Why do women dislike crossdressers?

[ReineD]

Yeah I know the idea that someone might want a friend who could help them with something that friend was good at is ridiculous! I mean nobody asks their computer-literate friends to help them with their computer, or car-savvy friends how to fix their car, or carpentry-proficient friends how to or help with building something. I mean geeze, who would do such a thing? Has the world gone crazy?

This is a good point.

When my SO asks for advice, I'm always more than ready to give it, whether it is about makeup or clothing and I do the same for GG girlfriends (a girlfriend was once determining what clothes she should bring to Goodwill, was this too tight, was that too short, etc). At various times I've also asked my SO or my GG friends if they thought a particular color suited me or was this outfit hopelessly out of style, or was my eyes shadow applied evenly on both eyes. These are specific questions and they don't take all that long to answer. And there is a goal in mind.

If my SO ever wanted me to give her a complete makeover, however, frankly I wouldn't know how to go about it. Over time I've figured out what works for me, but I have no idea what works for someone else in terms of makeup. I'd have no idea how to makeover a GG friend either. :p

But, the idea of spending a "fun" evening with another GG putting on different clothes, trying on different makeup, doing each other's nails, etc, just for the fun of it is another matter. The process is not an activity that most GGs past the teenage years engage in with other GGs, just for its own sake.

Do you see the difference?

[jsunic_1978]

I don't understand why a woman would not be romantically attracted when we are in guy mode, especially when they don't see us dressed! Just because they know they want nothing to do with us. So, women really are mean and judgmental. Yea, most GG will be good friends, but i still don't understand just because they know we do this and never seen us as a girl, they still wont like us as lovers?

[Silentpartner GG SO]

I don't understand why a woman would not be romantically attracted when we are in guy mode, especially when they don't see us dressed! Just because they know they want nothing to do with us. So, women really are mean and judgmental. Yea, most GG will be good friends, but i still don't understand just because they know we do this and never seen us as a girl, they still wont like us as lovers?

Have you actually read all the replies to this thread????

We are not mean and judgmental! ffs! you sure know how to get someones back up - I'm hardly surprised that you cant find a girlfriend if this is your attitude towards women - your statement has p*ssed me off for sure!

the truth of the matter is, a lot of women dont find the idea of a guy in a dress, forms, wig and make-up a sexual turn-on and there's little chance of getting romantically involved with a person who doesnt find you sexually attractive. Add to that a rotten personality, a bad or negative attitude and a big fat chip on your shoulder and you've got a total non-starter in the relationship stakes.

[brenne]

I don't understand why women dislike us so much. I am still single, maybe because I am just honest about what I do. I do not dress often. Just because women know about this they wont give me the time of day, Tough I do not push this on anyone that doesn't accept nor I would dress when I go on a date. Am I being honest to quickly or are people just that closed minded and nasty? any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

I don't know - some have been very supportive to me. But maybe others feel we're encroaching on their space?

[jsunic_1978]

I get out of this, if I'm just looking for a GG shopping buddy, Ill tell her. If I'm looking for a girlfriend, Ill keep it to my self. Personally, I'm just upfront anyhow so I don't have to hide. This is probably selfish, but I can't miss what I don't have? right? God bless all those for hiding their CDing from their lovers all of these years and being patient and taking the risk by telling her and these women still stand by most that have came out. Im learning to, if I offend anyone, sorry, and I cant be a people please neither. I still cant understand why a woman wont be romantically involved just because she knows and has never seen the man in women s clothes

and this is something I just do some weekends now and then once in a while and I have noticed in my experience, most women are not willing to give me the chance in which I can curve, bend this a little. I have a lot of guy friends. some of them know and don't even think twice, nor think im weird and most of them are straight! They just don't want to see me dressed and I respect that. Women however that would like more than just a shopping buddy don't give me the same benefit. I have some female FRIENDS thats all.

[STACY B]

Woman dont like CDers becuz we steal clothes from the clothes line an laundery baskets when we are young so they have a bad taste in there mouth about us from an early age . So dont blame them ,,Its our fault ,,The ones that Robbed them of there Party dress or Cheerleader outfits ,, When they were young an now they hate us for it ,,,LOL,,,, An Im one of the giulty ones so throw your stones this way ,,, SORRY ,, But I just counld'nt help it ,,I was broke an didn't have any money ,,But I have given MOST of it back ,, LOL,,,,

[jsunic_1978]

I REALLY NEEDED THAT GOOD LAUGH thanks! I stole shoes a lot and clothes to, had a lot of fun with them just because maybe I was always too shy to try to play with the girl? LOL but i think think this is why I do this besides just liking to dress.

[ReineD]

I still cant understand why a woman wont be romantically involved just because she knows and has never seen the man in women s clothes

It's because most women's first thoughts, on being told of the CDing, are "Is he gay? Does he want to become a woman? WILL he want to become a woman? Does he do this because of fetish and will I be enough for him?"

Most of us do not grow up knowing CDers, and we really know very little about it other than what we see in the popular media.

[jsunic_1978]

thanks everyone. I really need to learn how to inner act more with women, get some hobbies and things of interest to most people and not force my self. Maybe telling a girl i CD is just the same as saying lets have sex right off the bat?

[jsunic_1978]

I apologize to the GGs on here I may have offended. I really am trying to balance, educate my self more and get rid of this chip on my shoulder I cant have my cake and eat it to I guess. I just have to only tell women I only want shopping buddies with. The more friends I aqquier, maybe something will develop as They get to know me as a guy to and not push the issue and curve this some.

[Shananigans]

Wow Shan, You are a "tough sell" my friend. Not only do I have to be a cute guy but a cute girl as well. Works for me Hon.

I mean, it's true...it's kind of a tough break if you are a CD getting into a relationship with someone that is interested in all aspects of yourself sexually. You pretty much have to rock it all. You're kind of a jack-of-all-trades in the looks departments, and that takes a lot of skill. But, everyone judges everyone else physically in the looks department...especially, if it's going to be a sexual relationship. I wouldn't write someone off purely on physical attractiveness, but you really have to ask yourself if you would have gotten to know a person on That level if there wasn't an initial sexual attraction. There's no real way to know.

You kind of earn some bragging rights if you make a good looking guy AND a good looking girl AND you don't suck as a person. It gives you some right to be a little cocky (no pun intended)...but, probably a lot of people are like my SO and don't really have much of a concept of how attractive they appear.

So, I think the OP should just work it. There are tons of bi and bicurious girls out there that I know wouldn't be opposed to dating CDs. (Just had this conversation this past weekend, actually). But, you definitely got to work it. You may not realize you are playing sort of the bi card as a CD...but, you kind of are...especially, if you are looking for someone into both aspects of yourself. I think CDs can be whatever sexuality...but, ya gotta have someone somewhat into that whole thing if you're going to bring it to the bedroom. I'm sure a lot of straight girls will go there experimentally...and especially someone they are comfortable with (like their husbands)...but, right off the bat can be kind of hard to fathom. So, it's almost like your best bet is a girl that is attracted to both men and women...and, if you're trying to be both, you kind of have to work both pretty well if you are doing it on the long-term.

And, I just imagine if you are looking for someone long-term, you'd want someone pretty into it. Probably sexually. Not all CDs do...but, when you first put it out there, there is some sort of connection made for a lot of people not involved in the trans community with sexual components. It was literally the first thing that came to mind when my SO told me, just to tell you the truth. I think being bi influenced my reaction to it all. It wasn't until LATER that I actually learned more about the trans community. So, basically, it wasn't until later that I realized it was more than a sexual component. And, I think it works that way for quite a few people...when my SO went out dressed to a party, I got tons of questions about our sex life. Somehow, our friends connected the dots...and, we didn't even really have any dots drawn for them to connect...they did it all on their own, as far as I can tell.

Maybe things wills change a bit when people get more knowledgeable about trans issues. But, even then, if it's a self-identity thing...sex factors in somewhere a lot of the times...it's an important thing for a lot of people.

So, best bet for someone that wouldn't really be phased much by CDing would be a bisexual girl that is attracted to you both ways. But, there are also tons of open-minded people out there that surprise the Hell out of you...however, if I had to put my money on anything, it would be the bi girl attracted to you either way. That's just my advice...and, my "if I were in your shoes" thing. When it comes to love and long-lasting romances, everything tends to be pretty unexpected though.


Also, as far as what a few people are saying with GGs not being "fair" and not being into you romantically...NO ONE has to sleep with you. You aren't really entitled to women throwing themselves in bed with you. Maybe it's because you're a CD, maybe it's not. Either way...you aren't entitled to it. I think as women get a bit older, they get pickier. Some dude got all up on my mom's sh*t and accused her of not wanting to date him because he is bald. She quickly educated him that the real reason she wasn't into him was because he was wearing some t-shirt with a funny saying on it (which, made her think he was immature), he was a sh*tty tipper, he was boring, the entire conversation revolved around himself, and he had bad breath. I think he would have rather had her say, "Yep, it's totally because you're bald." But, in truth, his own insecurities were what HE thought she disliked...turns out she didn't like most things about him. Obviously, she was totally right about him because he accused HER of being unfair because she just wasn't interested in him in that way. He felt some sort of entitlement to women that I think a lot of men feel. So, no, dating isn't fair...life isn't fair...some people like you and some people don't. But, there are very few things in life that you are actually entitled to...and, it is almost ALWAYS, DEFINITELY NEVER someone else or their emotions towards you...you can never be entitled to such things. I think understanding That makes dating a whole lot easier and less personal when things "just don't work out." The reasons that someone "just isn't that into you" are probably things that you aren't aware of...so, unless they say it, don't assume it. And, maybe it is because you're a CD...but, the GGs in your life are still entitled to their emotions and still entitled not to date or sleep with you. The only real entitlement we have is to ourselves...and, a lot of GGs might not even have That if they had been raised somewhere else. So, you are entitled to yourself and your emotions...but, you aren't entitled to anyone else or anyone else's emotions. And, if your sense of entitlement to a couple of GGs influences your perception of HALF OF THE WORLD'S POPULATION...prepare to start working on the other half of the population, but don't be surprised if you start making threads about GMs not being into CDs. And, then, you're just kind of lonely. Take it for what it is...a few GGs not into you. Why? Who knows. But, they just aren't. Go find someone who is...problem solved.

[STACY B]

You tell um Shannon ,,, Thats right ,,,When ya in the bed room ,,Its a 3some ,,,LOL,,, but hell ya gotta sell ya self first ,,,My best advice to you is Run the man in ,,, An them Walk the girl behind ,,,LOL,,, Cuz even if the girl is bi curious shes not gonna tell you that first ,,,Thats kinda private ,,, But later if she is into that she will ahve the best of both worlds . But hell its hard enough finding someone to love an love you back . So ya better take it slow an just be yourself that will get you there sooner than jumping in her face saying ,,,IM A CROSSDRESSER !!!! What do ya think about that ???? HUH,,,,HUH,,,, I dont think I would say much about all that till you get to know her an biuld a good relationship on trust an love first ,,,Then you can wear what you want . Protect your Queen First ,, Dress like a Queen later .

[jsunic_1978]

thank you for the insight. I worked around machines my whole life and not to many women at the shop LOL I'm use to just getting a wrench and manipulating stripped bolts etc etc, u get the idea. also, I'm a recovering alcoholic. I just did my shift and drank and friendships and short term relationships just revolved from the bars. I now realize that today! WOW! The BI card, I would be interested in having fun with another CD that really looks like a girl and I do want to date a bi girl. I just want to keep straight women as friends. So, I'm flexible Out as a guy, I don't see what other people see in how I carry my self. I am told a lot I TAKE LIFE WAY TO SERIOUS. Iv been told numerous times im BORING I don't watch sports, BIG SURPRISE LOL but I do like to watch golf and i like to bowl. Most of what I watch on TV are just documentaries and si fy and the news. WOW, I REALLY NEED HELP WITH SOCIAL SKILLS. Thanks evreyone for the replies and also, Im a computer geek. ILL NEVER GET LAID LMAO

[Shananigans]

LOL,,, Cuz even if the girl is bi curious shes not gonna tell you that first ,,,Thats kinda private ,,, But later if she is into that she will ahve the best of both worlds .

Guhl, you need to bring that sh*t to the Ham. Speaking of working it and bicurious girls, we'll take it to clubs where they're a dime a dozen. By the way, "work it" was brought to you by Missy Elliott's "Work It." I think you'd jam that.

That's also good advice...go to gay bar on a Saturday night and get the DJ to blast that jam. I bet the girls into CDs would be climbing out of the wood work if you're dancing to it. Jus' sayin'

Jsunic, you're thinking about it too much with the social skills thing. If you are out having fun and meeting new, fun people...you'll be surprised at the type of people out there. You don't have to go nuts with it, but if you aren't out there meeting all types of people...you won't meet anyone new. You said you're around mostly straight girls..it might also be the setting. You aren't going to find out a whole lot of people if you're meeting up at Chili's and after work. Go somewhere new and meet new people. I'd be SHOCKED if you didn't have some fun...and, when you're having fun and not really think about it, is about the time you meet someone.

[jsunic_1978]

I have been to some gay bars and a costume bar just a handful of times. I was with people YOUR RIGHT I don't need anyone to hold my hand, just go! when I want to go! I may have more fun. BTY, would you happen to have a pair of shoes for me you don't wear no more? THEY DON'T HAVE TO FIT LOL your beautiful I know your happily married, which is why I just asked for your shoes Just kidding, but if you have a pay pal account I could just $$ with only your e mail address. PM me if you'd like to set something up

[DebbieL]

Women have a wide range of reactions, but very often the first reactions are simply the shock of dealing with the unknown. Often, if we are good at passing, we may be out and about and be in the room for several minutes before they realize that we aren't just another of the girls. In some cases, we are too pretty, too sexy, and too good to be true - which makes us more interesting, which leads to more scrutiny motivated by jealousy, envy, and competition. She's looking at the outfit, wondering where we got it, if it comes in her size, she's checking out the hair, not realizing it's a wig, trying to figure out how we got that style, and then she starts checking out the make-up, checking out eyebrows, blush, and foundation, that's usually when she starts to spot that tell-tale shadow poking through, usually under the chin. Sometimes, she will stare for several minutes, and notice the Adam's apple when we swallow. THEN comes the reaction. The longer it takes to make the discovery, the more obvious the signs of shock.

I've also noticed that economic status can also impact the reaction. A professional or an environment where there are lots of well heeled shoppers will often yield little or know audible reaction, and more often, just a polite nod and a smile. On the other hand, the minimum wage worker at the highway rest stop working at Cinnabon is likely to make loud noises, shout to her friends, and be VERY audible.

Last night I was coming home from VA to NJ. The air conditioning was out, so I changed into short shorts, and a knit shirt. My hair was short and it was too hot to wear a wig, and I didn't feel like doing make-up. I figured I'd just pass as a man who was just wearing shorts. However, at three of the rest stops, I walked in and was not even noticed and was assumed to be an older woman - until I walked into the men's room. One girl shouted out "Ma'am, that's the wrong way", and when I went further in, ignoring her, she shouted "Oh My God, that's a MAN?!?!".

At another stop, they were checking me out and one of the boys thought I was cute, then I walked into the men's room. The manager actually had to page her staff to get them back to work, and when I went to order my food, the manager made the boy who thought I was hot wait on me.

After the discovery is made, there are other questions and associations that come into play. Did you use the women's restroom? Were you one of those who peed all over the seat? Were you peeping? Were you checking them out? Did you wash your hands? Were you getting turned on in the ladies room?

Media doesn't help much either. Look at the transsexuals in the media.
The crying game - terrorist transsexual
Freebie & The Bean - assassin transsexual.
Dressed to Kill - Serial Killer Transsexual
Myra Breckenridge - Rapist Transsexual

In other movies where the transsexual theme plays - the transsexual is played by a woman.

The other kind of cross-dresser usually portrayed in the media was the "Drag Queen"
Rue Paul - and his assortment of gay men with theatrical looks and nasty mouths.
To Wong Fu - Drag Queens get stranded in a town and transform the women and cripple the men.

Glen or Glenda - an attempt to discuss transvestites - but not well done and was considered porn at the time.
Edwin Drood - Johnny Depp is good, but the portrayal of Drood as a loser and failure - and Bella Lagosi as a drunk - not a positive image.

There are many documentaries on transsexuality and transsexuals, some of which show people going through the whole process.

In the Erotic Film Industry - transsexuals are often beautiful to look at, but still have very deep voices, and yet sound whiney when they try to speak higher tones.
Often, they are featured in only one scene with a woman, and several scenes with men.

Then we have post-op transsexuals, who do a very good job of NOT making it public that they are transsexuals. There were a number of transsexual models, many of whom were very successful, as well as several dancers, but they were difficult to tell from natural women - GGs, and did their best to act like GGs.

Many women can't understand why a man would want to be a woman. They are aware of how men objectify women, how men oggle attractive women, and are rude and unpleasant to unattractive women. They have experienced discrimination in the workplace, sexual harassment, and often sexual exploitation, as youth or as young adults. They are aware of how much society judges them based on their looks rather than their skills, personality, or humor. Many working mothers feel that they have to do the work of both a man and a woman, and see a man dressing like a woman, with a lot of obvious attention on beauty and presentation, and feel that the man doesn't DESERVE to wear a dress.

Some women think that cross-dressers are like Drag Queens or female impersonators, who make a living by making humor out of femininity. To these women, the cross-dresser is just lampooning many things that are painful memories for women. Women often see this as a matter of dis-respect of women, especially beautiful women.

Women who work very hard to maintain their appearance and look beautiful often see a cross-dresser in a short skirt, heels, and looking fabulous - and are pissed that the guy looks better than they do. I've had several women tell me "I won't date you because you have better legs than I do". Getting those D-cup breast forms may make you look more like a woman, but it will also upset many of those same women, especially if you already have great legs. To them, it's not fair that you - a guy in a dress, have better legs and bigger boobs than they - women who want to be women - have been given by their creator.

Women are also acutely aware that for cross-dressers, it's just a part-time gig, and that can also be a bone of resentment. You, a beautiful cross-dresser, come in to a bar and hustle guys for free drinks and other "perks" - and then you go home and go to work tomorrow in your suit and tie. She may not even notice that you are buying your own drinks.

I have also found that when I tell a woman I'm transgendered - a girl trapped in a boy's body, they are VERY accepting, where as when I tell them I'm a cross-dresser, they are much less accepting.

Perhaps this is because many women have the desire to be men, if only for the power and privileges associated. Also, many women have been tom-boys at some point in their lives, or know women who were great friends and were tom-boys growing up.

Telling a woman you are a cross-dresser, and only want to dress up on week-ends my sound less threatening, but it tells the women you are only about the clothes and don't really have compassion or empathy for what it is to actually BE a woman.

[Silentpartner GG SO]

Women who work very hard to maintain their appearance and look beautiful often see a cross-dresser in a short skirt, heels, and looking fabulous - and are pissed that the guy looks better than they do. I've had several women tell me "I won't date you because you have better legs than I do". Getting those D-cup breast forms may make you look more like a woman, but it will also upset many of those same women, especially if you already have great legs. To them, it's not fair that you - a guy in a dress, have better legs and bigger boobs than they - women who want to be women - have been given by their creator.

Women are also acutely aware that for cross-dressers, it's just a part-time gig, and that can also be a bone of resentment. You, a beautiful cross-dresser, come in to a bar and hustle guys for free drinks and other "perks" - and then you go home and go to work tomorrow in your suit and tie. She may not even notice that you are buying your own drinks.

well I can honestly say that I've seen very few "beautiful crossdressers" and I certainly have never felt jealous, threatened or envious about any of them. I dont give a stuff if they have better legs, boobs, hair, clothes or whatever - they are still guys underneath all the false hair, make up and boobs - Personally I think you are on the totally wrong track there

and really, how many GG's do you think often see crossdressers looking fabulous and feel pissed about it? sorry but I think this is a little bit of fantasy! and if a GG said to you that they wont date you because you have better legs than her, all I can say is, if she's that shallow, would you really want to date her anyway???

[jsunic_1978]

Very Very good point! I'm dodging a lot of aspects in that area. Average looking women are just better people! they learned all their lives how to develop personality, fitting in with everyone and I don't expect them to have been accepting, but I was surprised. The average female is less likely to manipulate n hustle guys for anything, (not that they don't, but some do) Not all perfect 10 beautiful are total you know what.., B I haven't meat any nice ones. These perfect 10 perffer to date someone that comes from $$$ owns businesses, doctors lawyers. I DON'T BLAME THEM! that all comes above and beyond being a nice guy and not a jerk, that's just secondary. I have seen this a lot. I'm not meaning to sound this shallow my self, but it really is a woman's world. Half of and most can have what ever they want. Just a regular guy, good looking, How many people will offer him a drink? ALMOST ZILCH! you get the drift. It really is a woman's world. So0 many women are now supporting them selves and have their own money, THEY CAN REALLY BE AS PICKY AS THEY WANT. sorry guys, looks and personality just doesn't cut it.

i wouldn't have a problem at all with a butch! as long as were just working on the car and shopping for a mower at home depot. Just be able to get beautiful and lady like in the evening out on a date, etc

[DaphneGrey]

I have been to some gay bars and a costume bar just a handful of times. I was with people YOUR RIGHT I don't need anyone to hold my hand, just go! when I want to go! I may have more fun. BTY, would you happen to have a pair of shoes for me you don't wear no more? THEY DON'T HAVE TO FIT LOL your beautiful I know your happily married, which is why I just asked for your shoes Just kidding, but if you have a pay pal account I could just $$ with only your e mail address. PM me if you'd like to set something up

Seriously! I can't imagine why somebody wouldn't want to go out with you! Don't go asking women for their shoes,its just not cool!

But before I read this post I was thinking, perhaps you are expecting to much to quickly. I have been a member of this forum for many years and I have been out for many years. One of the things I remember feeling very lonely. I came out and wanted it all. Friends, purpose, and I wanted it now! I think when we get comfortable enough to to start telling people about ourselves. We just expect everybody to shrug their shoulders and go OK thats cool no biggie. Meeting the right person takes time. Building relationships takes time.

Maybe you are telling them to soon, or perhaps you are using to direct of an approach. I can't say for sure.

On the other hand there are women who find cross dressers attractive. I have met a couple of tranny chasers of the gg variety over the years. I don't know if they were bi curious, were attracted to the confidence it takes to present female in public, or some other reason. But they do exist. Like Shenanigans had mentioned (before you asked for her shoes! Creeepy!) perhaps you are looking in the wrong places.

[docrobbysherry]

I mean, it's true...it's kind of a tough break if you are a CD getting into a relationship with someone that is interested in all aspects of yourself sexually. You pretty much have to rock it all. You're kind of a jack-of-all-trades in the looks departments, and that takes a lot of skill. But, everyone judges everyone else physically in the looks department...especially, if it's going to be a sexual relationship. I wouldn't write someone off purely on physical attractiveness, but you really have to ask yourself if you would have gotten to know a person on That level if there wasn't an initial sexual attraction. There's no real way to know.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------Also, as far as what a few people are saying with GGs not being "fair" and not being into you romantically...NO ONE has to sleep with you. You aren't really entitled to women throwing themselves in bed with you. Maybe it's because you're a CD, maybe it's not. Either way...you aren't entitled to it. I think as women get a bit older, they get pickier. Some dude got all up on my mom's sh*t and accused her of not wanting to date him because he is bald. She quickly educated him that the real reason she wasn't into him was because he was wearing some t-shirt with a funny saying on it (which, made her think he was immature), he was a sh*tty tipper, he was boring, the entire conversation revolved around himself, and he had bad breath. I think he would have rather had her say, "Yep, it's totally because you're bald." But, in truth, his own insecurities were what HE thought she disliked...turns out she didn't like most things about him. Obviously, she was totally right about him because he accused HER of being unfair because she just wasn't interested in him in that way. He felt some sort of entitlement to women that I think a lot of men feel. So, no, dating isn't fair...life isn't fair...some people like you and some people don't. But, there are very few things in life that you are actually entitled to...and, it is almost ALWAYS, DEFINITELY NEVER someone else or their emotions towards you...you can never be entitled to such things. I think understanding That makes dating a whole lot easier and less personal when things "just don't work out." The reasons that someone "just isn't that into you" are probably things that you aren't aware of...so, unless they say it, don't assume it. ------------------------------------------------------------

Your expressive post brings to mind a couple of important questions, Shana.

Would your mom date a CD?

And, what state does she live in?:D

[jsunic_1978]

Seriously! I can't imagine why somebody wouldn't want to go out with you! Don't go asking women for their shoes,its just not cool!

But before I read this post I was thinking, perhaps you are expecting to much to quickly. I have been a member of this forum for many years and I have been out for many years. One of the things I remember feeling very lonely. I came out and wanted it all. Friends, a sex life, purpose, and I wanted it now! I think when we get comfortable enough to to start telling people about ourselves. We just expect everybody to shrug their shoulders and go OK thats cool no biggie. Meeting the right person takes time. Building relationships takes time.

Maybe you are telling them to soon, or perhaps you are using to direct of an approach. I can't say for sure.

On the other hand there are women who find cross dressers attractive. I have met a couple of tranny chasers of the gg variety over the years. I don't know if they were bi curious, were attracted to the confidence it takes to present female in public, or some other reason. But they do exist. Like Shenanigans had mentioned (before you asked for her shoes! Creeepy!) perhaps you are looking in the wrong places.

Ok, lets see if I replied correctly. I am on here to to figure out why I do what I do as well as asking for some advice. I want to start listening to everything. Thanks everyone for the posts. Maybe being still single, Itll be best to just get a room and hit some clubs now n then and keep ot to a mim? I just recently came out and maybe Ill slow it down for sure. This is 2012 Unbelievable this is still all brand new to most people.

[DaphneGrey]

If what you are doing isn't working out you might try changing.

Most of my friends today are people I met and developed relationships with as a woman. I had spent a lot of time in bars and shopping etc.. That was well and good for being out. But soon after I began feeling very lonely. I had posted about it asking for advice. ReineD suggested that I do some volunteering as Daphne.

I took her advice and as usual she was right. I volunteered at lgbt center and started meeting people. I joined a progressive church in Brooklyn etc... When I got away from the bar and club scene and spent that time with people I began to see over and over again, friendships began to form.

So you might try taking in a lecture series at a museum, perhaps an art class or something like that.

You had mentioned that you don't know why you do what you do. Well neither do I, but before I was able share Daphne on a deep and true meaningful level. I had to find out who she was and is. That takes time spent as your girl self interacting with other people.

And as others have said loose the chip on your shoulder. What is simply is. I am trans I didn't ask for it, I didn't want it, and fought like hell against it. In many ways it is a real lousy hand to be dealt. I can't be mad if women don't find me attractive, I can't hate teenagers who point and laugh. because if I let all of that get to me, I wouldn't have been able to make friends of any kind in the first place.

I can come across as bitchy and judgmental, if I do I am sorry, but I wanted to add that I get why you are bitter and lonely, I have been there and I understand. It is not an easy place to be. I also think you are pretty courageous and open and honest. I am not judging you, just offering some ideas, things that have worked for me.

[Krististeph]

I don't understand why women dislike us so much. I am still single, maybe because I am just honest about what I do. I do not dress often. Just because women know about this they wont give me the time of day, Tough I do not push this on anyone that doesn't accept nor I would dress when I go on a date. Am I being honest to quickly or are people just that closed minded and nasty? any feedback would be greatly appreciated. Thank you

One could argue that we represent a competition. Both to their ability to attract a male, or in our attention to detain in things feminine.

One of the few co-workers i ever came out to, told me she was pissed off whenever i knew something she didn't about clothes or sizes. Mary was a 'right trooper' though- she'd wear wonderfuly feminine stuff to our company outings (lake cruises, etc.) but she'd never hesitate to jump on the motorcycle with me for a quick ride, (not sitting side saddle either, but safely pulling her skirt up a bit to straddle the seat). She was savvy enough to know that despite the fact i ultimately wanted to look prettier than her, i was not real competition, and in fact i did my best to steer a number of decent guys to her... If i had a little sister, Mary would have been perfect.

Sally, on the other hand was a debutante in everything but the dress... but I was first to welcome her when she was hired, (the rest of the people acted like idiot standoffish fools) and our friendship waned as she was more socially accepted.

She left work after only two years, I saw her 6 months later on the street by my apt. we stopped in and had a number of drinks- she was separating from the guy she left the company for (to be a mom and all the surburban trappings). although i never liked her husband, i really felt bad for her. She asked if i was gay, told her no, then she asked if i was transexual. I blushed clear up to the top on my head. Ordered a round for the bar. told her she was the penultimate of class and style for me... he really got off on it, evidently.

Nothing came of the relationship- but we saw each other twice after that at random- she acted like a long lost sister- and so did I.

There are some really cool ladies out there, they should be supported disproportionally when we find them.

the rest of them? live and let live, if possible.

One thing is for certain - if they have a problem with us (CDs) than they have the bigger problem.

Chicks who do not know how to act around Cds or gays, they are morally stunted, regardless of religion or politics.

[jsunic_1978]

If what you are doing isn't working out you might try changing.

Most of my friends today are people I met and developed relationships with as a woman. I had spent a lot of time in bars and shopping etc.. That was well and good for being out. But soon after I began feeling very lonely. I had posted about it asking for advice. ReineD suggested that I do some volunteering as Daphne.

I took her advice and as usual she was right. I volunteered at lgbt center and started meeting people. I joined a progressive church in Brooklyn etc... When I got away from the bar and club scene and spent that time with people I began to see over and over again, friendships began to form.

So you might try taking in a lecture series at a museum, perhaps an art class or something like that.

You had mentioned that you don't know why you do what you do. Well neither do I, but before I was able share Daphne on a deep and true meaningful level. I had to find out who she was and is. That takes time spent as your girl self interacting with other people.

And as others have said loose the chip on your shoulder. What is simply is. I am trans I didn't ask for it, I didn't want it, and fought like hell against it. In many ways it is a real lousy hand to be dealt. I can't be mad if women don't find me attractive, I can't hate teenagers who point and laugh. because if I let all of that get to me, I wouldn't have been able to make friends of any kind in the first place.

I can come across as bitchy and judgmental, if I do I am sorry, but I wanted to add that I get why you are bitter and lonely, I have been there and I understand. It is not an easy place to be. I also think you are pretty courageous and open and honest. I am not judging you, just offering some ideas, things that have worked for me.

Thank you so much Dafnie your pretty I will take your advice. I never knew GLBT had volunteer stuff. I am sure we will meet bi women at some point. I need to really work on friendships, I understand that. People will like me a lot better ounce I get rid of that chip. I'm starting to like my self more and I am open and honest, so what? What you see is what you get. No surprises, and most women will not know what a good guy they have passed up. for the most part, I am a decent person. I just get frustrated. I cannot let people get to me nor be bitter just because people write me off. You would think women would embrace us. Most of us are not the typical jerk. Thats not my problem if most women prefer that. women are attracted to popularity and the idea that a man can get ANY woman he wants. This is why most women are attracted those guys, figuring shell be the one, but shell just be the next bus. Thats not my problem and Im learning how to let go. Well, I'm trying to. A lot of men do not mind tom boys as long as the women isn't a guy in the bedroom. It would be nice if most women would just think the same way, but they don't. Thats OK. Also, I CANNOT FIGURE OUT THE WOMEN THAT TURN LESBIAN AND BI, WOULD THEY DATE ME, A CROSS DRESSER WHILE IM JEN, NO! THEY JUST WANT GG WOMEN they don't go for nice guys, just other women.

[DebbieL]

well I can honestly say that I've seen very few "beautiful crossdressers" and I certainly have never felt jealous, threatened or envious about any of them. I dont give a stuff if they have better legs, boobs, hair, clothes or whatever - they are still guys underneath all the false hair, make up and boobs - Personally I think you are on the totally wrong track there

and really, how many GG's do you think often see crossdressers looking fabulous and feel pissed about it? sorry but I think this is a little bit of fantasy! and if a GG said to you that they wont date you because you have better legs than her, all I can say is, if she's that shallow, would you really want to date her anyway???

Back in 1990-1992, I was seriously considering transition, and was dressing and acting like a girl from the minute I got home from work until I got dressed to go to work the next morning, and all day on week-ends and evenings. I got to the point where I could pass pretty well, and often went to parties and dances where I often met up with many women. I was also recently divorced. I did have a woman friend who was living with me, and supporting me in transition. She actually sought me out.

I have had a wide variety of reactions from hundreds of women, ranging from women who wanted to take me home and make me their live-in maid and slave, to women who wanted to take me behind the bar and get me "fixed" (cut my balls off) where nobody would notice. Granted, the latter was a lesbian bar, and the women who wanted to do the castration were worried that I would be appealing to their bi-sexual girl-friends, which was often true.

In 1992, my ex-wife told me that if I didn't stop the transition process, she would push for court supervised visitation, and showed me a signed letter from the school social worker stating this recommendation, so I quit. I still dressed and went out to many places as both Rex and Debbie, and got a lot more feedback. Many women who were bisexual were very interested in meeting me, but lost interest when they found out that I had had a vasectomy. It turned out to be a good thing I did, because one woman did try to have unprotected sex with me after she learned she was pregnant, and lost interest ten seconds after she found out that I was "fixed".

Since many of these women where members of 12 step fellowships, where it's not uncommon to get a lot of honesty, I would suggest that some of the observations were probably more honest than what I might have gotten if I had handed out sheets of paper and conducted a survey.

For me, I found it interesting to observe the MANY DIFFERENT REACTIONS of MANY DIFFERENT WOMEN, and begin to sort those reactions against the types. Most of the different patterns are patterns I have observed personally in observations of about 2,000 women in Colorado Springs, Denver, Kingston NY, Princeton NJ, and New York City.

What varied by location was the degree of reaction. For example, in Colorado Springs, a more conservative city (Focus on the Family shut down all of the gay and lesbian bars shortly after I left), the negative reactions were very intense and very real, with real danger. In several cases, I was protected by people who learned of the danger and wanted to protect me because they knew me. At the same time, women who were bisexual were very reluctant to express interest and would tell me privately that they were afraid that if it didn't work out with me they wouldn't be accepted by the Lesbian community. They would be labeled "Ding Dings" - Lesbian slur for someone who bounces between men and women like a ball in a pinball machine.

In Denver, which has a very large Gay and Lesbian community, but not much of a bisexual or transgender community, there were more mixed reactions. Some women found me very attractive and wanted to get to know me better, especially when they got to know both Debbie and Rex. Many even liked Debbie better. Even though I only had sex with a few of them (I had a bisexual girl-friend who liked threesomes with other girls who were lesbians), I became friends with many of them, and even went to women's meetings with many of them.

In NYC, however, I would have women who barely knew me invite me for coffee, want to get to know me better, and even declare a degree of interest. They would tell me that they were bisexual and were very interested in knowing if I could be open to both straight and lesbian sex. Often, they would lose interest when they found out that I couldn't have children, but there were a few who turned into great relationships and loved me as a lover. My "one night stands" usually lasted at least 3 months.

In Kingston NY, reactions were all over the map. Many of the women became good friends and we supported each other in times of illness and hardship. They often spoke freely about their initial reactions to me, and how their views changed over time. At first, they thought I was a drag queen, just making fun of women. Later, they realized that I wanted to be a woman, and they realized that I did understand the difficulties they had experienced. We often had many common experiences, including being raped, being sexually harassed, being groped in public, being ogled, having men make lewd remarks, and having men loudly and verbally assault us for being too fat, too old, or too "sexy" (assuming we were hookers).

The women were also impressed by the way I handled these situations, which did not involve violence, humiliation, or anger, but rather, a sense of humor and compassion for what the men were experiencing. They were most impressed by how I reacted when I got clocked. They would realize I was a guy, and I would make the room come alive by just being totally authentic and verbalizing many of their concerns. Something like "Very good, you figured out that I'm really a guy. Don't worry, you're not gay, but I'm a lesbian, so you probably shouldn't get too interested, but you were attracted to what you thought was all woman. No it doesn't take balls to be a girl, just the opposite, but it does take COURAGE to wear an outfit like this, whether you are a man OR a WOMAN!". Then would come the questions, often dozens of them in just a few minutes, which I would answer as honestly as I could.

How long have you been doing this? - Since I was six, I have wanted to be a girl since I was 2.
Are you gay - Yes I'm a lesbian? - I'm attracted to girls and prefer to make love as a woman. This includes toys, humping, oral, and manual stimulation - my partners are usually bisexual.
How do you hide your junk? - I wear tight panties. My penis is very small, and the testes go up into pockets inside. When I'm properly packed - you can't find anything.
Do you tuck? - No I'm not long enough to tuck.
Do you use the ladies room? - yes, but only to pee and only sitting down.
Do you want the sex change? - yes - but it's very expensive, and I would have to give up ever seeing my kids, but I'd still have to pay child support.
You have children? - yes - a son and a daughter. My miracle babies - my son is 3 years older than my daughter (give ages). My son was conceived while I was dressed in a corset and stockings, and I was tied spread-eagle to the bed. My wife threw the condom in the trash, but I was gagged so I couldn't protest. I turned out to be a great experience, with the wonderful result of a new baby boy. That was the only time I could have possibly conceived him.
You were married? - yes, for 9 years - my wife decided she didn't want to be a lesbian anymore.
Are you single? - honest statement of actual situation
How long does it take you to get dressed? - anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours depending on what I want to do and where I want to go. Two hours is the full spa treatment.
Does your employer know? - Yes, so does the federal government, and the states of Colorado, New Jersey, and New York.
Are you transsexual? - Yes, I feel that my insides are girl, but since I don't want to deal with the consequences of transition - I simply state that I'm transgendered - wider range.
How long have you been dressing? - Since I was about six, a few decades. As often as I can.
Did you parents know? - They knew. My mom didn't want me stealing and/or soiling her clothes, and dad hoped I'd grow out of it.
Do your kids know? - Yes, I told my son when he was 10, his mother tried to tell him, hoping that he would hate me. Instead, he's very accepting, and so is my daughter.
Are you a pervert? - I have my kinks, I'm a switch, and particularly enjoy being submissive, but I also know how to give pleasure to another submissive. I love to dress up for sex too.
Do you have intercourse? - I used to, but in the last 7 years, I haven't wanted it or needed it. There are so many other things my wife and I would rather do.
Have you ever done it with a man? - I've given hand jobs and a blow job, but I didn't really enjoy it that much - I almost threw up.
Have you ever done a 3 way? - many times, with 2 other girls, and a few times with man and a woman.
Do you have sex as a man? - Very rarely - I have a great deal of difficulty having an orgasm in normal coitus. Some of my lovers have really liked that.
Are you a Christian? - Yes, I grew up United Presbyterian, in the "Liberation Theology" movement of the 1960s and 1970s.
Don't you think it's a sin? - No - Leviticus refers to a man violently raping younger boy. In battle, all of the males were killed, women who had obviously had babies and had stretch marks were also killed immediately, the rest were violently raped. Later, women captives would have their heads shaved, live in the house with the man for a few weeks, and then he would rape her. If she gave him pleasure and seemed to enjoy it, she would be like a wife (a Concubine), if she did not please him, he would have to set her free. He could not keep her as a slave.

Doesn't the Bible forbid men dressing as women? - Again, this applied to battle conditions. Often, to save her son's life, a mother would dress him like a girl, hoping that her son would live long enough to escape, get help, or avenge the deaths of her family. It wasn't ONLY the boys in dresses that were to be killed, it was ALL of the boys, dressed or not. Today, our wars are more "Civilized", we use carpet bombing and cluster bombs to kill men, women, children, even babies, without ever seeing their faces.

What about when Paul says got hates the sodomite? - In Hebrew or Aramaic, that term would have referred to a rapist, one who violently forces non-consensual sex on a boy or a girl who is unable to resist. Such a rapist produces many victims, the man or woman, their spouse, their children, and their children's spouses.

I'm just willing to take on all questions and answer them as honestly as I can. My answers are well thought out, and even though I may have answered the same questions hundreds of times, but each time I realized that this may be the first time they have ever dared to ask such questions and are genuinely interested in the answers.

There have been times when I've been out at a Denny's or a Diner after an event, a meeting, or a party, and spent hours answering question after question. I share as honestly and openly as I can. Often, they are fascinated by the details of my sex life, or the drama of the marriage, or even some of the hardships. Often, they will begin to open up and share common experiences, and common hardships, and I see people deal with issues that have plagued them for decades and become free.

I don't try to gloss over the hardships, and I don't try to minimize the pleasures and joys. When I'm done, I almost always have a new set of friends, and the next time I show up at an event, or a meeting, they are very friendly, very supportive, and very accepting. They realize that this is very much a part of who I am.

Many of those who get to know me better see that I'm much happier when I'm Debbie, that I'm more fun, more organized, more compassionate, more open, more honest, and more authentic. They begin to see that Rex is always hiding behind a mask, trying to protect the facade, shy, a loner, and way too full of factoids, useless information, intellectual thought, and just plain "Nerdyness". There have even been times when I have been invited to events, but only as Debbie. I have been asked to speak in front of hundreds of people - as Debbie, I have been asked on dates by women, but to come as Debbie.

This post addresses the question more deeply. Women don't like or dislike cross-dressers. They like honesty, sincerity, authenticity, compassion for others, respect for others, and a good sense of humor. They DON'T like deception, evasiveness, dishonesty, defensiveness, whining or complaining, and going "macho" while in a dress. There are thousands of questions they want to ask, but if you start going macho, defensive, and hostile, then they will probably just ignore you, or even get defensive and hostile themselves.