Well, I had a good run... :cry:

[charlenesomeone]

Erin,
So sorry. Seems maybe accepting was more like tolerating.
Good Luck whatever you decide.
Hugs

[Chari]

Great advice from all previous posts Erin! Will only add YOU must decide & live whatever it takes to be comfortable in YOUR life. Knowing through experience, no matter where you are on the gender scale, no matter what the therapy - CDing is now and will always be a part of you! Wishing you a positive resolve.

[Yoshisaur]

That's kinda sad to hear Erin, but remember if you need people to talk to a support you we're here for you -hugs Kira

[Cheyenne Skye]

Sounds a lot like what happened to me. Except my wife was going to therapy with me. All within a few days she cancelled all future therapy appointments and moved into the spare bedroom. But we talked and both came to the realization that it was over and started discussing the terms of the separation. Three weeks later she served me with a restraining order (based entirely on her twisted perception of things) and I was forced to move out. I was completely blind sided by it. I appealed the order and won. I got back in the house five months later. By then she had failed to pay the mortgage, home equity loan or the HOA dues even once. And because I couldn't be present when she moved out (terms of the order and subsequent appeal), she made off with half of my (women's) clothes and about an eighth of my Compact Disc collection that I've had for over twenty years (I only knew her for 16). Point is, she went from apparently accepting for a long time to spiteful and vindictive. I just want to caution you to watch your back.

[LeslieSD]

I feel for you. I have been in similar situation, and haven't completely solved my situation yet. But I have gotten to a semi-equilibrium. Some call it DADT.

So basically, let's start with a non-working situation. You want something called A, and she wants none of A. A could be crossdress, or golf, or traveling, whatever things that caused problem. There are only a couple of solutions: (1) you change, (2) she changes, (3) both of you change somewhat. Which way it goes depends on a few factors, a) if the issue is intrinsic, and b) for non-intrinsic issues, if the party is willing to make the change.

This issue is usually that most women assume CDing is a choice (there are a few threads on this earlier), so they apply pressure (such as ultimatum) trying to get the change scale going their way. This has been the built-in way of negotiation for some people. The first approach to solution here is to make the point clear that CDing is intrinsic (just like being gay). You may be surprised that many women did not know that. Once you get the basic assumptions agreed on, the discussion may become a bit easier.

This does not mean you can always get her to go your way. I now fell that for some women, not wanting CDing in their husband may be intrinsic too (or close to intrinsic), as their emotional stimulation is tied to physical appearance. Not wanting CDing in their husband may be in some way similar to that a heterosexual man would not want to date a man. In some way such a women marrying a CDer is a sexually incompatible situation (which usually got blamed on the deception of the CDing party. This itself is a long topic). If the emotional connection is strong, they may both compromise, which leads to DADT situation. If not, then it probably leads to dissolution of the marriage.

[ReineD]

I'm sorry you're going through this, but I have a few comments:

I know that as Erin and I much more "girlie" than her...She rarely wears make up, I wear more jewellery as a male than she does, her hair is as short or shorter than mine as a male, and the last time she wore a dress was probably 2 years ago, to a friends wedding. Always pants. And more Cotton than the state of Georgia. As Erin I have more silky clothes than her, and I am in much better shape.

Why are you comparing yourself to your wife? There are many different ways that women choose to present depending on their personalities, and all of them are valid. "Girlie" is just one way to do it. When I walk around my local mall, I'd say that only a small percentage of women choose to adopt what I consider is a girlie style.

My guess is that maybe she felt threatened as a female and chose "fight" over "flight"?

My guess is that she does not like the girlie style on her husband. And I wonder if the "less than"/"better than" attitudes I am picking up in your first quote are showing through even though you do not say these things to your wife.

I remember years ago, I read an interesting post from a GG who was a member here for a short time. I've no idea how she looked or how she presented in her day-to-day life, but she said that she had never chosen to become friends with girls who were "girlie-girls". I immediately understood what she meant. When I was younger I did know some girls who seemed to really be into makeup, clothes, hairstyles, polished nails, etc., but I had nothing in common with them. I liked friends who could ski, who were into concerts, art, photography, among other activities. I might have shopped for clothing with a girlfriend if I needed something special like a prom dress but other than that yearly occurrence, grooming activities were not central to my life. By this I mean that if I wanted to wear makeup, I'd spend the few minutes it took to put it on, and then I'd forget about it, not unlike having breakfast. Anyway, this GG member said that if she was not choosing to hang out with friends whose priorities were clothing, hairdos, makeup, and nails, then why would she enjoy spending time with a husband who was into this?

I honestly don't think it has anything to do with your wife feeling threatened.

I don't know what to suggest other than to try to put your focus on getting in touch with your femininity without making clothes, hair, nails, jewelry, makeup, and clothing central to the process. You can wear these things, but they are just tools, not the main event?

[BLUE ORCHID]

Hi Erin, It just breaks my heart to read a story like this I wish I could tell you what you want to hear,
Please keep us advised as you know that you have thousands of friends here for you.

[Tracii G]

Seems like she wants her way and you can't have yours. A power play indeed and she want to control you.
I would tell her why don't you leave?
If she won't go to the therapist with you it throws up a red flag to me.
1. She doesn't love you or care about you.
2.Your happiness means nothing to her.
3.She is blaming you for her shortcomings.
I guess I'm a bit jaded by women having been used and abused mentally I will not put up with their BS anymore.

[Melissa_Rose]

I had a similar experience.. but currently a happier resolution.
My wife was initially supportive. Took me shopping
Encouraged dressing at home but not out. I thought we were fine.
We got into an argument one day and she said something about my dressing. She said she felt as if I pushed it too far too fast and it was too much ( never mind at this point she was taking me shopping at her own suggestion).. I let the comments go then brought it up a few weeks later. Turns out she was ok with some things not other aspects. Our talks continued and I ended up moving out for 6 months. We talked often about our issues and dresing. Over time she came to understand more about me and realized this is something I have been doing since childhood. I refused to move back in until I felt totally accepted. And while she still has more to come to terms with, she is much more open and accepting to why this is a need for me.
Now we are talking about full dressing vacations, I get my nails done with hers in a salon. We are back to making shopping trips and I believe she is much happier. More importantly, we talk about things and express our feelings good and bad to each other.
Hopefully you can use this as an opportunity to talk and discuss things with your SO.

cdn

[jayme357]

"Subject is closed. She is now happy as a lark, chatty and smiling all the time".

You can rationalize all you want. She has made a decision and it is not likely to change. She has decided without reservation that life with a CD is not for her. Accept it.

Your task is to dig deep and find a way to protect yourself. Be comfortable with who you are and do not look back but focus on your future. This is a lot easier said than done, but your survival must be your top priority.

Good luck. You have a lot of friends here that will help you in every possible way.

[suchacutie]

One has to wonder how these abrupt changes occur. Is there some confidente involved? web search information? something you changed?
You might be well served knowing the source of the change in order to anticipate the next step from her. Seeing a lawyer could also be prudent. Sorry if this sounds negative, but it seems time for you to look for some security.

[Stephanie47]

Reine made some comments at #31 before I could. As is my custom I went back and read some of your comments and posts. You definitely need to not compare yourself to your wife. Wives come in all shapes and sizes that are subject to change. Your hair is longer. So what! I see may really sexy women with short hair. She has gained weight. Yep, everyone seems to be subject to that these days. Been to the mall? Been to the local bar. You have a lot more sexy clothes than her. She hasn't worn a dress in two years. A wedding it was? It sounds like my wife. She has a BMI over 30. She wears a touch of makeup, lip gloss and that's all! She cannot wear heels anymore because of a foot operation, fused toe. Yep, forty years ago I could carry her up four flights of stairs to our walk up apartment. She was 115 =/- pounds. She was a ten. She still is a ten in my book.

I look in the mirror and my wavy blond hair is gone. The hair that remains is grey. I have put on some pounds. Yes, I went from 175 military weight to 215 and now down to 190. I've lost an inch in height. My back is a wreck. I have peripheral and autonomic neiropathy that hurts like hell sometimes. War wounds are killing me.

Neither she nor I have dumped each other. There must be something else happening in your life beside her looks.

Yes, I now have 107 dresses and over 400 slips. I have more bra, girdles (she has none), and panties than she has. Yes, I present myself as the man she married, but, with the signs of aging. Decades ago she told me cross dressing was not her cup of tea. She loves tea! So, I have long hair when I wear a wig. I dress up when she is not home. Right now? I wearing a black tee shirt. Gym shorts. No socks. I haven't shaved in three days. I need a hair cut. I actually feel comfortable sitting here banging away on the keyboard.

Over the years I've read too much crap on this board that the wife is suppose to bend to the husband's cross dressing desires. It is shoved in her face! Take it or leave it! I've always have respected my wife's views. Yes, it is DADT. And, that includes the visual trappings of cross dressing.

I suspect there is a second side to the issues in your marriage. You definitely have stated how much "girlie" you are than she. Yes, I suggest marital therapy for both of you, and, individual therapy for both of you. Of course, you'll relish the thoughts the therapist will tell your wife that you are who you are. But, will there be an accommodation for who you wife is? I suspect from your post that is not on your agenda.

[Eringirl]

First off, thanks so much to all of you for taking the time to comment. I cannot begin to express how much that means to me. Thanks for the support and pearls of wisdom. And thanks for asking the tough questions. Trust me, I have, and still am, asking all of those questions of myself and of the situation, but good to know that they are the right questions to ask.

As for meeting with my therapist, that is for me, to work through this and get myself on an even keel, so to speak. I know that I don't do well with ultimatums. I have a reputation for not dealing with threats or ultimatums. You better be ready to do what you say if you do give one. So that is a bit of my personality that probably gets in the way sometimes. For now I am letting things sit. It is still pretty raw, so I think it needs to heal over a bit. For me, I need to take a breath. If I decide to open this up again, I need to do so from a position of strength, not mental frailty. And I honestly don't know what I am going to do at this time. My wife has made it very clear that she will not participate in therapy. Case closed on that for now.

Ya, I know women come in all shapes and sizes, and all are beautiful in their own way. I get that. The "girlie" comment was more around what my wife doesn't deal with. She's a professional and in her mind she doesn't think that anyone would take her seriously if she wore make up, dresses, etc, etc. I, on the other hand, work and interact with women everyday who wear makeup, hair and nails done, wearing dresses and skirts, killer shoes etc. They are lawyers, engineers, CEOs etc and are very bright...I mean scary smart. So, we come at this from two different points of view. My wife thinks that she would be perceived as a "bimbo", trying to compensate for lack of "smarts". Which is not the case. My wife is one of the brightest people I know. She can hold her own with anyone. But that is the way she was brought up. Her mom is the same way. So she has a hard time with that.

I am not trying to be defensive, so please don't take offence. I value all of our comments and thoughts. Just as everyone has their own world, circumstances and thoughts, so do I, right or wrong. I am just glad there is a place for us to share them and have open discussions. This place is awesome !!

So, enough ramblings for now. I am hoping to get back to clarity of thought as I am working through a bit of stormy conditions in my fury little brain, so bear with me. I will keep posting updates, and you can PM me if you like. Happy to correspond.

Thanks again to all !!!

Erin

[Sharon B.]

Been down that road once before, I feel for you. Hope you and the spouse can even ground to stand on.

[Marcelle]

Hi Erin,

Firstly sweetie, I am so sorry this has happened. To be honest those of us who are open with our wives and they are supporting are all just one step away from complete reversal should things go awry. I am not sure what happened to change her mind so abruptly but is quite obvious she is very upset and you are now in turmoil.

It is possible that she just got to a saturation point and her knee jerk reaction was to stop accepting everything. Give her some space, take it easy on dressing for awhile, see your therapist and then begin the road to communication. I would not recommend trying to get her to talk right now as she is probably still very confused and in turmoil herself . . . breathing space is a good thing. However, we all know how hard it is to bottle this thing we do and it will seep out in other ways should you just stop complete (frustration, anger, hate all come to mind). Let's see what your therapist says and ask her/him the best way forward in dealing with this. I do believe you are going to have to come to some sort of agreement in the end and hopefully common ground can be found.

Again sweetie, sorry to hear this . . . please don't hesitate to reach out should you need a sounding board.

Hugs

Isha

[Sissyboy2]

Ask her what she wants to get out of therapy, because therapy isn't meant to change people it's to accept of yourself.

[Alice Torn]

If she is going to be this controlling, and giving you ultimatums, and will not go with you to therapy, and it all has to be her way, no compromise, and she refuses to see she has issues, too, it may be time to have a long talk. I f she continues to attack you, it may be best to leave the toxic situation.

[bobbimo]

Its time to point out how disappointed you are in her MALE attire and MALE habits of watching NFL etc, Short hair to boot.
If she want to be alpha male then there is no room for 2 alpha males, and you will to take the feminine roll to balance out the house.
Good luck and keep those panties waving high
Bobbi

[Tina_gm]

Does anyone remember the game spill the beans, or don't spill the beans?..... It can handle 10 or 20 or whatever, and then one more little bean and over it goes. It could be rather than some big thing you did or didn't do, it was something trivial to you, something said, or implied. Some little action, comment, reaction.

My wife has told me in the past that CDing is easier to handle for her when there is not a lot else going on in our lives. Stressful things that is. She called it the full plate. Whether or not this is the case with other GG's?? but it is with my wife. So, I know that when we are in times of stress, I am careful not to get into a discussion, unless she brings it up, which I usually allow her to do anyway, but occasionally I may say something off handed that may or may not start a convo. When those stressful days or times are occurring, I try extra hard to steer clear of anything that is CD related.

We CD's often have a tendency to ride the line of whatever limits or agreements we make with our S/O's. I think that that in itself can be a stress for them at times, because we are always right there on the line, and they are waiting for us to either attempt to move the line, or step over it. I sometimes remind myself to not ride the lines. Not that I am always not up to them, but I do try to voluntarily pull back every now and again, and especially during the stressful times.

One last thing, I would suggest not taking Bobbinos advice here. I believe that while technically it may be fair, please please do not attempt this. I would put up hard cash that doing something like that will come back real hard on you. If that is the way she has typically been, that is who you accepted and married. Don't go rocking the boat on this. Her lack of feminine attire is not a reason to dress in of itself, there is no justification by how SHE dresses.
Best wishes.

[Teresa]

Erin,
I guess your blow up is something most of us dread ! It takes possibly years to make head way and get to a workable situation and for some reason it all goes wrong !
Your wife says she doesn't need therapy, she's not the one that needs fixing, but something has snapped and perhaps she does need a session to sort things through !
I found myself in the same boat, my wife refused to attend therapy with me ! In the back of mind I can't help thinking perhaps they're worried they might be told something they choose not to hear !

I'm glad to say my wife still dresses feminine, If she started to go frumpy on me I would ask if it was reaction to my dressing and try and persuade her that I'm not competeing with her !
I really hope you can get it together again and pick up where you left off so you can get you life back in order.

[Julie Denier]

So sorry for this turn of events. Dressing is not a subject for debate in my marriage either, which is why I do it secretly. Hate that it has to be this way, but, oh, well ...

[Lidea]

I am afraid this post will put me on the naughty chair, but really.... do you guys hear yourselves???

Will only add YOU must decide & live whatever it takes to be comfortable in YOUR life.

Now that is selfish, isn't it. As one of my favourites (Emi) always says, you are foremost husband, and then crossdresser. I realise it is about compromises, but to say... whatever it takes...... ouch

This does not mean you can always get her to go your way. I now fell that for some women, not wanting CDing in their husband may be intrinsic too (or close to intrinsic), as their emotional stimulation is tied to physical appearance. Not wanting CDing in their husband may be in some way similar to that a heterosexual man would not want to date a man. .

I can agree to this. Why are some of you just too blind to see this???

Seems like she wants her way and you can't have yours. A power play indeed and she want to control you.
I would tell her why don't you leave?
If she won't go to the therapist with you it throws up a red flag to me.
1. She doesn't love you or care about you.
2.Your happiness means nothing to her.
3.She is blaming you for her shortcomings.
.

Well, who married who??? He married her and knew what he gets, she married him, not knowing everything... unless they were open about it....
I went with my husband to therapy, but going to therapy as an unsupportive wife, trying to cling to the idea of the man she married... well it ends up feeling bullied by the "CD-therapist" team... so that is why I won't go to therapy again.

There must be something else happening in your life beside her looks..........

Over the years I've read too much crap on this board that the wife is suppose to bend to the husband's cross dressing desires. It is shoved in her face! Take it or leave it! I've always have respected my wife's views. Yes, it is DADT. And, that includes the visual trappings of cross dressing.

I suspect there is a second side to the issues in your marriage. You definitely have stated how much "girlie" you are than she. Yes, I suggest marital therapy for both of you, and, individual therapy for both of you. Of course, you'll relish the thoughts the therapist will tell your wife that you are who you are. But, will there be an accommodation for who you wife is? I suspect from your post that is not on your agenda.

Hats of to you.... at least not all of you are so selfish.

Its time to point out how disappointed you are in her MALE attire and MALE habits of watching NFL etc, Short hair to boot.
If she want to be alpha male then there is no room for 2 alpha males, and you will to take the feminine roll to balance out the house.
Good luck and keep those panties waving high
Bobbi

Oh my goodness!!!! Are you serious, or are you just being sarcastic?
What a foolish comment...
So if my husband gets too girly, then I have to put on some male attire to balance out the house ????

I experienced this first hand... if I don't go all girly, my husband feels that I don't make use of my oppertunity as a gg, and it makes him want to do that instead.
When I do go all girly, my husband gets 'jealous' and wants to do it even more...
Your urges for dressing can not be blamed on your wife's dressing and habits.

I just got a divorce. I would have done anything to prevent that, including giving it all up. I was WAY out there. Looking back I can see that I made a lot of mistakes , pushed too far

Why can you not see this earlier, with the early warning signs... read Gendermutt again.... always living on the line, and then very upset and hurt when you fall off that line....

We CD's often have a tendency to ride the line of whatever limits or agreements we make with our S/O's. I think that that in itself can be a stress for them at times, because we are always right there on the line, and they are waiting for us to either attempt to move the line, or step over it. I sometimes remind myself to not ride the lines. Not that I am always not up to them, but I do try to voluntarily pull back every now and again, and especially during the stressful times.

One last thing, I would suggest not taking Bobbinos advice here. I believe that while technically it may be fair, please please do not attempt this. I would put up hard cash that doing something like that will come back real hard on you. If that is the way she has typically been, that is who you accepted and married. Don't go rocking the boat on this. Her lack of feminine attire is not a reason to dress in of itself, there is no justification by how SHE dresses.
Best wishes.

Thank you for speaking some sense here. Another husband that actually gets it. As WAH and wise Jennifer said.... be objective, what did you do to upset her?

I know us GG’s can sometimes make it hard for you men, but neither did we choose it. If we wanted to be with a women, we would have married a woman....
So please, be true to yourself and be the man that you said you would be when you married a girl.
Thank you for the men (like mine too) who actually get it and who try to put their wives and families first.

[trisha kobichenko]

seems it is always OK for GG to effect male behavior, jeans, football jerseys, no makeup, just a tomboy, etc.,....but not OK for a TG to effect female behavior, i.e. clothes, mannerisms, fashion interests, grooming etc. Hardly seems fair. Seems as though girls can enjoy the best of both worlds with no consequence, while males suffer the consequence of any gender variance. Hmm....
Hugs,
Trish

[Badwolf]

The "fix it" attitude is something I've taken issue with before on these forums and is the biggest issue that is a clear divider in between tolerance and even minor acceptance.

She needs to understand what therapy is for. Her behavior is not that of a person making a calm rational decision. While you may need some time with a therapist, it sounds like she needs some as well.

None of this means she doesn't have a right to her own feelings, or that even your relationship will be fixed just by her going. She might just figure out how to end this more calmly. You really never know how people are going to react until they do, as the OP already demonstrates.

[sometimes_miss]

You can't fix what not broke, the therapist will or should help you understand this side of you, that is why your wife must go with, you so she can learn that there is nothing wrong with you, she might find out something about her self, and that is the problem.

See, that's just it. There's nothing wrong with either him or her. It's a simple matter of what we're attracted to, and you can't change that. You can learn to accept stuff, but what's bothering most women about us is that it's a sexual turn off for them to observe a man behaving/dressing as a female (and once they've seen it, often they can't get it out of their heads). And in most cases, they didn't find out about it until after they were married to us. So they feel we cheated them out of having the normal masculine male husband that they worked so hard to 'catch', and are now stuck with something less than what they bargained for. So she gets three emotions at the same time; disappointment, sadness, and anger.
I don't know the answer; my own marriage fell apart from my wife discovering that I was a crossdresser. We had been going to therapy, sort of making some progress or at least not getting further apart, until my wife started going to support groups that fed her all kinds of nightmare ideas about me being gay or eventually transitioning to TS. Once those other women got it into her mind, nothing I could do would change how she felt, she just wanted out.
My only suggestion would be to offer some consolation to her of some sort; take her out more, take her dancing if she likes that and if you don't know how then take her to dancing school. Give her more reasons to want you again; take a class on massage, and give her a massage OFTEN. When you leave the house, kiss her, and linger a bit, hug her and hold her close for at least a minute or so to make her feel that you'll really miss her, and do this every time you go to work or out with the boys. Same when you come home; treat her like you haven't seen her for a year. Once a week, bring her flowers or candy on the way home from work. Remember little things she mentions that she likes, and get them for her (excuse yourself if necessary to write it down in your phone notes when you're out shopping). In short, do everything you can to make her life wonderful. It doesn't really take that much. Vacuum the house for her. Takes all of maybe 15 minutes once a week, but it will make a tremendous impact. Going to the kitchen for a beer? Wash whatever's in the sink. Oh, buy a heated toilet seat or a japanese toilet with all the toys. Do the laundry. When she's cold, don't give her a blanket, give her yourself and a blanket. Treat her like a princess. Let her know how much you care.

It might seem like a lot of work. But it's worth a shot. Because the only other option is your right hand for the rest of your life.