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Janice, there's a range in sexist attitudes. If you take Wiki's definition, "sexism, also known as gender discrimination or sex discrimination, is defined as prejudice or discrimination based on sex; or conditions or attitudes that foster stereotypes of social roles based on sex."
There are blatant, discriminatory sexist attitudes that we rarely see around here, but the more subtle (or not so subtle) stereotyping of women is alive and well, I'm afraid.
Asche, if you admit that you're taking a comment out of context, then why proceed to comment on it yourself? Most people agree that's a bit unfair. What you're doing here is misrepresenting what I've said on this thread, as well as on a number of others.Quote:
Originally Posted by Asche
Taking a comment a bit out of context:
Not all of us.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse
This is a petty common assumption here, but it's worth remembering that not all of the posters or lurkers here think of themselves as "girls," either. There's a silent minority here of people who just dress, without feeling in any sense female by doing it. There are all kinds of people here, and talking as if everyone is a certain way tends to discourage those who aren't that way from participating.
I think it's a useful -- and mind-broadening -- exercise to ask yourself how what you are doing and what others are doing might come across to people who aren't like you.
(Personally, I think it would be a dreadful bore if everyone were like me.)
What I was talking about on this thread is the fact that we on this forum talk a lot about women's clothes, make-up, dressing, going out, etc. Are you going to deny that CDers as well as those who identify as TG talk about such things?
Asche, I'm well aware of the issue you're raising here. It's an issue I myself have discussed on many other threads. One thing is, I'm not actually sure that you're a minority on this MTF forum. There's a pretty even divide, according to a count I once made, between those who identify as male and those who identify as female. And the second thing is, your group isn't silent by any means. There are many people who express their views, and do it quite effectively.
But all this is totally off-topic on this thread. So perhaps we can keep things on topic and in context?
Best wishes, Annabelle
I'm not misrepresenting anything, because I'm not responding to the point you were making.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse
I was pointing out that that sentence included in it an assumption that people in this forum widely make, apparently without even thinking about it, that "all" the CDers here are being "girls," at least in the sense of using female names, calling one another "ladies" or "girls," and trying to achieve a feminine look or feeling. This is obviously true for most, my point was that it's not true for all.
I disagree.Quote:
Originally Posted by Annabelle Larousse
This thread started as a discussion of how posters can make a new, non-CDer feel unwelcome in the forum and the site. My point, expressed in different ways in different replies, has been that there are lots of less-than-obvious and often unintentional ways in which people in the mainstream of a group end up creating a climate that makes those who aren't like the mainstream feel that this group is not for them. And that changing this (assuming you want to) requires examining a lot of the stuff that goes on that people don't think about and just passes for normal or not worth talking about.
Again, I don't dispute that sterotyping exists. I just don't see it as frequently here as others might and believe there are other explanations. I'd be willing to bet that I draw the line one what may or may not be sexist close to what you would think, which is closer than what many women think (my feminist wife and her friends still have no trouble stating that men have no business braiding their daughters' hair, or that fathers must be the ones to teach kids how to spit toothpaste the proper way. :))
Like many issues, I think this is one of the "eye of the beholder" things, as what you may find sexist I might not. But It doesn't mean I don't value your opinion and don't consider all viewpoints, regardless of what I may thing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
Very, very good point. And this is something which the moderators of this site have ALWAYS come down on, when we notice it or when it gets reported. Not only is it just plain rude to those who do not identify as 'ladies' or 'girls', but it is downright offputting to especially our FTM members of the forum! There's no call for it, and it kind of blows my mind that for some people the response to a mainstream heteronormative society that whitewashes their gender expression and stifles it is to stifle that of others on a site like this. Now, I don't think this is entirely how Annabelle meant to write her post, and she didn't totally come off that way to me - when she said the word 'us' I took it to mean, 'us who are MTF crossdressers who feel female.' The point at which I get frustrated is when I see posts which are addressed, 'Hey girls,' or 'how many of you girls...'Quote:
Originally Posted by Asche
Slightly more off-topic rant that fits in on this thought (and is ENTIRELY my own opinion, YMMV): I don't like the term 'gurl' to refer to a member of the crossdressing or transgender community. If you feel feminine, own it and call yourself a girl (or even a woman!!) In my opinion, if you don't feel like you deserve to be a woman or a girl, you probably don't deserve to be one with bad spelling, either... and the only one keeping you from deserving that is you and your own self esteem. Accept who you are, and that others are different from you and that's okay.
Janice,
I hate to say this but I sometimes feel exasperated with the 'why wouldn't women want to dress up in dresses, heels, etc.' posts. The reason why is that it doesn't always suit our lifestyles, just the same as why you wouldn't wear a full-on going out outfit all the time, either! The way that question is posted makes it seem as though that sort of outfit were the norm, and anything else is a variation from the standard when the truth is, there are so many different outfits to be had for so many purposes. I could just as easily say, 'why wouldn't anyone want to spend their full day outside hiking, listening to birds, identifying wildflowers and combating invasive species?' but I would be just as wrong to apply MY norm onto other people.
When I mention girls in a thread I don't do it to insult anybody. The section is titled MTF. Members instead of girls would be a better choice of words though.
Oh to the original post.. Most of us won't insult the GG's, there's no reason to.
I see it a lot and I'll mention the instances in a moment. But first I need to say that I don't see it as willful disrespect and personally I'm NOT bothered by it (unless it is blatant or arrogant). Not here, not in a CDer forum. I understand that the road from male socialization to being able to believably express the opposite gender is difficult. I tried to walk like a guy once and my attempt was downright laughable, and I was NOT trying to be funny. Picture an exaggerated John Wayne who is stiff because he just got off the horse he's been riding for 3 days straight. lol It takes a while for a genetic male to let go of the stereotyped feminine behaviors (I believe), and just be natural. Also for many of our members, forums such as this one are their main places to be feminine, so there is a degree of playing a role while they're here, if you will.Quote:
Originally Posted by Janice Winona
Anyway, here are some of the more subtle and not so subtle expressions of sexism, or stereotyping, if you prefer. And again, I understand where they come from, and I believe that as members grow in their expression and practice, they do disappear:
- Babs mentioned this already: "Why don't GGs dress femininely anymore."
- "I love doing housework when I am dressed in my sexy maid's outfit. I feel so girly."
- "This is my sexy secretary's outfit."
- "Here I am in my ultra sexy outfit" (an outfit that few GGs wear, unless they're college aged girls at a nightclub).
- All the pics of cleavage and big boobs.
- "What is your ideal women's job?" Answers I've read: "Hooter's girl, secretary, playboy bunny, flight attendant, call girl, model."
- "Women are jealous of beautiful women." Or, "Women don't like us because they're jealous."
- "I'm more feminine than the average woman."
- "I want to be a wife and take good care of my man" (implying a subservient role). Or, "I want to be a wife and be taken care of".
Obviously not everyone expresses these thoughts, but I think we all recognize them as having been expressed on this site numerous times.
Marleena, as to using "hi girls" in the M2F, Babs was saying that we edit that out if it is used in sections that are not specifically designated M2F, for example the Lounge, Media or Loved Ones sections. Still, we no doubt have many M2F CDers who don't think of themselves as girls, but I think they understand it when they read this in the M2F section. I've not heard any complaints. :p
Oh..I know some members get insulted if we adress them wrong. They feel very strongly about who and where they are on the scale. Even though all of us are under the TG umbrella some hate being called transgender. Then there's the label debate and so on.lol. I'm glad I'm not the one trying to explain it all.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
As I said earlier in my post Babs, I know the answer and sincerely appreciate your point of view. My point was, at least for me, I see something I'd actually like to be able to do in public, without fear of any humiliaiton or reprisal, that I really can't do. When I say "why wouldn't you want to. .. .," it has nothing to do with my expectations of women, but eveyrything to do with something I would love to be able to do. I don't epect women to really wear heels, hose, skirts etc. every day and I completely understand why women feel completely different about it than I do.
Using your analogy- I grew up in one of the most scenic, naturally beautiful places on the face of the earth where people come just to see the foliage. Others are into birding, hunting, fishing, etc. There are literally dozens of mountains to hike within 2-3 hours drive over rural highways from my childhood home. Despite having seen the foliage forever, having had the opportunity to hike whenever I wanted to, having plenty of relatives who are into outdoor sport, I have no interest in any of it. I've had several people say "Why don't you just get in a car and drive to see all these things" more times than you can imagine. I just don't want to do it. I don't like answering the same question all the time, but I do understand how others would do whatever they possibly could to spend every waking minute in such a beautiful area.
That's the best I can do to explain my comment. Now before you think I have no appreciation for my homeland, it still does amaze me and take my breath away when I go back home after all these years. :)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Babeba
Janice, if you say, "I don't understand why some women wouldn't want to wear the things that I think are pretty", that's fine. It limits women to a certain box, however, even if it's not outright stereotyping.
The stereotyping comes with the oft expressed opinion, "Why don't women dress in a feminine manner anymore". This implies that a woman is not feminine unless she measures up to a CDer's standards of femininity.
Once again, Reine, your ability to say what I think better than I can express amazes me. :)
1] Mods are not imnipotent as much as we might like them to be. They simply cannot watch everything as it is being posted. Which means some "bad" posts might be seen by a new GG. I also think any GG "sharp" enough to come to this Forum of her own volition should be able to handle a bad post here or there especially if it is only a small percentage of the total responses. This IS a free Forum where people are supposed to express their opinion isn't it?
2]This thread is just one of several valid reasons WHY this site needs POLLS. Poll participants can be MADE to "be honest". A new GG would not even have to "risk" posting a question. She could have literally dozens of questions she might have right in front of her, all in one place. AND the answers. Maybe answers to questions that had not even occurred to her. Of course looking at a poll/survey might not answer specifics about HER guy but it would/could illustrate just what a huge spectrum exists.
It should be obvious to most at this Forum that some questions don't ever get asked. People could and would answer them in a poll/survey w/o their name attached I feel quite sure. Knowledge - truthful knowledge - IS power isn't it?
[SIZE="2"]As usual, I'm late to the "party." [/SIZE]:straightface:
[SIZE="2"]In many ways it should be called transgender.com, since we “ordinary” crossdressers are dumped on repeatedly by members of the GLBT community and confused individuals (like yourself)…[/SIZE]Quote:
Originally Posted by Silentpartner GG SO
[SIZE="2"]And she may NOT be. What on Earth is there to be frightened about, or angry about, or confused about, or hurt by? Crossdressing (the MtF variety) has been going on for a LONG time – how about accepting the fact that there is variance in the populace, and all types of human behavior exist under the Sun? It's called tolerance. Let me guess – she’s scared (or worried) that HE might be homosexual?[/SIZE]Quote:
The newly arrived GG is likely to be confused, upset, angry, hurt, frightened - all or any of those things and maybe more.
[SIZE="2"]I have a conscience, which is why I don’t respond to pleas for understanding from GG’s or SO’s. I’m unqualified to help someone who cannot fathom why a male would wear women’s clothing. Keep in mind that few people on this board understand why they crossdress. On top of this, we are engaged in a mainly self-ish enterprise that equates with pleasure, in all variations or definitions of that word, and YOU need to come here with that understanding first and foremost…Quote:
Does anyone really want it on their conscience that they may have driven away an SO/GG who was trying to understand YOU? who was trying to find a way to make her marriage work in the light of the revelation she has just had dropped on her? when she really was genuinely interested in finding out about what CD'ing was about and how it could fit into her marriage, her life and her relationship with her CD'ing SO?
From my perspective, you’re saying “NO” to us, and many GG's who visit this site are also firmly in the negative in regards to MtF crossdressing. With this in mind, it’s better to say nothing. I really don’t care if your marriage “works,” or if your relationship works in some predetermined correct way – I’m here to share the joy of crossdressing with other crossdressers who may feel the same way, and anything to the contrary is viewed by me as an unfortunate intrusion…[/SIZE]
[SIZE="2"]You’re rather naïve about discussion forums, I’m afraid – what do you expect? This place is, by and large, fairly benign, but beware of those who don’t care about anything, let alone helping someone like the aforementioned GG. Lurking (and reading) may be a better option at times, if understanding is truly your goal…[/SIZE]Quote:
Whilst nobody really expects everyone to wrap her in cotton wool and say "there there, everything is going to be fine" I really do not understand why some people think it is ok to reply to this plea for help with a downright nasty, put-down post.
Yes, the CDing has been going on a long time, but it has been and still is deeply closeted. Most of us in the outside world have no understanding of it except what is served to us by the media, which is not always accurate. Prior to having met a CDer (my friend's husband, before I knew my SO), I took it that all men who dressed were gay and I got this impression from the drag queens in gay parades.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
How can a GG be "tolerant" from the onset, of something about which she is misinformed? She joins here to ask questions. This is her form of research. She should not be lambasted.
Take care to not assume that all GGs say "NO", just based on a few GGs who are upset because of the reasons I state above or because they were in relationships with CDers who had honesty, faithfulness, and/or shopping compulsion issues.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
Have a look at these threads about supportive GGs, and my search does not produce all of them:
http://www.crossdressers.com/forums/...ccepting+wives
If you don't "care" about the CDers and their wives' issues here, then why should these same CDers "care" about bonding in a carefree and joyful way with you?Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
It's a big forum, Freddy. I hope you learn to live peacefully in it.
[quote]
And she may NOT be. What on Earth is there to be frightened about, or angry about, or confused about, or hurt by? Crossdressing (the MtF variety) has been going on for a LONG time – how about accepting the fact that there is variance in the populace, and all types of human behavior exist under the Sun? It's called tolerance. Let me guess – she’s scared (or worried) that HE might be homosexual?[\quote]
Generally if a partner takes this all in stride and is 100% on board from the start, no confusions or discomfort with her heteronormative values being challenged, she doesn't need to come to a site like this and doesn't bother. For me, I knew conceptually it was all okay but it was a BRAND NEW WORLD as far as I was concerned, and I didn't know what it truly meant so I wanted to learn what I was getting myself into. There were definitely things I was unsure about!
Having a contemptuous attitude about the people who simply have never been exposed to this stuff makes no sense. Especially not when they come here to learn more about what it all means to their relationship.
Someone came to the information centre where I worked and asked a pretty damn obscure question about the local landscape prior to the last glacial period and got all snooty when my coworker didn't know the answer off the top of his head - 'I would have thought they would have hired people who know what they were talking about here!' to me, treating the new (or older) GGs poorly makes the person doing so look as much of an idiot as that guy.
Also, many GGs get hurt by the feeling of being lied to or deceived about their partner when this information is disclosed later than they feel appropriate. It can be difficult to separate the hurt from feeling lied to from the confusion about the gender identity or clothes.
I know the site you are referring to Reine because I went there when I first found out. The GG's were non-accepting and after one or two posts I found that out and left. CD bashing was not what I went there for so I won't be back. Hopefully, not many other GG wives or SO's will go there first before coming here because that place scares the heck out of newly informed GG's and seems to cause a lot of divorces from what I've read.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
I personally didn't join this site saying "NO" to CD'ing, in fact I was just the opposite and have FULLY accepted my husband in this regard. Not every GG that joins here is saying "NO". In fact, a good number are either accepting or actively participating in their husband's dressing that are posting here.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
From my perspective, you’re saying “NO” to us, and many GG's who visit this site are also firmly in the negative in regards to MtF crossdressing. With this in mind, it’s better to say nothing.
SP, I agree with your sentiments in your OP. At the same time I think it can be healthy to have a wide variety of opinions.
how does a new GG sort out the crap from the useful posts that he / she can trust? I don't know the answer to that. Generally what I have noticed is that the really out of line stuff gets stomped on pretty quickly by everyone, members and moderators alike. As you point out, this tends to happen even more so in LO where there seems to be a strong support of SO's generally (justifiably in my opinion).
This site can be a little unwieldy at first. It is a bit like having to read the full service manual for your car when you just wan't to know how to change the battery or turn the lights on. Personally I think some of the smaller UK and Oz sites and forums can be little better in "easing" your way into it but they are not always easy to find.
I will concur wholeheartedly with your request that people think before they "submit". My mother always told me to think before I opened my mouth. Good general advice I think.
This has nothing to do with our beloved GG members. You all know how I feel about you, the GG's here. Love you all and would leave this site if there were no GGs with their input. But the thread title has meaning in another way. I recently posted my opinion on a story that a member posted and oddly enough the heading or title of the thread said "believe it or not" in it. Well I read the story and guess what? I didn't believe it and posted my opinion and why it seems like a fantasy or otherwise attention getting embellishment. So I wonder... Should I have ignored the post and moved on to the next one or should I have versed my opinion as to the truth or fantasy of this thread? Is this a good case for think before you post, or is it justified to call someone out on what we believe to be a made up story? Your opinion counts. And no, I will not be hurt and offended by your opinion.
Sort of depends on whether the post title was a genuine question or rhetorical (usually the latter). Also on the relationship with the poster.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRANDYJ
I must admit I tend to leave those alone in the hope they will just be buried along with the rest of the meaningless stuff that appears every so often.
If a CD has a strong feminine identity, uses a feminine name, and refers to self as feminine asks for responses to a post about the wife/SO, wouldn't it be insensitive to the CD to then use masculine pronouns when referring to that CD?Quote:
Originally Posted by BRANDYJ
Do posts about positive experiences from a CD need to be tempered so as not to alarm a new GG/SO? When a CD has posted such positive experiences in the past, I have never seen the scolding "knock it off - you might scare off the newbie SO's" - I've seen only supportive comments.Quote:
Originally Posted by BRANDYJ
Does support for the family/friends/SO's/GG's take a back seat to support for the CD? I hope not.
If the post was from the CD and NOT from his SO, then yes, I agree, it would be disrespectful. But it is NOT the CD that I or we are responding to, it's the new GG that came here for help and understanding. Now if the new GG referred to her husband as "she" or "her", then I would agree with you and might refer to her SO with fem pronouns. When GG refers to her crossdressing husband as a HE or Him, it's more disrespectful and potentially damaging to refer her husband/SO as a she.Quote:
Originally Posted by NicoleScott
Even the rare occasion that a CD refers to himself using male pronouns, then it to would be disrespectful to refer to him with feminine pronouns.
Yes, when they are not in direct response to the thread topic and can dis-sway someone's fears that her husband wants to dress 24/7. In my opinion it can be harmful and slpow her acceptance process down or halt it. So it then becomes a dis-servive to her CD husband.Quote:
Do posts about positive experiences from a CD need to be tempered so as not to alarm a new GG/SO? When a CD has posted such positive experiances in the past, I have never seen the scolding "knock it off - you might scare off the newbie SO's" - I've seen only supportive comments.
For this, we agree. I will always put the need for support toward the family/friends/SO's/GG'sQuote:
Does support for the family/friends/SO's/GG's take a back seat to support for the CD? I hope not.
Whatever this forum should be called, in your opinion, it is actually called "CROSSDRESSERS.com....The No 1 community for crossdressers, their family and friends" and the OP was constructing this thread within the context of this title and is, therefore, not a "confused individual" as you suggestQuote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
As an "ordinary" crossdresser I have not yet witnessed this "dumping on" that is refered to in your post but do find a wide assortment of views and opinions on the spectrum that we all inhabit....just as I would expect on this type of forum.
Where do you get the idea the OP is saying anything like "NO" to us...when no such statement was implied or inferred in anything written in the opening post or elsewhere.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
IMO virtually all threads I have seen posted by GG's have appeared to me to be positve, well thought through and heart-felt by the individual
I am pleased to hear that you are here to share the joys of Crossdressing with others.... that, after all, is what we are all here for....but that does also include the GG's who in my view add a level of evenhandedness to the proceedings making the forum all the richer for their involvement
Frederique, this reply seems to fall into the category of "...those who don't care about..." and appears to be nothing more than an overly interlectual attempt at just shooting down the GG's just because they are hereQuote:
Originally Posted by Frédérique
I'm really a little confused by this sub-topic of whether or not this is a good site for a GG. It seems that the argument is that GGs would feel more comfortable talking to GGs on an exclusive GG forum... Have y'all ever been to those forums?? I'm going to guess that you haven't. Exclusionary forums are usually excluding groups of people for a reason. They don't WANT crossdressers on that forum. It can be just as hateful as this forum in the MTF section...it seems like FTMs, lesbians, and GGs are generally stereotyped and disrespected on a regular basis. I'm not exactly sure how to show it...you either recognize it, or you don't...I'm not going to draw pictures for explanations. The reason I came here wasn't because I was frightened or hurt...and, I am probably more confused now than when I first came here lol. I just came here because I wanted to talk to other people about it. Again, SOs of CDs that are in the closet are JUST AS CLOSETED. When my SO told me about being a CD...I didn't really care to get involved on any forum. I was reading some book at the time (it might have been My Husband Betty), and it was talking about Tr-Ess meetings. I remember saying that I would feel more comfortable going out with a group of people...but, I noted that members of Tr-Ess were probably considerably older than me and my SO. I also didn't really care to go to like an organized meeting place...with speakers and planned activities. It sounds lame as Hell. I got bored one night and was looking up support sites. A lot of the sites were just sausage fests and webcamming. Most people assumed I was a CD. So, I got a bunch of messages that were like, "You are sooooooo pretty. I have been looking a long time for another pretty CD to play with...but, a lot of people just don't look that good. You look completely natural...do you want to chat?" And, this would be a little awkward, but I would usually reply with, "Hey, I'm in a relationship, but I am open to talk anyone. I'm also a GG...so, yeah...that's probably why I look really natural." And, then, no one would want to talk to me because I was a GG. (In other words, you are hot...but, I really was hoping for a penis). This was before I knew all about "penis fetishes," so I thought it was really very creepy. So, I stayed away from those sites. I also went to a GG site...and, it was really depressing. I understand having to rant...I need a good rant sometimes. And, I like to help other girls out...so, I would read a lot of stuff and try to respond. But, it bummed me out. The GGs here really ARE trying in their relationships...there is a lot of love here. I think all relationships have problems, but who else is there to turn to when you get pissed that your boyfriend stretched out your dress? (lol) The difference is that you can say what is bothering you here, and you will get helpful replies. It's not very helpful to paint this picture that all men are b*stards and that all CDs are just the epitome of selfish, stupid male behavior. It doesn't really happen here...and, if it does, it's usually pretty rare. I can actually only think of one GG that paints that picture for us sometimes in the Loved Ones section....but, I'm not sure she's even on this forum anymore. (She didn't get great reception or support from even the other GGs here). So, then, my SO found THIS site. I got on it, and I jumped right in with it. I liked talking about makeup and clothes...I posted a bit in the Loved Ones. My SO pretty much got the answers that he needed and left. I think he only sticks around to occasionally stalk my journal on here lol. But, for me, it was just nice to have people that I could talk to where TG conversation didn't have to be hidden. I learned a lot about issues regarding the male face and makeup. I learned a lot about breast forms, waist enhancements, and all kinds of other crap. I actually know more about CDing than my boyfriend who is actually the CD. Now that my SO is "out of the closet," I can talk to anyone about it. But, I have found that it is really hard to talk to people about this. It's not that they aren't accepting...it's not that I am shy about it...it's just that I know way more than they do...so, they aren't very helpful. So, in the end, it's just better to come here. In the meantime, I've met a lot of really cool people here that I know I can talk to about anything. And, they are always going to be more helpful because they actually know what I am talking about. Plus, I still have fun talking about gender issues, makeup, and clothes. ;)
So, when people get on here and diss GGs...or, unload trope after trope of sexist stupidity. I'll usually get snappy back with them. I won't just get lost and take my opinion elsewhere, because most of the time I have contributed more to this forum than the person in question. I've been down that road a few times where I get so pissed and offended that I give this forum the finger for a few weeks. But, inevitably, I'll get a PM from people that I like. If it's a person that also has contributed more than 2,000 posts to this community, maybe I'll pay more attention. So, until this site is no longer a "community" site that is open to ANYONE who cares about TG issues...I'll probably be around. If it becomes exclusive, it will either turn into a sausage fest or a parade of Debbie Downers...and, I was only on those types of sites for a hot minute before I peaced out.
This makes it pretty important to me that other non-trans people get a good reception here. It's important to people that are actually OUT in the community, walking around, and meeting people to have a level of understanding from non-trans people. I want people to understand, because it also makes MY life easier. I may not be trans, but I have to deal with pretty much everything that my SO deals with from other people. And, because I was raised as a female...I'm highly aware of how vulnerable we are when out and about. My SO may have no f*cking clue...but, I do. So, it's nice to know there are people that come here that aren't trans, and who may leave with a good opinion on trans people/trans couples. It's how opinions and views of communities are spread. This is why a couple of idiots that are louder than the normal people here really get on my nerves. I always think, "Ugh...that's going to be what someone leaves with...that all CDs are sexist pricks with a fetish for pricks, and who think every GG is jealous of them." This website actually came up in my sexuality class in college, and people used it for information for their research papers. The main forum was ALL that they saw. So, that's why I get my panties in a knot about it. The more non-trans people that are understanding and do not stare at my SO and I walking down the street, the better my night is going to be. I WANT people to come here that aren't trans and leave with a positive opinion. Sites that are exclusive or that focus on f*cking each other rarely accomplish anything noteworthy. I guess it's all about your level of expectation for the people around you. I have very high expectations of the trans community, because I know it's a community under the microscope right now. When people pull back from that microscope and are ready to make their "final judgement," it would be really awesome for me if it ended up something positive. It would make my life and the life of my SO much easier...and, we'd probably be going out a lot more.
Sorry, Shan, that was my fault. I'm the one who started it all by asking a stupid/naive question. Not the first time in my life I've done that, but I got my answer, and I'm quite happy with it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shananigans
I was looking at the issue from my own personal perspective: I wasn't dealing with an SO, but rather my son. I didn't think he'd be comfortable with this forum because he'd never seen me in girl-mode. So for him to come on this forum and see me in that way I thought would be a problem for him. In fact, he hasn't asked about this forum or about anything else for that matter.
That's what raised the question in my mind: would a GG be more comfortable starting with the Loved Ones forum or the MTF forum? The answer everyone gave me is that GG's will be comfortable enough here right off the bat (provided of course that they're given a proper welcome). I'm happy with that. I'm happy that GG's are comfortable here.
I'd like to repeat that I didn't intend in any way to suggest that I personally don't welcome GG's here. As far as I'm concerned, everybody's welcome here. I was simply looking at my own personal situation with my son and was wondering if it might apply to others. The answer I got was no, and as I've said, I'm quite happy with that.
Best wishes, Annabelle
Annabelle,
I don't think a lot of people here have parents that are TG. But, I have seen a mom or two on here supporting their sons. So, your son would be more than welcome, obviously. Sometimes, certain issues pop up on the MTF forum that could be a bit embarrassing to consider your parents being into...I think you catch my drift. I like to think of my parents as asexual creatures...if I have to put on my nurse hat...I will...but, that's as far as it goes lol. So, the Loved Ones section may be a good starting place if he wanted to join. But, I mean, he's obviously more than welcome anywhere. I even joined the FTM section just to be more knowledgeable, show support, and learn. So, you could just talk to him about it and note that this place is an option.
Oh, I more than catch your drift. You'd have to know my son. He's cool with things in ways and in other ways he's not. The idea that I'm TG doesn't bother him. But I don't think he wants to know any of the specifics. Not right now at any rate. I think he's going to need some time, maybe a lot of it, before he's ready to start dealing with that. That's why I found a forum for children of trans parents (transparent parents?) for him. Let him talk to other young people who are accepting of their parents, and he'll see it's not the end of the world.Quote:
Originally Posted by Shananigans
One of my contacts in a Trans organization here in Ireland suggested that some day he'll be proud and happy to wear a badge that says, "Somebody I love is transgender." I had to laugh at that. I think my son would be just as likely to wear a dress as he would that badge. As I said, he's cool with things in ways and not cool with them in other ways. You have to know him.
Annabelle