I know Varonica, I’m quite bright actually. I started banging my head anyway.Originally Posted by VeronicaMoonlit
I know Varonica, I’m quite bright actually. I started banging my head anyway.
Veronica, post 71 has got to be the title holder for longest post on CD.com. You even out did me
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
This thread is a record for me too. I usually don't have the patience to even skim read all the posts in a long thread. Must have too much time on my hands.Veronica, post 71 has got to be the title holder for longest post on CD.com. You even out did me
[SIZE="2"]Too bad I can’t see it. This is one of those threads where half the participants are being ignored by yours truly for one reason or another, mainly because it’s the same old “I’m miserable, and I hate you for being so happy” diatribe. Live and let live, I say. You keep wallowing in misery, and I’ll try to enjoy my crossdressing as best I can, under the circumstances that describe my world...
Dearest Lorileah - don’t you think that I KNOW the difference between a crossdresser, a transgendered person and a transsexual? I’ve been here a while now, discussing the same old topics over and over – maybe you’ve noticed me. This section is titled “Male to Female crossdressing,” which, I assume, attracts every male by birth who has ever chosen to wear women’s clothing, for whatever reason. I don’t know what the percentage is, and I don’t care, but there are obviously lots of males who IDENTIFY as males yet crossdress, and some of them actually write about their happy experiences. In this context, on a discussion forum for crossdressers, in a section dedicated to MtF crossdressing, it strikes me as being patently unfair to have TG and TS individuals criticizing what we enjoy doing. I don’t know what the author of the OP’s “orientation” is, and I don’t care – she’s sniping at her peers in an attempt to insert shame into the equation. I don’t see how this can be helpful, unless she is actively seeking to separate the wheat from the chaff, at least in her own confused mind, and feel like she’s accomplishing something good...
And, in doing so, she is pointing out that certain MtF crossdressers live in shame, and the latter have to start asserting themselves, the sooner the better. What support! What community! What a sense of belonging I feel whenever I log on to this site, and then peruse this section, where the TG’s are going to tell you what you’re doing wrong! I’ll tell you, if I was a newbie, trying my best to get in a little crossdressing now and then, I would log off and forget the whole idea once I came in contact with those who are obviously WAY superior to me. It ain’t fair. Certain people on this sight are NOT like me, not one little bit, but that doesn’t prevent them from jabbing me with a pointed stick from time to time. They even check up on me, perhaps to see if they’ve chased me away yet (I can see who visits my profile page, you know). Yup, it’s the same old batch of miserable bitches who just can’t stand it when someone is enjoying himself via crossdressing...
May I offer a suggestion? How about keeping your thoughts to yourself, unless they are meant to offer SUPPORT to all MtF crossdressers? Support, in this case, does not mean putting down people like me, who are simply crossdressing for pleasure – we exist, and we have a right to exist, and we also have a right to point out when we are being wronged by people who should know better. If this is what the “community” is like, it’s much better to be outside of it, if you ask me...
I keep thinking of an analogy, but few may understand it. I’m a professional artist of some repute, definitely not an amateur. In other words, I have a lot of expertise. I’ve been an artist ever since I was a young boy; in fact I just naturally became one. This is a little like knowing you’re transgendered since an early age, but bear with me. Let’s say I go on a discussion forum for artists, the majority of them amateurs, and there are lots of photos of amateur paintings with glaring mistakes, yet the artist is hoping for some encouragement. Granted, being an artist doesn’t carry the same stigma that being a MtF crossdresser does (especially in this place and time), but artists can sometimes be considered perverts by people who are bereft of sensibilities. In this instance, how WELCOME do you feel my acidic, critical comments would be, meant to either derail the amateur or point out that they need to start thinking seriously about what they’re doing? “Get out and paint before a live model, go to art school, get some decent materials, stop kidding yourself...” and so forth. This would theoretically make me feel better, I suppose, but, since I have a conscience, I do not wish to hurt the feelings of the amateur artist, so I would not “come down” on them in this manner. At the end of the day, what YOU’RE trying to do is not the same as what I’m trying to do, OK? Also, I choose to crossdress, and you may not, so please factor that into the equation...
I think I may have written the longest post somewhere along the way, but I’m not going to look at post #71 and see if I’m right. BTW, this has been discussed before, but I ignore certain people to avoid flame wars. The way things are around here, it can be a lot like shoveling water uphill, and I have better things to do with my time. There are obviously a lot of nice TG MtF crossdressers, but there are a few who denigrate the “amateurs” and bring us all down...
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Yes Lorileah, I think hers is the longest post on cd.com, but done with multi quotes, but there is one undisputed record holder on here with the longest post with no interruptions, bar none. Do any of us know who that would be? I do. She can do a whole page with a response. I say Veronica is in second place.Veronica, post 71 has got to be the title holder for longest post on CD.com. You even out did me
hard to have a discussion if you don't have the whole picture then isn't it?
I have noticed you, you are prolific. However your post that I was referencing was implying that TG was more TS than CD...I was just pointing out, as others which you have probably blocked have pointed out, TG is the umbrella term for any one from Drag queens to TS and every one in between who present in any manner as the opposite gender.Dearest Lorileah - don’t you think that I KNOW the difference between a crossdresser, a transgendered person and a transsexual? I’ve been here a while now, discussing the same old topics over and over – maybe you’ve noticed me.
Her opinion. Just as valid as anyone'sshe is pointing out that certain MtF crossdressers live in shame, and the latter have to start asserting themselves, the sooner the better.So you want some one to **** on your back and tell you it's raining? It is her opinion, nothing more, why do you believe she isn't supporting you, she just thinks that things could be different.What support! What community!...I have to break in here again...do you see what you just said? "The TG's" here...so you are covering everyone right? from DQ-TS and in between, you are not asserting that TG's are the TS's? Just clearing that up because it reads that way to me...Ok back to the quote...What a sense of belonging I feel whenever I log on to this site, and then peruse this section, where the TG’sYou are reading way more into it than was said. No one said they were better than anyone else. The opinions were stated that we have experience and when your story is similar, we can relate.are going to tell you what you’re doing wrong! I’ll tell you, if I was a newbie, trying my best to get in a little crossdressing now and then, I would log off and forget the whole idea once I came in contact with those who are obviously WAY superior to me.
You are the second person to tell me to get lost in the last week. Know what, you are not getting rid of me any more than you are letting those you believe are after you will get rid of you. By the way, it is raining on your back.May I offer a suggestion? How about keeping your thoughts to yourself, unless they are meant to offer SUPPORT to all MtF crossdressers? Support, in this case, does not mean putting down people like me, who are simply crossdressing for pleasure – we exist, and we have a right to exist,That you do and I believe you have. And others have the right to respond. Just as I expect you to respond. That is why this is a discussion. We talk back and forth.and we also have a right to point out when we are being wronged by people who should know better.
so you would in effect lie to them just to make them feel better and then get shot down later when they have a lot more invested in the "art"I keep thinking of an analogy, but few may understand it. I’m a professional artist of some repute, definitely not an amateur. In other words, I have a lot of expertise. ... Let’s say I go on a discussion forum for artists, the majority of them amateurs, and there are lots of photos of amateur paintings with glaring mistakes, yet the artist is hoping for some encouragement. ...In this instance, how WELCOME do you feel my acidic, critical comments would be, meant to either derail the amateur or point out that they need to start thinking seriously about what they’re doing? “Get out and paint before a live model, go to art school, get some decent materials, stop kidding yourself...” and so forth. This would theoretically make me feel better,How very kind of you, being an expert and all. I am very good at my profession also. Using words like "amateur" isn't being superior, right? You see how you can take something not meant to be insulting and make it so?I suppose, but, since I have a conscience, I do not wish to hurt the feelings of the amateur artist, so I would not “come down” on them in this manner.
you may be correct at that. You are a prolific writer who is very good at pouring your heart and soul into your threads.I think I may have written the longest post somewhere along the way,There is that word again.There are obviously a lot of nice TG MtF crossdressers, but there are a few who denigrate the “amateurs” and bring us all down...
Last edited by Lorileah; 11-05-2012 at 07:42 PM. Reason: spelling and syntax
The earth is the mother of all people and all people should have equal rights upon it.
Chief Joseph
Nez Perce
“Love isn't a state of perfect caring. It is an active noun like struggle. To love someone is to strive to accept that person exactly the way he or she is, right here and now.” - Fred Rogers,
Motel Rooms and Shame
This is an excellent post and I applaud you for raising issues we all should think about. And I believe that we can learn a lot by studying the successes of other groups — lesbians and gays, women more generally, African Americans, and others.
Many of us do go out in public upon occasion. Organized crossdressing groups typically have monthly meetings; their members go out to restaurants and entertainment places on Friday and Saturday. But this doesn’t entirely contradict your observations. Such meetings occur out of town. Crossdressers don their feminine attire in a motel or hotel room; they meet in a conference room that is somewhat isolated from other patrons at the hotel or motel; and after two days of semi-freedom they don their male clothing again and drive the 50 or 100 miles back to their home communities.
It would be nice to just go out on our front porches and shout, “Hey, you ungrateful people! I’m going to dress as a lady whenever I want to from now on!” But the scenario described in the previous paragraph is part of the grand compromise we often make with our families and others who believe that they and we would face unwanted consequences if we took those valiant actions.
Still, you’ve given us plenty of good reasons why we deserve to be more accepted than we are in 2012.
My objection to this statement in the OP, as I tried to point out more subtly in post #65 is that while my photos are clearly taken in various hotel rooms I am certainly NOT secretive nor ashamed. I am simply protecting my otherwise wonderful relationship with my wife.
I may be called sensitive but the reference to "most" is what irritates me. There is a clear view in the many posts that "most" who take photos in hotel rooms and put them on the forum are NOT ashamed.
Where the OP has supporters is from the many that would like the world to be a better place for CDers. I am one of those but those taking photos in hotel rooms object to the inference that we are ashamed.
Now if only I could have a photographer following me around I can recategorise myself.
Last edited by Michelle (Oz); 11-06-2012 at 02:58 AM.
As the OP of this thread, I have watched with increasing interest (and some alarm) not only how many responses it has generated, but also the degree of controversy that it has stirred up. It has led to a lively discussion of a relevant topic - which is a good thing - as well as a cathartic exercise for many of us. The bad thing is that it has also become a bit divisive and polarizing, which is not good, nor was it my intent to have it construed this way.
Clearly, I have struck a nerve in some instances, and equally unfortunately, some posters here have decided to hijack my premise to drive their own agendas. And I have watched with increasing dismay that something of a peeing contest has broken out between Veronica Moonlit, Lorileah, and Frédérique, while Annabelle Larousse and suzy1 have gracefully backed out of the fray after becoming collateral damage in some of the b*tchy exchanges.
But before I continue, let me clarify my own views on this issue:
- Some of you have taken me to task for referring to our crossdressing activities as a "hobby", and felt that in doing so, I have trivialized it. Au contraire - being over 60 years old and having been aware of my transgender and crossdressing inclinations since about age 5, I am fully aware that for most of us, this is who we are and not just an activity that we fell into on a whim. I used the term facetiously, and in retrospect perhaps should have put quotation marks around it to signal my intent more clearly. Mea culpa.
- If the tone of my OP appeared judgemental of those who are still deep in the closet because they are somehow still ashamed of of being crossdressers and of the potential negative fall-out resulting from publicly revealing this side of themselves, that was also not my intent. Been there, done that myself, and it has only been in the last 5 years or so that I have been going out in public en femme. And while each of our respective journeys towards self-acceptance may take different twists and turns, the ultimate end-point may be different, and the time taken to get there may vary considerably, each of us must follow their own destiny and proceed at their own pace. Furthermore, while our personal situations may be similar in many respects, there are also many unique aspects to them as well, so one size doesn't fit all. I "get" that.
And as many of you are aware through my own DADT posts and similar ones, my personal situation is complicated by a wife who also struggles with trying to accept this part of me but we are making progress - although still at a somewhat glacial pace. The fundamental difference is that I have come to accept and embrace this part of myself and move forward - and in my case this involves going out in public en femme with increasing confidence and frequency - whereas she chooses to ignore the degree to which society has come to accept the kind of diversity that we represent, and is locked into a mindset more indicative of societal mores of 30-40 years ago. All I am advocating for those still sitting on the fence about going out in public is that despite our initial fears, once we take that first, intimidating step, we soon realize that all of our previous fears of being "outed" or laughed at were groundless, and that most people won't even give us a second look. Try it, you'll like it!
No, my "rant" was not directed at my fellow crossdressers here, nor to chastise those who are still being secretive about their activities, which in some cases meant that either a hotel or a motel room represented the only "safe" venue for them to indulge in them. My rant was directed primarily at the society that we live in, and which in many cases still casts a jaundiced eye at crossdressers because - unlike gays, lesbians, and even transsexuals - they often simply don't "get" us. And when someone doesn't "get" you, they become wary of you and sometimes see you as a threat of one form or another. We, in turn, pick up on these signals and aid and abet these negative views by becoming brainwashed into believing that what we do is somehow reprehensible or morally wrong, when it is nothing of the sort if viewed logically.
The only way to dispel these views it through education of the public, and the media is doing its part by the increasing frequency in which we are not only seeing this topic being addressed, but also in the factual and supportive manner this information is being presented. Similarly, more and more jurisdictions at the federal, state/provincial, and municipal levels in many Western countries are now introducing transgender-friendly legislation to facilitate our integration into mainstream society. The missing piece here is that we must also do our part to to be out and about, see and be seen, allow "regular" people to meet and get to know us, and in the process, dispel any negative preconceptions or stereotype that they might have harbored in the past.
That's all that I am advocating, but for those who are not comfortable doing this - that's O.K. too as far as I'm concerned. No judgement here, and as I said earlier, I was there once too. And while I have no problem in interfacing with strangers as "Leslie" now, like many of you, I still draw the line at doing this with my extended family, friends, employers, co-workers, or any others who might be in a position to impact my life negatively if they had a bad reaction to my "outing" myself in this way. Too old for this now, too many relationships set in their ways, and too many potential complications. But if I were younger - and given how accepting of diversity the younger generation is - my approach to that issue would be a whole lot different.
All that said, I have a couple of pet peeves that I'd also like to voice here with regard to this thread, and the manner in which some of the posters have responded.
First of all, VeronicaMoonlit, sorry that you felt compelled to proclaim "I'm going to say this from the start...this is a dead horse thread....we've discussed this topic many many times. Not just here but other places as well. So, being one of those people that has seen this topic over and over....I am...annoyed." Maybe you're annoyed - and that's your privilege - but as per your profile, you've been a member of this forum since 2005, and perhaps much of this is déj* vu for you. But many others here are recent participants or newbies, and this may be a fresh topic for them. It isn't always about you, Veronica. And as for the "dead horse" part, well, you've certainly gone to extreme lengths to beat this one to death despite your avowed disdain for said equines, including one marathon post that even others felt was a bit over-the-top.
Now let me tell you what annoys me....
Replying to a thread with quotes and multi-quotes is one thing, but when I see one of my posts commented on line-by-line as if accompanied by the type of Greek Chorus that was a feature of the plays of antiquity and then emerging out the other end as if it had been sliced, diced, and julienned after having passed through one of Ron Popeil's Veg-O-Matics, I take exception to that. Go ahead and comment on my views and posts to your heart's content. In fact, I welcome feedback - both positive and negative - as it can only help me grow as a person. But seeing one of my posts picked apart as though I was handing in an English composition to my Grade 6 teacher for critiquing and marking - well , that's a bit much. What can we expect next, a rating of A, B+, or C- etc. attached to our posts in future?
And Frédérique - in one of your replies, you said "Referencing what I wrote above, you need to know I suspended ignoring you long enough to read this latest rant of yours, if only to verify something to myself. Yup, I was right. Why all the rants of late? Is something bothering you? Hijacking your own volatile vernacular, crossdressing is a wonderful, yet “strange” so-called hobby – why not just crossdress according to your own desires and stop kicking the communal hornet’s nest? Oh, and BTW, thanks for not answering my PM…"
Seriously? Being a tad touchy, are we?
And as for your aforementioned PM - I still have it saved in my Inbox. Your exact quote was "...I’d love to discuss history (or anything else) with you, Leslie! Feel free to PM me anytime..." . Maybe I will, and maybe I won't, but I also I didn't know that there was a time limit attached to that invitation. Mea culpa again, I guess.
C'mon ladies, let's act like grown-ups here, maintain this discussion on track, and keep the unnecessary sniping to a minimum...
Last edited by Leslie Langford; 11-06-2012 at 12:03 PM.
Leslie, I don't always agree with you, and I didn't on this thread, but I appreciate that you always keep it civil.
But, I wholeheartedly agree with you about some people quoting and picking apart every sentence. I'd much rather see "Nicole, regarding your post # [insert number here], you're wrong about everything you said, because I'm smart and you're an idiot". It's the same message, but so much more efficient.
I have read every post in this thread and cannot help but feel as if some members are "Bullies". It's not a quote but comes across as Either be like me or your of no use to us and OUR cause at all.
I am only out of the closet to my wife that I know of. This does not mean I am also not out to the thousands of people who have seen me dressed totally enfemme when we do go out togeather in public. They just don't personally know me, and I like it just that way. I do not hide in Motel rooms, I go out and strut my stuff but I refuse to be bullied into telling anyone I do not want to know of my crossdressing just to advance the cause of someone else that I don't know.
There is a lot of difference between Going out and comming out and the bullies seem to be speaking of comming out while the OP seemed to be speaking more about going out
Last edited by kendra_gurl; 11-08-2012 at 04:23 PM. Reason: additional comment
Thank you, Nicole and kendra for those kind words of support.
You wouldn't believe the number of forum members who PM'ed me after my last post to also voice their support for the way I pushed back here, but for reasons best known to themselves, opted to do this behind closed doors (so to speak) rather than have their views made public. Maybe they feared starting a flame war, or perhaps they felt constrained by the forces of political correctness and didn't relish being perceived as going against the grain. Then again, maybe they just didn't want to see those posts themselves being eviscerated.
Not my place to judge, but I will say this - history has shown time and time again that when dealing with bullies, there really is no option but to stand up to them and confront them if you want them to back off. Diplomacy, polite words, and trying to appeal to their sense of reason or fair play typically gets you nowhere fast...
Nicole, Kendra. Yes, that's right, rally the "Tea Party Crossdressers" against the one who called you on the Hypocrisy of wanting support from this transgendered community from this site on one hand and stabbing the transgendered community in the back with the other. Kendra, plenty of us saw your homophobic comments where you referred to gay people parenting as child abuse, and your near homophobic comments in other threads, don't try to play the martyr here.
Any trans-inclusive statewide anti-discrimination laws in Mississippi or Texas yet? Get back to me when TPC's like you two openly support those in action and deed, admit it to your friends, and when laws like that actually happen.
And Leslie, don't enable them....sure they agree with you when you disagree with my tactics because they can't stand my Yankee Home State of the President Liberal guts (that's really why they're here, to vent their recent frustrations over you know what)....but they disagree with the actual topic you brought up about shame. They are not your allies on this topic or most other ones. They probably think of you a pinko-socialist gay marriage and socialized medicine loving Canuck.
Some time back, ReineD once explained my posting style... and said that criticizing the style....wasn't acceptable....should I ask her to do it again?
I actually responded to Leslie's comment back a ways in private... but I'll post only the things I wrote.
Beginning some of the things I said:
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I saw the recent post, will probably reply to it tomorrow..but I did want to talk about my posting style now...before you see my response tomorrow. You might want to ask ReineD about it...she did a good explanation of it when it was causing issues with Frederique and Suzy.. I don't have the link to her post handy right now, sorry about that, but I'll do a quick explanation though ReineD explains it better.
As you know...I'm been on these boards for a long time...but before these boards...I was on other ones...and before that, there was USENET.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usenet
My posting style is the standard posting style on USENET...the etiquette of USENET expected it, and the means people used to post to USENET, mostly e-mail clients....made it the best method. E-mail clients do proper threading and quoting, by default most message boards don't do proper threading.
That's where I learned it. It is used to reduce confusion and mistakes over who and what is replying to whom and which point. Using that style makes it obvious what point is being replied to with a specific response. It' also helps organize thoughts and responses. It's not meant as "picking" or "dissecting". The fact that people here take it as such annoys me, because it shows the lack of "institutional history" online.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eternal_September
That post of mine is so long, because I'm quoting multiple people! On USENET, multi-posting...meaning posting short messages responding to individuals separately was frowned upon in many groups. In fact, multi-posting...like if I was to post to you and say Lorileah separately, is actually against the rules here. If you post twice or more in a row with no one else in between, your posts will be concatenated or they used to be when the mods were more active in getting stuff done. To prevent that, I multi-quote..which is the accepted standard form of prevention.
You're probably thinking.."I didn't know that", a lot of people don't. One of the reasons why is that this forum has no sense of institutional history anymore. It was different when I joined....there were mods here then who were veterans of USENET...they recognized me right off and sent PM's welcoming me and saying it was good to have me here. I got recognized as an AFer (someone who frequently posted on the alt.fashion USENENT newsgroup that was almost entirely GG's) here by some people because use of a few fashionista terms and meme's common to AF.
I'm a member of another trans-board (Joined before I joined here, it's my primary board) ran by a woman who has written two books about trans-issues...I've never had any problems with my posting style there...course, it's full of oldbies and newbies are expected to learn the ropes in ways they aren't here. It's also a lot more cerebral...which is intimidated to new folk...no "color of panties" or "tights vs. stay ups" threads there....except the ones started by me on april fools day as sly reference to this board. There The trans is....what is sometimes called on the internet: "SRS BSNS" (serious business). On that board, wives/partners know...there is minimal DADT, everyone goes out in public now and then, and even the crossdressers identify as feminists. There is also no "Tea Party Crossdresser" crowd.
So now you know.
I think you miised the point....in this instance Lorileah is "good cop", I'm "bad cop"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Good_cop/bad_cop
It is more effective than subtle hints or playing all nicey nicey. I've done that in the past...and it doesn't work. I can make all the subtle hints and suggestions I want and they don't get seen....because the vast majority of crossdressers are so "barefoot in the head" that they don't get it unless you hit them over the head with it. I myself had to be hit over the head with it. I've seen it over and over again.
So you come along and tell me my methods suck...of course they do...but I've found nothing better that works with obstinate, fearful transfolk filled with shame and self delusion. I do play nice with some people...I've gone easy on TGMarla for example, though I probably shouldn't have.
There is too much "bad stuff" on these boards...you've seen it or you wouldn't have started the motel shame thread in the first place. We need to start dealing with it and policing our own or we won't get any respect from the partners or society in general.
You may be thinking it's not my call...but no one else is doing it, the mods are pretty much absent and/or clueless themselves, or are so disgusted with CD behavior they have no interest in clearing the trash.
Okay, let me put it this way. Suppose you're new at say....using computers.... wouldn't it be a good idea to learn from the old hands? And shouldn't the old hands share what works, what doesn't and things to look out for.
The problem is, we don't have that here. Plenty of people here actively ignore advice from the oldbies that tells them to stop being deceptive or to avoid certain actions. And then when the oldbie...most of the time it's not even me, is proven right they come back here and whine about the situation their bad actions or foolishness caused.
It may seem mean, or arrogant to you, but I'm trying to prevent future problems as you've seen, I"m all about "Prevention, prevention prevention"....if being harsh will do it...I'll do it..and regret doing it every time.
I'm just doing what was done to me, I bristled against it at the time...just like you and others are doing...but it was for the best in the long run as I have seen. One of my "blunt mentors" was "Lacey Leigh". I learned a lot from her....It was thanks to her I started going out in public and joined a support group. I feel I owe her to pay it forward.
I should have worded that better, I admit, mea culpa. I wasn't really annoyed at the topic or you, but more annoyed that the topic was still something controversial and questioned in 2012. You were absolutely right about the shame and whatnot...but people questioned it and I simply couldn't believe people could be so clueless. Again, it was my fault. But I absolutely did agree with you, which is why I posted.
I think this site needs more analysis and less fluff...but you know that.
My original post really wasn't for you, it was for the others, it was just a stepping stone to write what I did. I agree with you much more often than not
You and I have both seen the "crap" on these boards...so what do you suggest we do about it...nothing? When someone does the "I[m playing while wifey's away" should we say nothing. When someone says "I'm doing hormones on the sly without medical supervision or wife's knowledge" do we say nothing? The noise to signal ratio on this forum is bad enough as it is.
#####################
I freely admit to being arrogant, but not without justification. You can try to bully me into not calling people on their foolishness, self-defeating behavior, homophobia or other things....but I believe that MORE of us need to do that. My methods aren't the best, I know this, which is why I try to find a "good cop" to team up with.
Bad behavior gets slammed by the bad cop, good behavior gets complimented by both good cop and bad cop...it's that simple. I am reminded of The Keeper in the Original Star Trek Pilot episode: The Cage:
"Wrong thinking is punishable. Right thinking will be as quickly rewarded. You will find it an effective combination."
And I'm all about using what works in the long run. If playing nicey nicey worked better, I'd do that...but it doesn't as we can see from this site.
And not a single quote in this post.
Veronica
If you believe in it, makeup has a magic all it's own -- Sooner or Later (TV movie)
We ask ourselves, Who am I to be brilliant, gorgeous, talented, fabulous? Actually, who are you not to be?- Marianne Williamson
Have I also not said that "This Thing of Ours" makes some of us a bit "Barefoot in the Head"? Well, it does.
Let's just face it... Everybody just has to find their confort zone.
Since this thread has devolved into members sniping at each other and has edged into politics it is now closed.
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