Lies & SO

[susanmichelle]

I know, well rather read many stories where your significant other doesn?t get all the truth out of many others of us cross dressers or transgendered whatever the case might be. My question is, How do you all feel about the fact that many do omissions in talking to our spouses, girlfriends or just friends in general. Not telling all the facts or how far we really want to go say my wife knows I crossdress by shaving our legs wearing panties and hosiery etc but not know we want to wear skirts blouses, dresses. Doesn?t omitting these extra desires mainly pan out to be a lie in itself. I?ve always had the belief that omission in itself is a lie and have tried all my life to not omit things. I?ve had discussions with my spouses regarding the same matter of them omitting things from us in long term relationships. I hope I?m getting my point across. We all want to be straight up in our relationships with each other and most women really get bent out of shape when we?ve lied about our desires to dress in the first place. Lies are a real taboo in relationships especially marriage.

So what are your all?s thoughts on the omissions being lies as well? Sorry to be so long in attempting to get my point across.

[docrobbysherry]

I agree, Susan. DADT does NOT stand for Lie, Sneak, and Hide!

[Bea_]

My wife has been fairly up to date since my desire to wear panties started in my mid-fifties. And, as my desires to experiment further has developed, I?ve been a step or two behind about expressing them. My main reason for caution is that I typically prefer to experiment privately to see if any new style choices or androgynous/femme expressions are worth pursuing in front of her. She knows I?d like to experiment with makeup, but she has a deep reluctance. I don?t hide my thoughts but I may eventually experiment on my own.

Personally, I?d rather she know and have a right to refusal but I appreciate that she doesn?t hold it against me. Much better than outright DADT.

[Natalie5004]

Omitting facts are actual lies.

But, If you do not know where you are going, how can you answer correctly? I do not know or I very much doubt it is a true response, correct?

[candykowal]

I believe your assessments relies on the premise you wrote, We all want to be straight up in our relationships with each other...
I believe this is true ... when you don't have pre-existing issues with a spouse.
You can't say you want to be straight up when your dealing with mental issues, previous non trust issues, and issues based of relative influences.
The family dynamics of marriage is way too muddled.
This is clear by the number of divorces caused because of cross dressing spouses, who had a conscience, and let the genie out of the bottle!!
A lot of people live in marriages of "compromise" because...well, we LOVE each other even though we have faults.
DADT relationships keep secrets nicely wrapped in place where the other stays comfortable...sure, omitting facts, not speaking your mind, and little white lies are all part of human nature....so many people get there panties in a bunch because they see couples in a DADT relationship.
These people are sensitive to the rules of engagement in a marriage ... loving someone doesn't mean you cannot hide things they might not agree with...sometimes, it is how we get along...and how I have managed to be married for 27 years!

[Geena75]

If to omit is to lie, then I have been lying to the spouse for years, even if not counting the cross dressing. Mind you, I have always told her about anything of importance, but often omit details that would lead to misunderstanding. Case in point: Last summer she went to visit her sisters for a weekend. While at work, I got invited to a cookout at a friend's, a lady friend. I went, had a nice time, and went home. I told her all about that, but did not mention that I have found myself being a little attracted to this friend. Nothing ever has or will come of that feeling, so why bring it up? Likewise, there are details about her past relationships I might be curious about, but would not press her for details.

[Micki_Finn]

Omission itself is not necessarily a lie. If you ask the time and I fail to tell you the weather, am I lying? Where it becomes problematic is when the information being withheld is pertinent and relevant. But some things fall in a grey area and it’s easy to tell oneself “she already doesn’t want to know about the panties, so why bring up the skirts when she already doesn’t want to know about it.” You really have to assess both the relationship and the information being withheld.

[Stephanie47]

It depends. I am in a DADT marriage. My wife and I had "The Talk" circa 1983. Since then not a word. Her choice. Total ostrich. If she chooses to not be engaged at all, what am I suppose to do? She did not tell me to "stop." In fact when we had "The Talk" she told me it was alright with her if I found a support group. I looked. There was none at the time. Still none in my area. I choose not to push the issue as I have come to the conclusion to push cross dressing against her will is nothing short of spousal mental abuse. At the time of "The Talk" I had a small collection of lingerie. It fit is a large gift box in the bottom of my armoire. Now my wardrobe of clothes in stored in twenty plus Xerox boxes and some other boxes; wigs, hosiery, 162 dresses, 400 + slips, hundreds of panties, etc. Economics? None of this has been a budget buster. Kids went to college on our dime. The grandkids educations are fully funded for five years. If my wife wanted to resume talking, I am all ears.

If you're in a relationship where you have established boundaries and you're engaging in "creeping" or goings outside those boundaries, then you may have a problem.

[CharlotteCD]

I'm in DADT. If I have a day to myself, and my wife comes home and asks what I have been up to, am I lying if I say "I've played my guitar, done some housework, done some online shopping and generally chilled" and omit I put on makeup and did all of the above whilst dressed?

It's not lying to omit those things. It's playing by the rules of our relationship.

[Sandi Beech]

My wife wants nothing to do with it and the topic is not for discussion. So I could try talking about it or just wearing things in front of her which would be rubbing it in her face. I choose not to do that, and I have been married for 35 years. It is by no means ideal, but I think both of us would rather let sleeping dogs lie rather than bring up something which will not end well. After being married long enough, you learn what you can and can not get away with. Those who do not learn are divorced.

Sandi

[mbmeen12]

Did you or did you not borrow/take etc my ____________? "No, I did not" you answer!

If you did borrow/take _________. You are lying....

An omission is not lying if one, is not asked....

[DianeT]

I think everyone knows when one is lying. If you are withholding a piece of information that wasn't specifically asked but you know your wife would want to know (such as you cheating her), you are lying. It's simple as that. The lie can be white or a darker shade, but you very well know it is a lie and not just an omission.

[SaraLin]

Omitting facts are actual lies.

NONSENSE!!!

I haven't told you what side of the bed I sleep on. I haven't told you the name of my home town. I haven't told you my blood type. Etc. Etc. Etc.
These are all facts that I haven't told you. Am I therefore lying?
You haven't told me these things either, so I guess you're lying too - right?

Now - having said that, I do feel that it is best to share important information with certain people - especially someone in close personal relationships.
But there are times when it is specifically NOT called for. For example, in my case, my (partial) DADT situation means that my wife does NOT want to know or see when or if I dress beyond the agreed-upon boundaries of what she's willing to accept. She knows I do it, but not how, when, or how much. She doesn't WANT to know, and I don't tell her.

Is this lying to her?
Not in my book, it isn't. I'm respecting her feelings and honoring her wishes.

Besides, we're pretty much "glued at the hip" to each other these days, and opportunities to fully dress are essentially non-existent.

[Teresa]

Susan,
The sad fact is in a court of law people have gone to prison through the omission of facts , a lawyer only asks the questions he wants to hear answers to , are whatever is omitted lies or untold truths ?

So perhaps we could look at our situation from a different angle and call them untold truths , we only give the story we think suitable to paint the picture . OK that means your wife/partner is painting her own picture as she doesn't know all the facts .

Someone raised the comment that people only hear what they want to hear , in other words they bury their head in the sand at some point , that was what my wife chose to do .

[alwayshave]

When my wife asks "Do these jeans make my butt look big" and I say no, is it a lie that I don't say "it's your butt that makes your butt look big, not the jeans." Some omissions just keep the peace.

[Teresa]

Jami,
I'm not sure what the definition of a " White lie " is .

Sorry to sidetrack this thread slightly but our partners may pose a question like that but a CDer may ask , " Does my butt look big enough ?" " No dear you need more padding !!"

[GretchenM]

It seems to me that we are not robots that repeat all data. We are people, they are people, we are all people. And we all perceive reality differently. When asked a question you first interpret the question to determine what, in your mind, is being asked. Then you formulate an answer according to the interpretation. Thus, in formulating the answer we select from the available information that which, to us, is most relevant. Of course, whether we include everything or not is dependent on whether the question asked is formulated in a way that clearly identifies exactly what information is desired. There are lots of places where omission can creep in. There is nothing stopping the other person from asking more questions and starting the response cycle again.

It seems to me a lie includes an intent to deceive. Thus omission, unless intentional, cannot be a lie. Omission is often a matter of a failure to clearly ask or a failure in the interpretation of what was asked. Omission should not be considered as intentional until there is evidence that the omission is intentional in which case the omission can be CONSIDERED a lie even though it still might not be. That is what conversations are for - to further clarify and discuss aspects in a friendly manner so each party understands the other without accusations and attacks on credibility. Assumptions of intent are still just assumptions until the intent is proven.

There is no law that says you must reveal all if you reveal anything. Value judgements, sensitivity to what is hurtful even if true, and different interpretations of what is or is not relevant to the question can easily lead to what is viewed as omission when, in fact, that which was omitted was not considered important to the responder. Communication is a bumpy road. Answer to the best of your ability, followup with a question put to the questioner inquiring whether they have any other questions or concerns. And most of all answer all questions with at lest a friendly tone, i.e. don't get paranoid about questions. It is how we learn new things.

[kristi98]

My wife doesn't know I belong to this forum. I write things here I wouldn't want my wife to see. There are things in my past I have not told her (like all the people I had sex with before I married her). I don't feel guilty about it. If I was cheating on her then that's not good. That's where I draw the line.

I think it's highly likely my wife talks about personal things with others that she doesn't share with me. That's fine with me

She know all about my crossdressing and she is fine with it so there are no issues with that

[DanielleLee]

I still can't believe this topic still comes up... there are two answers you'll see. Yes or No. The debate will be going on in this forum after most of us are long gone.

Everyone here has to do what's right for them, when it comes to their own spouse. As Always Shave mentioned... sometimes our omissions keep the peace in a household/marriage. Omission is not a lie, but ultimately omissions are a bad thing. It becomes mentally toxic to the person doing the omitting.

[Star01]

So, imagine for a minute that we have all agreed that omission is a lie. Now what? We have all seen years of flagrant lying in politics with no consequences.

Now I will blow some minds. My wife in spite of not caring for my crossdressing is very liberal in her thinking. I actually have two DADT arrangements, one for my dressing and another due to her health condition that ended out intimate life. My obligation with both is to keep it to myself and that is her idea. If she dictates that we have a DADT for certain things how is my abiding by her wishes lying?

To take it a step further I do not believe in an angry sky daddy eager to punish my every human shortcoming. I believe that we are part of this grand cosmos that had the good fortune of evolving to have a consciousness. Aside from getting found out and having to do the dishes and vacuum for the next six months and say I am sorry a bunch of times I don?t see her leaving after 51 years. Fact is I am getting to old and tired to make an issue out of dressing or satisfying my libido so both of my DADT are not currently being used.

[Cheryl T]

The omissions and the secrecy were driving me crazy so at last I just went to her.
I said, "We have a problem". Not I, but We. We did have a problem as I was not being fully honest with her about what all this means to me. I was willing to face the fact that it might not go well, it might in fact end our relationship, but finding out and being honest was more important at the time. I needed my sanity back.

Little white lies ... lies of ommission ... are still lies and a relationship will not flourish in a bed of lies.

[Giselle(Oshawa)]

even though i came out to my wife almost 10 years ago, i still hide everything from her, i don't think i would recognise a lie if it punched me in the nose.

[Aunt Kelly]

Deliberate omission is, without question, a deception. A lie is the deliberate expression of a falsehood. The two are similar, but not the same. In a DADT situation, one partner has requested to not have to confront the reality of their partner's gender identity/expression. On the surface, that would seem to render any omission as forgivable, at worst.

[Star01]

Deliberate omission is, without question, a deception. A lie is the deliberate expression of a falsehood. The two are similar, but not the same. In a DADT situation, one partner has requested to not have to confront the reality of their partner's gender identity/expression. On the surface, that would seem to render any omission as forgivable, at worst.

Thanks for weighing in on this and clarifying. If one partner says they never want to see or know something about the other that to me is basically permission to go underground and continue. It's all a moot point in my case, my crossdressing world has crumbled around me. I have actually been considering purging and doing my best to avoid anything that would trigger an episode. Everything from my age to physical condition to my opportunity to shop or dress is dead in the water and I don't have any reliable transportation until I get vaccinated and get down to the dealer. I live in a rural area that is not open to this type of thing and my wife and I are together 24/7. I do not want to ruin the relationship and in spite of whatever I believe or do not believe I don't enjoy this frustrating fantasy world that my head has been in my entire adult life. If I can't do it and I'm not willing to walk away from a half century marriage I really have to ask myself what is worse, purging and dealing with an occasional round of pink fog or continuing to try to make an impossible situation work. My thinking was so dominated by this that I started therapy a year ago and it has not moved the needle one way or the other aside from my second thoughts about continuing in this impossibly frustrating situation. No worries, I am not one to become overly depressed and I am not standing on the precipice.

[Karren H]

I think that not telling is not lying but my wife feels otherwise... and she always wins so I am wrong... sigh......