Bruce Jenner caused me turmoil

[PaulaQ]

I can understand one time, maybe two, but three?

Why would that be odd? Bruce may well still really like women. We don't all turn straight once we start HRT. In fact it's not clear that HRT affects our sexual orientation at all. (It's reported to happen maybe 1/3 of the time, but it isn't clear that it is the hormones as opposed to finally being honest with ourselves that does it. We don't know.) And lots of people (not just trans) have multiple marriages.

Also, many of us marry, hoping it will "cure" us of these feelings.

[Mark/Rebecca]

I never really thought much of the Kadashian clan either way, but those girls make their living off of the drama they create, and they kept that very private. Even Kris didn't weaponize it during the divorce. I certainly have a lot more respect for those girls. They seem much more human and likeable.

[Lorileah]

What strikes me as odd is that he was married three times!

I can understand one time, maybe two, but three?

I see we haven't done a good enough job explaining sexuality vs gender identity. If we could somehow convince the SOs and GGs here that the majority of time the TG's desires in sexual matters doesn't change. Even having the physical parts doesn't direct who you love.

So how do we explain this that makes sense? If you like women, you will likely always like women. The hormones, the clothes the actions doesn't change that. This isn't just for the GGs here, convincing younger TGs that they don't have to switch is just as hard because we are educated from a young age that A goes into B. This has been a recent area of discussion for me. I have been asked twice this week if I want a man now. Hard for me to answer because that was never a question in my mind. I am attracted to either BUT I prefer women. Short answer is "Who ever I fall in love with". But that is meI have felt the same since I had feelings in sex at all. Since the majority (we have done polls in the past) of the members here prefer heterosexual male to female relations, that is most likely to stay the same IFthey transition(and that is UNLIKELY).

The top two questions SO's ask their TG mates when they come out are: 1) are you gay. We have established here that 90% are not but I understand that when you are exposed to transgender in any fashion on TV, it appears that way. And considering the TG mate kept it to themselves, suggesting a lack of trust in the SO's ability to handle it, I think it may be an excellent question. However when they say "no" you can believe it usually. 2) do you want to transition? Most of the time this too will be "no". Many here are comfortable with the relations they have, thus keeping this part a secret out of fear of losing the best thing they ever had and have no desire to change genders. Usually they speak the truth there too.

Multiple marriages in the land of ElLay, seem to be the standard also. No one questioned the sexuality of Mickey Rooney, Zsa Zsa, Liz Taylor, Ava Gardner, Larry King, Richard Prior. People get married and often find they aren't compatible. The average American gets married twice. Jenner's three is just normal. If you watched the interview his ex's are not bitter over it. Also he was married three times...you don't know how many dates or affairs (if any) he had to ...women.

If this forum could do anything good in the world it would be to get rid of those two stereotypes.


Gender doesn't equal sexuality

[ReineD]

Gender doesn't equal sexuality

This is true, but it would be interesting if we could gather data about the percentage of transitioners who end up in relationships with men post-transition, after having been with women all their lives. Quite a few members in the TS section have done this after they were freed from their marriages to GGs. And I know of several still-married-to-GG TSs who have platonic relationships with their wives (they are emotionally bonded together), but the sexual attraction is no longer there in favor of an attraction to men, both in this forum and among the TSs that I know. There was also a feature article about transitioners in the New York Times magazine some months back. Several also said their tastes turned to men post-transition. And then there are transitioners who end up with other members of the community (whether CD or non-op TS). Maybe there is a larger percentage TGs (to total TGs) who are male attracted, compared to non-TGs?

[Dianne S]

This is true, but it would be interesting if we could gather data about the percentage of transitioners who end up in relationships with men post-transition, after having been with women all their lives.

My therapist gave me these statistics (which I think are entirely anecdotal, but anyway...) She says about 1/3 of post-transition previously-heterosexual TS's remain attracted to women, 1/3 switch to men and 1/3 are bisexual or asexual.

These stats seem reasonable to me based on the TS's I know. In my case, I definitely find men more attractive than women now, which is something I never expected to happen going into this.

[Alex!]

Interesting discussion. One of my friends transitioned a few years ago. She looks fantastic, but she confessed to being bummed that she has lost her libido and has become an asexual. She has no interest whatsoever in sex. She did not expect that outcome and apparently regrets the transition as a result. It is worth noting, since it appears to be a relatively rare complication of transitioning. I suspect this had much more to do with the hormone therapy, which occurs well before HRS, so if a loss of libido takes place, it should be possible to stop the treatment before going all the way; that is, if having a sex drive is more important than transitioning fully.

[Badtranny]

that is, if having a sex drive is more important than transitioning fully.

Yeah, if having sex as a man is more important than having the world recognize you for who you are, than I would probably advise against transitioning.

It's too damn hard to regret for something like that.

[sometimes_miss]

I think what the OP is saying is, without all the media hype, the subject wouldn't have come up and his wife would still be in a DADT blissful way of thinking.

Basically, either that we or our SO remain in denial; the whole, 'if I ignore it it will go away' theory of problems in life. Which of course never works indefinitely; eventually, doing that just bites us in the ass. Unless of course, you die first.

[Lorileah]

]. Maybe there is a larger percentage TGs (to total TGs) who are male attracted, compared to non-TGs?

From a personal point of view (and that is the only point of view any of us can present) I don't think the hormones change your desire for one sex over another. Maybe some it does but I feel that those feelings were either there all along or they cave to societal pressures (once again). After all we are told we need a mate and we are told it should be of the opposite gender.

So I will twist the post after yours statistics a bit. I think many start as bi (IMO...that is a normal state anyway) and are able to slide into the expected life. However, finding a mate, of either gender, is difficult during and maybe after transitioning . What I say is I am in a limbo. Gay men don't want to date me because I am not a man. Lesbians won't because i am not a woman. Straight men fear I am contagious and the majority of women fear the unknown as the OP's wife does.

[ReineD]

What I say is I am in a limbo. Gay men don't want to date me because I am not a man. Lesbians won't because i am not a woman. Straight men fear I am contagious and the majority of women fear the unknown as the OP's wife does.

Yes. This seems to be a universal quandary.

There are some transitioners who find partners, but the dating pool is much slimmer and I dare say it is even more difficult after a certain age. This might be why some people choose to not transition? They don't want to end up alone?

And then there are the lucky few who end up staying in their relationships post-transition. Maybe having an accepting partner helps with the decision to transition for some people, even if sex lives with their SOs change?

[Kaitlyn Michele]

if you are "choosing" ANYTHING vs comparing it to transition, you probably shouldn't transition.

You can do a chart...

Transition
PROS
You survive and get to live what
feels like an authentic life

CONS
Everything else

maybe a bit of hyperbole but you get the point..

and to add to the stats..my "attraction" to women was totally in my mind...making everything "right" cleared all that up quick..
one twist is that SOCIALLY i can't imagine being with a guy...ewwwww...LOL....so in my mind its always a faceless big strong man with me and when i've been with guys i found myself more focused on me than on him.
i don't analyze it i just do it..

lots of cd's go through this whole sexuality screw thing......if you are fantasizing you are the girl to BigO then you are on this list..if you are "attracted to guys but only when dressed" you are on this list

[Alex!]

Bruce Jenner's story is but a small step in a very long line of steps taken in what is a civil rights matter. Many more steps are required before societies around the world mature enough to see past bigotry and hostility. I fear that Jenner's experience will turn into a circus given his background and the desire for teevee channels to benefit financially from what should otherwise be a private matter. On the other hand, perhaps it will unfold with at least some dignity, and the public will learn something about gender, sexuality, and the difference between the two.

Many positive steps have already taken place for the LGB part of LGBT in several countries already. This can only be seen as helpful for the T part, in my opinion...

[ReineD]

SOCIALLY i can't imagine being with a guy...ewwwww...LOL....so in my mind its always a faceless big strong man with me and when i've been with guys i found myself more focused on me than on him.
i don't analyze it i just do it..

This could be problematic if you want to build a lasting relationship. He could feel used or objectified.

[Sara Jessica]

Two points, I guess this is as good of a place to put them as any...

1) RE: Sexuality (the tangent of late). This makes me think of a dearly departed friend who was self-avowed hetero but confided in me that she feared being alone and as such, he was holding her options wide open. There was even an ever-so-slight giddiness that came about her at this prospect but I think that was just her femininity shining through rather than a true expression of where her sexual orientation might have been heading had she not passed away.

Did hormones affect her to somehow twist her orientation? I will never know.

2) RE: Bruce (subtitled "how people who should know better just don't get it" -or- "maybe it really is THAT hard to wrap your head around this thing of ours")...I was out the other day and ran into a gentleman I know decently well who happens to be gay. He couldn't wait to talk to me after seeing the Bruce interview but what came out was his absolute bewilderment as to why Bruce would make such a move. He said "I just don't get it" to which I replied "what is there not to get? You are looking at the same exact situation???" to which he replied "he is OLD, he isn't shaped like "you"...why would he do this?"

Sigh.

This doesn't choose us based on how we might look or how we're shaped. Age is irrelevant as well.

Is it really that hard? I guess it is.

[Kaitlyn Michele]

This could be problematic if you want to build a lasting relationship. He could feel used or objectified.

Don't I know it!!!

Hey i got my issues!!! the social part is surprisingly difficult for me but i am learning more and more to just relax and let it happen socially..

being "present" in the moment sexually has never been something i experienced so its difficult to relax there too sometimes...even when i focus on my partner i haven't really been there for them...

in my experience there are just as many ts women that like women as men... and i do think sometimes we stick with each other whether that's an actual sexual attraction or whether its just a desire to be truly understood...our experience is so outside most guys and gals that no matter what its hard to feel truly known....that may be all about my own internal thoughts and issues but i see way too many ts ts or ts tg couples to not notice its a "thing"...

[Angiemead12]

Bruce coming out definitely rocked my world, my wife and I can totally relate to whats been shown so far and how the things have fallen into place. I wonder what will happen to the rest of us when his documentary comes out in full force! I for one am thinking if I am ready to go through this chaos of our mind, all I know is I broke down hard in front of my wife a week after the show, anxiety got the better of me and my brain was telling me that I can't leave this earth as a man. So we have now come up with a plan and we will see if things fall into place.