was to live with my intended for 4 years, before we got married. We both had time to find out about each other and be sure it was what we wanted before making a committment. I rushed into things with the first 2, and regretted it afterwards.

[ReineD]

Over the next few days we talked some more. There were times when she said she didn't want it, I had to stop, but I had to convince her that it would never stop. No matter what I did, this was part of me, the person she was married to.

This is worth repeating. From my experience, the least accepting wives are those whose husbands aren't clear about the CDing. These husbands may feel guilty for not having told their wives from the onset, or they may not yet fully accept themselves and are still caught up in purging cycles, but the bottom line in such marriages seems to be that the wife believes the husband "should" stop, and the husband agrees (even if he disagrees privately) because he doesn't want to upset his wife!

And so false promises are made even with the best of intentions and the husband determines to "control" the CDing somehow but every time his wife notices that he even looks at an item of clothing or he paints his toenails, or God-forbid she finds an item of clothing he has purchased, she reacts negatively because she believes that he is violating their agreement.

No matter when a wife finds out, whether it is at the beginning of a relationship, or after some years whether on her own or when her husband finally decides to tell her because he no longer feels he can keep the CDing under wraps, it is crucial that a wife be told that the CDing is simply not going away, ever, that it is a part of her husband's fundamental self. It is better to face the music head-on at the beginning, IMO, than to precariously dance around the subject for years, all the while deteriorating the relationship because each partner is operating under a different set of expectations.

And once they both come to the same basic understanding that a desire to express femininity is just as much a part of a husband's makeup as the color of his eyes, they can both work on ground rules they feel comfortable with. This can range from a wife who does not wish to participate, allowing her husband adequate time and space to CD, to a wife being actively involved. There is not "one" best way to achieve workable and satisfactory ground rules since every CDer's needs are different and every GG is different. The importance is that neither partner should resent the other for their needs.

[Polly Sharp]

Over the next few days we talked some more. There were times when she said she didn't want it, I had to stop, but I had to convince her that it would never stop. No matter what I did, this was part of me, the person she was married to. For better, for worse.

Just to try and put this into something that most SO's should recognise, it is as much a part of the person as if they were left handed - it is something they were born with and will have all their life. It may not be a physical blemish, but it is _there_ and is not something that can be talked away. That is a very important point to get over as part of the conversation.

[Di]

I have invited her to join forums with me on things like this before, and has always told me she doesn't care for one sided arguments and everyone on the forum will be automatically on my side. It isn't usually the case at all. I am normally a very selfish person. I've tried to let that go best I can.

Divorce, if it happens, is best when the children are very young. If we are headed down that road, it is best now instead of later. I just don't ever want it.

For the Gynosupremesy, I believe that women are better than men at a lot of important things, such as thinking, multi tasking, etc. We tried a wife led relationship. She wasn't comfortable with it, so we are at 50/50, but if there is a decision we are both on the fence about, she gets final decision. It works for us.

Right now, we are living with her mom. If my wife tells her mom about the CD, I will be out immediately, no questions asked. Wife can come with or go, but she would stay. Just to be safe, I always know of a place I could live, but getting the deposit and rent is the tough part. All my money goes to bills and kids.

Just to know here in the GG section not one sided.....we support the GG...her feelings and answer questions with personal things from out personal life.
End up realizing it is part of you...you are not gay. Basically we support them but they also get the full picture.

It might just be for right now the last thing she wants to deal with if there are other stresses. ( like living with mum, money and whatever else)

So if it gets to a point where she needs to vent ( not out you to her mom& having someone to get her thoughts and fears out) you can tell her about us.

[sierra_g]

Just to know here in the GG section not one sided.....we support the GG...her feelings and answer questions with personal things from out personal life.
End up realizing it is part of you...you are not gay. Basically we support them but they also get the full picture.

It might just be for right now the last thing she wants to deal with if there are other stresses. ( like living with mum, money and whatever else)

So if it gets to a point where she needs to vent ( not out you to her mom& having someone to get her thoughts and fears out) you can tell her about us.

My SO GG made an account (Mrs. G), and when she is ready, she wants to post. I am hoping it will be soon, but I am giving her whatever time she needs. If this thread happens to hit the third page, or the fifth page, it will still be resurrected so she can reply to it.

I haven't been posting on our current situation lately because I want to wait for her side to be told by her. Also because her real mom was in town for a few days. ♥

[WifeofWrenchette]

Welcome to Mrs. G. I hope you two can work things out and you both can get the help you need with counseling. You sound like you are in a very stressful situation with two small kids, money, and living with her mom. The last thing either of you needs is more stress.