I've been thinking about this post for a while now. Some new things have come to mind. While pondering how to express them, others have touched upon some of my thoughts.

Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ
The social order had to be protected...

But if a straight man expresses a feminine behavior - many women, indeed many people, simply completely go out of their minds about this. At best this is sexism, at worst, it's transphobia.
(I am taking a little liberty to dissect some of Paula Q's reply because she may have shed light on much of this discourse. I am giving her full credit for her original words and I am not implying these were her intentions. This is just my observation.)
Hmmm... Maybe you've just unconsiously qualified exactly what non accepting wives/SOs are thinking. Are these people (our non accepting wives and SOs) phobic of us not "maintaining social order?" Are they putting DADT restrictions or worse, ending the relationships as a way to "throw" us out of the house because we are NOT "wearing pants," as the women before Women's Lib of the '70s risked being treated if they DID wear pants? If they are, isn't it curious how they have taken a "female chauvinistic" stance in response to this challenge to the current social norm?(Towards the phobic masses. The shoe is on the other foot now, don't like it so much do ya!--Sorry, I digress...)

Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ
A lot of these attitudes are internalized by members here. Many of us here feel like we are messed up - that there is something profoundly wrong with us.
To be perfectly clean, I am nonsuicidal but I sure do internalize these discomforts. I regularly express to my wife that my CDing knowingly hurts our relationship. "I'm sorry that I'm broken." I say to her. This is usually followed with an eyeroll from her or a,"Knock it off!" but it is how I feel.


Quote Originally Posted by PaulaQ
...I salute the cis women here who are able to love the person they are with, in spite of their gender variance. You are rare, and special women, indeed.
Indeed. I agree with this last statement but this "salute" seems like the possible start of a surrender of power. (Uh-oh! Did I just rock the boat again?)

Directed to Paula Q. I thank you for so regularly being a bridge to the trans-view. It is sometimes similar to a CD view (in comparison to "straight" GG and GM views) but often a totally seporate viewpoint that many of have not seen. As we all know, the views here are a varied spectrum and it is difficult to get us to agree on much. As a comparative to the Women's Lib of the '70s, looking back, there were many common views. After a bit of organization, the goals were set, plans made and many positive things came from it. For us, it seems like herding cats. There are too many wishes and wants, little commonality and we fight with eachother so often it is unsettling.

Great thread,
-E