Same old question WHY

[ReluctantDebutant]

This topic would have more crediblity if the MtF CD community would wear womans clothing sans the wigs, makeup, breastforms, and other accessories or the woman wearing "mens clothing" would put on fake beards, bind their breast and put a sock down their pants. But that isn't the case. No CDers are trying to look like a woman while a woman is still being her feminine self even though she may wear what is traditionally men's styles. It doesn't matter it the pants and shirt she wears was cut for a man or cut for a woman she is not trying to pass as a man.

There are very few woman who do try to look like men. They are know as Drag Kings and I was half surprised not to see a sister message board here for them. I would venture to say if you were to talk to FtM CDer they would tell you they have as much difficulty as us

[psion128]

I've seen plenty of guys wear capris but then again its acceptable in Asian culture(fashion wise) for the men to wear capris. Though its not often, its common enough that no one pokes fun at them or anything crazy. Look at the fashions in Japan and you will see what I'm saying. Its just that Americans have this stiff rigid pov that isn't as flexible. This whack ass double standard is annoying but its there until society as a whole doesn't see it strange for a guy to dress that way.

"when a man dresses in women clothing he is attempting to present as a woman,fool people into thinking he is a female.

when a woman wears pants, and unisex clothing she is not trying to fool people into thinking she is a man. There in lies the difference, big difference."

And I would do the same thin as women in this instance but there are no clothes that are "feminine" in the stores. Therefore, we are stuck getting women's clothes as the similar substitute. I know some are here to try to "pass" but I'm not exactly trying to "pass". I just want it to be acceptable for me to go out in public as is but the currently the culture in the U.S. doesn't readily accept that. There are clothes that are unisex but they are limited in styles.

[Jamie001]

The reason is because when a man dresses in women's clothing, most of the time he is attempting to pass as a woman. On the other hand when a woman dresses in men's clothing, in most cases she is not attempting to pass as as man. I wear women's clothing cosmetics, and other items but do not attempt to pass as a woman. Therefore I am very much like the woman the wears men's clothing without attempting to pass. I believe that society has an easier time accepting gender queer folks like myself because we don't attempt to pass as a woman. I am just a guy that wears women's clothing because I have a strong feminine component to my personality.

[busker]

I was going to post this picture and start a new thread but this is as good a time as any to slip it in . Just imagine if this picture was showing a guy in a dress, with the caption modeled after women's clothing but cut for men!

[NathalieX66]

Because we're not wearing men's clothes. We're wearing women's clothes.

Bzzzzzzzzzt. Wrong answer.
I cannot tell you how many restaurants I've been to where the waitress wears tuxedos and bow ties. It's pretty mainstream, and meant to be gender neutral.

[Jenniferathome]

Hasn't this topic been debated (and shot down) enough? Women don't wear men's clothes! Women wear women's pants, shirts and jackets. It's not even remotely close to what we do as crossdressers. Come on, let this argument die, please.

I cannot tell you how many restaurants I've been to where the waitress wears tuxedos and bow ties.

Sorry, bad example. You are referring to a "costume" not a person's own intent to crossdress.

[Lorileah]

If you don't like the way the world is, then BE the change. I'm doing my part, what are you doing?

I am having cookies and milk. :D

when a man dresses in women clothing he is attempting to present as a woman,fool people into thinking he is a female.

the one wearing women's clothing is the fool them. there are very few here who will ever fool anyone. I don't believe the intent of most the members here is to pull a fast one but more that they like the look or the feel. Maybe they just feel better?

Sorry, bad example. You are referring to a "costume" not a person's own intent to crossdress.

OK, then we will just go with some women wear men's clothing on a daily basis. The shirts the UPS drivers wear (oh then it would be a costume since that is the required outfit for the drivers). the shirts the police officers and EMT's wear. How about he store clerks who wear a man's shirt? Cowgirls( pretending to be cowboys maybe. None of those are "costumes (they are not performing...they are working in an outfit)

The reason is because when a man dresses in women's clothing, most of the time he is attempting to pass as a woman. On the other hand when a woman dresses in men's clothing, in most cases she is not attempting to pass as as man. I wear women's clothing cosmetics, and other items but do not attempt to pass as a woman. Therefore I am very much like the woman the wears men's clothing without attempting to pass.

And thus you negated your own argument


this will never be settled because everyone has their own reason. And why does it matter. They are clothes. Other than the fact that some stores decide to label them as men's women's whatever. No where is it written in stone that an article is destined and exclusive for a male or female (not even bras because some men NEED them). We are not play acting (some may be but most not) we are not trying to fool anyone. we are not trying to make women jealous. we are not making a statement because women have taken away our playground.

The fact is that someone somewhere decided that somethings were not the purvey of someone else. It is arbitrary, nothing more nothing less. Most articles of women's clothing are designed totally for looks and not function. Women dress when they need to suit the function of the job or hobby or whatever they are doing. As to makeup and wigs, why do they have to be exclusive to women? They don't. It is another arbitrary rule that when you are herding cattle is probably not practical. But those things are things taht are made for the wearer to feel good about themselves.

All this Women can but we can't is straight horse hockey. Women wear what they wear because they decided that they were not going to slaves to what some moron somewhere decided they should wear.

So now get over it, wear what you want, do what you like as long as it doesn't interfere with the ability of another person to live a happy life. Why can't "we" wear dresses? Because in general men don't have the cahones to do something that their pal and friends would call them on. In other words they are wimps.

now who wants a cookie?

[max]

Because in general men don't have the cahones to do something that their pal and friends would call them on. In other words they are wimps.

You going to start cutting them checks when they lose their job because of what they were wearing? No? Then don't call them wimps tough guy.

[Stephanie47]

The females in my family who have worn men's clothing have not tried to pass themselves off as males. It has been like that for eons. Even if you point to the ornate men's attire of the aristocratic life of the 17th and 18th century, the men were not trying to pass themselves off as women.If I and others are going to argue it's for comfort, bright colors, the feel of fabric, why the heck do I like to wear a bra. I have nothing to pack into them. If I like the nylon fabric why don't I just wear men's nylon briefs with a fly? Why do I want to wear ladies' pink lacy panties? If Stephanie's twin brother tried to dress her in men's nylon panties and run around without a bra, she would rebel. It's the woman within and not a man wearing men's clothing.

[noeleena]

Hi,

Have you forgoten the Flower power age in the 60's to 70's , women wore pants is the 1800's & before that.they had another name bloomers. women wore pants in the 2 nd world war why. were they trying to be men .or masculine ...no...they were conscriped or land girls thier clothes were designed cut made & sewn to fit the female body not a mans cut or shape,

You dont see women in mens shops buying men clothes for them selfs & wearing them down the road. iv yet to see from our membership of some 800 women do that.

The only ones i know of are a few hard core lesbain who are butch ,

Now if they . very few in mens clothes doing the gardning or painting or farm work. we have our own clothes for that. or don our overall's, im looking at getting some lovely pink overalls, i can i am a woman you know,........

Iv asked this ? before & no answers those here who are men will you wear our clothes & go down the streets malls shoping centres & the like with out breast forms no make up no wigs. just the clothes & shoes.no earings nothing other than just tops skirts or dress's .

Id say there are 4 i know of that do yet they are not...... TRYING...... to be women. oh & two i know with beards.

...noeleena...

[Badtranny]

You going to start cutting them checks when they lose their job because of what they were wearing? No? Then don't call them wimps tough guy.

tough guy?

Let's see, Lori was indeed born a guy and she spends much of her life that way, but is she tough? Well, she's tough enough to live her own life rather than sulk in a closet about how unfair the world is.

Yeah I suppose you could call her a tough guy, but she would probably prefer to be called something different.

The fact is Max that big strong men who use the excuse that they will get fired if they come out to their friends, are not near as tough as they would have you believe. You want strength? Watch a 50 year old man transition. Now THAT'S a tough guy.

[ReluctantDebutant]

Clothes we wear were not decided by some arbitrary counsel long long ago. Their forms followed function unique to the sexes that wore them. Over time these forms would change in style but always dictated by what would be found most alluring to the opposite sex. Since we human beings are mammals and not birds it is not us the males who get to strut our feathers around like peacocks it is the women of our species who have to do the alluring.

It is perhaps because of this they got the more versatility in wardrobe. Consider them like the lucky *******s who have AB type blood. You know the type that can received blood donations from anyone else but can't give blood unless it's to another AB type person. All these women running around with their own clothes able to steal our clothes while we just can't seem to where their's.

Well it's been stated before but it needs to be stated again, women in men's clothes can still retain their femininity. While a man in women's clothes cannot retain his masculinity. If anyone thinks this statement is false, do as noeleena has suggested and just try walk around in women's clothing without makeup, wigs, breast forms, and other accessories. The goal of cross-dressing is to try to look as feminine as possible. This is the stark difference between male to female cross-dressing and women just wearing men's clothing.

[busker]

I have yet to see women wearing mens clothing. Women wear clothing designed for women. Their pants are cut different at the waist, hips, and crotch and the lengths are different. Tops are darted in many cases, etc. Who said women must dress in dresses and high heels? Not women, particularly when society decided they needed two cars, a cottage, crap for the kids, etc., and they needed it now so off to work went mommy. Step back in time when 'large' was sexy and the 'in' thing for women? If you want to blame someone because men do not wear styles that resemble womens clothing, blame men.

I have read numerous times that about 10% of mens jeans are sold to women, and my lady friend recently bought a pairs of mens jeans because they "fit" better. Women's clothing is not quite the sew job that it used to be. A lot of blouses and tops are just tubes with arm holes. Or stretch stuff. Expensive clothing may be better tailored, but there is a lot of quick and dirty clothing on the market.

[Annaliese2010]

"Why is it that women can go around and dress in mens clothes but if a man is seen in a dress, skirt, or a nice shirt he must be gay?"

It's because since time immemorial women have ruled the world & always will. And depending on the individual woman, where she may or may not have some tolerance in this regard, the vast majority of women nevertheless prefer men to be Men; There when she needs or wants him for companionship or intimacy, her lover not her rival.

It's evolutionary by origin. Comes with the territory. Now...because men, on a primal level are stronger than women & yet need women more than women need men, she'll do what she wants & always get her way. Simple as that. No use arguing or complaining. The rules are unalterable.

I assure you, TG or otherwise, us guys (girlz or whatever) are truly blind to the power a woman wields. For all intents & purposes we are controlled, 10 steps behind, clueless. It's true. I'm not complaining just stating a Fact.

But dont let that spoil your summer fun! Attachment 184602

[Clorissa]

Women wearing very casual clothes as the norm makes it easier for me to try to blend in 24/7. I wear the same things that they do to be comfortable. Mostly jeans and a short sleeved shirt. My wife and her friends mostly wear the same thing, jeans and a casual top.

But I wear my own long hair in a feminine hairstyle, layered at the salon. The GGs in my life wear shoulder length hair, similar to mine. But my Adams Apple is just a dead give away. But with all of us wearing jeans at a restaurant, farmers market, or horseback riding, I feel I blend in better compared to wearing dresses or formal clothing. .Especially from the back, my long hair draped over my shoulders looks as feminine as theirs.

The Adams Apple and veins in my forearms are a hint otherwise. Looking from the front, hearing the phrase addressed to me: “And what will you order, Sir?” Still masculine anyway to the agreement of the GGs there. But the casual clothes do not tell others that I insist I am a crossdresser. Just have long hair styled similarly. Wearing the same casual clothes.

[heatherdress]

When some women wear men's clothes, they are frequently given unflattering and undeserved names or titles. It's not just simply a double standard. Some people are narrow-minded, prejudiced, insecure assholes who sneer, snicker, stare and call ma man in female attire gay or women in male attire dykes. Who cares what assholes think?

[NathalieX66]

To the OP.

Answer: because society is sexist. I'm talking both men & women.

People are idealistic, and it goes from there. That's the way it is.

I strongly feel that the tide is turning....but not without a few good battles along the way.

I was at a very crowded mainstream restaurant with lots of kids, in a floral dress last week, and I hardly got a look, and was treated great by the waitress. Of course, they kept trying to push frozen margheritas on me for obvious reasons.

Bottom line is.....you want your place in society? FIGHT FOR IT. :ap:....live it and find out for yourself.
Don't sit at home behind a computer, and complain.

[BLUE ORCHID]

H Amanda, Don't hold your breath waiting for that to change anytime soon.