Aspects I Don't Understand

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Genevera

on top of that were the drugs (prescribed) my mother used during her pregnancy that had the effect of feminizing my brain, those same drugs had the reverse effect on my sister masculinizing hers.

---

Generva, what drugs were these?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Great questions Sobe.

Kehleyr's response is quite interesting but it raises more questions in my mind. A lot of the response reinforces my fear that perhaps all CD's are transexuals in denial. :straightface:

So much of the crossdresser's life is baffeling in the context of identifying as a heterosexual man. It would be easier if the CD would just say "hey I'm a transexual" then you could just get on with life instead of waiting for the boom to drop or to keep trying to understand and wrap your mind around this whole phenomenon.

---

Hi, Kitty!

I have also considered this. It has to come down to either of two things.
1) What you say is true, and all TG's are actually TS's. If this is true, then what we exhibit are stages... The denial is a result of societal conditioning, and as we progress through stages of acceptance we proceed to transition, or societal issues are so overwhelming that we stop along the path somewhere.

2) That this is not true, and what the differences are within the TG camp are results of either degree of the effect on personality, or that there really are different things that create a CD or a TS.

I tend to believe that it is a combination... The drive is that same for all of us, but there are also degrees of effect.

Anyone else?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SecondLife

What's confusing about this for me, is DH has told me this. I can see that. I believe it.

But in the next conversation, he says he'd give it up if that's what it took to keep our relationship intact.

I guess he and I are going to have to talk about THIS issue soon. Ack.

---

Many years ago, my SO and I had that same conversation. We'd been in couples therapy, and it appeared that we were splitsville... we had TWO therapists, and both of them suggested that we break it up. I'd been our for about 4 years, and she tried to be accepting, but just couldn't do it.

I told her the same thing. If it kept us together, I would stop. She didn't believe it, but I did, for over 10 long painful years. I still cruised the internet, got onto chat rooms, tried to find alternate ways to express my feminity. Some time ago, I told her that I was expressing again. I asked her if that meant that we were splitting? She said, "well, I've stayed with you this long, I am not likely to leave now!

Things have been good. She felt that it was wrong to make me purge. I discovered that my family meant so much to me,k that nothing else mattered. I proved to her that I did love her, and that I cared. It did not change me at all. I just went into remission (purge) for a very long time. This was emotionally very bad for me, and I do not recommend it to anyone. To do that under those circumstasnces is an emotional blackmail. I do not blame her. I made the choice.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chantelle CD

TS may not like CD's why is this??? ill tell ya why, because you TS dont like your maleness, i read this over and over again!!! CD's do!!! and that picks your BUTTS!!! WHY????? You think just because we dont hate our maleness, we don't feel FEMME like you do, how flippin ignorant is that??? I can go out and pass just as good or better than most TS can, and that picks your BUTTS too..... why???? BECAUSE we all feel the same thing!!!! Maybe you hate CD's because this is a fact, and you cant live with the choices you made!!!

---

I hate to burst your theory and generalization, but some of my best friends are crossdressers, and most of them probably do look better than I do. It really doesn't matter -- I just do the best I can with what I have. And I won't even get to your prejorative "ignorant," because..., well, you seem to be rather quick with painting all of us with one brush.

I hardly represent every transsexual out there, but I am very happy with the choices I have made -- happy for the first time in my life to be perfectly honest.

Quote:

---

Now you can reply all mad at me if you want....but i honestly don't think a thing will be said that doesn't show me what i just said isn't true!!! So go ahead and blab away. I say this not because i don't like TS, but because im sick and tired of listening to you belittling CD's because we can FEEL the same thing YOU DO!!!

---

So, rather than listening to (how many? two? three?) TSs belittling CDs, you would rather belittle TSs. Interesting. And this makes you better, how?

I'm not mad at you -- I feel sorry for you.

I think for everyone it is different. For me I have an extra X in my biolgical make up. I was told if my mother would have done a test to see what she was having (this was in 1961) she would have been having twins, a boy and a girl. I have lived and felt that way for as long as I can remember. For me it IS NOT fetish based. If I went through transition the male side would suffer instead. So I must learn to co-exsist with myself. So I may have just clouded what you were looking for but this is what makes me up.
My SO loves all of me and has chosen to live with.

Hey, this is a great thread (well, it WAS going along nicely :rolleyes: - some people take things too personally, not mentioning names).

Anyway, good questions Sobe and some great answers and insights. I wish I had more time to read them properly, but time waits for no woman.

:hugs:

Sobe my friend, I'm gonna stick my neck out here and say I honestly do not disagree with anything you asked in your original post. In fact, these are questions I ask myself all the time. I'm currently trying to prove to myself that I can be myself by being my guy self and expressing myself in that way. This in no way changes who I am inside mind you. Also bear in mind I am not your ordinary "garden variety" of CD and only speak for myself here. I had in fact been dealing with "sisters" who were telling me I was being a phoney if I didn't totally dress en femme. I'm like "Huh?" What is the point in expressing yourself and feeling free if you just put yourself in another mold? I still enjoy dressing but now I'm determined more than ever to prove I can be myself no matter what. It has to my choice totally or it doesn't wash. My wife does not live with me but if she ever does come back, I will certainly work things out with her as an equal partner.:happy:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Satrana

LOL, I think you could repeat that a thousand times and the message will never sink in for many. Most people are so sold on the gender myth that men and women are fundamentally different that they refuse to accept we are all have the same feelings and thoughts. The differences we observe are culturally enforced, artificial rules and regulations to inform us what we are and are not allowed to express if we wish to conform. And we do want to conform because we are social creatures who crave acceptance.

I have a classic example. For years I had private CD fantasies in my head. Since there was absolutely no information on crossdressing to be had or contact with CDs, my private fantasies were 100% my own not influenced by anyone else. They should have been unique to me but when I eventually got around to purchasing a CD magazine in my early 20s I was shocked to find CD fantasies identical to my own, not just the general storyline but the details too. How could this be? This was my first insight that we are all fundamentally the same. I have had several more experiences since, each time reconfirming how people of any gender or race have exactly the same feelings and emotions. How these are blended together and mixed with cultural overlays makes us all individuals but we are all based on the same blueprint.

I don't know any of you as individuals but I know all of you as human beings no matter what label you attach to yourself.

---

Bravo

I think that part of the problem is that I don't feel that there really isn't any such thing as a "textbook" crossdresser. It would be great if we as crossdressers were able to show the world the sort of united front that would force the rest of the population to confront their feelings about us the way the gay, lesbian and transsexual community have asserted themselves in society, but (ironically) we're just too diverse within our own ranks.

Part of the problem is the whole issue of denial. Having practiced it our entire lives, when we make those first tentative steps into the TG community, the first thing we hear is the "party line", which generally touches on these points: we are not gay, we do not want to get sex changes, and our dressing is not a fetish. Therefore, we should be allowed to wear whatever we want, whenever we want. To embrace that concept after years of denial is very empowering. If your SO seems to be sounding a bit disingenuous in his assessment of his own dressing, it's probably because when we enter the TG community we learn that "party line". The problem arises when the crossdresser (or the SO) discovers that some self-described crossdressers are in fact transsexuals identifying as CD's to either attend Tri-ess meetings (or in yet another attempt to lie to their CO); some of them are indeed homosexual or bisexual, and that for some, the fetish/fantasy aspect is an essential part of the crossdressing. It should also be noted that there are a small percenntage of transsexuals who feel the need to try and convince crossdressers that they are but closet TS's. Suddenly, the issue of self-denial comes back to the forefront for the crossdresser--Am I really dressing for the same reasons as all these other self-proclaimed CD's? Do I want to have sex with another man? Do I want to take hormones? Do I in fact want to live as a female?

The bottom line is that there are no absolutes within the realm of crossdressing, regardless of what some some of the crossdressing studies, spokespeople or websites maintain. Each crossdresser should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis, and the crossdresser should not feel pressured by his peers to conform to any sort of groupthink.

In terms of my particular path over the past two years, I did indeed confront my feminine side by acknowledging it through crossdressing; at the same time, I have come to realize that I also have a male side that needs attention as well. The lack of balance I feel between my male and female sides is where I feel the most conflicted; I have no desire to dress and live as a female 24/7, yet at times I feel a compulsion to shave my legs and arms and dress. Ironically, I have found that in going out in public dressed, I'd just like to be accepted as a crossdresser and not judged. I don't want to convince the world that I'm an actual female, because I'm not--for starters, I'm not trying to attract men by my dressing--and I'd rather not convince the world that my ultimate goal is getting a sex change either. Obviously, this means that my inner conflict, which once revolved around my desire to dress, now revolves around my inability to satisfy both my male and female sides at the same time. Confusing? You bet. I'm glad I don't have to try and explain all of this to a significant other--never mind the problems involved with attempting to meet a woman all the while knowing full well that sooner or later I will have to figure out a way to drop the crossdressing bombshell. There's no way of knowing if the average woman on the street would either be accepting or horrified to learn that about me (just as the woman on the street probably has no idea if the man she's just met is a crossdresser or not).

That, however, is just me. Your mileage may vary. Sorry if I'm not directly answering any of the questions asked in the initial posting, but I really do feel that while the notion of the crossdressing community presenting a united front is a noble one, we all have our own road to trudge.

being a lifelong crossdresser and in and out of two long term relationships, i've found that the cd ing started out fun and ended up a problem...maybe its true that we want and expect too much understanding out of our mates and SO's and don't give enough back. I can say that throughout my life, my thoughts and feelings and self indulgence in dressing has changed...changed from the highly sexual and excitement in dressing....to feeling Just more normal, comfortible, and happy when dressed and en femme! it's been awhile since i've had a relationship and miss it, but weigh my need to live my remaining years in a manner that makes me happy and i'm not sure i can find a woman that accepts and supports this life i lead without the many problems outlined in this forum...do i Really want to go there again? The answer is Yes...but with someone that i can love, share this with, give her my all on the romantic side, and make equally happy for the rest of my years and hers! Tough act to acomplish, but any less isn't going to work as we all know that stopping our dressing is probably Not going to happen! Purging and quitting Isn't the solution...never was and Never will be for the majority of us. It's not like quitting smoking and there are no 13 step programs available...We usually Don't want to quit...Thats the problem!!! Finding,loving,keeping happy an understanding woman is the best course and it takes Lots of work on the man's part to accomplish this. I learned That through trial and error and losing two great partners that tried to make things work!
There Are no simple answers to this...sadly!

Wish i had to do it over again and that i was a younger, but wiser, cd!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monique Althea

I think that part of the problem is that I don't feel that there really isn't any such thing as a "textbook" crossdresser. It would be great if we as crossdressers were able to show the world the sort of united front that would force the rest of the population to confront their feelings about us the way the gay, lesbian and transsexual community have asserted themselves in society, but (ironically) we're just too diverse within our own ranks.

---

The gay or lesbian people are ALSO too diverse within their own ranks as you put it, just there have been some who are more "mainstream" and seen as more acceptable to a majority of straight Americans. Not all gays or lesbians want to marry, have committed relationships, or raise children. There isn't in truth a united front in those communities either.

Hey everyone! These have been really thoughtful posts! I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my questions. As luck would have it, I have two more.

- Since my boyfriend is considering whether or not he is transsexual, this has brought up questions as well for me. I said to him that I was mad that he seems so nonchalant about essentially killing his male self. Let's say his name is David so that you can understand what I'm saying.

I feel like if he was a full time lady, full time Leah B, he would no longer be David. David would be gone. He disagrees though saying that the same thoughts and feelings are still there. While I agree, thoughts and feelings aren't the only thing that makes someone special. If he looks different, acts different, identifies as a completely separate gender, has a different name, has a bit different interests (or added interests), then how could he possibly be David anymore?

While intellectually, I can see where he is coming from, that David is still there, I DON'T see it emotionally. In my heart, I would feel that he killed David. That Leah killed David. I have already been going through mourning already over this, so I can't even imagine how devastating it would be if he were to transition. I imagine that would be the case for his mom, other family members, and some friends as well.

What does everyone else think of this death issue? If someone doesn't feel that their male side accurately represents them and decides to take on a completely different female life, then how could they still, from the emotions of others, be the same person?

- I was thinking a lot about how some people were saying that the CDer shouldn't have to compromise in the slightest. Of course I disagreed with that, but it took me a few days to really cement in my head why I felt that way.

For most of you, you have had decades to come to terms with your gender issues. It has taken a really long time to resolve your issues with yourself and what society thinks. For some of you, you still don't fully accept yourselves.

So then how are we, as partners of trans folk (CD included), supposed to accept it so easily? We have much of the same hang ups as you as far as 'what society thinks.' We also have to resolve our own issues with gender when presented with an issue like this. Essentially, we need the whole process as well.

Unfortunately, we are often expected to accept things and get over our problems and fears at light speed. This can, obviously, be a problem. We need time to understand what's going on and accept it. If our T-lover doesn't want to go at a reasonable pace so that we too can come to terms, this often causes a rift. We can't be forced to accept things so fast. You all have had decades to deal with this and we are only given a short amount of time. To take my relationship as an example, I've known in general for a year and only really started doing anything in less than six months ago. Is six months really enough time to resolve issues over gender and the identifying gender of our spouse or boyfriend when it took him over 25 years to accept it for himself (and still has years to go)?

I don't think so.

But if there is care with the time frame that things happen, and if the SO/GG is willing to grow and accept and figure this out, then it could be seen as an obligation for the CDer to accommodate her.

What does everyone think of this?

Sobe

::EDIT:: I also wanted to clarify my original post. I mentioned the 1950s. I didn't mean to say that fifties fashion is bad for anyone. I LOVE it in fact. Check out daddyos.com for my clothing wishlist. I want everything! What I meant was the 1950s attitude. Women are supposed to wear dresses and stay at home and cook and clean and so forth. It seems like some CDers are stuck in that mentality. That's what I meant.

Quote:

---

I hate to burst your theory and generalization, but some of my best friends are crossdressers, and most of them probably do look better than I do. It really doesn't matter -- I just do the best I can with what I have. And I won't even get to your prejorative "ignorant," because..., well, you seem to be rather quick with painting all of us with one brush.

I hardly represent every transsexual out there, but I am very happy with the choices I have made -- happy for the first time in my life to be perfectly honest.

---

Sharon..

Did i some how point my finger at you??? i don't think i did, but you did for some reason. Maybe i am painting all of us with one brush, not just TS or CD's but everyone, and every thing, because we all come from the same place. One earth, one universe, the same light we all go to after this is all said and done. And this is why we all feel the same things. Free will is what makes us chose what we do.

I am glad your happy with your choices you made, i have meet a few TS that are struggling badly, going to counseling, and on the edge of losing it. I am glad your not like that.

Quote:

---

So, rather than listening to (how many? two? three?) TSs belittling CDs, you would rather belittle TSs. Interesting. And this makes you better, how?

I'm not mad at you -- I feel sorry for you.

---

I not belitteling TS, im simply stating a fact, like 1 and 1 = 2 there is truth to this universe, and part of it is we are all interconected, we all come from the same place, feel the same thing, like it or not, you are born the gender you were born, everyone can feel what ever they chose to focus on, and because you can do this, what you feel is real, regardless on your label...TS...CD..Gay... BI....straight...what ever, its saying this is what i am, is simply not true, your all of it!!! every one, again regardless of the label you want to put on yourself. I dont feel im better than anyone, if i did that, then my conections to the universe would halt, because that goes against the natural flow of it, i am saying, im as good as the next grain of sand, as bright as the next shining star, the person next to me,this is what connects you, i see this, it opens my heart, and fills me with joy, far more than any piece of clothing i may have, i connect to it as chantell, or my self. I don't need your pity dear Sharon, save your energy for more important things. Saying that you feel sorry for me, makes a statement that is, you have a general idea in your mind, that i am a certain way, that makes you feel sorry for me, isn't that a judgment?? again something that will cut you off from this conectivness we all share. so its better you don't do this, 1 it doesn't hurt me, and 2 its only hurting yourself, why.... because you are saying to the universe.....i don't like this grain of sand, its like this and like that, you cant hate, harbor any ill feelings to any one, to connect to this inverse. I dont hate TS people, i feel the same things they do because we are males, thats a truth, like it or not. Ts think that CD are $^#$% because we dont hate our male sides, this frees us, to being more, because we embrace the best of both worlds. Just like 1+1=2 Truth. And is why a lot of TS are seeing counseling, and fight depression, all they did was exchange 1 side of there 2 sided coin, for another, and that makes CD's less why??????????????

Quote:

---

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chantelle CD View Post

Tell me people....How hard is it to believe, that everything that we all can feel, can be felt by both sexes??? Like love, anger, hate, fear, joy, and yes femininity, and masculinity!!
LOL, I think you could repeat that a thousand times and the message will never sink in for many. Most people are so sold on the gender myth that men and women are fundamentally different that they refuse to accept we are all have the same feelings and thoughts. The differences we observe are culturally enforced, artificial rules and regulations to inform us what we are and are not allowed to express if we wish to conform. And we do want to conform because we are social creatures who crave acceptance.

I have a classic example. For years I had private CD fantasies in my head. Since there was absolutely no information on crossdressing to be had or contact with CDs, my private fantasies were 100% my own not influenced by anyone else. They should have been unique to me but when I eventually got around to purchasing a CD magazine in my early 20s I was shocked to find CD fantasies identical to my own, not just the general storyline but the details too. How could this be? This was my first insight that we are all fundamentally the same. I have had several more experiences since, each time reconfirming how people of any gender or race have exactly the same feelings and emotions. How these are blended together and mixed with cultural overlays makes us all individuals but we are all based on the same blueprint.

I don't know any of you as individuals but I know all of you as human beings no matter what label you attach to yourself.

---

Satrana

Speaks from a watchful eye on life, seeing the coincidences that happen, that show us <not blind faith> that there is truth to the universe!!

Very well stated hon...very well indeed.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Monique Althea

Part of the problem is the whole issue of denial. Having practiced it our entire lives, when we make those first tentative steps into the TG community, the first thing we hear is the "party line"

---

Great post Monique, very insightful. The CD party line is indeed a big problem as it only serves to obscure the truth that there is a great diversity within the CD community, and some of it is disquieting to the more prudish. The result is a CD community that is unable to agree or understand some basic concepts, and SOs getting mixed messages. Self denial and confusion reigns.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sobe1ove GG

What does everyone else think of this death issue? If someone doesn't feel that their male side accurately represents them and decides to take on a completely different female life, then how could they still, from the emotions of others, be the same person?

---

If Leah is indeed TS then you are looking at this from the wrong angle. "David" was never there, it was a carefully created mirage then looked convincing but was a falsehood. You would be mourning the loss of a ghost. If "David" is a CD then he has to come to find a balance between his male and female sides. CDs do tend to convince themselves that their female side is better and superior and reject their male side. It takes time to get over this feeling.

Quote:

---

For most of you, you have had decades to come to terms with your gender issues. It has taken a really long time to resolve your issues with yourself and what society thinks.

---

I have seen this quote several times before and for most of us CDs it is not true. We may have known we were CDs all our lives but few make any real progress coming to terms with it and resolving issues. For most CDs the first real progress has only been possible by coming to internet sites like this which have only been available for a very short period. Just because you turned up late for the race does not mean you have any disadvantage in resolving the CD enigma as most CDs are still fumbling with their starting blocks at the start line. You know as much about the subject as they do.

Quote:

---

But if there is care with the time frame that things happen, and if the SO/GG is willing to grow and accept and figure this out, then it could be seen as an obligation for the CDer to accommodate her.

---

Indeed, so long as there is a corresponding obligation for the SO to accommodate the CD's needs and be prepared to wait to see how the CD resolves their gender issues and grow and accept that. Patience and understanding are virtues on both sides of the equation. Are you prepared to stay and accommodate Leah needs?

If yes then there should be more than sufficient common ground to find a solution.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sobe1ove GG

I feel like if he was a full time lady, full time Leah B, he would no longer be David. David would be gone. He disagrees though saying that the same thoughts and feelings are still there. While I agree, thoughts and feelings aren't the only thing that makes someone special. If he looks different, acts different, identifies as a completely separate gender, has a different name, has a bit different interests (or added interests), then how could he possibly be David anymore?

While intellectually, I can see where he is coming from, that David is still there, I DON'T see it emotionally. In my heart, I would feel that he killed David. That Leah killed David. I have already been going through mourning already over this, so I can't even imagine how devastating it would be if he were to transition. I imagine that would be the case for his mom, other family members, and some friends as well.

Sobe

---

Sobe,
I for one can totally relate to this and do agree. The male self may be a ghost like Satrana said but it was what was presented and attracted us to the person in the first place. Now after a life together has been started all of a sudden the rules change? I don't buy the argument that they are the same person, it just isn't true. I think that it is human nature to resent Leah B when it is she that is keeping the love of your life away from you. She is killing every part of "HIM" and will not stop until you can't even recognize "HIM" any longer (at least that is how it feels). Essentially, Leah B is fighting to be the front runner. "SHE" doesn't care what you think because "SHE" wants to express herself. Essentially "SHE" is killing "HIM". This is just as unbalanced as being totally "HIM". To deny "HIM" to be "HER" is un-balanced and un-healthy IMO. "HE" is part of "SHE".

It may take a bit of un-balance to get to a place where "HE" and "She" are integrated and become a whole person with balance and perspective. When "SHE" took over my marriage I thought I was going to die. I can't describe the hell I went through. It was the only time in my life that I have EVER felt that I didn't care if I lived or died. It was the only time in my life that I couldn't figure out a clear plan for my life. I sat in my doctor's office begging for something to ease my pain, the tears would not stop falling as I sat there telling her that my husband thought he was a women trapped in a man's body. Did I resent "HER"? Hell yeah I did. I wanted "HER" the hell out of my house, my life, my memories. It was un-bearable (this is not an exaggeration). Some how I stayed, maybe because I could not figure out a plan.

I still feel resentment towards "HER" because she was too powerful and tried to kill "HIM". This is the problem with loosing perspective. Once the dammage is done it is hard to go back and mend. Not impossible but hard.

Leah B, I know that this is a powerful force and you want to explore but please try to step back and give yourself some reality checks before the dammage you do is too great. Don't be so impatient with Sobe or with yourself. My hubby found that he is not a women trapped in a man's body. He likes being a man. We are trying to take baby steps in our relationship now but I still feel so damaged by his whole gender identity confusion. My wounds are still not healed and it has been 3 years.

:hugs::hugs::hugs: To the both of you. I have empathy for the both of you and what you are going through. :love: Kitty

I agree with Satrana about the "death issue". You can't really kill something that was never there to begin with. I know because that is how it was for me. My guy self was a carefully constructed and camoflaged persona to hide the real me so I could do what was "required" as a man, a husband and a father. I did have obligations after all. The real me goes much deeper than merely fulfilling a role for society and this is why it has become a spiritual issue for myself.
My deep feelings and love for my family cannot really be defined in terms of gender but I have used the crossdressing as a vehicle to help express my real feelings. I was brought up in a world in the 50's and 60's where there was no middle ground and expressing any softer feelings was a sign of weakness for a boy. This seriously conflicted me, so my feelings and my dressing went into the closet but couldn't stay there forever. I've accepted myself now but that does not mean I don't feel that I haven't let my family down by doing what I have done. Those feelings never go away. To dwell on them though is counter productive and really a waste of energy.
There is no easy answer. I made the decision to be myself no matter what and that decision has cost me my family, a decision I regret very much. What I have learned , especially since being here, is not to shut people out and talk, discuss and compromise if necessary. How do we know how anyone feels unless we ask? I don't think anyone is asking anyone else to instantly accept things. Hell, it's taken most of us decades to accept this in ourselves. Being honest with one another and having faith in one another is the key. Something I learned far too late.
It's obvious that you care about your SO very much or else you wouldn't be asking the questions. I wish you both well and hope things work out.

:2c: Ok this my view, subjective, personal and not intended to disrespect anyone.

Here goes, 1st I dislike pink, can't stand the colour, blue, purple, red, black and white in all shades yes, but pink no-way, whatever mode I'm in.

2nd, I like sport, I've play footie (soccer) rugby, badminton, hockey (grass) and squash. I watch footie, rugby and motorsports. I love going down the pub with my mates, playing pool, darts and going bowling (ten pin). I enjoy being a bloke.

3rd My Nan, mother and sister where/are strong woman (weaver, factory worker, Lawyer), my Grandfather, dad and step-dad where/are strong men (Foundery worker, boxer, factory woker) all from a strong working class background. For myself I've worked on building site, in factories and the health service.

So why do I do it? Depression, escapism, sexual fetish, cus I like it? They have all played are part, but for me to put a finger on a definate answer, it would easier for to walk to the moon and back.

I have been open and honest with my new SO, and with every good relationship there has to be compromise. If she needs me to be masculine then I am, but she can also read the signs (better then myself sometimes) as to when I need to dress, and she lets me.

Being narcissistic in a relationship will eventually destory that relationship, and compromise has be from bothsides. It is irresponsible, for someone to say 'I'm a crossdresser, so deal with it' to someone we love when we spend so much of ours lives trying to deal with crossdressing ourselves to find a place where we are happy or at least at peace with ourslves.

Communication is our greatess gift, yet so many of do not use it.

I am me, at peace and willing to talk. :2c: :happy:

One heck of a thread! Very, very interesting and informative. I just have to comment on the latest death aspects.

Another great GG here and I were discussing change and our conclusion is that coming out, finding out, your male partner is TG (CD-TS; pick anywhere in between) changes both the SO and the CD. "I'm still the same person" argument does not hold water. The SO is stunned, confused, watching for signals and clues as to how the relationship will proceed from here. The CD is typically the kid in the candy store and goes nuts in varying degrees. Obsessing, thoroughly enjoying himself, shopping, learning beauty tricks, on ad nauseum - exploring his femme side. Behaviors have changed. The dynamic of the relationship that was is gone - dead - and a new one has to be built (or not).

Denying that the femme personna "kills" the male personna because the male never really existed is bunk as well. Pat yourselves on the back, you did a great job of creating and selling this guy to everyone. We bought it and many of us love it. Take responsibility for your creation and it's effect on those around you. I've only been able to say the words twice, and never without choking up, but Darlene scares me because she has the power to take something away from me that is very precious and I am powerless to do anything to stop it. Call it control issues, call it unfounded fear, call it lack of trust or faith - whatever you want. Doesn't change the fact that she can take my husband. Even if I participate and support and accept - I can still lose my most intimate friend. Doesn't matter if "he" never existed to himself, he existed to me.

I certainly believe there are persons out there that are adult, reasonable, rational and compassionate. They take their wives by the hand and gently lead them into their TG mind and lives and it is wonderful, loving and peaceful. But too many are not that emotionally mature (myself included). Or conversely, the wife takes the CD by the hand and reassures, loves and they walk the path together. But too often it goes more like:

Look at this! Let's bounce on the furniture in our excitement - oops, kicked you in the gut - but isn't this fun - oops, kicked you in the face - oops, watch out for that flying lamp, sorry.........hey, why are you mad? Why can't you be supportive? You're not giving me what I want. This was here all along, you know it was. Look what I did to you, she would never do that. Woo hoo, look how high I can jump.

Makes my head spin. A business associate once said to me that they work under the philosophy that if you try to shove something down someone's throat, they usually spit it back out at you. But if you serve it up and allow them to partake on their own, they can take ownership of their involvement and support wholeheartedly.

There is absolutely death of relationship and the person you knew - and death of person the SO is. Everything & everyone is changed. The supposedly learned in CD/TG issues publish that a wife's acceptance cycle is very similar to the grieving cycles. Coincidence? I don't think so.

It definititely takes time and if I understand you correctly in that he has discovered his fem side less than a year ago, then I'd question his thoughts on the subject as well. How can one make a decision on a lifelong issue such as this in less than a year. He definiately could benefit from counseling IMHO.

If death to David ends up his option, then you more than likely are in love with a transsexual rather than a mere crossdresser.

In my experience with my fem side. It comes and goes, when the opportunity, the figure, the time all worked out to present the girl of my dreams, then it stayed a while but eventually my maleness would take over and the girl would be closeted until who knows when.

Perhaps he needs just some time. If possible, let him be in-fem for a two week period, no maleness whatsoever, and go from there.......

Good luck.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sobe1ove GG

Hey everyone! These have been really thoughtful posts! I appreciate everyone taking the time to respond to my questions. As luck would have it, I have two more.

- Since my boyfriend is considering whether or not he is transsexual, this has brought up questions as well for me. I said to him that I was mad that he seems so nonchalant about essentially killing his male self. Let's say his name is David so that you can understand what I'm saying.

I feel like if he was a full time lady, full time Leah B, he would no longer be David. David would be gone. He disagrees though saying that the same thoughts and feelings are still there. While I agree, thoughts and feelings aren't the only thing that makes someone special. If he looks different, acts different, identifies as a completely separate gender, has a different name, has a bit different interests (or added interests), then how could he possibly be David anymore?

While intellectually, I can see where he is coming from, that David is still there, I DON'T see it emotionally. In my heart, I would feel that he killed David. That Leah killed David. I have already been going through mourning already over this, so I can't even imagine how devastating it would be if he were to transition. I imagine that would be the case for his mom, other family members, and some friends as well.

What does everyone else think of this death issue? If someone doesn't feel that their male side accurately represents them and decides to take on a completely different female life, then how could they still, from the emotions of others, be the same person?

- I was thinking a lot about how some people were saying that the CDer shouldn't have to compromise in the slightest. Of course I disagreed with that, but it took me a few days to really cement in my head why I felt that way.

For most of you, you have had decades to come to terms with your gender issues. It has taken a really long time to resolve your issues with yourself and what society thinks. For some of you, you still don't fully accept yourselves.

So then how are we, as partners of trans folk (CD included), supposed to accept it so easily? We have much of the same hang ups as you as far as 'what society thinks.' We also have to resolve our own issues with gender when presented with an issue like this. Essentially, we need the whole process as well.

Unfortunately, we are often expected to accept things and get over our problems and fears at light speed. This can, obviously, be a problem. We need time to understand what's going on and accept it. If our T-lover doesn't want to go at a reasonable pace so that we too can come to terms, this often causes a rift. We can't be forced to accept things so fast. You all have had decades to deal with this and we are only given a short amount of time. To take my relationship as an example, I've known in general for a year and only really started doing anything in less than six months ago. Is six months really enough time to resolve issues over gender and the identifying gender of our spouse or boyfriend when it took him over 25 years to accept it for himself (and still has years to go)?

I don't think so.

But if there is care with the time frame that things happen, and if the SO/GG is willing to grow and accept and figure this out, then it could be seen as an obligation for the CDer to accommodate her.

What does everyone think of this?

Sobe

::EDIT:: I also wanted to clarify my original post. I mentioned the 1950s. I didn't mean to say that fifties fashion is bad for anyone. I LOVE it in fact. Check out daddyos.com for my clothing wishlist. I want everything! What I meant was the 1950s attitude. Women are supposed to wear dresses and stay at home and cook and clean and so forth. It seems like some CDers are stuck in that mentality. That's what I meant.

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tree GG

Another great GG here and I were discussing change and our conclusion is that coming out, finding out, your male partner is TG (CD-TS; pick anywhere in between) changes both the SO and the CD. "I'm still the same person" argument does not hold water. The SO is stunned, confused, watching for signals and clues as to how the relationship will proceed from here. The CD is typically the kid in the candy store and goes nuts in varying degrees. Obsessing, thoroughly enjoying himself, shopping, learning beauty tricks, on ad nauseum - exploring his femme side. Behaviors have changed. The dynamic of the relationship that was is gone - dead - and a new one has to be built (or not).

Denying that the femme personna "kills" the male personna because the male never really existed is bunk as well. Pat yourselves on the back, you did a great job of creating and selling this guy to everyone. We bought it and many of us love it. Take responsibility for your creation and it's effect on those around you. I've only been able to say the words twice, and never without choking up, but Darlene scares me because she has the power to take something away from me that is very precious and I am powerless to do anything to stop it. Call it control issues, call it unfounded fear, call it lack of trust or faith - whatever you want. Doesn't change the fact that she can take my husband. Even if I participate and support and accept - I can still lose my most intimate friend. Doesn't matter if "he" never existed to himself, he existed to me.

---

*Whew* ~ great post/thread and it's taken me days to read and process many of the comments...beautiful and painful.

Tree GG ~ as always you seem to "cherry pick" the thoughts right out of my head and give voice to my emotions.

With Nicole being transgendered ~ I've been though several of the grieving stages already. I *think* I'm finally at acceptance, somewhat reluctantly mind you...but I just want my spouse to "pick a side" so we can get on with our lives. It's the in-between and indecision that's killing me. Although I'm not going to *actually* rush her process. That would be rash and hasty & might give incorrect, premature answers.

This is our support network so i do not wish to hurt or offend anyone this is from my perspective

killing his male self

Quote:

---

I feel like if he was a full time lady, full time Leah B, he would no longer be David. David would be gone. He disagrees though saying that the same thoughts and feelings are still there. While I agree, thoughts and feelings aren't the only thing that makes someone special. If he looks different, acts different, identifies as a completely separate gender, has a different name, has a bit different interests (or added interests), then how could he possibly be David anymore?

---

David and Leah b .. are the same feel the same think the same .. we have to act different because thats the way the world see us , David does the guy thing when in guy mode because thats what we are suppose to do ..
David can't show Leah's feelings when in male mode ... he can't sit down with the girls and enjoy a girl talk as a guy ..
Leah b. can be free to smile talk enjoy the comforts of womanhood show her true feelings be her true self .. but she is still David

as for me i am the same i still love all the things i did as PAUL .. but i am now free to enjoy the feminine thing as a guy i was not i feel i am still Paul just can't have a male name when i look like this

Quote:

---

While intellectually, I can see where he is coming from, that David is still there, I DON'T see it emotionally. In my heart, I would feel that he killed David. That Leah killed David. I have already been going through mourning already over this, so I can't even imagine how devastating it would be if he were to transition. I imagine that would be the case for his mom, other family members, and some friends as well.

---

oh sobe he is not dead he is right there ... my god we are saying to our family friends n lovers look i am hurting i want to be the real me. gender issues are not catching and they are not fatal ..... it's only the one's we love that bury us alive because they don't understand us

What does everyone else think of this death issue? If someone doesn't feel that their male side accurately represents them and decides to take on a completely different female life, then how could they still, from the emotions of others, be the same person?

completely different female life, how so ??? nothing about Me change except my looks thats all.. i still have the same passions and interests as before i can be open now

Quote:

---

I was thinking a lot about how some people were saying that the CDer shouldn't have to compromise in the slightest. Of course I disagreed with that, but it took me a few days to really cement in my head why I felt that way.
For most of you, you have had decades to come to terms with your gender issues. It has taken a really long time to resolve your issues with yourself and what society thinks. For some of you, you still don't fully accept yourselves.

---

you are so right

So then how are we, as partners of trans folk (CD included), supposed to accept it so easily? We have much of the same hang ups as you as far as 'what society thinks.' We also have to resolve our own issues with gender when presented with an issue like this. Essentially, we need the whole process as well.

i can see were you are coming from so can i ask you sobe do you feel that you are becoming a lesbian and you are ashamed people will find out ?

Quote:

---

Unfortunately, we are often expected to accept things and get over our problems and fears at light speed. This can, obviously, be a problem. We need time to understand what's going on and accept it. If our T-lover doesn't want to go at a reasonable pace so that we too can come to terms, this often causes a rift. We can't be forced to accept things so fast. You all have had decades to deal with this and we are only given a short amount of time. To take my relationship as an example, I've known in general for a year and only really started doing anything in less than six months ago. Is six months really enough time to resolve issues over gender and the identifying gender of our spouse or boyfriend when it took him over 25 years to accept it for himself (and still has years to go)?

---

i can understand that if you met Leah first what would you have done ?

Quote:

---

But if there is care with the time frame that things happen, and if the SO/GG is willing to grow and accept and figure this out, then it could be seen as an obligation for the CDer to accommodate her.

What does everyone think of this?

---

can i be honest and please don't kill the messenger .. with time and care the so.gg could accept .. but the issue is you gg are not "gay" . and now you have an unexpected other woman to deal with this is a problem how do you deal with it, if your man is a humble cd'r thats one thing BUT if he in fact wants to become a woman and you stay in the relationship what does it make you !! welcome to our demons " guilt shame fear " life is not easy this just makes it harder .. funny how how our family , friends , lovers chose to bury us alive how cruel uncaring is that

i ask before.. if you saw Leah first would you still date her ? . we as cd'r /trans also are guilty of not being upfront with our gg .. 99&#37; of the problems are due to us lying to our woman in the first place ..

but just as a new ts start her transition her new circle of life why not learn together we don't have 25 years to Wait while you catch up

again please i respect and love you all , i don't mean to offend this is just my take on a very sensitive subject .. in the pursuit of understanding and respect

hugs marissa
Whew* ~ great post/thread and it's taken me days to read and process many of the comments...beautiful and painful. as moonbaby said thank you sobe wonderful thread

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by MJ

i ask before.. if you saw Leah first would you still date her ? .

---

Nope. Which says a lot about how I need to to adjust and sort out my feelings on the subject.

Tree GG explained this very well. Her feelings are my feelings. So, my response to the parts where you said that his male side is still there, read her post.

I don't say any of the following lightly!!!

I've been watching this thread with great interest! It certainly has inspired some in-depth, passionate responses! I responded, separately, to both Sobe and Leah a few pages ago. Since then, as more and more opinions and commentaries have been posted, I have been wondering if Sobe has really pondered her journey from when she first came to this forum and where she is today?!! IMO, where Sobe was and where she now is, vis-a-vis where Leah was and is, may hold the ultimate answers Sobe is seeking!!!

Back in April, Sobe posted:

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sobe1ove GG

I am a GG whose boyfriend came out as a crossdresser pretty recently. Needless to say, I'm having a really hard time with it. One problem I have is that now we aren't just a couple anymore. We are a crossdressing couple. I hate that we have to be defined that way. Can't we just be the two of us? It also makes me feel like he is now more important in the relationship than I am. It's all about him and his crossdressing.

---

Note that even back then Sobe was aware that (a.) it is "all about him and his crossdressing," and (b.) (his crossdressing) made her feel like his desires were more important than her in their relationship! Since that post back in April, it seems, too, that it is more than just crossdressing, but is questionably hovering on the question of whether Leah is a mtf heterosexual crossdresser or is transsexual, or what???

As I recall, back in April, Sobe was given a great deal of advice based on "where" she and Leah were at that point in time -- centering on communicate, educate, compromise!!! That said, even then -- and especially now, given what Leah has said -- the picture has changed. Even by Leah's own words, the picture is that it is all about him and the importance of what he wants!!! Leah doesn't seem to be able, or want, to step back and move at a pace that accounts for the adjustments Sobe needs time to make -- if she can make them at all!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kittypw GG

I think that it is human nature to resent Leah B when it is she that is keeping the love of your life away from you . . . This is . . . unbalanced . . .

---

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by kittypw GG

Does Sobe have to deny herself everyday of the week?????? Does Leah B get full rein of everything just because he is confused and can't see past his own desire's to see things clearly???

Sorry don't buy this argument. It is a two way street. I want to live my life the way I want to also but I gave up some of that control when I got married. THAT IS JUST LIFE!!! Kitty

---

Kitty, I completely understand where you are coming from; it seems to me, based on what Leah has said (and what else can we go on but that), that there is no compromising in their relationship -- at least not from Leah's side!!! The relationship is totally unballanced!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tree GG

Another great GG here and I were discussing change and our conclusion is that coming out, finding out, your male partner is TG (CD-TS; pick anywhere in between) changes both the SO and the CD. "I'm still the same person" argument does not hold water.

---

Clearly many of us have empathy for Sobe and Leah's situation!!! Likewise, Leah isn't the same person she was back in April!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sharon

I hardly represent every transsexual out there, but I am very happy with the choices I have made -- happy for the first time in my life to be perfectly honest.

---

At the end of the day this is where Sobe and Leah need to be -- happy with the choices they each have made!!! If they can work it out, then so much to their credit!!! Do I see that happening??? Not the way things seem to be going!!! As the song says, "breaking up is hard to do." But, there comes a time when you've got fish or cut bait. Sobe's ability to love unconditionally can only take so much draining -- and things won't get any better if Leah refuses to meet her half way. Sorry if this seems blunt, but it is just my opinion of where I see the relationship!!!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tree GG

Look at this! Let's bounce on the furniture in our excitement - oops, kicked you in the gut - but isn't this fun - oops, kicked you in the face - oops, watch out for that flying lamp, sorry.........hey, why are you mad? Why can't you be supportive? You're not giving me what I want. This was here all along, you know it was. Look what I did to you, she would never do that. Woo hoo, look how high I can jump.

---

~laughs~ Very apt description. Barbara is a very silly girl.

I liked the rest of what you had to say also. A little twist on your causation on the apparent death of the male persona, versus the CD's perception that he/she was always this way on the inside.

A CD in the closet is a completely different species than the very same CD, when they see the light of day. This, I think is more responsible for the perceived difference than the fact that now the SO knows she just can't look past the make-up and wig.

My dear GG, makes a real effort to see me as the pretty girl I like to slip into. She appreciates more than anything the radiant if needy smile that is Barbara's alone. My male side never smiles with such open vulnerability. Still she sees the man she married on the inside.

Crossdressing in the closet was never anything that made me personally happy or gave me any peace. It was silly, weird, and embarrassing to me. I never dressed fully, never thought to. Barbara is a brand new creation out of whole cloth only really 3-4 months old with maybe 2 months gestation before that. Barbara not only is different than my male self, she is different than my male self wearing clothes in a locked bathroom. The one has very little to do with the other besides providing the questions in my mind that led me to want to dress-up as Barbara. It isnt just that my femme side is revealed. It is that my femme side blossomed into being with the addition of sunshine. Maybe others grew over time like a carefully tended private banzai instead of like a milkweed.

The Barbara you all have met here is softer and more measured in her responses than my male side has ever been. We absolutely laugh at some sweet compliments I have gotten as Barbara that would never have applied to my argumentative, defensive male persona.

I speculate that Barbara is just who I would have been not gender wise but personality wise, if better more nurturing parents had provided the safety and security for the sweet 4 year old boy I was to have grown into a sweet man.

As an example, Dee has recently lost 40 lbs in just 3 months. I am seeing the version of her that is more in line with what is in my mind when I think of her in her absence, but she always looked like her to me. She has been getting beautiful compliments out of the mouths of babes at school where she does part time and teaching kids in church. She is dressing in clothes that fit, instead of tents that hide, is perched on cute heels (woohoo!) and is more inclined to pick race car red lipstick. She is happier and it shows.

She is different..or maybe just returning to an earlier self.

The key as I see it is for each person who will inevitably change, steers themselves towards their better self. Obviously we each only get to steer with one oar in the water.

i ask before.. if you saw Leah first would you still date her ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by sobe1ove GG

Quote:

---

Nope. Which says a lot about how I need to to adjust and sort out my feelings on the subject.

---

Tree GG explained this very well. Her feelings are my feelings. So, my response to the parts where you said that his male side is still there, read her post.

---

no you don't.. thats like if my wife wanted to become a man would i still date "him "
sobe this is a very hard subject ..:love:

when the thought of the *man* part dying it really brought up some deep feelings for me. It;s not as if either one of the partners tried to make this happen but I feel it really does happen for many of us.


I started out with what I call a regular CDer. One who dresses for pleasure and then seems happy in his old male self. As the journey continues however that male self is not as prominent. Now that male self is really not there much any more. carin has reached a point of self discovery of who she is and is confortable and proud of who she is. She describes it as on the female side of androgony. It is not as if she decieved me. She is still the same person I married only now she and I both know who that person really is. Neither one of us knew when we were 20 and 26 almost 24 years ago.

If she compromises in order to please me she is compromising herself. As a loving partner how could I ask her to do this? She is very happy to be with me, I am the one asking for some compromises. I am so glad that the kids (only two left!) are now in the loop because she also has that freedom and support.

I don't know what the futire holds for us. I know we love each other in a very profound way. Will it be enough? I don't know.



Louise.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tree GG

One heck of a thread! Very, very interesting and informative. I just have to comment on the latest death aspects.

Another great GG here and I were discussing change and our conclusion is that coming out, finding out, your male partner is TG (CD-TS; pick anywhere in between) changes both the SO and the CD. "I'm still the same person" argument does not hold water. The SO is stunned, confused, watching for signals and clues as to how the relationship will proceed from here. The CD is typically the kid in the candy store and goes nuts in varying degrees. Obsessing, thoroughly enjoying himself, shopping, learning beauty tricks, on ad nauseum - exploring his femme side. Behaviors have changed. The dynamic of the relationship that was is gone - dead - and a new one has to be built (or not).

Denying that the femme personna "kills" the male personna because the male never really existed is bunk as well. Pat yourselves on the back, you did a great job of creating and selling this guy to everyone. We bought it and many of us love it. Take responsibility for your creation and it's effect on those around you. I've only been able to say the words twice, and never without choking up, but Darlene scares me because she has the power to take something away from me that is very precious and I am powerless to do anything to stop it. Call it control issues, call it unfounded fear, call it lack of trust or faith - whatever you want. Doesn't change the fact that she can take my husband. Even if I participate and support and accept - I can still lose my most intimate friend. Doesn't matter if "he" never existed to himself, he existed to me.

I certainly believe there are persons out there that are adult, reasonable, rational and compassionate. They take their wives by the hand and gently lead them into their TG mind and lives and it is wonderful, loving and peaceful. But too many are not that emotionally mature (myself included). Or conversely, the wife takes the CD by the hand and reassures, loves and they walk the path together. But too often it goes more like:

Look at this! Let's bounce on the furniture in our excitement - oops, kicked you in the gut - but isn't this fun - oops, kicked you in the face - oops, watch out for that flying lamp, sorry.........hey, why are you mad? Why can't you be supportive? You're not giving me what I want. This was here all along, you know it was. Look what I did to you, she would never do that. Woo hoo, look how high I can jump.

Makes my head spin. A business associate once said to me that they work under the philosophy that if you try to shove something down someone's throat, they usually spit it back out at you. But if you serve it up and allow them to partake on their own, they can take ownership of their involvement and support wholeheartedly.

There is absolutely death of relationship and the person you knew - and death of person the SO is. Everything & everyone is changed. The supposedly learned in CD/TG issues publish that a wife's acceptance cycle is very similar to the grieving cycles. Coincidence? I don't think so.

---

Everything that TreeGG has said here, i agree with 150%

But.....it doesn't have to be this way, it only is, because the CD<s> obsess in it. They run them into the ground, and go crazy with it. The sensation dressing, and feeling things that has been forbidden for so long, feels liberating, to say the least, It may be more so for the male CD, i say this only because it is forbidden for one, and woman have so much nicer items to ware that make them feel so pretty, men just don't have those items they can ware. But this is still no excuse for going crazy with it, if one does, they start thinking... hey i am a tranny, im a woman, no matter how much you feel the females emotions, femininity, the fact is you will never be a woman, not even after SRS will you be one. Yes you can feel what they do, but thats only because everyone can, regardless of gender. Saying that, i know fully i can never be one, it all boils down to what is it that makes us want to take simple feelings and emotions, and turn yourself into a woman?? or try to. The only thing i can say to answer this for myself is, it feels good, it feels right, i connect to this easily, yes its a part of me, but only because everything i can passably feel, is a part of me, as it is a part of everyone alive on this planet. Ever since i was a small boy, i felt these feelings, as if it was in my past, it was felt so easily, and naturally, BUT, that is not the now, i am a man now, it still doesn't stop me from being able to feel these things. It takes discipline, to not go crazy with it, it takes feeling the male side and loving it as well, the ones that don't and go head over heals for the dressing, for some reason do not like the sex they were born, and if they dont dear GG's, there is really only 2 options for you to take. That is accept them this way, have a lesbian relationship, watch the man you loved change into a transsexual, there male parts slowly shriveling up and not function anymore, be with them threw SRS, and live with them as what they have became. Or, leave them, let them be what they will be, move on and find a new life, with someone else. This is about all i can say or think what the choices are. Realistically, yes they do kill the man you loved, i cant even imagine <and i have a great imagination> what living threw this would be like, it has to be so hard and painful, im so sorry that GG out there have to go threw this. There are some CD's out there, I for one, that will NEVER kill the male side of myself, when i am me, i love all aspects of being a man, more so i think because of the dressing, because of the duel sides of the coin maybe. Talk to them about WHY they want to TROW away the male side they were born to be!! Understanding this better may make it easier to make the decision you are faced with now.

Quote:

---

Unfortunately, we are often expected to accept things and get over our problems and fears at light speed. This can, obviously, be a problem. We need time to understand what's going on and accept it. If our T-lover doesn't want to go at a reasonable pace so that we too can come to terms, this often causes a rift. We can't be forced to accept things so fast. You all have had decades to deal with this and we are only given a short amount of time. To take my relationship as an example, I've known in general for a year and only really started doing anything in less than six months ago. Is six months really enough time to resolve issues over gender and the identifying gender of our spouse or boyfriend when it took him over 25 years to accept it for himself (and still has years to go)?

I don't think so.

But if there is care with the time frame that things happen, and if the SO/GG is willing to grow and accept and figure this out, then it could be seen as an obligation for the CDer to accommodate her.

What does everyone think of this?

---

Sobe, i need to ask you about this...

Do you think it would be easier, for you to accept haveing a transexual woman, for a mate, if it took 15 years to become? would being with her be easier in the end having it take longer to happen? The end result would still be the same. The only compramize i can see a CD has to make, is in not throwing away there gender they were born, but to dress now and then, and be a man for there heterosexual wives more. Sure they can get better at being a CD, feel more and more like a woman as they dress, go out with you, shop together, have fun with it, but take it all of, give himself a shake, and be a man again, this is easy for me, it only takes loving being a man. Some situations i think, there are factors involed with there past, that makes them forget how good being one can be, like the incredible strength and completeness, you get in the arms of the woman that loves you so unconditionally, to name only one. There are meny more.

I want to say one thing, and its not meant to be picked apart either, cut or pasted and have my views belittled by anyone that feels threatened by what i say. I say it just in case there is a young CD out there, one that is searching to know or understand, if only one person reads it connects to it, and it helps them, for some reason. i feel i need to say it here.....

You all probably know by now i have a spiritual faith, i believe in energy, that everything has a aura, a energy field, I am a certified level 2 Reiki healer... Our energy bodies, aura, Chi, Prana, ect is directly connected to our physical body. There are many that know of this, and can do extraordinary feats by manipulating there energy, this also can show proof that the human energy field is real. This aura or Chi, is also connected to sexual organs in the body, Going threw these CD changes messing with hormone level, going threw SRS, ect will have an effect on your aura, each section of the aura is connected to each other, and playing with this will, mess things up, the result will show up in your feelings, emotions, and centering, like you may feel signs of depression, feeling of being alone, not connected to others, mood swings, and a bunch of others. Just something to think about, before you throw out a perfectly good body, not only the effects on the aura, but also your health, flooding a males body with hormone that its not ment to have, blocking the ones it is meant to have, will not be healthy, do you really want to go threw this, when you can totaly have it all?? the only thing that you have to do is love both sides of the coin!! thats all.. Thats all your loving SO wants really, to not watch you slowly kill yourself. Balance yourselves, Feel male, and female, equally, you may have to force feeling male side, because its feels normal, and not exciteing, but you have the ability to feel everything, even the male side, all you have to do is focus, and strengthen it, enjoy it as well, just decide you want more, than to just be a one sided coin, weather it is a female side or a male side, YOU CAN have BOTH. (((((again this is not meant to be picked appart, by someone that is going threw this, and feels threatened or defensive about it, its meant for those that are in question)))))