It's easier to push someone away or divorce than disclose what might haunt you socially the rest of your life.
I was threatened with that after my divorce before I remarried. Yes, she had pictures for proof. So no, I didn't want to tell anyone again. Trust issue I guess.
Plus, the CD thing will go away if you ignore it right? Didn't work for me.
No wonder your signature includes a House quote. :DOriginally Posted by Katey888
Besides, I agree with you. Marriages are about more than the way we present ourselves. And if marriages were to break every time one of the components lies, the divorce rate would be 110% (percentage is correct, it's used by NBA and NFL players all the time)
When I met my current wife, CDing wasn't part of my life, so there wasn't anything to discuss or disclose.
It was the early 1980s
In the 1970s I'd been through all sorts of "over the edge" experiences and CDing was just one of several that came with having an exploring mind. Part of that was my first marriage - we explored lots and and even went out several times dressed as sisters, but at the time it was just a gas - something outrageous to do. We explored lots of things to challenge conventional norms, and also were heavily into mind bending substances. I reformed looking for a different direction, really just looking for a life direction, and we split. Very amicably as we realised we had different paths to follow.
It was a number of years after meeting my current partner that the CDing came back. We had kids by then. She is from a very different background and not the adventurous sort at all.
In some ways I would love to "come clean" - there are a lot of old secrets I've been able to share with her, but always at what I have felt was the right time, when she has said something to make me think she would be accepting - I haven't always been right however, but we've got over it as it was something in the past.
CDing has not yet felt like the "right time". It may well never be. So I stay in the closet.
Why?
Well it really has to do with protecting someone else's feelings. I'd really like to think that if I found the right time, then we could share it, and all would be Hunky Dory .
But what if I am wrong? Well, we've been together for over 30 years and she has her whole life invested in a relationship. What if it was something she just couldn't handle? Is my need really that important? Can I actually manage to suppress the feelings for the greater good?
Who knows? Certainly not the people here who seem to claim that being in the closet is morally wrong. The risk in coming out is that I make someone who has been a life partner very unhappy. Do I want to take that risk? Or is it better for me to have to suppress something and suffer myself?
Folks, there are no right and wrong answers - we all have our own circumstances and as they say, you can't put the genie back in the bottle.
Sharing with your SO is a decision that each individual must make for themselves. And PLEASE for those who have shared successfully, don't pose as saints whose way is the only true path. Because the risk in coming out is to cause a lot of pain for someone you may actually care about. There is a balance between a desire for openness and a desire for self. Yes, we only have one life to live, but so does our SO. And they may not want an unhappy ending.
So I only get to enjoy dressing when I feel it is safe and I'm not going to cause hurt (and I really do indulge at those times). Is there a risk of causing hurt through accidental discovery? Yes. But is it a bigger hurt risk than disclosing?
.
No right and no wrong. Please don't judge those of us who remain closeted. We have our reasons and they may just be very valid. And very loving.
Reading comprehension is obviously a lost art!
Jeank
thanks for your candid and wise reply and showing that in some instances non-disclosure is an act of caring - ultimately even with our closest soul mates we have some distinct and individual traits - we are all unique
Fiona
Last edited by Katey888; 01-29-2016 at 05:42 AM. Reason: Unnecessary to requote entire post referred to
I knew who I was and what I enjoyed doing BEFORE I met my current wife.
I told her within a week of meeting her about my crossdressing.
I figured either she would accept me for who I am, or she would leave. We have been together for 14 1/2 years and married for 12 1/2 years. I never wanted it to be a surprise for her later.
"hi! you're beautiful! and before i say anymore and to avoid either of us wasting our precious time, i have to tell you i like dressing like a woman. So if you find my honesty disturbing it's ok to look the other way and i'll leave you alone to this starry night."
23 years 2 kids and so many wonderfully intense loving moments later and we are happier than ever.
that's how i found my tall blonde Scandinavian love of my life.
i made a firm decision early on to ignore most social norms that unfairly conflicted with my innate desire to reveal truth at all costs and have found society slowly coming around to my way of thinking. i cant understand why people decide to get together whilst hiding their true self unless you believe this is just a read thru. i know life can be hard but you must bend it to your will less it breaks you.
Laurana, I tend to agree with you. I found nothing offensive in your observations. I have personally adhered pretty closely to to these points. I have also found that the best therapist is an honest exchange between the 2 people involved. And for personal issue honsety with a mirror. Outsiders are not vested that is true but I aint in the habit of trusting anyone but me or my wife with our business personal or financial. I learned long ago everyone has advise and opinions and just like porta-potties some stink worse than others and none are my own.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]Fran
It's worth something just being around to Fuss!
Why do we lie to our spouses? I don't think most of us start out with that intention. Speaking only for myself--although I suspect that many others have an experience like my first marriage--I was totally enthralled by the woman I was planning to marry, and although I had a long history of crossdressing, I thought that my marriage would be the end of the crossdressing. I expected that I would never be dishonest with her about anything (except by omitting any discussion of what I felt was a shameful part of my past). But then things happen: conflicts and difficulties arise, and neither she nor I dealt with them as effectively as we should have. And little by little, I toyed with some old ways of finding pleasure and satisfaction. Influenced by my own long history of shame about my crossdressing, I was certain that my wife would not respond well to finding out about my it. So little by little, and more and more, I lied. To all of my failures in this regard--the things that I did that I shouldn't have done, and the things that I failed to do that I should have done--I plead guilty. My second marriage was different. The failure of my first marriage, which was primarily because of my crossdressing and my dishonesty about it, was a searing emotional experience for me. That pain helped me to make a commitment that I could actually keep in my second marriage. I never dressed up again, even though the fantasies never stopped. I know that for many, that's not a viable approach; we're all different. I'm just trying to respond to the original question about lying and why I did such a destructive thing.
honey i ve got suntun to tell you !!!
what did you forget to take out the trash again….
no, no, no ,no. I'm a crossdresser,….
oh i was just reading in crossdresser daily, article about the caitlyn affect…what kind of crossdresser are you…
huh, i dunno, their are different kinds ????
why yes dear many, many, are you just a crossdresser, crossdresser, or you just do it cause the clothes feel good, or maybe a fetish crossdresser cause you like feeling sexy and get a little too excited, or like a drag dresser to entertain.....
well i thin I'm just a normal crossdresser, not one or those weird or gross ones ???
are you sure, you may be one of those crossdressers that are not gay but fantasize about being with another man while dressed…could it be that….or maybe, maybe just maybe your gender fluid and want to be both a man and a women, is that it ???
well I'm kinda not too sure now !!
how about pansexual or bisexual, as long as you present the way your feeling that day….
absolutely not, not that ….. but maybe if arrrghhh how do i figure this out i just came to terms that I'm a crossdresser, now I'm second guessing, i feel like i in denial again…
are you one of those crossdressers that is two years from having a sex change…….?
NOT that definitely not that…its just dressing, just clothes….
I've read it happens, are you sure, you know that technically your transgender, its an umbrella term….
NO there is NO way I'm transgender, I'm a man that dresses in women's clothes that all !!!! its perfectly normal, nothing odd about it at all !!!
then you want a DADT relationship, we wont talk about it and you'll assume your free to dive into the pink fog and assume you can do whatever you want because now i know about the dressing and thats the way i think i can best deal with it.
you know about the pink fog ?? ok if thats what you want, it sure beats a divorce, losing my job, finding out who my real friends and family are…..feeling more guilt and shame than i ever did maybe even contemplating ending it all…….yea ok lets go with DADT…..
are you kidding me….wait while you join a forum, post suggestive pictures of yourself put other crossdresser down cause they don't do it right, hang around for two years while you decide how far you go down the spectrum only to find out you knew you wanted to be a women your whole life and could only decide after spending our savings on therapy and buying thousands on girly bits only to decide to go on HRT and find a highly recommended surgeon….do you think i have that kind of patience….
maybe i should have thought this out more…
yea maybe you should have thought this out better, you thought it was going to be easy…blah blah blah…look I'm wearing panties and heels, pretty neat huh…. hears my attorneys card…..im taking the house car and the kids….
yep its easy to judge someone you not looking directly in the eye, I've always believed this is NOT a one size fits all community, can you really judge someone before you walk a mile in they're heels,
your morals and philosophy may differ but it gives you no right to judge someone if there beliefs are not in line with yours,
rant over
....Mykell
i dressed like a girl and i liked it!crossdressing...theirs an app for that
First of all I want to state my post does not address people who are already married.
If you are getting into a serious relationship with someone then I believe you should disclose the fact the you are cd/tg. Actually the sooner you disclose the better. As we have seen on this board, a lot of problems have been caused because of non disclosure before marriage.
As to the point that if you disclose she will out you to everybody in the community. If you have this low level of trust in a person then you should definitely not get into a relationship with that person. Why get into a relationship with someone you have doubts about.
It seems a lot of people get into a relationship thinking that they will stop dressing en femme (cold turkey) and never do it again. This seems to me to be a very dangerous gamble. People have quit to only see the desire come back a year, 10 years or 20 years later. If you are thinking of persuing this path, then you should definitely get counseling, and I would add someone who understands gender issues.
For a lot of us being cd/tg/ts is just part of who we are. If it is part of who you are, is it worth sacrificing who you are for a relationship. Also if it is a major part of who you are then being able to suddenly quit permanently is not likely to be successful over the long term.
For me I have decided that I am not going to sacrifice who I am just so i can have a relationship. There is just no one on this earth worth that kind of sacrifice. I have come to the conclusion that having a committed relationship is not going to be a part of my future. Even if a partner initially is accepting, that is no guarantee that they will continue to be accepting. Often times someone can be accepting in the beginning because they want to keep the relationship alive as much as you do, but then you get married and they become non accepting.
The fact is that in life we cannot have it all. Often, sacrifices have to be made. So it comes down to priorities, and I think my priority is to be true to myself. If I were to sacrifice my tg/ts self then I would be miserable and very unhappy. This is just not a healthy way to live.
To marry someone else without disclosure is potentially subjecting someone else to a life they did not sign up for. To me it is really selfish to not disclose.
If you decide to get into a relationship with someone and marry them, then I think it would be best to be fully out to everyone. Often times it seems a spouse becomes less accepting because they are worried about what family, friends, acquaintances and neighbors will think. Being fully out you eliminate this from becoming an issue. Also, you need to be dressed en femme in front of them often and also while out in public with them, so you can determine how truly accepting they are.
In conclusion, I have to be who I am, and I cannot sacrifice this for a relationship. Making this sacrifice would not be good for me or the person I would potentially be entering into a lifetime relationship with. Also disclosure which can be bad for the short term in losing a relationship will be great for the long term when you avoid a messy split up and divorce.
I don't believe it is as simple as saying the CD is bad for lying/hiding it from your SO.
I think most of us agree that is is better to tell the difficult truth to our SO then hide it and hope they wont find out, but to toss all CDs who have some type of fear or anxiety to tell their SO into a "you're a lair and deserve what you get" is inaccurate for all and a bit too extreme a position in my opinion.
There are many factors that would prevent a CD from disclosing such an intimate detail so openly or even easily... Just think about society... there are still laws in the USA that allow the local government to toss CDs into jail just for being dressed and it wasn't that long ago, in our life times, that this was illegal in most states... Also consider the social ramifications for young CDs/TGs being thrown out and homeless because family/community rejection (especially in the more conservative/religious groups) not to mention the violence against CDs that still takes place to this very day. Add all of this on top of potential job loss and social embarrassment if an SO decides to "punish" you for sharing this intimate detail with them. Some CDs dind't even know what they had of if something was wrong with them or even if it was something they could possible control/remove from our lives... to expect a CD to know exactly why they are doing it and to be sure they disclose it to their SO when they may not even know what it is themselves!? Heck, the science behind TG and CD is still very early, how can a CD be expected to know if this was something they could not even "cure" and lead a "normal" life with their SO? This is just to tip of the iceberg. If you are one who is not capable of even considering these as potential risks to the CD then it is just sad. To have other CDs come down on those who fear risking these types of results... It's just sad.
If society was much more progressive and accepting of CDs/TGs than it would be a different story but to claim a CD "deserves" some sort of punishment for protecting their very life is a bridge too far in my opinion... we need to be more considerate of each other and hear out why a CD chooses to keep it a secrete instead of standing in an ivory tower of personal SO acceptance and pointing the fingers at other CDs who are in very different and potential dangerous situations.
So before anyone drops scorn on CDs/TGs for not disclosing all details of their life to an SO, please consider some of these stats and stories we see very often and try to be more understanding/open to why som CDs/TGs fear telling their SOs... Sure we all agree it is fair, right and proper for the SO to know so they can make a decision that is right for them but also know they too are a product of society, which can be potentially dangerous to us in many ways:
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/news/t...nder-violence/
http://www.transequality.org/issues/...imination-laws
http://americablog.com/2012/11/advic...r-husband.html
http://www.pbs.org/newshour/updates/...sing-laws-u-s/
Let's try to be more compassionate for each other and try to hear why some CDs choose to keep it a secret from their SOs and possible offer sound advice depending on their circumstance and not toss them to the side... society does that enough already.
Last edited by shawnsheila; 01-28-2016 at 10:40 PM.
It's not a lie if no one asks.
My wife made a statement two weeks ago " you probably have dresses hidden someplace" I said ya a nice wedding dress.
She never asked if I had dresses hidden.
Well I bought three dresses this week and since she didn't tell me she bought Burger King I feel I don't have to tell her about the dresses.
"This is ME" I am not CRAZY, I'm just a GUY who likes dresses!
Since allot of men dress up in woman's clothing that makes it a manly thing to do!
Much more fun than fishing.
I do construction like house building and I love CD-ing, what's the difference?
I told my wife while we were still dating. She accepted and supported my cross dressing for the 40 years of our marriage. She is now in heaven, God bless her soul. I am now hoping to find another to share my life with. I intend to disclose my predilection for wearing woman's clothes in any relationship that gets serious. I'm too old to beat around the bush with this issue.
That only comes close to applying if the relationship is healthy. Otherwise, all bets are off.
Following advice from regulated professionals (including medical advice) routinely gets me into trouble unless I have arms-length proof of necessity and correctness.
Well we can't go back and redo whatever we did. The pain in this thread staggers me. I've told my story here before but I think it's relevant again in this thread.
In my first marriage there wasn't much to disclose, she knew I liked lingerie, and 30 years and three kids later when it all came unstuck, my steadily growing and stealthy cd habit became the "problem" but we both knew it was just the tip of the iceberg, one of many many issues that had come to divide us. We had grown apart, we each had run out of sympathy for the other's problems, we divorced, messily and expensively and tediously.
Burned to the quick, aching and despairing, I resolved that my transvestism could not be the issue ever again, it was too close to my core. I started going out pretty in NYC two or three days a week, looking for events, bars, classes, meet ups where I might find friendship and acceptance. A year into that (2002), dressed as best I could in those days, I accepted an acquaintances' casual invitation to a cocktail party and there met a woman who found me interesting, who became my girlfriend, and who in 2010 became my dArling wife. Out from the start, no secrets. All in.
My bet was, if I keep it a secret, I'm hoping to win the lottery, but I understand the math only too well. But if I am out with it, then I am treating the women I meet as adults who can make their own judgements, provided they have full information. I get the issue of truth and trust off the table in the first place, it's just static anyway. And guess what, I won.
Doors close, doors open. Nothing ventured, nothing gained. I dunno.
Lying is bad, ummkay...
It only leads to distress and woe. It WILL come out sooner or later.
If you are hiding that big of a truth from your partner, are they really your partner?
Not to contribute to lawyer's fees or anything, but jeez.. What did the poet say?
- MMTo thine own self be true, and it must follow, as the night the day, thou canst not then be false to any man.
- William Shakespeare
[SIZE=1]- - - Updated - - -[/SIZE]
Yes, we are. If you were an axe-murderer, hiding that would also be an 'act of caring'. After all, you don't want to spook the Missus, eh?
Cripes, people. Stop making excuses for keeping it hidden. You are only going to hurt them anyway when it all spills out of your closet... and it will spill out eventually.
BE YOURSELF
I heard the same excuses from closeted gay folks back in the day. It wasn't any better then. It didn't help then either. It still blew things up when it came out.
The destructive force is only making way for the creative one that follows. (Kali - Hinduism)
/love you anyway
- MM
Last edited by mechamoose; 01-29-2016 at 12:56 AM. Reason: Sorry Mods.. I'm trying to merge these, 'edit' isn't doing it. It only brings up the last one.
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
Amazing, all the people on this thread who assume that what they think's true for themselves, MUST be true for all other people. That would be like me declaring that:
Not a single crossdresser was born that way. I know, because I wasn't. So it's not possible.
Or even better, "As oranges develop that great, sweet orange taste, they develop a lovely orange color. It's true for oranges, so it must be true for everything". So, if I put on that self tanning lotion, and I start to turn orange, I, too, will have a sweet, orange flavor'.
Or, how about nose picking? Can anyone here say that they have absolutely NEVER put a finger past the opening in their nostril for any reason? EVER? OK. Now go put a sign on your car telling everyone that you are a nose picker. After all, you did it once when there was a whistling snot you couldn't blow out, right? Tell the world. No qualifiers; no 'I only did it once', 'I only do it if something is obstructing my nostril'. Just tell the world that you are a nose picker. Gotta be honest, right? Tell everything you've ever done. Ever pee on a tree? Tell that too, that you pee outdoors on trees. Doesn't matter if you haven't done it since you were a kid. You're a tree pee-er. Ever spit? Ever? Tell everyone that you like to spit. Ever think about what it would be like to give oral to a guy? Tell everyone that you think about male male oral sex. Remember, no qualifiers, you think about homosexual sex, doesn't matter if you only thought about it once when you were 15 and confused. Everything you did 40 years ago defines who you are today. Everything. Now go write your biography, and don't leave out anything. It's going to be bigger than an encyclopedia.
The amount of nonsense I read here sometimes astounds me.
We didn't tell them because to us, it no longer had anything to do with who we were at that point in our lives, or who we would be for the rest of our lives. What is so hard to understand about that?
Last edited by sometimes_miss; 01-29-2016 at 01:06 AM. Reason: some thoughts.....
Some causes of crossdressing you've probably never even considered: My TG biography at:http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...=1#post1490560
There's an addendum at post # 82 on that thread, too. It's about a ten minute read.
Why don't we understand our desire to dress, behave and feel like a girl? Because from childhood, boys are told that the worst possible thing we can be, is a sissy. This feeling is so ingrained into our psyche, that we will suppress any thoughts that connect us to being or wanting to be feminine, even to the point of creating separate personalities to assign those female feelings into.
What is true to you is true to YOU. Your truth does not effect what my world is like.
I say what I say based on MY life. My wild, odd, cross-gendered, poly-amorous, pagan-hippe life.
But that is what I have to say.. maybe that rings with people, maybe it doesn't. I may be criticized, I may be mocked. However, if that makes ONE life better then it was worth it.
<3
- MM
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
I never really lied to my wife. When we were dating I thought my crossdressing was in the past and needn't be brought up. Fast forward 10 years when I started dressing again. I slowly brought my desires to her attention. She wasn't all for it at first but figured it was just a passing fantasy. Fast forward another 16 years to today. She is totally ok with my dressing and is open to me someday fully transitioning. I don't think we would have ever got to this point if I had lied to her or hid it from her.
Never let a few facts destroy a great theory!
It seems it's only the ones who were lucky enough to tell and have the support are the holier than thou's who believe one size fits all, to come out with it regardless of consequences, because they seem to think "I'm alright Jill, as I'm now a special out and loud and proud professional CD'er which automatically gives me higher opinions over those losers still in the closet"..... Um, nah!
Why tell a new girlfriend before you even get to know her?, that to me sounds very foolhardy. She might turn out to be the worst most untrustful person to keep such a personal secret, and before you know it all her friends will know and possibly your friends and family, gossip is like a nasty spreading virus. Not every ex GG can be trusted to keep that secret. Not everyone's family and friends will be automatically accepting. Maybe the CD'er will be totally ostracised and labeled a pervert by many. Maybe their life will actually be made tougher rather than easier. So not everybody should be forced into being loud and proud about it just because it worked for others. One size does NOT fit all. It's arrogantly naive to assume it does. Sometimes honesty is not always the best policy.
I only plan telling her IF I know that she will be supportive and would never tell, otherwise I will keep it secret. And if we move in together, well that will be my conscious choice knowing she wouldn't be supportive if she knew, which means I will give it up for her. That would not be denial, it would be acceptance of the situation. What's wrong that that?
Last edited by Kimberley May; 01-29-2016 at 03:06 AM.
Gurlz they wanna have fu'hun. Oh gurlz just wanna have fu'hun x
Judy-Something.... Seeing as your wife didn't tell you she bought burger king,you didn't feel the need to tell her you bought 3 dresses. Are you for real????
The lies&the bs i hear on this site astounds me. I read this somewhere 'crossdressing is a selfish behaviour'. And it is. Seems to me many men don't give a toss about the wife/gf as long as they get their 'fix' by dressing as a woman.
Umm, no.
I'm not 'holier than thou', I'm a guy with two marriages under my belt, two poly relationships, several 'open' play partners, and a lot of broken things. I have experienced what will work and what won't. I'm just trying to be pragmatic and honest. This isn't a crusade (although you could rightfully hang that on me for some posts) I'm just trying to be direct. I have had the luxury of being able to be free with myself, and sometimes things -still- broke.
My message is more that 'honesty is the best policy'. If you need to hide that, well.. not much more I can say.
The more of us who were out there and didn't care, the less we would have to be afraid.
As far as the 'new girlfriend' idea.. why are you out in the world presenting as your genetic gender if that isn't who you are?
That is kind of my point.
BE GIRLY if that is who you are. Don't present in a way that is alien to how you feel. You know, wear some pink or purple. Show some 'soft'. Don't win that partner all butched up and then be surprised when they flip about your girl side.
You need to be yourself BEFORE you engage them that way, or else it isn't fair to THEM.
"To thine own self be true"
PM me if you want. This is all true and I stand by it.
- MM
Last edited by mechamoose; 01-29-2016 at 06:12 AM. Reason: Shakespere
- Madame Moose - on my way to Anne
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"I yam what I yam and tha's all what I yam." -- Popeye the Sailor
"If I am not for myself, who will be for me? And when I am for myself, what am 'I'? And if not now, when?" - Hillel the Elder
But my genetic gender is who I am too. I never said I wasn't. I'm perfectly happy being in drab guy mode too. I've had no identity issues with it and still don't. I guess this alter ego is to get away from things for a while. To be someone else. It has a strange calming effect on me I can't explain why. Maybe it's the feel of the softer fabrics, and feeling closer to femininity as I lacked female company for much of my life. Nothing really to do with wanting to change my genetics.
As I said before this isn't "a one size fits all" thing. Not every CD'er wants to change their genetic gender. I will only tell her if I find she will be understanding and accepting, otherwise I won't tell her and I'll give it up. Doing so isn't being in denial, it's just unselfish acceptance of a situation in consideration for her. As I said I've had no desire to change gender for real. I'm still very much quite emotionally attached to my meat and two veg, and women.
Gurlz they wanna have fu'hun. Oh gurlz just wanna have fu'hun x
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