So if a lady has to have her overies removed and can no longer bear children then in your way of thinking she is no longer a GG. ??? get real DUDE
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So if a lady has to have her overies removed and can no longer bear children then in your way of thinking she is no longer a GG. ??? get real DUDE
Jeez I can't believe this thread is still going!Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances
Anyway I think the above quote brings up a good point Miss Brevard transitioned young so did not have a lot of the baggage that comes with being an adult like kids, current or previous marriage, old masculine career so on and so forth. God I wish I'd figured my self out 15 years ago but I didn't. I really don't see how I could successfully keep information like the existence of my kids or wife or the very masculine jobs I've worked from a prospective love interest. In my case not telling ever is simply not possible, there would just be way to many ways for said love interest to hear from someone else or simple put 2 and 2 together and figure it out on his own. So I personally would tell and would want to. I spent way to many years hiding who I was on a couple of fronts and would not want the liberation I have experienced to evaporate simply to allow someone else's false assumptions about gender to go unhindered. If this person decided they couldn't deal with that information then they were probably not a good match for me to begin with. The sad truth is that for a TS like myself, stealth is just not an option which will likely limit dating possibilities. That being said I'm not currently dating but have had several people interested in me 2 woman and 1 man all of whom Know of my status which is pre op so I guess I should have hope for the future if and when I start dating. This is my take on my personal situation this is not a lecture nor do I believe anyone else should feel the way I do. I think every TS has the right to go stealth if they feel that that is in their best interest. Who am I to tell anyone else how to live.
Hi everyone,
My membership just got approved (yay! hi!), so I can stop parasitizing Frances' posts ;)
That is all part of who you are, and will be among the reasons why someone will fall for you in the first place.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aprilrain
I love your attitude! Nothing beats self acceptance and self confidence.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aprilrain
The way you tell them (and choosing the right moment) will most likely make all the difference as well.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aprilrain
For me, being stealth is just a matter of not disclosing until it is necessary or otherwise worthy of interest. Like I always tell my daughter, I won't tell up front, but I won't lie when I'm asked. I see stealth mode as an "in the present" thing, certainly not as an absolute commitment or ideal to every possible situation in the future.Quote:
Originally Posted by Aprilrain
Where are the mods on this. This thread has been hijacked way beyond its original intent.
True, but it is a very important subject matter worthy of discussion.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurie Ann
This is a key point! Frances pointed out earlier that none of us must frame our own situation and experiences on any TS who makes the decision to go stealth. It's true that if someone transitions at a young age and she drop all her past ties, she will be in a much better position to do so than a person who is still in touch with their past through kids and other family members. How would Brevard's husbands ever have known, unless there was a fluke medical emergency?Quote:
Originally Posted by Aprilrain
When discussing concepts, most people have a sketchy "general" situation in mind and so I'm guessing that the people who are in favor of telling believe that "most" TSs do not completely cut their ties to their past. So maybe a consensus can be reached here, which is that it would be prudent to tell a husband if even there is an off chance he might find out from someone else, and if there is absolutely no way he would ever know (other than sheer fluke), then it is safe to not tell?
I'm not this section's mod, although I am a general forum mod. It is true that after congratulating Julie on her positive experiences, the thread did turn into a discussion of whether or not to tell, or when, which is something that Julie mentioned in several of her posts here. The discussion is not off topic at all.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurie Ann
It is a controversial issue and maybe other people in Julie's shoes will get some benefit from reading all the points discussed here.
If Julie becomes tired of the discussion before the thread dies a natural death, she can always PM one of the mods and request that it be closed. Until then, people should feel free to post their opinions, as long as they are made respectfully and without flaming anyone.
The subject may be interesting if so it belongs in its own thread not lumped into a post which has a different topic altogether. This took a wrong turn when individuals went off with their own agenda of what should or should not be done. If the topic is that germaine to a pre or post op transwoman start a thread for that do not go on for 5 pages of personal opinions. Remember opinions are like a**holes everyone has one and they all stink. Let's move this away to its own dedicated thread.
What agenda? Pointing out transphobic comments? It took 6 posts for ugliness to rear its head. I for one would have gladly simply congratulated Julie, but hateful words were spoken. There is a disclusure thread already, but the flow of this conversation is different. Even Julie felt the need to defend herself from perceived attacks. Why are you so concerned with the life of this particular thread? You could choose not to read or post in it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurie Ann
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laurie Ann
I'm a tenacious sort, and I'd like to point you to two of Julie's statements that people here are responding to:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zenith
Laurie, you are the person who is attempting to deflect the thread by arguing on whether people should address Julie's points or not. If you wish to discuss it with me or anyone else further, please do it via PM. If you persist on doing it in this thread I will have no choice but to delete all the discussion surrounding the merits of having this discussion. :pQuote:
Originally Posted by Zenith
There is no brightline answer here; it seems to depend on the person and the situation.
For those who take the position that you don't have to ever tell, what happens if you’re married or in a long-term relationship and you are in an accident or diagnosed with prostate cancer or something similar? Your s/o finds out that you are transsexual in a moment of extreme stress possibly at a time when immediate medical decisions need to be made. I think Reine is correct and the fact you are transsexual isn't the issue, but the feeling of being betrayed, lied to, not trusting of your s/o enough to tell them, will be a big issue for the s/o. I know many of you will say this is statistically a small chance, but imagine the thousands of people who had to identify their s/o after the twin towers. Learning your s/o was post-op trans would devastate many people. Doesn't matter whether it's right or wrong, feelings just are. To those who take the position that they should never tell, if you love someone, consider the pain you could cause them by not trusting them enough to tell all about yourselves.
The general opinion seems to be the past shouldn't matter, but at the same time Melody is judging Linda on her past. I think the past is part of what makes us who we are today. I was kidnapped and raped as a child. There are certain things I won't do and certain things that affect how I feel and think because of it. If I want who I am with to be a possible long-term friend or a possible physical partner, I am not going to wait until the first hot and heavy kiss and then start discussing it. So, yes, I do talk about it. It affects not only the bedroom, but my opinions on child abuse, on men, on mothers (who allow this to happen); my opinion on many social issues and things we see on TV everyday. For a person to understand me, it helps to understand where I am coming from and why. I had no control over it; it wasn't my fault, any more than having been given the wrong chromosomes is your fault; yet there are a lot of emotional issues tied up in it and that makes it part of who I am. If you leave your past out of your relationships that matter, are you not denying part of who you are and denying the other person the opportunity to really know and understand you as a person?
The fact that I have no embarrassment about saying that my spouse is transsexual to my spouse is a positive thing. As a result, I have had the opportunity to answer questions from friends and promote acceptance and understanding. One thing we do know is that prejudice is often based in and promoted by ignorance. I understand you don't want to be a poster child for GID, but not everyone feels that way.
We are all entitled to opinions, I expressed my opinion about Linda how I see it - extremely hypocritical.Quote:
Originally Posted by lizlizzie
And Lizzie, there is nothing to suggest that things have changed & here he is giving advice to others.
Sorry, but that type of crap don't cut it with me & I am sure it doesn't carry any weight for others here.
We all seem to agree that if you are going to be entering a serious relationship with someone then it's important to
be honest to the person you are meant to love. And here is Linda, married, preaching to others while lying & virtually
cheating on his wife & wearing her clothes behind her back. Sorry if you don't like what I have to say but this is my
most honest opinion which is backed up by the evidence of his own statements that I feel needs to be expressed here.
Linda is a cross-dresser (which is fine) but the truth whether we care to admit or not, he still in the closet
& obviously has little to no understanding of what it's like to be a 'transsexual' female. He has absolutely no
experience to speak of when it comes to advising the TS community. There is no way that he understands
the issues that affect us or how we see ourselves. Even though I am still pre-op I see myself like any other
female who can't have kids, but I wouldn't be so rude to force my opinion down the throat of someone that
is further into their journey than I am. This is not meant to be any sort of a flame, its just revealing the truth.
So I am not judging him (Linda) on his past at all, I am judging by what I see here & now!
Last time Julie posted, it sounded like things were going well; I hope they still are!! :-)
As a GG dating a male who is still figuring out how much of his gender is male and how much/when that female side comes out, I see biological sex as being (in most people, not counting intersexed individuals) fixed as "F" or "M", but gender as being more of a continuum, with most people clustered near one end or the other regardless of their sex. From the outside holding hands with a person who is in some way trans, I expect it (as in, finding out about our partner's past or present or future) works similarly for all of us - it may affect us and make us re-evaluate our view of the world, and it may or may not be an emotional time for us to work through. The head space of a CDer vs a transwoman or transman seems to be very different - but it's more difficult for us on the outside to see that without experience, and I'm afraid that most cisgendered people don't quite realise yet what all the stuff inside is about.
Melody, I didn't see Linda's post as crap at all and I think you are being harsh. There was no malice or petty intent in her words, just her opinion based on her own experience, which is what we all do here. Have you considered that Linda might be suffering tremendously from the pain of not having told her wife and she's only wanting to spare others the same pain? And if this is true, how do you think she feels about your attempt to ridicule and abase her? Where's your compassion?
Although I think that for the most part, this has been a very good discussion, there have also been some very sexist and hypocritical comments made.
If any of the CDs were posting out of concern that someone not make their mistake, they could have prefaced the remarks with something like "I did not tell and now regret it" and their tone could also have been less judgemental. One of them was asked if they had any relevant experience to contribute, but ignored that question and declared themself "realistic". If their post had been made out of concern that others not repeat their mistake then this would have been the ideal opportunity to say so.
I wouldn't go so far as some who have said that CD's are only "pretending to be female", I believe that an identity CD is genuinely expressing part of their personality when they present as female, but the point that they then go back to presenting as male definitely does obtain and makes it very difficult to make a true comparison between a man who sometimes feels the desire to present himself as a member of the opposite sex and a woman who needed surgery to correct a birth defect.
The fact is that it is always difficult to know how much to tell someone and at what point in a relationship, but calling someone out for not telling all on a first date, using cissexist definitions of what constitutes a "real woman", accusing people of deceit or worse still "entrapment" do not help anyone and are at best examples of projecting one's own fears onto another person and at worst manifestations of hatred.
This is a difficult issue. I appreciate the civil discourse. Things are going well. We have had six dates and he introduced me to some of his friends during a screening, then we all went out afterwards. A GG in the group told me it was a good sign. Re-iterating again...it's just so nice to be Julie...that's it...Julie...trans just fades...the nicest moments are when I even forget. I still haven't figured out what to say. I guess there is a part of me that wants to enjoy being together in the moment...
Thanks for the update Julie. Enjoy it as much as possible, and hopefully it will all work out for both of you.
I'm glad your having a good time, Julie, and I'm also glad you can just be yourself. :hugs:
Rianna, maybe I'm more naive than I should be, but when I read discussions like this my perception is that they take on a more general, conceptual tone. Even if it done in Julie's thread it is not about accusing Julie of any misdeed.
We're talking here about a fairly new concept, at least it is new for many of us who do not know more than a dozen people who have fully transitioned, and how many are young enough and beautiful like Julie to have absolutely no physical trace of having been born XY? (Even when I use words like "chromosomes" or "birth sex" I shudder to think that I may be using the wrong term, yet since I don't move in the same circles as the rest of you and have not had all the doctor's appointments, I'm not quite sure what is the best term to use that will not offend anyone).
This is a discussion about the ethics of disclosure, as I see it, and it should be treated as such, with all the different viewpoints exposed without taking anything personally. It is a learning experience, not an exercise in people-bashing, and the people who stand to learn should not, in my view, be blamed because their understanding is not as deep as the transsexuals who are living through this.
:2c:
Julie, I am really glad for you that the relationship is progressing so well and don't envy your quandary about if and when to tell him that you are TS. At least it is not quite as devastating as the problem raised in the thread Ethical Dilemma :heehee:
Reine, I agree with you that the thread has branched out beyond Julie's problem to a more general discussion on what people should disclose about their past and at what stage in a friendship. It was in this spirit that I gave the example from when I was living in Paris. The GG in that example was very afraid that the man she had fallen for would reject and blame her for having been raped as a child, it was only when she could accept that she was not at fault that she felt able to tell him.
I use the term "birth sex" as a shorthand for "sex ascribed by the doctor at birth", but I don't think that any TS who has taken part in this thread would feel offended by you not knowing their preferred expression. I have never had any difficulty with people who say "I don't know" or "I don't understand", but I have very little tolerance for someone who in word or in deed says "I have no wish to understand". I feel that is the attitude that was shown by one poster whose attack on Julie was very definitely personal.
As always I appreciate the thoughtful and supportive contributions from you and from Babeba. Even though I feel that the comparison between CDs and TS folk is a difficult one, I can understand why it was being made.
Speaking for myself, I have not taken anything personally although some of the negative remarks about TS folk have been made in a very personal manner.
Hi ,Zenith.
I think its so wonderfull that ....YOU ....can have this nice chap take an interest in you as your friend said go with it ,
just because some of us where born with out a womb does not change who we are as women or female intersexed , any way thats not the issue , the issue is be accepted as who you are ,
Have a good time & when it leads on to more. youll know when & what to say .
Hey you are a woman like i am so as i was told very strongly .....be one ....even tho our bodys are different ,we are who we are.
Enjoy the time to gether & let the flower blossom, have fun, you know what , im really pleased for you,
...noeleena...
I have been sitting back and following this thread because it is very interesting to me the different thoughts on the subject from town to town and country to country. In all, there is a very strong concern about not being accepted. That has been true in the past. Since about 2005 there has been an opening of minds around the world. Slowly, society is becoming more and more accepting of being Transgendered in all that term covers. There is more educational opportunity through the media and by those in the community being out in plain view.
Julie, I am happy for you to get to be yourself with what sounds like a great guy.
I believe that "stealth" is an over used term. There are also varying degrees of stealth. Juliette has it right in saying it is just a matter of not disclosing until it is necessary or otherwise worthy of interest. I have only revealed my situation to anyone twice in 20+ years. #1 to my husband before we got married and had sexual relations for the first time. #2 to my doctor before a surgery I had to have. Otherwise, it is nobodys business.
Now if you are going to spread your legs for every man that comes along, it might be a diffrent story.
It is incredibly difficult - and a reason why I don't post in here very much, as I don't know much about TS folk's experiences! Yet I think there are SOME similarities, at least with CDers and TS folk who are not fully transitioned, in terms of how that looks to the outside world. Most spouses/partners of CDers seem to ask, 'are you gay?' and 'do you want to become a woman?' when they find out. Clearly, some people on here seem to feel that once a transwoman has finished correcting the outside to match the inside there is still some 'maleness' she can't seem to scrub out and erase - I expect this assumption is just as erroneous as thinking that all people who crossdress want to transition.Quote:
Originally Posted by Rianna Humble
LOL... Of course in that case you're much less emotionally involved, so you might want to skip the disclosure step! :2c: (just kidding!)Quote:
Originally Posted by Jorja
That is a popular misconception, and is probably why some people hold these prejudices. The trans people that are often seen in the media, at least in my country, are the ones that do not pass well or well enough to be stealth. Since they cannot hide it, they put it on the table, so to speak, for everyone to see. They want to be activists, are motivated by fear, wish to be famous or just need to be heard in order to feel like they exist.Quote:
Originally Posted by Babeba
There are lots of other trans people in society. They are cashiers, mecanics, doctors, bus drivers, etc. They are invisible, living stealthily in cis-culture. Opinion about trans people and their need to inform others about their misfortunate birth defect is based on a pervasive idea that they cannot utlimately pass. Only noticeable trans people exist in people notion of transexuality, while stealth trans people are, for all intents and purpose, cis-integrated, and do not feel or need to disclose what was.
Frances or anyone else, would you have any statistics? In Canada (or the US), do you know how many SRS surgeries have been performed during the last 10 years? I'd love to know if the information is available.Quote:
Originally Posted by Frances
... although, someone can certainly be stealth without having undergone surgery if they are single, or only their partner could know if they are in a relationship, but I don't know how widely spread this is. I also understand that surgery for FtMs is not as advanced as it is for MtFs and there are transmen who live their male lives without having had it. So all these people would not be included in the numbers.
The numbers I've read come from Lynn Conway's site and she estimated in 2002 that approximately 2,000 surgeries were performed annually, in the US and abroad, on US citizens. I wonder how much higher the numbers are now.
Fortunately or unfortunately, depending on your perspective, there are few statistics for nearly everything trans, and for several reasons (the desire for privacy being among them).Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
If your goal is to fully transition and just live your life then submitting to the pokes and prods of pollsters, grad students, sexologists and every other class of intellectual wannabee just hinders that process. And I don't believe it's simply a trans thing, either. I am part of several societal subsets and I just don't want to be bothered just because someone else has a thesis to get written. My life is just more valuable to me living it than it is being a set of data on a clipboard. Now, if I actually believed that my participation would help a trans person on their way toward their new life, that might be different.
Surgery figures are very hard to come by, and estimates are all we have. There really is no way of knowing how many surgeries are performed overseas, and besides, not every TS opts for surgery. Two good friends of mine are non-op, so the criteria of surgery does not adequately address TS issues other than those dependent on that particular data point.
So those cashiers, mechanics, doctors, etc may be pre-op, post-op, non-op, non-HRT, intersexed, etc. Yet they are trans, have participation in society and go about their business like anyone else.
I asked someone how many trans people she has met in her life, and while she was trying to come up with a number I helped her with the answer, which is "More than you think you have."
Exactly. Which is why I'm having such difficulty with the word "stealth" (and "disclosure"). I was "stealth" (or close enough) long before SRS to most people in my everyday life, after SRS I was "stealth" also to some men I dated, but I never was and never will be "stealth" to my dad or to my daughter. It's all very relative, and imho being stealth ultimately only refers to how you are perceived by strangers you meet every day -- and how the people that know talk about you (pronouns and such).Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
The only figure I've heard of, and pls add or correct if anyone knows more, is that 1 out of every 500 people would have or have had gender issues - which would include every possible state of transition. That would mean that a LOT of people would be perceived as cis in society (as Michelle is saying), but in their personal lives, I would assume they aren't "stealth" to absolutely everyone.
That's probably as valid as any. One report said 1:1000, another said 1:100. I have no idea what the study criteria were, but if that included every possible transition state I'd accept 1:500. If it included ever possible transgender state I could believe 1:100.Quote:
Originally Posted by JulietteLeblanc
I'll take Juliette's 1:500 as a pretty good figure.
I'm taking this a little off topic, but participation in any study does ultimately benefit the members of the trans community. It is the studies that change things like the definitions in the DSM.Quote:
Originally Posted by Michelle.Martin
i wonder if the words trip up the reality..."stealth" is just a word..."disclosure" "hiding", "lies" "deceit" ...ugh...these are all words that are used when talking about our lives....
but maybe they don't do a good job describing what is really happening..
we are born in a gender role that often ends up destroying our quality of life.....so many of us change our birth gender role and try to live a high quality of life...
but the reality is every single day of your life, it's possible as a TS that the past encroaches on your happiness and quality of life..there is no way around this...
and you just have to deal with it...
and just like it deeply matters to us, to me it makes sense that people care about the genders of their friends/lovers etc....
if a friend/lover/coworker finds out about our male past, they will usually react...and their reaction can be many things and some reactions may even be violent...it's a challenge...and once the person knows...it's forever...and once one person knows, oftentimes everybody knows...
and we just have to deal with it..
just because we feel we are in the right doesnt mean its easy to lose a lover or a job over being outed....and whether we like it or not..people's feelings are often hurt if they "find out"
those two things are tough to handle and it's a very unpredictable problem...it can be a stressful thing..we can say who cares what others think, but that's easier said than done...nobody wants to lose a friend or a lover or even a job just because of who you are..
I have been lurking in this thread, trying to educate myself for something I hope to be a reality in the future. From a very selfish prospective it will be a great lose to us younger girls for you to leave but I understand if you decide otherwise. As to the orginal question and intent, you rock girl.......go for it.
I can buy that up to a point. A commissioned study presented as such before some entity (AMA, APA, WPATH) that would have impact on the community - sure. An end of course thesis to complete one person's degree requirement - probably not.Quote:
Originally Posted by ReineD
And besides (to get back on track, because I'd feel guilty if I let the thread stray) the issue behind my reluctance to participate in a study is personal privacy as a basis for being stealth, or at least stealth-y. And that's the thing that makes it possible to just live your life as a woman, as a normal person and not as some circus sideshow or test subject or some trans organism in a really big petri dish.
I'm not a set of data. I'm a person. And while I'm all for helping people understand I can also do that one on one.
This thread is supposed to be about Julie's date with a guy, not an arguement about when she should tell him that she is trans. She has already stated in the original post that she will tell him before it becomes intimate, I don't see why she has to tell him before then. If he is genuinely intersted then that shouldn't be an issue, everyone has a past life before they start dating.
All i have to say is congrats Julie :hugs:
I plead with all who are participating into turning this into a rather heated debate: Please stop. Take a deep breath, and ask yourself "Is it really worth getting my blood pressure up about someone else's opinion?"
Zenith, I am very happy for you. Tthere are no right or wrong answers to the dilemma you face. You'll know when to tell him. :hugs:
I have two iron-clad rules:
1 - thou shalt not post thy bigoted words in my forum;
2 - thou shalt not troll thy bigoted words in my forum.
Words of advice are wonderful no matter a person's opinions, but hostile ignorance is never welcome.
Okay now, back to the topic at hand:
I'm beyond happy for you, Julie, and I hope your relationship with Mr. X proves to be all you want from a relationship. :hugs:
Melody,Quote:
Originally Posted by Melody Moore
You have gone to a great deal of trouble attempting to discredit me. You have looked up my past posts and quoted some of them in this attempt. You have insulted me by calling me names. I believe this crosses the line.
I should feel honored that anyone would consider me or my opinions important enough to go to all this trouble.
I suspect though, that for some reason, you just don't like me. I can't think of anything I've ever posted that would make you feel this way, but quite honestly, I haven't, given your posts the same consideration that you have apparently given mine.
I don't believe it's a requirement of this forum to be transgender or anything else for that matter. GGs are allowed to post, CDs are allowed to post, and I suppose anyone who can be somewhat polite and has something to say is allowed to post.
A discussion forum where everybody just echoed the same opinion on every issue would be a waste of time. I know I don't need to join a forum just to see everybody agreeing with me or patting me on the back.
My advice to the OP was just that; my advice. It differes from your advice and from the advice posted by several memebers, yet I feel I am entitled to post it for the OP to consider.
In this case, I'm posting from the perspective not of someone who is transgendered or spends a lot of time in the company of gay, lesbian, or transgendered people, but of someone living in the "mainstream" of society. If I understand the OP, she is dating someone from "mainstream" society. Someone who may not know a lot about CD, transgender, etc.
That's where my advice comes from and all I ask is the right to post it without a bunch of hateful responses.
Thank You.
Linda, first of all I have gone to no trouble & never was it my intention to discredit you - you did that to yourself
in your own hypocritical statements - so you cannot blame me. I read quite a few of your posts at the time when
you posted them although I never interjected into those discussions because it was something that is your issue
& that only 'you' could deal with. Finding these posts with the statements you made was very easy, so it was no
trouble at all, so don't flatter yourself in thinking that I went to a whole lot of trouble because of you because I didn't.
As for not liking you, you are wrong about that, I don't dislike anyone. I only dislike certain behaviours and it happens
that hypocritical & dishonest behaviour is one thing I am not really fond of. Frances asked you a question of you were
transsexual, because if you are not, then I am afraid to say that you don't understand why it is so important for some
of us to be just accepted as females. There has been good argument here why we don't have to reveal our past to other
people. I am one of those who believes that 100% honesty is important, so anyone that gets really close to me will know,
but still, it is my prerogative if I chose to disclose that information. So I respected both those that disclose & those that
choose not to disclose their past or their desires & also respected you even though you haven't disclosed anything to
your partner. That is fine if that is your thing, but don't be standing there on a soapbox telling others what to do when
you cannot practice what you preach OK? especially when you don't really appreciate their perspective as transsexual
females. Others here also had issues with it and it's why Frances said that you were "projecting your own feelings on
Julie's love interest(s). And so was Rebecca.". Also Michele Martin pointed out "That projection of fear is the basis of
what we'd call transphobic".
You will be quite surprised how many transgender people are transphobic, there will be times that some people might
have real fears about others knowing about who we were in the past. I also think you are one of those people Linda,
you are transphobic because you don't want someone to know that you are a cross-dresser. So it's safe to say that
you also fall into this category, There are some out there as well that want to be 100% stealth that could also fall
into this category as well. However it is also harder to determine if they are transphobic because there are those
that just want to be seen, accepted & respected no different to other females. So you can't just accuse someone.
Even though I am one of those who doesn't want to be seen differently to other females, I don't believe that I am
personally transphobic because I have no fear & don't really care if someone knows I am transsexual. But having said
that I am not exactly going to go around advertising that fact & will only tell those that needed to know such as family
& close friends etc. And if someone questioned my gender, then depends who is asking, I might explain, because I have
no reason to lie, but I also have no need to really tell them anything.
But having said that, there are situations where there are legal limitations to how much information people can glean
from you, this is especially the case when it comes to employers. In a lot of places, (especially in Australia) nowadays
employers have no legal right to be questioning your gender identity due to new human rights/anti-discrimination & work
place laws. If they did this, then it raises the question of discrimination of a person because of their gender identity.
So as Frances pointed out to you earlier, "not telling upfront doesn't equal lying", especially about your past. Even
you are not required to tell anyone that you are a cross-dresser because that is also defined as being transgender.
Laws have been changed to cater for those of us who are transgender, especially those who are TS and/or post op where
they can get the gender markers changed on every documents including drivers licences, birth certificates & passports etc.
This is so our gender markers all match up to help avoid discrimination or dealing with humiliating situations. There is no
requirement in law to divulge that we are transgender or transsexual, instead the laws are there to protect us & our rights.
So what makes you think that anyone else the right to have to know about someone's past, or former gender identity?
I think is all that really matters is what is going on here & now & in the future, especially in your own life Linda.
If a guy falls for Julie for the person she is, seeing her & accepting Julie as a female, then that is the person her
boyfriend is more than likely falling in love with. The past has very little to do with it & it won't have any real impact
on their relationship if this guy understands that Julie cannot have kids. However even that still does not necessitate
the need to know about Julie's past because she as been born with a gender defect that prevents her from having kids.
Hey I just realised something, let me share part of my story with you, I never though about this until now.
My second last partner who I was married to for 5 years couldn't have kids, because apparently she had had a complete
hysterectomy sometime before I met her when she was just 33 years of age, but she already had 2 sons by the age of 18.
So she could have been their father & also a MtF transsexual who transitioned in her late teens & early 20's for all I know.
Who knows? her 2 sons could have fully adjusted to her role now as their mother. She was also Bisexual. I never had a
reason to question her about her gender before & not that it really ever mattered anyway & I certainly don't care now.
My main point is that even though my ex-wife couldn't ever have kids to me. It didn't make her any less a woman,
so being trans is no different to any of this. I don't see any reason really why Julie should even have to reveal her
past as a transsexual, because Julie is by now all legal & medical definition a 'female'.
Sigh..., I guess some people just want to ignore the thread itself and insult the original poster and the majority of forum members with nonsensical bickering that would be better placed in a personal message.
I'm seriously getting fed up having to moderate behavior around here, folks!:Angry3: