Is it just me? please read with caution

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Originally Posted by Jonianne

I don't know how to help him find the peace he desires.

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That's the whole deal. Nobody really knows how to help someone in this situation find peace. Not therapists, other CD's, etc. I can't count the number of times I've had someone tell me "well, just accept yourself". Well, duh...it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. The million dollar question is - how do we do that when every fiber of our being tells us CD-ing is wrong? Is CD-ing really worth the shame, guilt, self-loathing it brings upon us? or is it easier to just not CD? There is no easy answer. And no easy explanation.
yes, I'm sure some of you will say I've really over-complicated this whole thing. Sorry, just trying to keep it real.

I haven't read all the replies here, so if I repeat some already mentioned thoughts, please forgive me.

To address the original post of "curse within" - I once was where you are now, more or less. I think a lot of us started out like that - especially with the guilt thing.

I am not yet where I want to be, but a couple of years ago I decided to start moving forward and allowing myself to acknowledge what I am and that it is not a disease or mental illness. Most of society is not accepting of mtf crossdressers, but they were also once not accepting of the idea of a (real) woman voting or driving a car or even wearing pants! :eek:

I started shaving and going beyond the "guilt sessions". I stopped hating myself for the things I enjoyed doing. I came out to my wife and she's been exceptionally supportive of my crossdressing and even encourages it. In that regard, I consider myself very lucky as I know I a lot of wives are not accepting of cd husbands and that really bothers me.

I have a long way yet to go, but I will continue to move forward, if only in baby steps. I'm kicking myself for not pushing the go button years ago. How much better life could have been if only I stopped fighting myself years ago. What a horrible waste of time.

I hope you can some day free yourself of your dreaded "curse" and allow yourself to enjoy the beautiful feminine side you've been blessed with. You've been programmed from a young age to not be accepting of this kind of thing. Society won't accept us any time soon, but I accept you and so does every other girl (or guy if you prefer) who posted here.

There are a lot more crossdressers out there than any of us will ever know about. Just like I was a couple of years ago, they will not allow themselves to acknowledge their feminine side or even to look up places like this on the internet.

Let go of the crap your mind has been filled with and accept yourself. I bet that guilty feeling you experience will start to fade once you do. :)

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Originally Posted by Gabrielle Hermosa

Let go of the crap your mind has been filled with and accept yourself. I bet that guilty feeling you experience will start to fade once you do.

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Right....
Did I just say how many times I've heard that?
easier said than done for some of us.

Hi. Everyone else seems to have chimed in on this already, so what I say here isn't going to matter much. I didn't want to leaf through five pages of this stuff, so I didn't read all the responses, twists, turns, and hijacks. Anyway, I don't know how old you are, but I remember sorta feeling the same way you do once. So for what it's worth, here goes.

Facts about me or people like me who will not accept Crossdressing but can't always control the urges.

1. We stay in the closet , do not wish to be seen most of the time by anyone.

This is true, at least it is for me. I'm not sure about people who don't know me already, but I don't let this out to people I know.

2. We perfer not to go by a female name and wish not to be adressed as a she.

Where, here? Or do you mean everyday with everyone we know? When I'm here, I like being addressed as "she", because as sure as it's my virtual self here, when I'm on this forum, I'm usually a chick. When I'm not dressed, or banging the Forum, I'm a guy, and I am addressed that way.

3. We feel quilt , shamed and depressed after we dress.

I did, but not really anymore. I was in my twenties and early thirties when I felt that way. And since dressing usually ended in an erotic way, I think the rush of testosterone at copulation caused a surge of "male-ness" in my head, and made me feel self-loathing and shame as I undressed and got back to male-mode. I learned to feel differently about it, and for the most part, I don't feel that way anymore.

4. We do not wear bras,forms,makeup or shave in areas that females are known to shave..

Au contraire, mon ami. I keep my legs trimmed, not shaved. But there are a whole lot of us who excercise the privilege of shaving their legs. I thin out the forest as much as I can and still get away with it. I just posted a thread on shaving our pits, and it turns out that a great many of us do that. As for other areas...well, not all women shave there, either. And I'm guessing that a lot of men do. Chest and back? Not a problem for me. Neither is my ....uh.....behind. As for wearing bras, forms, makeup and stuff, I absolutely do when I'm dressing as a woman. Otherwise, because I'm a man, I don't. Why is this an issue?

5. Dressing is sometimes or most times a sexual fetish.

Yeah, it can be. But for most of us, I think, it grows into something more.

6. Have nothing in common with most in this MTF forum, because we do not want to be females or act out being females.

Don't want to be female? Don't want to act out being females? One at a time, g'friend. I want to be female. But I'm not, and I'm not going to do anything about it. And what do you mean by "act out"? You mean sex? You're right, I don't want to "act out". But then, there are some here who do. Everyone's different. Just like you! As for having nothing in common with most in this forum, well, I don't know much about you. But you're here for a reason that resonates with most of us here.

So I'd not be all bitter about it, spouting and pouting. One of these days you'll come to grips with your transgenderism, and you'll feel better, too. Here's to hoping that happens sooner than later. Hang in there.

I was just thinking of a better way to approach this subject so one more time. Maybe I should have did this from the start and by no means am I pointing at any one person ..Just take this to heart, humor it if you must but no offence ..

I started a Thread a few months back called "is this place really supportive"? This one is related kinda. Keeping in mind my post here and those who understood ,I will give a few examples or senarios. Lets just say a new member came to this forum, this member either has been Married or in a relationship for 5 years and has never told his S/O he was a lifetime CDer.........

He..( I am saying he because that's how he refers to himself) has never really accept his CDing has always felt a shame of it and does not understand why he has the urges.He just battled it the best he could and gave in when the world was just too much to handle or had too many irons in the fire to fight it anymore.

While he was away his wife or s/o finds his stash and demands some answers..( This forum is very excellent at doing that sort of thing as far as support). He tells he it was something he just experimented, ( no spell check) she is broken hearted, confussed, pissed and wants a divorce. We all have heared that story. Now lets just say they decided to work through it, they love each other so much but the wife s/o DOES NOT WANT any part of it or has set some boundries. If she doesn't want any part of it and he hates in his life so much he feels he can Stop at that moment and time! He tells her "It was just something tried no worries I will never do it again". She says "great or its a divorce "..

He loves her soooo much and she is everything in the world to him and is doing his best to stop , he did so well for 6 months but doesn't know how much longer he can last.. so he comes here looking for support ..

"What do you do to fight off these urges he Threads"..

What is your replies?

Now our new member who wishes this gift would just go away isn't here to hear how great it is to X-dress.He has never wanted it in his life before he met his wife and up to the time he posted the thread..He wants to honor his wifes wishes..

How would you answer or support that? Knowing what I know now I would go to the loved ones section but him being new wouldn't know that.

Just a thought

Thanks

C.W.

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Originally Posted by MarcieM

Right....
Did I just say how many times I've heard that?
easier said than done for some of us.

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You're absolutely correct. We're all different people with different abilities, skills, mindsets, and opinions.

There are crossdressers who were light years beyond where I am now before they were 20 (I'm well beyond 20). There are crossdressers who finally came to terms with who and what they are in midlife. There are crossdressers who will never allow themselves to accept who and what they are and will always think of their urges as some kind of horrible disease they wish they could be rid of and they will take that to their death bed.

I'm no expert on this and won't pretend to be, but when I accepted who and what I am, a lot of guilt and self-hatred went away. There's still the social intolerance that I must work around and that's not easy. To be honest, it scares the hell out of me.

I'm sorry that you and many other people find it so difficult to accept yourself. A lot of people don't accept themselves for a zillion other reasons too. Maybe they don't think they're good enough, smart enough, or too ugly, or have a drug addiction they can't shake, etc.

I truly hope the day comes when you can accept who and what you are. And if it does not, I pray that you will at least find some way to come to terms with those parts of your being that you want to be rid of.

My road in life has never been an easy one and there are many things I choose not to share with people in a public forum. Life's kicked my ass all over the place, but I'm still alive and I'm still fighting. I'm not perfect. I don't have my life all together. I'm not even close to where I want to be in life. I'm working on it though. Maybe I've got one or two things worked out in my life that you don't yet. I bet you've got things worked out in your life that other people haven't yet as well.

One way or anther, I hope you can find the peace you need in your life. :)

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Originally Posted by MarcieM

That's the whole deal. Nobody really knows how to help someone in this situation find peace. Not therapists, other CD's, etc. I can't count the number of times I've had someone tell me "well, just accept yourself". Well, duh...it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. The million dollar question is - how do we do that when every fiber of our being tells us CD-ing is wrong? Is CD-ing really worth the shame, guilt, self-loathing it brings upon us? or is it easier to just not CD? There is no easy answer. And no easy explanation.
yes, I'm sure some of you will say I've really over-complicated this whole thing. Sorry, just trying to keep it real.

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I would say you nailed it...

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Originally Posted by curse within

I was just thinking of a better way to approach this subject so one more time....

He tells her "It was just something tried no worries I will never do it again". She says "great or its a divorce "..

He loves her soooo much and she is everything in the world to him and is doing his best to stop , he did so well for 6 months but doesn't know how much longer he can last.. so he comes here looking for support ..

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I don't believe this scenario has a happy ending.

If I understand correctly, the question is how can a crossdresser fight the need to crossdress so that his unaccepting wife (or SO), who means everything to him, does not leave him.

The answer is probably A) he will learn how to be more careful in the future because crossdressing is something one can not be "cured" of. B) An ugly divorce will ensue. I say ugly because divorce is never easy and often causes financial hardship in addition to the emotional devastation.

I am one of the lucky ones because my wife is accepting. For those who have a wife or SO that is not accepting, a difficult path lies ahead. Life isn't fair and a happy ending will not always be possible. Then again, that depends on where the real ending is.

A broken marriage or relationship is the end of one chapter in life. It doesn't need to be the final chapter in life. I've watched family members go through divorce, experience the pain and hardship of it, and find new love and be happier in the new relationship.

I'm sorry. I don't have any good advice to offer. I wish I did, but crap is crap and no matter what color you paint it, it still stinks. For what it's worth, I'll pray for you for that is all I can offer. I do care even if I cannot help.

Gabrielle,

Thank you, great advice BTW..Beats the hell out of ..It's your body your life your wife is the one with the problem not you... That remark will ruffle some feathers I am sure ..Not everyone replies in that manner and once again my point is not everyone is happy about crossdressing. I will take your advice over some telling me my wife has the problem but that's just me.. That story wasn't about me either just so you know..

What I am trying to get accross here is, I know there are many better yet a majority of folks out there ,that are like me not as Cding in a whole either.. They fight it off everyday trying to keep peace within themselfs and their familys. Remaining in the closet and feeling the quilt .. This thread was for those folks but only proved that a majority of this section MTF can not understand why we choose to want the urges to go away.. That's fine like I said I love this place, I am a little slow but I'm not asking for change here. I will also take the percentage that do understand . I don't push anyone to hate it (cding), I know most think it's the best thing that ever happen to them and want to share the joy. But a lot of us don't , this thread was for them..

What, in the case of the creator of this agonising thread, appears to my modest but exceptionally learned opinion, to be classic case of 'transvestic fetishism,' does not often nor necessarily progress beyond that stage of self loathing to the more congenial form of semi-acceptance which most true transgendered cross dressers achieve in time. Often the transvestic fetishist becomes what is known as "Trauma Bonded" with the searing shame he feels at the end of what is almost always an erotic experience for him.

The shame itself (and its associated emotions) becomes the attraction - the dressing simply a means to that twisted end - he becomes bound to repeat the behavior to seek that nurturing primal shame again and again and again.

Often, this bond reflects a deeply repressed maternal displeasure expressed by a mother who was (often unintentionally) emotionally abusive.

The subject does not even begin to recognize that the trauma-bond has occurred but subconsciously seeks the reward of the shame and guilt, which is his primary recognition technology, of a maternal love expressed as displeasure to a little boy. This is a condition that can respond well to an activating serotonin inhibitor such as Welbutrin.

Can you believe how incredibly hot I look in my new pix? Love to all sisters.

CW, your second statement of the problem is very different than how the first was stated.

First, I think that most here will admit that CDing has, one way or another or many ways, brought pain into our lives. My biggest desire is to not bring pain into other's lives because of it and I think most here will agree with that also.

Life is full of compromises and the situation you presented with the CD and his wife really didn't present such an option. Someone is a CDer or not a CDer. It is not something that can be removed with a scalpel. The situation you describe will end in divorce unless the CD is extremely restrained and extremely careful so as to not get caught for 50 years. Not likely to happen. The situation you described would be akin to the wife finding out that the husband wore contacts that made his eyes look blue only to find out they were brown and she doesn't want to be married to a brown-eyed husband.

This may sound like a stretch but I don't think so because CDing is not something we choose to be and, just like being brown-eyed, not inherently evil, harmful or destructive. It is society's norms (generally based upon ignorance or fear of the unknown) that make us think that it is. (I have been reading a lot of editorials about the anti-gay marriage push right now they remind us of the anti-interracial marriage laws of the past. Both are/were put in place out of fear and ignorance but are basically wrong.) The CD is who he is and will remain that way (we haven't found the pill to remove it yet. more on this later.) It took me a long time to come to grips that God made me this way for a reason. After I understood that I can't change myself, I am now trying to find out the reason and purpose. I cannot stress too much that the CD must understand who they are even if they are not happy with who they are. They then hopefully will begin to understand that they are unhappy with whom they are not because they are bad but because society doesn't understand them and often doesn't have a place for them. (Something I truly believe is changing BTW.) Humans have an inherent need to fit in and we don't yet.

As I said, the hypothetical marriage will likely end in divorce if there is no compromise and I would propose that the CD must be willing to come more than half way. The wife has to accept her husband for who he is - a CD - because it will never change. That means that he will need to dress at times. If she doesn't want to see it then he has to respect the request if he wants to keep the marriage. If he truly wants to keep the marriage, he needs to make sure that the chances of his wife seeing him dressed is 0.0000% and not 0.0001% because he must respect her needs also. This is the extreme compromise that reflects the reality of CDing and a wife that doesn't want to see it. However, if the marriage is what is most important then that is what it takes IMHO.

Now hearkening back to some of the other early statements, understanding oneself is key to making this work. Understanding that you were born a CD and there is nothing you can do about it is the first thing to achieve. Second, understanding that there is no valid value judgment associated with being a CD is next. Some in society incorrectly place negative values as I have already stated but they are wrong. Once you have come to understand who you are and that it is neither good or bad, then it is much easier to deal with it. For example, there have been many mornings that I get in the shower, think about how it would be nice to get "dressed" but then remind myself that today I am a CD who is not going to practice CDing because I love my wife (who isn't ready to see me CDed.) This is much easier once I began to understand who I was and didn't allow society to tell me that it was bad.

I mentioned about about the pill to take away CDing. Would I take the pill? Yes but not because I don't want to be a CD. I would take it because I don't want my possible screw ups being a CD and interacting with a misunderstanding society to hurt those around me.

I hope this helps.

Candy,

I can really buy that therory, very interesting and explains a lot. What I mean is That could be the reason in the desire to want to dress and then can't take the stupid SH*t off fast enough when the deed is done.. Also the lack of having little or no fem feelings ..

Vey good..

Leann,

Thanks for the post and the effort in trying to help..But I really don't think you understand or missed the point ...That example I used happens in here seen it and everyone will not get an accepting wife and if so boundries in some are still surpressed in some cases.

Thanks again

C.W.

CW, in the example you gave above - it's simple:

Life is a series of choices. We make these choices, sometimes under duress, sometimes willfully, sometimes unconsciously. But whether we want to or not, whether we are aware or not, we make them.

In your example, the husband makes a choice: What is more important to his life? His wife and family, or his crossdressing? Remove any question about whether it is moral or correct of his wife to make that be the choice. Right or wrong, the choice has been presented. And so the husband will choose his wife, or his crossdressing, and has to live with the consequences of that choice, whether they be good or bad, helpful or harmful. This is not a question of morality, tolerance, or indeed, good manners. This does not presuppose that the husband or wife will be able to deal constructively or positively with their choice. This does not mean they will be successful with their choices. But the choice will be made, one way or the other.

Your comments appear to have an undertone of frustration that you are not getting your point across. I think in a lot of ways, your viewpoint runs counter to the majority here, and again, that is neither right nor wrong. Most of us strive to find a way to accept this part of ourselves, and to find a way we can fit it into our world and that of the people around us. That this seems opposite of what you appear to desire can be difficult to deal with, as with anything where the majority runs counter to the minority.

I would, however, say that you are making your choice as regards this every day. Whether you choose to indulge it in the grips of self-loathing, whether you choose to try to accept it, or choose to try to reject it, every time you think about it, talk about it, or pick up that piece of clothing, you're making a choice. I would hazard a piece of advice, and that is to look into yourself, with an unflinching and honest eye, by yourself or with assistance of a professional, and look at your choices, and how you can either make better ones, or make the ones you have decided on work better for you.

I saw you comment a few pages back that you tried some professional help and it didn't work. I am the last person to think counseling is an end-all be all panacea for everything that ails us; indeed, I mistrust most psychiatrists and psychologists. But at the same time, I believe that being self-aware and self-honest is something that is hard to acheive alone and in a vacuum, so consider trying again. At the very least, stick around with the people here who do understand you, if only to vent the things you feel with honesty and little chance of harm.

Best of luck,

CW, It is obvious you are in a sqirrel cage, the crazymaking merry-go round. I can relate some.. If there was a pill I could take, to end all desire to dress, I would take it! It can easily take over our lives. I came from a sexual shaming background. I have never had sex with anyone, ever. For me, I feel that my family was cursed.. None of my siblings has a spouse, or SO, and I am the youngest, at 54!!! I have tried to befriend hundreds of women, did date a fair amount, in my 30's, but never had a match. I dressed the first time, about age 14, and the guilt, shame, self-loathing, was awful. Even, when i simply "relieved" sexual energy, not dressing, I felt guilt, and shame, felt condemmned. I was taught that sex was dirty. I drew pictures of my "dream woman", for decades. Finally, in my 40's, I bought some hose, wore them, them , stopped, until 2002. I always said, like a drunk, "I'll quit". The church i am with, concemns cding, and all sex outside of hetero marriage, so, that has been a struggle. After hearing an old man, named Roy Masters, late at night, on the radio, I ordered his meditation tape, called "Be still, and know." Some of the tape is hardhitting, and hurts, but, it is effective, for many. His website, is FHU.com. I don't agree with everything he says, but, there are some helpful things. I have come to the reality, that I really am different, abnormal, odd, and my whole family is that way. I get so upset, that I have not been granted a loving, pretty, understanding gg mate, and probably never will, barring a miracle! I do not have much sex desire, anymore, at all, and I don't have the energy or motivation to dress more than once, or twice a month. I don't like having the "curses", of not having a gg, and the desire to look like the attractive lady i desire. At six feet six,, and 255 lbs, I am just to big, to pass, so I am 99.99% in the closet, and single, and very depressed often, and lonely. I do take meds for depression, and bipolar. I have a lot of anger, and issues, that could take years, if not a lifetime, to deal with. My dad never wanted me, and always resentd me. He did not want sons. There is an old proverb, that says, "Each heart knows its own bitterness, and none can share its joy." It seems like the baby boom generation, and after, have had to struggle more psychically, than earlier generations. I agree with an earlier post, that said, there are entities, that attack us, get into us, keep us captive. Sometimes we need to cry out loud, somewhere, for Higher Power help, too. I have always had a love/hate relationship, with my cding, but, can go much longer between sessions, with age, and time. I hope this helps. We are frail beings.

Look Hon - its really common. Its easy to deal with -you have a 50 gallon drum with about 4 inches of sludge in the bottom. You are going to get your hands dirty when you clean it up. Its not that big a deal. We all know that the world will laugh at our attempts at femininty and scoff at the self indulgent silliness - we would be humiliated by the gays and the straights- "deviant" they would say. Well - we are not really deviant we are just part time girls. As much as we all want to stand up and say - Here's who we are !! We are good people !!" No one cares - when found out we will be humiliated and teased - talked about endlessly and our reputation and our family's reputation will NEVER recover. This is private behavior. Like most of us here this powerful and really, I think undeniable, urge started when I was young. It has gone up and down and latley much more up than down. I believe that - there is not a choice involved on being a cross dresser. However -the behavior is ilusionary and self indulgent beyond the essential nesesarry expression of the feeling. I now find that because I engage in the "community" on line a bit - the desire is much stronger and deeper. I do not want to be "outed" and all the humiliation that would bring. I have had some experience with this and it is universally bad. We are just fodder for jokes and snide remarks. I need to be Candy Darling sometimes - but not as much as Candy Darling would like me to be. That wild girl needs very, very VERY strict limits or she will expand and expand. I must stand strong on my own boundaries or the "girl inside" will dominate my personality. Be careful.
As to your marriage - you will be found out. There is no good answer to how to deal - at least if you are discoverd the cat is out of the bag and the facts must then be faced and dealt with. It sucks. It happened to me. Horrible but I am still very happily married. A strong relationship will always survive this little character defect. Don't worry so much - get a script for 475 mg Wellbutrin. Do the work you need to do to get down in the bottom of that 50 gallon drum and roll around in that sludge - own it -acknowledge it - it will then dissipate and you will begin to see the balance. If we gave in to every urge - every time we'd all be junkies and drunks because we had a mean Mommy or sombody yelled at us when we were 5. You do well to resist from time to time. Stand strong - love your wife -be good to yourself. It could be soooo much worse. So --- you didn't tell me you like my new pic !!!!!!

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Originally Posted by curse within

Leann,

Thanks for the post and the effort in trying to help..But I really don't think you understand or missed the point ...That example I used happens in here seen it and everyone will not get an accepting wife and if so boundaries in some are still suppressed in some cases.

Thanks again

C.W.

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CW,

Maybe we are getting hung up on a definition. I consider an unaccepting wife as one who will not be married to a CD under any circumstance. So in your case, assuming discloser is after the wedding, the outcome is inevitably divorce based upon the wife's actions. A tolerating wife sets boundaries which can span the spectrum from don't show me to lets do it together. Then the CD must make the choice between accepting the boundaries or preserving the marriage. However, just as in the case of the wife, a CD who is unwilling to accept compromise, given that the wife is compromising (based upon society's screwed up norms) by tolerating, the CD should be willing to compromise. Otherwise, again, divorce is the logical outcome based upon the CD's actions.

Tye - Lucille.
You move me. Really. Can you see a little bit that through the way we can share here - the compassion we extend to each other with this strange common bond -that there may be a little tiny silver lining in this cloud?
Peace and deep respect for you.

Tye,

Thank you for the post, I need to ask why people think there is something wrong with me or that I am venting ? I am fine to be honest I must be comming accross in the wrong way through typing .. I feel great thanks tho for you concerns ..

As for the example .. You gave very good advise but not much support..You know how I would help this new member? I would start off by saying ..How long have you been CDing? How many times have you tried to stop? (As we all know there is no end).. You need to see a Sexual Idenity Therapist, I would tell him, if you havn't already done so.. You need to be open and honest with your wife , explain in detail your level of dressing and if your plan includes progressing , to your wife. Ask if she would attend a therapist meeting with you or alone..Let her know your marriage means more to you than your dressing and that you are the same man she knew before except she now knows an embarrassing secret about you.Let her know that you would love it if she would see someone professionaly as well as gather information about Crossdressing before she commited to any rash decissions..

But thats just me..

Well and good.

To me, I would think the opposite...I believe I gave you support, and not much in the way of advice.

I personally don't believe in just flat out telling people what they should do. Outside of this place, I offer my support to my friends and others who ask for it by listening to what they say, and hopefully helping to clarify and isolate how they feel, so they can tell themselves what they should or shouldn't do. For me to do otherwise, is to simply impress my worldview on them without much thought or effort in any other direction. I believe that most people are well equipped to make their own choices; it's all of the static that comes from the day to day world around them that clouds the issue.

As for your tone - I did not mean to imply there was something wrong with you. For me, the terms "frustration" and "venting" are morally neutral - they are just adjectives and verbs, with no good or bad, right or wrong attached to them. I actually think, if anything, they are helpful - they help to clarify, cut through, and isolate issues. A person who doesn't get frustrated could bang their head against the same wall a million times without thinking anything was wrong, and a person who doesn't just let out what they think without any need for societal niceties or filters from time to time will more likely as not end up......well...we all know how that one goes.

Candy.......Your pic looks awsome....Thanks agin for the post..

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Originally Posted by Tye

Well and good.

To me, I would think the opposite...I believe I gave you support, and not much in the way of advice.

I personally don't believe in just flat out telling people what they should do. Outside of this place, I offer my support to my friends and others who ask for it by listening to what they say, and hopefully helping to clarify and isolate how they feel, so they can tell themselves what they should or shouldn't do. For me to do otherwise, is to simply impress my worldview on them without much thought or effort in any other direction. I believe that most people are well equipped to make their own choices; it's all of the static that comes from the day to day world around them that clouds the issue.

As for your tone - I did not mean to imply there was something wrong with you. For me, the terms "frustration" and "venting" are morally neutral - they are just adjectives and verbs, with no good or bad, right or wrong attached to them. I actually think, if anything, they are helpful - they help to clarify, cut through, and isolate issues. A person who doesn't get frustrated could bang their head against the same wall a million times without thinking anything was wrong, and a person who doesn't just let out what they think without any need for societal niceties or filters from time to time will more likely as not end up......well...we all know how that one goes.

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Tye ,

Really nothing personal towards you this isn't meant to be that was as I have said before...No harm on this end and if I said anything to offend you in anyway I am really sorry..

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Originally Posted by curse within

Gabrielle,

They fight it off everyday trying to keep peace within themselfs and their familys. Remaining in the closet and feeling the quilt ..

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The posts on this thread reinforce my thoughts that we are all going through various stages of living with the feelings that we have. The rate at which we progress depends more on the reactions of others around us than on ourselves.

Here, tentatively, is the sequence of this progression
1. Guilt - OMG there must be something wrong with me.
2. Denial - I don't need this anymore. I am a normal heterosexual male and that is how I will live.
3. Confusion - No, there is nothing wrong with me, so why does everyone make me feel like there is?
4. Anger - It's not my fault, I was born this way. Why can't everyone else just accept that?
5. Acceptance - OK so this is not considered normal behavior so I will learn to restrict myself.
6. Compromise - I need to do this, but the people around me will only let me go so far. I will go as far as they let me, and keep gently pushing the boundaries.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curse within

Is it just me ??? Am I the only one on this board that has a negitive attitude about crossdressing?? I'd first like to say that if you are happy about dressing and expressing yourself or trying to pass yourself as a female, knock yourself out... I am only communicating through a piece of plastic going out somewhere in never never land... Why would I care?? Not like I would ever met or judge anyone in person anyways to impact anyones life.

This is a place where people can gain support for Crossdressing , I've learned that as I went along, this place meaning MTF forum...I thought I was mis lead after I joined this site but started to get the picture as I progressed,yes I am a little slow..

Facts about me or people like me who will not accept Crossdressing but can't always control the urges.

1. We stay in the closet , do not wish to be seen most of the time by anyone.

2. We perfer not to go by a female name and wish not to be adressed as a she.

3. We feel quilt , shamed and depressed after we dress.

4. We do not wear bras,forms,makeup or shave in areas that females are known to shave..

5. Dressing is sometimes or most times a sexual fetish.

6. Have nothing in common with most in this MTF forum, because we do not want to be females or act out being females.

I am sure there are many more facts I am just wondering why there isn't a support forum for the closet CDers we need support but of a different nature. I am Just curious for those who lurk, IS IT JUST ME???

THIS THREAD IS FOR THOSE WHO I HAVE DIRECTED IT TO, YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE SO THOSE WHO THIS ISN'T DIRECTED TO PLEASE DON'T GET YOUR KNICKERS IN A TWIST.

C.W.

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Hiya,

I'm just gonna put in my opinion, and take this with the same lack of offense you offered to us.

I don't think that you're the only one who has a negative opinion of crossdressing who does it. In fact, I think it's safe to say that many people who do it started at some point in doubt or fear of what they were doing. I know that I and many other CDs did not understand their urges when they began, and in fact, I too was disgusted (at least on its face) by what I wanted to do.

Then I gave it a chance to go where it was going. I did some research. I found out that there were people who did this and who weren't just dudes in women's clothes, ugly and unfitting. In fact, some out there could pass for women on relatively close inspection. So I figured maybe it's not so unnatural.

Are you the only one here now? Maybe. But wanna know what I really think? I think that you're heading in the right direction, towards some degree of acceptance and self expression. Don't be so negative, really, and I mean that positively. Give it a chance.

What has been said here in other posts is partially correct. You are, most likely, in your first stages of this. You don't understand why you're doing this, and your natural will to fight it has kicked in on overdrive, so you're being as contrarian as possible about it. Read here for someone else's better organized thoughts about it, it helped me:

http://www.lauras-playground.com/cd_crossdresser.htm

My advice: If only for once, stop fighting it. Stop thinking of it as disgusting and worrisome and unnatural, and whatever else society taught you about it. Dress up in something that makes you feel pretty or sexy. If you feel aroused by it, just don't do anything about it. Separate it from the sexual aspect for yourself. It's what I did, and then I stopped feeling disturbed by it. Just... try it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarcieM

That's the whole deal. Nobody really knows how to help someone in this situation find peace. Not therapists, other CD's, etc. I can't count the number of times I've had someone tell me "well, just accept yourself". Well, duh...it doesn't take a brain surgeon to figure that out. The million dollar question is - how do we do that when every fiber of our being tells us CD-ing is wrong? Is CD-ing really worth the shame, guilt, self-loathing it brings upon us? or is it easier to just not CD? There is no easy answer. And no easy explanation.

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No, there's no easy, instant, answer - but there is an answer? Many of us have found it.. No one can do it for you (although they can help), and it may take you a few years, but you have to want to change and then go about trying - over and over again, one small step at a time? Often the acceptance of others comes before acceptance of self.

Honestly? You don't sound as if you really want to - that you're comfortable (or too worried of change) where you are..

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curse within

How would you answer or support that?

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Well there's no point in telling lies, is there? It's not going to go away, there is no pill - so pretending the elephant isn't in the room isn't a workable long-term answer? :strugglin

Relationships don't work well on lies and hiding part of yourself, so the regular advice here would be 'come out and both of you start accepting yourself as you really are'...

There are plenty of life events that have to be accepted, in a similar way - try dealing with life-threatening illnesses, for a start?


There is a compromise position that you can live with (it varys for every individual). But you can't find it unless you go looking for it in the first place?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by sissystephanie

If you dislike dressing so much, why do you do it? Being a CD is not something you were born with! We dress because we like to! At least most of do. Some, a few, do it for sexual reasons or because they really want to become a woman. But IMHO the greater number of us do it simply because we like to. And don't tell you cannot stop. Yes you can, if you really want to! I did stop cold turkey some years ago. Purged everything and did not dress for several years. So why am I dressing now, you ask? Because my wife missed Stephanie, that's why! She literally begged me to start dressing again, even to the point of spending her own money to buy me new clothes.

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are you serious?
i dont know if it is something you can be born with, but you can develop the "condition" very early in life, and for many it is a compulsion, not a choice.
how you deal with it is the only choice you have.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by curse within

I know it is hard to understand where I am coming from with this thread...

To me Crossdressing is like a drug addiction I am not a junkie but I think I have to do it... To most in here Crossdressing is better than money and they can't have enough until they are the prettiest girl ...See the difference?? I really thank you all for your support but my kind of support is why I hate it so much not why I love it so much.. I will never change I will never leave the closet even if accepted in soceity.. I am more male by far than female but sometimes that bit*h gets in my way.

Thanks all

C.W.

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Am I the only one here that understands the nature of this thred?... Fear not Curse within I do understand exactly what you are saying... My story is some what similar, My Ex wife if asked would tell you that my dressing was the beginning of the end of our relationship, but what she still doesn't understand (and probably never will now) is that my need to dress was just that... I did not want it, Sarah just takes over for a while, and when she is done with my body I am rather discusted with myself that I could not control my own urges under her control, bitch! (thats miss bitch to you a-hole) The main difference between you and I Curse is that I have the makeup and the forms to keep the bitch sorry "miss bitch" happy when she does take over. What can I say... Glutton for punishment?!

CW, I think the intent of both of your posts were pretty clear, at least to me. It all boils down to "If I want to stop cross dressing, where do I go for help?" mixed in with "Is this the place/this is not the place" for that sort of help.

This is a great place for support if you want help to accept what you are.
This is even a great place for support if you want the camaraderie of speaking with others that share your "affliction" and even your feelings and opinion about it.
This is NOT a great place for those looking for a way to stop - that's just not the focus of this forum.
The bad news is, I have no idea where you can go if you want help to quite cross dressing. I'd be delighted to help you if I had a clue, but I don't. I DO wish you the very best of luck and hope you find some way to peace of mind, be it by quiting or by accepting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nicki B

Honestly? You don't sound as if you really want to - that you're comfortable (or too worried of change) where you are..

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Again, you demonstrate that you simply "don't get it". Please stop making assumptions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

This is NOT a great place for those looking for a way to stop - that's just not the focus of this forum.

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That's not the focus of this forum or any other forum. Because...there is no way to stop. oh, I dunno...a frontal lobotomy maybe?
But short of that, you and I both know this is like the mafia. You're in for life.
Sure, one can stop the physical act of CD-ing, but stop thinking about it?
yeah, right.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

This is even a great place for support if you want the camaraderie of speaking with others that share your "affliction" and even your feelings and opinion about it.
This is NOT a great place for those looking for a way to stop - that's just not the focus of this forum.
The bad news is, I have no idea where you can go if you want help to quite cross dressing.

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CW,
It seems this forum (and this thread) has certainly tried to address TX Kimberly's first point and has not been afraid of touching on the second point as well as the third. Your courageous posts have elicited mostly supportive and positive responses and hopefully has paved the way for more discussions that run the risk of offending some on this site (hopefully, no one is hurt or offended as that should never be the goal of honest discussion).

CW, I'm not sure whether you were asking for help on how to eliminate CD'ing from your life or whether you were simply wondering whether anyone else on this site feels like you do.

It seems from the responses that there are many on this site who feel in some part, if not completely, as you do. I have been crossdressing for 35 years and as I already stated earlier, my behavior for the most part parallels yours as listed in your first post. My name on this site was chosen rather randomly and I do not use a feminine name for myself. I also listed some organizations which might assist you in eliminating or reducing CD'ing in your life.

Some on this forum, including you, indicated that CD'ing is a compulsion. For others, it is not at this point in their lives. If you view it as a compulsion, I again suggest that a 12 step group like Sex Addicts Anonymous might be worth a try. You could attend several meetings without saying a word or revealing anything about yourself to see if any of it resonates with you. Patrick Carnes has written several excellent books, such as Out of the Shadows which you might check out first if you wish.

To use an example, most of us I would guess believe that masturbating in and of itself is harmless. For some, it becomes a compulsion and they decide they must take steps to reduce its control over their lives. Drinking alcohol is also like this. The same might be said of crossdressing for some people at some points in their lives.

This forum has people all over the spectrum of crossdressing, from fetishism to those who consider themselves transgendered. We may not have everything in common but hopefully we can find some things in common that we can identify with. Hopefully, we can celebrate and support both those who are happy with where they are in their lives and those who wish to change.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TxKimberly

CW, I think the intent of both of your posts were pretty clear, at least to me. It all boils down to "If I want to stop cross dressing, where do I go for help?" mixed in with "Is this the place/this is not the place" for that sort of help.

This is a great place for support if you want help to accept what you are.
This is even a great place for support if you want the camaraderie of speaking with others that share your "affliction" and even your feelings and opinion about it.
This is NOT a great place for those looking for a way to stop - that's just not the focus of this forum.
The bad news is, I have no idea where you can go if you want help to quite cross dressing. I'd be delighted to help you if I had a clue, but I don't. I DO wish you the very best of luck and hope you find some way to peace of mind, be it by quiting or by accepting.

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TXKimberly,

Thank you ,yes you got the point well part of it anyways but I was wondering if it was not just me .I believe there are many others who feel the way that I do.. Now please don't get me wrong this isn't slinging mud towards any group of people and no doubt this is a great forum directed mainly to the folks who want and accept dressing in their lives..

Just as you would like to be understood about dressing I and others would like to be understood about dis likeing it ...I am sure we would like to hear other opinions rather than there must be something wrong with us in accepting our lives with Xdressing. All I hear (READ) is I am in denial, I am angry so on and so on for the most part from some..

I am going to start another Thread about this as well so please no need for some folks to get thier feathers ruffled.. Fair warning to those who are thinned skinned .My new Thread will point out the differances in Male Cders and Male Crossdressing Transgenders..Yes there are differances..

That's all

Well my knickers are not in a twist no way , As I am happy to be dressed , shave in all the places females do , Get depressed After I have to change back to male mode , long to called by my female name , BUT then I am on hormones and loving it :love:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by MarcieM

Again, you demonstrate that you simply "don't get it". Please stop making assumptions.

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Then perhaps you might explain further, rather than so often saying as little as possible about yourself.. And also making assumptions?

CW...despite your constantly stated position that you don't want to offend anyone, you're actually starting to offend me.

"You just don't get it." is a dismissive mantra that you're using to allow yourself to ignore a lot of very insiteful and sympathetic commentary here. Especially since, as most who have posted in response to your OP have agreed with you about the depth of shame and guilt and "not rightness" that they have also experienced, just like you!

Is it they have been able to get over it and accept themselves and you are unable to?

What makes you so adamant in apparently not even wanting to try to accept yourself for what you are? Are you a fundamentalist preacher? Are you the ultimate alpha male in your community? What are you afraid of?

We get it alright! We get that you are opposed to change in your own mind, even change that could make your life a lot happier for yourself and those around you.

One so-so experience with a therapist doesn't mean that therapy can't ultimately help you with your negative or 'contrarian' mind set. You just gotta find one that youre more in tune with.

Candy Darling's post at #110 (which is one of the only ones that you actually agreed with) probably got it right. You're addicted to SHAME!

That's not nearly as healthy as being addicted to Vicoria's Secret catalogs...

:straightface:

Quote:

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Originally Posted by deja true

CW...despite your constantly stated position that you don't want to offend anyone, you're actually starting to offend me.

"You just don't get it." is a dismissive mantra that you're using to allow yourself to ignore a lot of very insiteful and sympathetic commentary here. Especially since, as most who have posted in response to your OP have agreed with you about the depth of shame and guilt and "not rightness" that they have also experienced, just like you!

Is it they have been able to get over it and accept themselves and you are unable to?

What makes you so adamant in apparently not even wanting to try to accept yourself for what you are? Are you a fundamentalist preacher? Are you the ultimate alpha male in your community? What are you afraid of?

We get it alright! We get that you are opposed to change in your own mind, even change that could make your life a lot happier for yourself and those around you.

One so-so experience with a therapist doesn't mean that therapy can't ultimately help you with your negative or 'contrarian' mind set. You just gotta find one that youre more in tune with.

Candy Darling's post at #110 (which is one of the only ones that you actually agreed with) probably got it right. You're addicted to SHAME!

That's not nearly as healthy as being addicted to Vicoria's Secret catalogs...

:straightface:

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Although I agree'd to Candys suggestion I'm not addicted to shame.. I will buy the OCD therory tho... Is it so hard to believe that people do not wish to progress thier lifestyle (crossdressing) or feed what most would consider a disgusting habit?

I am very happy for the folks here that do wish to further thier lifestyle by going out in public or spendind a day as a woman .. I understand that not wanting to get dressed up doesn't fit in this forum , I understand you girls (men) have spent a lifetime fighting for understanding and are very fast to be offended if someone has a negative attitude towards dressing..

But don't forget we are all suppose to fit into this label together I do not tell you that dressing is unhealthy for you even though I think it is more unheathy than me not dressing but thats my opinion.

Thanks for the post:D