Attraction to same sex? Related to TV/TSism?

[Hippy Chic]

What's with this translesbian stuff?

Hang on - when I wear mens clothes, I fancy women. When I wear girls clothes, I still fancy women.

That makes me a straight man doesn't it?

[Alex!]

I'm 100% straight guy, and the idea of getting intimate with a dude, even if he looks awesome en femme, turns me off immediately. Hanging out is one thing, getting frisky is way out of the question. Most of my crossdressing friends are the same way.

I like women. Period. So much so I sometimes dress like one, apparently

[Deborah Jane]

I only ever fancy women! Dressing as a woman doesn,t change my sexual preferance!!

[AmandaM]

Well In the case I mentioned I was talking about a hetro CD who appeared to be attracted to men only when he dressed.

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.

Based on what you just said, if you are correct, then the TS is only "uncovering" their true desires. But, are those desires gay or bi, or just femaleness? And if they are just femaleness, does the same go for TVs with TS tendencies? I am assuming here that the classical fetishistic transvestite is only gay or bi. Of course, my next thought is that the TV with TS tendencies desires' could be a mix of gay/bi AND femaleness. I wonder if those competing desires, if true, can be decoupled from each other? Ouch, my brain hurts...

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

It's really not that complicated.

There is biological sex.
There is gender.
There is sexuality.


In a simple world, a male would be totally masculine and attracted to women. Women would be completely feminine and attracted to men.

It's not a simple world and sex, gender and sexuality are not all linked.

A man can be feminine and be attracted to women - he's straight.

A woman might be feminine and be attracted to women - she's lesbian.

I don't get the confusion here. Just accept that while sex, gender and sexuality are not linked, all of us sit at different places on each line.

[AmandaM]

I would agree with you except for some issues. Myself, as well as some other CDers are not attracted to masculinity. I could never be a man with a man. I never look at men with desire, only women. But, when dressed, and feeling especially feminine, I've been drawn to a couple of men. It makes me wonder if there is a causal link between feminine identity and sexuality that is not covered by the general categories of gay or bi. For instance, gay assumes a man attracted to other men, but MTF TS's are not men. Therefore, where do they fit? And if they are not gay, then what about those TVs with TS tendencies? Do you see where I'm going? I'm thinking the categories of gay, bi, and straight are not sufficient to cover the transgendered, and that a female sexual identity can exist as well as a female gender identity in the transgendered. Would you say that this so-called female sexual identity does not exist?

It's really not that complicated.

There is biological sex.
There is gender.
There is sexuality.


In a simple world, a male would be totally masculine and attracted to women. Women would be completely feminine and attracted to men.

It's not a simple world and sex, gender and sexuality are not all linked.

A man can be feminine and be attracted to women - he's straight.

A woman might be feminine and be attracted to women - she's lesbian.

I don't get the confusion here. Just accept that while sex, gender and sexuality are not linked, all of us sit at different places on each line.

[MarinaTwelve200]

Based on what you just said, if you are correct, then the TS is only "uncovering" their true desires. But, are those desires gay or bi, or just femaleness? And if they are just femaleness, does the same go for TVs with TS tendencies? I am assuming here that the classical fetishistic transvestite is only gay or bi. Of course, my next thought is that the TV with TS tendencies desires' could be a mix of gay/bi AND femaleness. I wonder if those competing desires, if true, can be decoupled from each other? Ouch, my brain hurts...

I think your problem is that you consider CD/TV in a similar category to something like a TS or a BI. CD or TV is something one DOES-- not what one IS. a CD may be TS. BI, straight or Gay. We CD for different reasons, not only to get in touch with a fem side, but things totally unrelated to that, like excapisim or SM or fetishes.

Things will be clearer if you just think in terms of sexuality, gender and biosex and the different combinations you can get.---leave CD/TV out of it-- its just something one may or may not DO as an adjunct or a response to one or more of these underlying conditions. NO one is "a CD" in the same way they are a TS or whatever.

[basehitter]

1. Just perform as female
2. I have to feel female



have yet to have sex.

I do feel turned on to men when i am in female cloths but only in female cloths.

[BarbaraTalbot]

either one has an 'inner girl' or you don't. Clothes may help you express to others how you feel inside. Your desires sexually at the core shouldn't be dependent on how you dress at any particular moment.

If your inner girl likes to be with men, (or men in skirts) or girls, or girls in suits, or whatever, then your inner girl wants that particular thing.

If dressing changes that, The only thing that makes sense is that some portion of your conscious self is uncomfortable with or conflicted by same gender attraction. It sounds to me that a person like you describe (and I think it is not uncommon) are either bi-sexual or in fact actually homosexual at their core, and have learned to use dressing as a way of giving themselves permission to act in ways that they don't or cannot acknowledge to themselves.

I would think the first thing to determine is what ones orientation really is. Once that is figured out, It makes sense to think of crossdressing as a fetish component. In other words, If one acknowledges one is gay or bisexual, then it is at least internally consistent to say I and gay or bisexual, and as it pertains to being with men, I find it more fun/comfortable/sexy to be dressed as a girl when I engage sexually with them.

Kind of cart before the horse. Dressing or gender feelings cant cause orientation feelings, but orientation feelings could cause gender questions or interest in dressing.


OK another thought occurred to me about another type of cd'r with these sort of orientation inconsistencies. IN that case I wonder if the urge to add an experience with a man to their resume, if that is from casting about trying to wear/feel/and act like how they perceive a gg would. In these instances what I see between the lines are those that haven't actually followed through, aren't real clear about what it is that they find attractive about men, just kind of want that seal of approval. It just doesn't make sense to me if the interest is almost in the form of adding yet another accessory to ones wardrobe, a man at the elbow, or er wherever.

[dakota_ann69]

I am not bi and I know that I am not gay. I seek only to be with women and one woman in particular my SO. Just because I enjoy being a woman I cannot even dream of allowing myself to be with a man!! YUCK!! Sorry just doesn't work for me!! When I am with my woman I assure you I am all man!! LOL. As for the last I like to crossdress plain and simple.

[raleighbelle]

I have found this topic very interesting. I discussed it a bit in my intro. Unlike many of the people answering it, I do have different feelings depending on how I am dressed.

As a male, in male clothing, I have absolutely no attraction to or desire for other men. Never did.
When dressed, or in my female role, I do find the idea of sex with a man stimulating and desirable, in part perhaps as a fulfillment of my role as a female. In that situation, I only have the desire to be a woman, in the female sexual role (rather difficult to do I will admit), with no interest in male to male attraction. But in my fantasies of this, it is always with a 'faceless' male. I have never looked at a man or a photo of a man and found him to be sexually attractive, or wanted to have sex with him. I would have to be dressed (at least until undressed, but would still have some clothing or make-up on). I have so far never had sex with another man. Despite what I have said above, I am always still very interested in other women, even in my female role. I have never had sex with a woman while dressed, but I think it would be incredible. I kind of like the 'translesbian' concept that was brought up earlier in these discussions.

I know that answer sounds confused, and it is. Doesn't make sense, but that is the way it is for me. I hope I answered the questions you were asking.

[ericalynne]

Just to add my own feelings: First I must say that dressed or not I always feel femme in my heart and soul. Having said that, I could never be attracted to a man unlessed I amd dressed and in full and total female mode. Then I could be attracted to a man, in the sense that a woman would be attractive to a man, which in my mind is totally normal behavior. But having said that as well, the man mujst be gentle, kind, understanding, loving, sympathetic. I would never be attracted to a total macho type. I don't know if I have answered the question. Just some random thoughts from one who has always known she was a woman.

[CaptLex]

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.

What?! I had to read that twice to make sure I read it right. Do you really believe that all transwomen have to be attracted to men? Their "true calling"? And they only date women for "social conformist reasons"? So, you don't think there are lesbian transwomen? I still can't believe what I'm reading . . . let me read it again . . . :rolleyes:

I am not bi and I know that I am not gay. I seek only to be with women and one woman in particular my SO. Just because I enjoy being a woman I cannot even dream of allowing myself to be with a man!! YUCK!! Sorry just doesn't work for me!! When I am with my woman I assure you I am all man!! LOL. As for the last I like to crossdress plain and simple.

Well goody for you hun, but please don't be so judgmental. I'm not attracted to women, but I would never be rude enough to say, "Ewww . . . sex with women, yuck!"

Seriously, what's with all the *$#%&! homophobia around here? :Angry3:

[AmandaM]

Seriously people! No more yucks, no more gay=bad, no more bible=bad. OK?

OK, let's redefine my question. Let's leave out all crossdressers. Let's just talk about transsexuals. Are MTF transsexuals gay or bi if they like men or are they just women liking men? Why?

[Hippy Chic's Chick]

I would agree with you except for some issues. Myself, as well as some other CDers are not attracted to masculinity. I could never be a man with a man. I never look at men with desire, only women. But, when dressed, and feeling especially feminine, I've been drawn to a couple of men. It makes me wonder if there is a causal link between feminine identity and sexuality that is not covered by the general categories of gay or bi. For instance, gay assumes a man attracted to other men, but MTF TS's are not men. Therefore, where do they fit? And if they are not gay, then what about those TVs with TS tendencies? Do you see where I'm going? I'm thinking the categories of gay, bi, and straight are not sufficient to cover the transgendered, and that a female sexual identity can exist as well as a female gender identity in the transgendered. Would you say that this so-called female sexual identity does not exist?

I do see where you're coming from, but the problem is that gender, biological sex and sexuality are presumed to overlap and all have something in common. It's not true.

With all of them, there are 2 extremes, most of us happily identify ourselves somewhere near the extreme on all three.

When crossdressing, your gender is the only thing that changes, you allow more of your feminine side out to play than you usually do. Women are more often attracted to the same sex (just for now I am talking about in a non-sexual way). You're far more likely to hear a straight GG state, "She's gorgeous!" than you are to hear a straight GM claim that another man is a hunk. I can glare at some Hollywood actress for being gorgeous without wanting to sleep with her. If at any time you are attracted enough to a man to consider sleeping with him, regardless of dress, then you probably have bi-sexual tendancies (don't ask me to quote anything, but studies show that it's more common to have bi-sexual tendancies than to be totally straight). If changing your gender allows the bi-sexual tendancies to come out, so be it - dressing allows a lot of suppressed emotion, behaviour and feeling to be dealt with.

As far as TS goes, they identify their gender very strongly with the opposite biological sex. Sexuality again, is not anything to do with this. A GM TS may be attracted to either sex, though I'd hazzard a guess that if you live as a woman, feel like a woman, look like a woman and never consider yourself as anything else, then to sleep with a GG woman could be considered as lesbian. It's not up to me to place those labels on anyone.

GGs...back me up here...a man dressed like a woman during sex is like, well, a woman!! (gasp!)

Sorry to disappoint. When it comes to sex, it is the physical form of a male that I want and enjoy. He looks like a man, feels like a man, behaves like a man - and trying not to be too crude here - the 'mechanics' are those of a man. If I couldn't be promised the 'end result', lol, then I frankly wouldn't have any interest whatsoever.

He may be more feminine than if he'd been in boxer shorts all day, but his feminine side is a part of him I love. The attraction and the turn on is that biologically he's a pretty sexy dude!

It's the whole package that I love, but the man that I go to bed with.




To explain further how I perceive this:

Gender - masculine or feminine, most of us have bits of both. I do believe that in today's society it's far more acceptable for GGs to show their masculine side and every day dress accepts both masculine and feminine items. I reckon that's why there are so few GG CDs, we get every opportunity - without ridicule - of showing both parts of us. I reckon HC is closer to the feminine on that line than I am.

Biological Sex - man or woman and usually pretty quick and easy to check. In the case of those with TS, they feel their body is the wrong one and that's more than fair enough. Gender and sexuality don't come into feeling that your biological sex is wrong.

Sexuality - you're straight, gay or bi. As I said above, most people appear to be bisexual rather than completley straight. It has nothing to do with gender or biological sex, it's a simple case of who/what you're attracted to.

So, I'm female, around half and half on the gender line and straight. HC is male, probably about the same on the gender line (but slightly more feminine) and straight. Clothing changes none of this, only in the way that it allows certain aspects of the self to come out to play.

[Billiemarie]

Yes I want to be fem, and enjoy a man. I want to wear the bra and the other thing too. A nice older man that takes me out on a date with the idea of getting in my panties but that doesn't mean him wearing them. lol

[kristiCD]

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag? Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?


1. yes, perform as female sexually
2. must feel female, do feel female
3. CD with a strong exhibitionist streak

[Desiree2bababe]

OK, some here are bi or gay, some are only bi when dressed. Can we see if there is any link to TV/TSism? Are you bi because you feel female? I suppose so. Or are you bi anyway? NoHere are some questions. Feel free to come up with your own if mine are not correct:

1. Are you attracted to the same sex in drag?YES Does it feel like a fetish or are you attracted to their whole being, i.e., if MTF, are you attracted to masculinity or do you just want to perform as a female sexually?I merely want to perform
2. Do you have to feel like the opposite sex when engaged with them? In other words, if you are MTF with a man do you have to feel female?YES
3. Are you TV, TS, or somewhere in-between?I suppose a TV with gay tendencies[/COLOR]

Basically I experimented with men as a teenager due to my mother's strict rules on no premartial sex. I have always loved women and always have had beautiful girlfriends. My first encounter with a man was at the age of 15. Many men have come and gone since but only while dressed. Bringing a man to pleasure while dressed makes me feel feminine and a bit of a ****. I suppose women are my choice of preference however and the coming of the transsexual age is wonderful. I especially love those who choose to keep their male appendages in working order.

See replies in pink

[Lisa Golightly]

Hormones affect the way you feel.... True, true, true

[Corinna E]

i have a girlfriend and am very attracted to her....often times though even in male mode i feel like its only appropriate that i act as a female, wish i could be female all the time and plan on having surgery. As weird as it sounds i would really classify myself as a lesbian/bi female. i am attracted to men and my deepest fantasy's come from being with men and being their girl but at the same time im extremely attracted to my girlfriend and females in whole.


what a life we live!!

<3 cori

[Fab Karen]

A Transsexual is just that, a transsexual--- a male born with a 'female" brain to start with. She would inherently, in her mind, be attracted to men. Before transition though, may date women only for social conformist reasons---upon transition would feel free to her real calling--dating men.

"real calling- dating men"? You've made the assumption that all women are heterosexual, which of course isn't reality.

[misstoni]

The guy thing is a special one for me. I don't have the least bit of attraction to men. However my femme side has no problem flirting with guys who see my femme image (either in person or online). I don't push the envelope, I make it clear that I am in no way sexually attracted to them and I make sure never to cross lines. Still, batting an eyelash, enjoying compliments and being nice can feel good.

I'm prety open minded and I don't see anything wrong with a girl like us being with a man. Though I don't share that desire, I get it. I probably would do it if I could get over the fact that I just don't find men appealing. I can't see myself being with anyone who doesn't turn me on.

For me the idea of a man is appealing. The idea of being treated like a woman by a man is appealing. I have seen it in simple things like men holding doors open for me, dancing, or just approaching me. I like those things, they feel good. Anything too much beyond that is crossing the line for me.

[Melissa Pink]

I have been living full time as a female for about three months. When I was all male I considered myself very bisexual... I liked the sensuality and tenderness of sex with women....but I also like being a bottom for a male that knew how to please me. Every time I engaged in guy-guy sex even while crossdressed I always felt guilty afterwards. I had been cross dressing for years, initially only during acceptable periods (e.g. Halloween and Mardi Gras) Gradually, I gained more confidence and began going to clubs and out and about as "Melissa". It was liberating for me. Now when I'm attracted to a male and subsequently go to bed with him the guilt is largely gone, but Melissa is thankfully no where near as permiscuous as my former male persona . My crossdressing friends friend range from rather conservative "straight" crossdressers to flamboyant drag queens. I think that we have to do what feels right for us in and out of the bedroom. I am one of those girls that is a bit more than a crossdresser and not quite a transgender....not sure what that makes me besides androgynous. I'm intrigued about the idea of having a BA... but I have no interest in hormones or GRS. Does that sound weird?

[SirTrey]

What?! I had to read that twice to make sure I read it right. Do you really believe that all transwomen have to be attracted to men? Their "true calling"? And they only date women for "social conformist reasons"? So, you don't think there are lesbian transwomen? I still can't believe what I'm reading . . . let me read it again . . . :rolleyes:


Well goody for you hun, but please don't be so judgmental. I'm not attracted to women, but I would never be rude enough to say, "Ewww . . . sex with women, yuck!"

Seriously, what's with all the *$#%&! homophobia around here? :Angry3:

I am with you, CaptLex....I am attracted to men by genetics, but who tend to be femme by gender identity....In other words, I am attracted to MtF's...I think a lot of people are confusing CD and TS....For CD's, it's the clothes and the way that they feel when they wear them...For TS's, it's about who you are on the inside...I am a man....If I put a dress on right now, I would still be a man...I would be crossdressing....even though I am genetically female....This is one reason that I hate labels....Because I am transmasculine and attracted to men, does that make Me gay? Or am I straight because I tend to be attracted to transgirls, regardless of their biological make-up? I think everyone floats how they float and they are who they are....I do think, though, that this is the LAST place that I would expect to find homophobia....Why can't we all just get along? Why the judging? I just don't get it.....**Trey**

[Chrissy8888]

This is a very interesting post and every reply is very well written and thought out. As I read each reply (and I may be missing all the points) I feel like everybody is trying to justify their actions. Well that is a good thing however I don't feel you should go through life trying to justify yourself but rather just be who you are and love yourself for that. I think gender identification is the most understudied facet of human life. I am not sure that it can ever be studied properly. I just believe that as long as nobody is getting hurt if it is right in your mind than it is right for you.