case study

[battybattybats]

Depression and personality disorders are separate issues. Gender identity can be a part of those disorders. for example borderline personality disorder can have a gender confusion component because of a lack of core personality. One does need to address these issues. The sad part is that sometimes other people can see the problem but the one afflicted. Getting someone to address their issues is almost impossible if they don't think they have any. If that person refuses to see the problem (like batty said, you can't fix something without acknowledging what is broken) then one has to make some tuff personal decisions on wether or not to stay and work it out. This is very a very tough decision to make because every relationship has an up side and we tend to cling to that up side as proof that things could work out.

Depression can exascerbate things on either side. It and personality disorders are all rather common and with their own sets of problems which would have a profound effect on all aspects of life, this included. Determining its effects on an individuals gender identity/expression is definately the realm of proper medical professionals, (I've been checked, I just have anxiety issues from repressing my dressing).
As for people failing to see problems, well as long as people refuse to doubt, refuse contrary evidence, refuse to acknowledge appropriate expertise and instead have blind faith in there own view/judgement then their is no hope of convincing them. I have literally placed incontrovertable proof once under the nose of someone and still had them ignore it, worse than the priest who would not look through Gallileo's telescope.
Still sometimes, in their own time, even these people can come round.

As for the pink fog, sure that is a definate difficulty. Like a starving man who binges till they are sick once good food is found we can be catapulted into a frenzy of over indulgence and it's not easy to restrain. Still with time and understanding a comfortable equilibrium might be reached.

As for dominance in the bedroom, I'm sure it's like any other activity there. Monotony is well, monotonous. Each persons desires and needs have to be considered, variety is important and communication is again paramount. It's just another bedroom thing like all the other possible bedroom things and again like the other issues in the relationship the same rules apply regardless.
Of course femininity need not neccessarily be submissive.

[Jammie Lyann]

Kitty
I think you hit the nail on the head, I tend to fall into that area,
I also know that I do. I been that way for as long as I can remember,
been with my current wife 8 years, she has only known about my desires to dress for close to a year. she has complained many time about my lack of wanting to go out an get involved with others.
she goes to church an does events for them an has ask me on many occassions if I would go along, Im not much for meeting new people because
the way I see it the less friends I have the less I can get hurt, if they find out. I associate with people I work with but I do not befriend them.
I go to work an come home I dont like to travel to much, or leave the house very often cause I feel safe here. I have never been much of a people person
I get along with people ok, just dont like to get involved with them.
My wife makes friends with everyone, me Im very selective when befriending someone.
Dont get me wrong if someone needs a shoulder to cry on or an ear to listen I can be there for them,
Im not sure how I can come to a comman ground on this with my wife, or if I ever will.
I dont think for myself that being a cd has much bearing on the fact that I live like a Hermit,sence like I said Ive been suclusive most of my life.
but might have to some degree an involvment in it.
Ivey

[kittypw GG]

Josephine,
So very happy for you dear. We all want what you have.

Batty,
You are so right, feminity need not be submissive. All women have a male component its magnitude varies within individuals. It is just getting to a comprimise and I am as guily of struggeling to comprimise as any.

Just this morning I had to use my hubby's lap top. I clicked on fav's cause I saved the web site previously that I wanted to go to there. I found all kinds of web sites on my hubby's favs that were for CD's, shopping, stories chatting etc. The normal stuff that comes along with a CD support site. I instantly became uncomfortable and started to interogate my hubby. He became angry that I was snooping. Since I have been having this dialoge in this post I have tried to think a new way. I think what I was feeling was a lack of trust and it is fear based. I said to my hubby that I will have faith that he is trustworthy and not get upset about what sites he is visiting. There are lots of "tag-a-long" things that come with tg sites that could make a SO nerveous but that does not mean that he is engaging in those things.

I think I might have made a positive step. We did not have a huge argument and he denies that he is angry. What did I tell you, most of my dislike of his crossdressing is based in fear. I find crossdressing very sexy at times and I concider myself mostly accepting. Imagine what a SO feels when they are hit with this information by accident? WOW no wonder we struggle so.
Kitty

[renee99]

Of course femininity need not neccessarily be submissive.

There is a huge thread on precisely this topic, in the MHB boards, under Sex & Sensibility titled "the sexuality issue". I would link to it but you have to be registered to read it. The discussion centers around how important it is in a CD relationship for both partners to discard stereotypes of sex and just get over themselves and be willing to please the other. That includes the CD who can't get his motor running, as one poster replied, he's got five digits and two hands for a reason. It also includes those who insist that feminine=bottom and masculine=top, or dominant=top and submissive=bottom, etc. Kind of goes into the orthogonality of all those concepts.

[kittypw GG]

Kitty
I think you hit the nail on the head, I tend to fall into that area,
I also know that I do. I been that way for as long as I can remember,
been with my current wife 8 years, she has only known about my desires to dress for close to a year. she has complained many time about my lack of wanting to go out an get involved with others.
she goes to church an does events for them an has ask me on many occassions if I would go along, Im not much for meeting new people because
the way I see it the less friends I have the less I can get hurt, if they find out. I associate with people I work with but I do not befriend them.
I go to work an come home I dont like to travel to much, or leave the house very often cause I feel safe here. I have never been much of a people person
I get along with people ok, just dont like to get involved with them.
My wife makes friends with everyone, me Im very selective when befriending someone.
Dont get me wrong if someone needs a shoulder to cry on or an ear to listen I can be there for them,
Im not sure how I can come to a comman ground on this with my wife, or if I ever will.
I dont think for myself that being a cd has much bearing on the fact that I live like a Hermit,sence like I said Ive been suclusive most of my life.
but might have to some degree an involvment in it.
Ivey

Ivey, self protection is a good thing but you are in a situation that requires your participation. If you explain your fears to your wife and try to be a little more social I am sure she will be very pleased and see the effort you are making for her. If you don't communicate how you feel she has no other recourse but to make up what she THINKS you are trying to convey by your lack of participation in a social life. She may think you are too indulgent in the crossdressing, or accuse you of being passive aggressive and punishing.
Maybe you should talk to a professional about your fears so that you can work towards minimizing them. Fear is a prision and keeps you from having a good and meaningful life. Take care Kitty

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Kitty,

Again I will put my 3 cents in. I think you are a very brave young women to get out here to learn about what your husband is into there should be more like you. I hope your husband is reading all this advice that us girls are giving you. I for one am very inpressed with all the different takes . Good luck will continue to read an learn

Josephine

[Satrana]

I instantly became uncomfortable and started to interogate my hubby. He became angry that I was snooping.

As you have said, it is your fear that is making you feel uncomfortable. The best way to catch this is to compare how you would react if your husband was a golfer and you found golfing sites on his favorite list. If the crossdressing itself is not a problem then stop making it the issue.

The basic idea here is your negative view of crossdressing and your insecurities which in turn drives your behavior towards your husband's crossdressing. Although you say you find CDing sexy, you are fearful of its consequences and it is this fear which presently dominates your attitude.

I think relationships in general take a turn for the worse when one spouse stops seeing the positive in their partner. If you love your partner and wish to remain together then this can only be achieved by staying positive, optimistic and trusting your partner. A big part of maintaining relationships is mindset and staying upbeat and reminding yourself why your love your partner. Crossdressing does not have to be a problem if you approach it with the right mindset.

I am happy to hear that you are trying a new approach, I hope this really pays dividends. Of course your hubby should also respond in kind by changing his own mindset to be less defensive and to let you into his thoughts and emotions without anger.

[battybattybats]

And after all, even though you didn't intend to look at the things he had placed in the favourites list, from the moment you started paying more than a moments attention to them and especfially when you started to interrogate your husband you were snooping. I'd be angry in that situation too (and was when I have been). That he got over that indignity to his privacy when you changed tack and said you'd trust him was very good of him and helped you both resolve the situation.

Now that you have identified a big source of problem for you, your fears, the next step is to overcome those fears. For some just the realisation that the fear is the cause can be enough for the fear to evaporate, for others it's not so easy. So how best to overcome those fears?

[kittypw GG]

I think relationships in general take a turn for the worse when one spouse stops seeing the positive in their partner. If you love your partner and wish to remain together then this can only be achieved by staying positive, optimistic and trusting your partner. A big part of maintaining relationships is mindset and staying upbeat and reminding yourself why your love your partner. Crossdressing does not have to be a problem if you approach it with the right mindset.

.

These words should be applied to the CD as well. This is another problem with many CD relationships where the wife is struggeling to accept. The anger the CD feels towards the spouse because they feel controlled and are impatient because they want the acceptance and participation now.

When the CD gets angry at the spouse it starts to seem like that is all they want from the spouse. Some CD's never come up with any other activity that they want to do with the spouse. Over time the spouse starts to feel like their only purpose is to make the CD feel ok with everything and to help him obtain clothes so that he won't be embarassed. It becomes very one sided and I myself have felt sort of "used" if you will. Sort of like pretending you are a gay man's girlfriend so that he looks "normal" in the eyes of the general public or to his family. I have felt this way at times, like I am only good for something as long as it involves crossdressing and making him feel ok with it.

Sometimes it is exhausting for a spouse to constantly keep reassuring the CD that they are ok and not a weirdo for wanting to dress like a girl. This is exactly why I preach self acceptance. Through self acceptance you find peace of mind and confidence. You are less needy of your spouse and can move towards an equal relationship and mutual satisfaction. It is true that each partner needs to take responsibility for their own actions. Kitty

[battybattybats]

These words should be applied to the CD as well. This is another problem with many CD relationships where the wife is struggeling to accept. The anger the CD feels towards the spouse because they feel controlled and are impatient because they want the acceptance and participation now.

When the CD gets angry at the spouse it starts to seem like that is all they want from the spouse. Some CD's never come up with any other activity that they want to do with the spouse. Over time the spouse starts to feel like their only purpose is to make the CD feel ok with everything and to help him obtain clothes so that he won't be embarassed. It becomes very one sided and I myself have felt sort of "used" if you will. Sort of like pretending you are a gay man's girlfriend so that he looks "normal" in the eyes of the general public or to his family. I have felt this way at times, like I am only good for something as long as it involves crossdressing and making him feel ok with it.

Sometimes it is exhausting for a spouse to constantly keep reassuring the CD that they are ok and not a weirdo for wanting to dress like a girl. This is exactly why I preach self acceptance. Through self acceptance you find peace of mind and confidence. You are less needy of your spouse and can move towards an equal relationship and mutual satisfaction. It is true that each partner needs to take responsibility for their own actions. Kitty

There are a lot of seems and feel like statements there, and the way something seems isn't necessarily the way it is. Part of responsibility is being responsible for your own emotional reactions, and also to challenge the validity of the way things seem to see if that is the way they actually are. Perception after all is always flawed.

Even more importantly, while it is understandable that the CD might be looking for some validation and support from their SO if it's getting to the point of constant reassurance there is something wrong. The SO is not the CD's therapist after all. If the CD's issues with their dressing are so strong that they need constant reassurance it sounds like time to go to a qualified proffessional. If the CD only wants to participate in dressing activities maybe they want to dress full-time? Or... maybe they are focusing on dressing as a way to try and cope with a deep-seated fear and lack of self-acceptance.. it's hard to avoid it when you are in a skirt.

Another possibility is that the acceptance the CD is getting may feel/seem half-hearted or tentative to them. They might also have trouble believing it's real... which isn't surprising if the CD can't accept themselves. Mind you, self acceptance isn't easy.

[Rita B]

The first paragraph of your thread describe me to a tee. The only problem is that my SO ( wife) would never tolerate my CDing. I am depressed most of the time. I have no friends. My only contacts are immediate family, ( my wife and her family). I really do not understand why we stayed married. My wife is on holiday for 3 weeks ( until the 29th) and I have come out of the closet , just a little. Bought a few things, put some make up on. Today I am going to buy a wig and a camera. I know it's a temporary thing until she comes back. I have to do something. I can't go on denying what I am. Actually, a spring chicken, I am not. . .haha

[kittypw GG]

The first paragraph of your thread describe me to a tee. The only problem is that my SO ( wife) would never tolerate my CDing. I am depressed most of the time. I have no friends. My only contacts are immediate family, ( my wife and her family). I really do not understand why we stayed married. My wife is on holiday for 3 weeks ( until the 29th) and I have come out of the closet , just a little. Bought a few things, put some make up on. Today I am going to buy a wig and a camera. I know it's a temporary thing until she comes back. I have to do something. I can't go on denying what I am. Actually, a spring chicken, I am not. . .haha

How do you know if your wife would never tolerate your CD'ing. There are a few wives that were dead set against it to start and now it it totally a different story. Check out the posts of Sandra GG for example.

If you fee bad about who and what you are then your body language probably reflects that and people will respond to you the way you feel about yourself. If you work on accepting this part of you and keep it real and balanced then what choice does a spouse have if they want to stay with you. The balance and reality part make it possible to stay. If she can't tolerate seeing you "dressed" then there are ways to work that out as well as many here do.

One of the points that I have been trying to make in this thread is that wives may be more accepting than they seem but bad communication is often at fault for the hurt feelings and non acceptance, crossdressing just gets the blame.

Batty makes a good point, and I should plaster it all over the house. THINK before you assume. ASK for clarification before you jump to anger. Often times you will find something very different behind the supossed non acceptance. (again these words apply to both partners)

Best wishes Classy, find out who you are and give yourself the respect you deserve. Your wife will fall in line and if she doesn't then maybe she is not the right one for you. Give it a lot of time though and be patient with not just her but with yoursef. Forgive yourself for your mistakes but remember that the desire to crossdress is something that is hardwired in your brain probably from birth and you did not make that happen nor do you have control wether or not that desire exists. What you do have control over is your behavior and how you think and feel about yourself. Remember the law of attraction.
Kitty

[kittypw GG]

As you have said, it is your fear that is making you feel uncomfortable. The best way to catch this is to compare how you would react if your husband was a golfer and you found golfing sites on his favorite list. If the crossdressing itself is not a problem then stop making it the issue.

The basic idea here is your negative view of crossdressing and your insecurities which in turn drives your behavior towards your husband's crossdressing. Although you say you find CDing sexy, you are fearful of its consequences and it is this fear which presently dominates your attitude.

I think relationships in general take a turn for the worse when one spouse stops seeing the positive in their partner. If you love your partner and wish to remain together then this can only be achieved by staying positive, optimistic and trusting your partner. A big part of maintaining relationships is mindset and staying upbeat and reminding yourself why your love your partner. Crossdressing does not have to be a problem if you approach it with the right mindset.

I am happy to hear that you are trying a new approach, I hope this really pays dividends. Of course your hubby should also respond in kind by changing his own mindset to be less defensive and to let you into his thoughts and emotions without anger.

I understand what you are saying Satrana but your golf example is sort of flawed. When you go to golfing sites you don't find the sexual component, other golfers may be trying to pick eachother up for sexual encounters but it usually isn't a part of the web site. The sexual component triggers emotions and questions in the spouse. Are you gay? Do you want to be a women and then have sex with men? etc. Many women have been cheated on and most fear that it will happen so the sexual component triggers a different set of fears. That is what I was trying to get to when I was looking at my hubby's fav's list. TG web sites have lots of components and us wives need to trust that our hubbies will be faithful and not just assume they are taking part in that sexual component. Some husbands are just not faithful so a little suspicion is necessary for self preservation but it is a fine line and sometimes that line is crossed.

I totally agree with almost everything that you said. This dialogue is helping me a great deal. I hope that others find some wisdom and a new way as well.
Kitty

[renee99]

I understand what you are saying Satrana but your golf example is sort of flawed. When you go to golfing sites you don't find the sexual component, other golfers may be trying to pick eachother up for sexual encounters but it usually isn't a part of the web site.

Hmm, I guess I visit different golf sites:
http://bl.net/forwards/bedgolf.html
:-)

[Toyah]

I think what you are relating to is men in general we dont want to go out socialising on others terms
As for the expresing the feelings thing dont go there

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Kitty,

Still at it I see , you are now on a roller coster damd if you do dam if you don't. I still have not seen anything from your hubbie, what dose he think of all that is going on about your post . Like I said before I hope he is reading all of your replys. I bet you are getting a lot of private msg too.


Josephine

[Satrana]

These words should be applied to the CD as well.

Absolutely, all partnerships need equal involvement and effort from both parties. It is clear from your descriptions that your husband has much work to do himself to steer your relationship to calmer waters.

It becomes very one sided and I myself have felt sort of "used" if you will. Sort of like pretending you are a gay man's girlfriend so that he looks "normal" in the eyes of the general public or to his family.

That is not a good sign, if his own self acceptance is lacking the this will make everything more difficult. You have explained previously how much you were involved and assisted in his crossdressing, I think that might have backfired as he has come to rely on you too much as a safety blanket. I would suggest that you consider withdrawing from all activities which assist him from confronting his own fears and shame. Let him go out by himself, let him buy his own clothes, let him dress himself and apply his own makeup etc. Treat his crossdressing as a normal thing, don't emphasize it as anything special.

He needs to reach a point where he understands that crossdressing is a means of self expression and is no different from when he is dressing en drab. It is just another set of clothes, a uniform which aids him to connect to his feminine side. Ultimately that is all crossdressing is, a tool to overcome social gender conditioning and to allow him to express his whole personality. Ideally the two sides of his personality will merge and he will feel comfortable accessing his feminine emotions without the necessity of emulating a woman.

[Satrana]

I understand what you are saying Satrana but your golf example is sort of flawed.

Agreed, it is not perfect because crossdressing is more than a hobby and does have other components as you say. But, my point was not to find an exact anology but to point out that you should aim to think about crossdressing as if it were golf. In other words, learn to normalize your views of crossdressing and stop thinking of it as a special deal (the same advice to CDs as well)

Think of this - if he was a golfer and you saw the golf links, would your thoughts be - "these golf sites have forums, and there a women golfers, is my hubby using these golf sites to chat to women to arrange dates". In truth there are millions of sexual images everywhere and infinite opportunities for any man to cheat on his spouse if that is what he wants to do. Cheating has got nothing to do with crossdressing, just as it has got nothing to do with golf either.

I know there are sexual issues attached to crossdressing and you can see these for yourself, but crossdressing does not in any way encourage cheating by itself. IMHO, crossdressers are less likely to cheat than non-CD men because our feelings and emotions towards women and ourselves are different. Ask your husband about this - what does he want from the relationship?, how does he view women? does he want to experiment with men?

This all goes back to mindset. If your husband has done nothing to suggest that he is or wants to cheat on you, then you need to cast your fear aside and trust and believe in him. Stay positive and avoid negativity if there is no basis to be suspicious in his actions in the real world, not the fantasy world of the internet.

Love and trust are partially based on blind faith. If you try to remove that blind faith by always being suspicious and checking, then you lose the love and trust.:2c:

[kittypw GG]

Hi Kitty,

Still at it I see , you are now on a roller coster damd if you do dam if you don't. I still have not seen anything from your hubbie, what dose he think of all that is going on about your post . Like I said before I hope he is reading all of your replys. I bet you are getting a lot of private msg too.


Josephine

I am not sure what you mean by being "still at it"? I hope to be "still at it" until I find a balance for myself with the crossdressing. I have been trying to keep things broad so that I can help others in the process. In case you didn't notice some gg's have given up discussing issues about their hubby's crossdressing in the mtf forum because of the ridicule that they get. I did not want this to be a debate aobut my personal relationship. In defense of my hubby, there are two sides to every story and I am sure if he were more like me he would be telling somewhat of a different story, his slant on the issues concerning SO's acceptance or lack of. There are always two sides to every story.

It doesn't help to bash the CD when the SO complains about issues with the crossdressing. Bashing nor making my hubby look bad was NOT my purpose in wanting to have this discussion. These are REAL concerns that gg's have from the eyes of a gg. I was looking for the perspective of REAL CD's so that I might be enlightened and find a better comfort level with crossdressing and all that it entails.

Rollercoaster? Damn right it feels like a rollercoaster, just ask any gg who is not afraid of answering honestly.

I thank everyone who participated in a very enlightening conversation about gg concerns. Especially Batty and Satrana. Your words gave me food for thought and helped me grow in my thinking.

I would still like to read more thoughts on how gg's can gain balance and achieve better communication with their seemingly reclusive and quiet CD hubbies if anyone wants to contribute, but lets not bash anyone ok? Nobody is helped by being bashed or put down and isn't helping the whole purpose of this forum?

Kitty

[Andi]

Kitty, I too am much of what you described as the CDer except - When we were married 41 years ago I pledged to give 90% to my SO and expect only 10% in return. She too behaves the same way, that's how we got to 41 years. The CD issue has come and gone a few times but she just can't be involved with it so I don't make an issue out of it. When you say you love someone it is a lifelong commitment where you want what's best for that person and you want them to be as happy as they can be. I sympathize with all GG's who are "expected" to deal with this because it just isn't possible for some. I sympathize with those CDer's who don't understand how to maintain a true relationship with their SO given their predispostion. It's not about blind acceptance by both and it's not about giving in totally to the wishes of the other. It's a squiggly path to navigate but with mutual love and trust it can be done and both will have a loving relationship with each other.

[kittypw GG]

Kitty, I too am much of what you described as the CDer except - When we were married 41 years ago I pledged to give 90% to my SO and expect only 10% in return. She too behaves the same way, that's how we got to 41 years. The CD issue has come and gone a few times but she just can't be involved with it so I don't make an issue out of it. When you say you love someone it is a lifelong commitment where you want what's best for that person and you want them to be as happy as they can be. I sympathize with all GG's who are "expected" to deal with this because it just isn't possible for some. I sympathize with those CDer's who don't understand how to maintain a true relationship with their SO given their predispostion. It's not about blind acceptance by both and it's not about giving in totally to the wishes of the other. It's a squiggly path to navigate but with mutual love and trust it can be done and both will have a loving relationship with each other.

Thank you Andi,
What a beautiful testiment to your love and relationship. Kitty

[Josephine 1941]

Hi Kitty,
I am sorry if it seamed like I was bashing, I guess I am looking for input. My girl friend has accepted me from day One. Lucky I guess but she is a New York girl an lived in Manhatten, had many friend gay Cds les so she was exposed to my life style an more so with us it was no big deal. GGs in my mind are confused as why a man would like to dress, I guess looking at GGs in so many men cloths we are too. Being gay, Bi, or straight is each person own prefrance, but I do agree that if you have a husband or wife they need to know.

[Marcie Sexton]

Good questions, insightful...YES, complicated...perhaps for some yes, but not for me and my wife. Common ground between us has always been there, just a different, but much closer perspective...


Let me say that due to work constraints my wife indeed makes most plans, but she always runs them by me...In most cases we are both in agreement and carry them out to full enjoyment...

My wife is a real trooper...while at first she had a tough time, as most do I'm sure in coping with my dressing, the closeness and love never left...If any thing it made us stronger and closer...and continues to grow

While I'm not sure this is really the aswer one would expect, I have found that keeping an even keel between Marcie, myself and my wife has been rather easy. For us its a matter of sharing and being open and honest...

Perhaps the best ways to understand it all is to read a book authored by John Wooden, the coach of UCLA fame...Wooden on Leadership...This book while telling stories about his times of being a coach also stresses what he required of his players...It provides his pyramid of success, discussing how exactly to apply it to your life...Both I and my wife have invested the five to six hours required to read it and it has provided a perspective for both of us that we were aware of, but with a much clearer view and how to further strengthen our love, respect, resolve, and trust for each other...Well worth the 24.95, the price of the book...

I hope this is the type of answer you were looking for, perhaps a bit redundent, but it is, has, and is still working for us...

[battybattybats]

An idea for an exercise for improving communication between a Cder and an SO.

'Girl Talk'
If the SO can handle this excersise with the CDer dressed it could very much help. The SO should suggest that a good way for the CD to explore their femme self would be to open up their emotional side and have a girl to girl talk. Each gets to ask a question about something from the others life but must answer the same question themselves. These things should start light and get slowly more deep, from things like the favourite pet-related memory to first experience with the grief of death. Lots of 'how did you cope with that/react with that?' questions are encouraged.

Some iportant rules:
1, If a question is answered that you asked then you must give your own answer
2. Either can pass a question the other has asked and neither then answers the question
3. Either can stop the game at any time
4. Absolutely no questions relating to the current relationship or current crossdressing (perhaps all crossdressing?) are allowed - this exercise is to free up the rest of communication, emotional understanding and general understanding of each other.
5. Absolutely no judgement is allowed! These are deep emotional confessions, not an opertunity to hold court.

What does everyone think of the idea?

[kittypw GG]

Marcie, I love autobiographies and will have to pick up a copy. Sometimes a little inspiration is all one needs.

Batty, Love the new avatar dear. Very, cute.
I had my hubby read your reply and he agreed to try it. :D I think this might start things off. I would maybe add to your rules list that what ever is revieled during these communication sessions can not be used against the other in the heat of an argument.

Do you think that communication might be easier because he would not be wearing the "uniform" of his man self? I mean, sort of like talking in the dark, it is just easier. If this is the case then one needs to eventually work on being a better communicator in the man "uniform" as well.

Good suggestions, I will let you know how it goes. Since we have a graduation comming up, there won't be much time till Sunday. Sounds like a nice activity to relax with and start that process. Kitty