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Thread: Do you support Transgender rights?

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  1. #11
    Swans have more fun! sandra-leigh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ms. Alexis View Post
    "Gay Rights" have become a catch all for promoting an agenda
    What "agenda" is that? The advocacy of cultural acceptance and normalization of non-heterosexual orientations and relationships?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    If you are tired of living like this - having your harmless secret overshadow your life, then goddammit fight to make yourselves known. There are a LOT of CDs. Way more than transsexuals. You pay taxes, you vote, and if you raise enough hell, politicians will notice.
    When a political party declares opposition in principle, then unless you are in the 10% or so of swing voters, advocating for a position might be considered as proof that their principle is right (e.g., "if gay people aren't planning to force everyone to be gay, then they wouldn't be so loud about this"). Sometimes divide-and-conquer diplomacy works better.

    Quote Originally Posted by devida View Post
    Of course it didn't work out that way. And the reason is obvious, isn't it? Gay men and lesbians stood up, out and proud, and demanded the same rights as heterosexuals, and, as society realizes that there is no argument for social and legal oppression of gay and lesbian minorities, more and more nations have accorded them the same rights as the heterosexual majority, to the extent that not only is marriage equality clearly moving towards national acceptance but there were more hate crimes against jews last year recorded thatnagainst gays and lesbians.

    That's not true for transgender,
    The Stonewall rights were about transwomen refusing to be harassed any further. Trans people have always been involved in gay rights, but since there are many more gay people than trans people, trans people have repeatedly been pushed aside and told their time will come later. For example the US ENDA was drafted including trans rights, but when there was opposition to that, the trans rights portions were jettisoned, "If we include this then the whole package will fail, and you wouldn't want that, would you?"

    Quote Originally Posted by Audrey Sis View Post
    Nothing ever has changed for "fringe" groups Unless people have been made "uncomfortable."
    Never? So there is no role for people like me who go out and just be ourselves and let people discover that they aren't uncomfortable after all?

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ View Post
    If you don't feel comfortable putting on your favorite garments and walking in public, going to your job, telling your wife, going about your daily life as yourself, or at least the fragment of yourself that needs to be let out from time to time, then you are part of the problem.
    That's going way too far, in my opinion. I did not become trans as a "cause"; I am trans for myself. Do you really think that I ought be demanding my mother to accept my being trans on the basis that I would be Betraying The Cause if I took the soft approach with her ? Is there a trans fund of some kind that I can draw upon in compensation for loss of work when news of my transition goes to every continent and subcontinent (yes, I have been consulted by people in Antarctic) with me posting "I'm trans and you are going to like it!"? Is making waves for The Trans Cause absolutely positively definitely the best way to help?

    I don't see other trans people martyring themselves for my needs. I don't see other trans people even asking what my needs are. If I experience some discomfort and exercise some caution then I am so not going to beat myself up about "not doing enough".

    You really ought to review your history more carefully. Gay and Lesbians have not been "doing the heavy lifting" for trans people: trans people have been there and active all along, just not insistent that "If you don't include trans rights then we're going to campaign against this as not going far enough".

    Quote Originally Posted by alwayshave View Post
    Discrimination is unconstitutional at any level.
    When you are in a grocery store and there is a half-rotten onion in the bin, and a complete onion beside it, which of the two do you buy? Why are you discriminating against rotten food?

    If you are chatting around the water cooler with some advertising executives and you ask "What is this black spot on my elbow?" and one of them says "Pneumonia" and another says "grease", then why aren't you going to go to clothing store to buy some cyanide to eat to cure pneumonia? Are you going to discriminate against nonsense, against inappropriate venues, against harmful actions? How do you know that eating cyanide would not cure the black spot on your elbow, seeing as it is apparently "unconstitutional" to discriminate, and thus "unconstitutional" to consider past experience, scientific experiments, intelligence, or anything else that might allow you "to note or observe a difference; distinguish accurately".

    Not all discrimination is unlawful. Some kinds of discrimination are necessary to survive (e.g., being careful about what one eats). Some kinds of discrimination are a practical necessity, such as requiring people to be minimally competent at their jobs. Some kinds of discrimination may be evolved (e.g., xenophobia is a proven survival trait under some conditions), but ethically one should struggle to overcome while acknowledging their reality. Some kinds of discrimination have no observable benefit, only observable harm, and are rightly banned.
    Last edited by sandra-leigh; 04-16-2014 at 10:48 PM.

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